Boycott Openvape

[tepictoton]

Hmmm,

I totally agree with the first part, but after: it's called being...you totally loose me I am afraid.

It might even be considered a bit insulting I am sorry if I am trying to think for myself, and am trying to be an adult...if you really feel like you need any kind of 'man' to tell you what is good for you and what not then that is fine, but I will gladly pass on that one...either we will all be 'the (wo)man', or none of us is.

Please do not believe the bullshit they are trying to tell you...you really think we would bash each others head in without our so-called 'leaders'? They have been 'leading' our children into war for centuries, nothing more, nothing less. My grandparents fought in both world wars and I am sure they are turning themselves in their graves every day when they see what is going on down here and what they risked their lives for...

But euhm, we where talking about a company testing their employees, and again, i completely agree with you when you say that is also the employees choice to undergo such tests...but you will understand that this is a bullshit argument when they decide to make these (unreliable) tests mandatory everywhere...will you then still think this is in any way a kind of freedom?

 

[Caligula]

Well, I wasnt replying to anything you said specifically, but since were here...

Please do not believe the bullshit they are trying to tell you...you really think we would bash each others head in without our so-called 'leaders?

Not right off the bat (pun intended), no. However it probably wouldn't take long.

It's not too hard to open a text book (just kidding, Google) to see how mankind lived before social organization and centralized governments came into play. Not exactly the grand utopian future we would all like to see. Not by a long shot. And there are some very good reasons for this, most notably Human nature.

Besides, what exactly do you think would happen if every government, military organization, and police force disappeared overnight?

Do you honestly believe that "they" are wrong and people wouldn't fight over whats theirs, what they perceive is theirs, or what they want as theirs? Do you have any idea what the demand for resources like clean water and fertile land would be is in most parts of the world, especially with the global population being what it is?

Regardless of the outcome, I highly doubt it would end with everyone coming together in some perfect global communist society.

...Im also pretty sure that getting rid of "the man" wont get rid of bigotry, racism, xenophobia, or jealousy.

...but you will understand that this is a bullshit argument when they decide to make these (unreliable) tests mandatory everywhere...will you then still think this is in any way a kind of freedom?

This is the second time you mentioned "they". Who are "they" exactly and what do you mean "mandatory everywhere"? Also by what measure are you judging every type of drug testing "unreliable"?

In summary I want to remind everyone that the concept of government came out of necessity, not some evil guy trying to figure out how to take over the known world.

 

[lwien]

Please do not believe the bullshit they are trying to tell you...you really think we would bash each others head in without our so-called 'leaders'?

Absofuckinglutely !!

But again, having leaders and followers is part of our DNA since the dawn of our existence.

 

[Jared]

Absofuckinglutely !!

But again, having leaders and followers is part of our DNA since the dawn of our existence.

So you really think regular people would just go crazy and start bashing each others heads in? I sure don't. What I think would happen is absolutely nothing. Our police as it stands literally have no obligation to protect us, and in many cases choose not to, especially in bigger cities. Our military does nothing but invade other countries for oil and drugs. Our government does nothing but take our money and imprison us. Our doctors are paid to prescribe pills to children that they do not need and become dependent on. I don't think things would be a whole lot worse without government.

Edit: Back on topic, I think what open vape is doing is fine honestly. Weed is the only safe "drug" i know of. I don't know too many people who use heroine, crack, cocaine, pain pills, etc just once in a while.

 

[lwien]

Our military does nothing but invade other countries for oil and drugs. Our government does nothing but take our money and imprison us.

To say that our military and government do "nothing" but what you mentioned is totally inaccurate.

 

[arf777]

We will ALWAYS need those things. You're utopian world never existed and never will. Our DNA REQUIRES these things. Our intellect will hopefully keep the checks and balances in control.

Armageddon, the end of the world or the end of our society or the end of our way of life or the end of our freedom has been a battle cry since the beginning of time, and I have no doubt that they will continue, for the most part, totally unwarranted.

To anyone who has been following the Supreme Court, it is obvious our "way of life" (in the US) has altered radically, and in less than a year at that. A year ago, we had an effective Voting Rights Act that had been the law for over 40 years; now we do not. A year ago, we had aggregate limits on direct political donations by the wealthy; now we do not/ A year ago, the police could not lie to a housemate of yours to get them to allow a warrantless search after you already told them to come back when they had a warrant; now they can. A year ago, an anonymous 911 tip that you may have been driving erratically was not grounds for a car stop of any kind, unless a police officer actually saw you driving erratically; now they can do so (even Scalia dissented on that one). A year ago, the "scent of pot" and "the sound of a flushing toilet" were not grounds for a warrantless search when the person being searched for was not wanted for anything related to pot; now that is fine.

And I can tell you, as an expert in Federal law, a positive urinalysis is NOT evidence of intoxication and therefore does not relate to liability, at least in the Federal courts (though it can be used to speak to character in general). There may be some states where that could be used as proof of intoxication in litigation, but not in Federal court (where the hypothetical trucking case would likely end up - most interstate shipping accidents end up in US District Court).

As others have pointed out, the more "dangerous" drugs (I use quotes because none kill as many people as alcohol and tobacco, which I am sure these people are not testing for) tend to leave the body in 24-48 hours. Also, many junkies have a source for clean piss - I used to have a source myself when I had to deal with testing for herb. Wasn't hard to get.

I am a bit surprised by the lack of sympathy for users of banned substances other than cannabis here. It is nobody's business if I 'shroom occasionally, nor does it have any impact on my work performance. And many, many, many heroin and cocaine users have full-time jobs and are functional human beings, endangering nobody. Half the attorneys I know use cocaine, and they are all either government or big-firm lawyers. The most brilliant philosophy professor I ever had, a Wittgenstein scholar of some note, was an open heroin user.

If this were really about liability, there'd be an alcohol breathalyzer at the factory door and attached to all the ignition keys on trucks (a technology that has existed for years). And one can run a blood test for actual intoxicant levels of heroin, cocaine, etc. But, at least for now, an employer in the US cannot make you submit to a blood test. With this Supreme Court, though, that could change.

 

[lwien]

And many, many, many heroin and cocaine users have full-time jobs and are functional human beings, endangering nobody.

When those users become addicts is when the real issues begin and the danger that they not only inflict on themselves, but the danger that they inflict on family, friends and just about everyone else they come in contact with can be devastating.

 

[Jared]

I am a bit surprised by the lack of sympathy for users of banned substances other than cannabis here. It is nobody's business if I 'shroom occasionally, nor does it have any impact on my work performance.

I don't know of anyone who considers mushrooms "hard drugs", and unless the company is specifically testing for mushrooms it usually isn't tested for.

I think the lack of sympathy comes from the knowledge that those other drugs are so easy for ANYONE to become addicted to, and how absolutely screwed they are if they do become addicted. I realize it's not my or anyone else's business what someone does in the privacy of their own home, but I'm definitely not going to be mad at a company that wants to drugs test for addictive hard drugs, and I definitely won't feel sympathy for the people doing them.

 

[Caligula]

Pretty sure my car radio wasnt stolen so someone could buy a bag of weed...

 

[MinnBobber]

I think it depends on the job and the potential (negative) impact of drugs.

-If I order a burger at a fast food restaurant, do I care if the clerk is on hard drugs?
Not really. Impact--they may mess up my order but no big deal.

- "From what I've read of this on the twitter feed it appears openvape operates labs and various lab equipment, likely extractors, that have the potential to be deadly. " quote from outoken.
If I'm an openvape employee working on equipment that can blow up and kill me, do I care what my
fellow employees are using?? You bet!! If the guy next to me is a methhead, test and if positive for hard drugs, get them treatment and then fire if still not clean.

 

[mestizo]

Blablabla...?

Let me quote Doug Stanhope for you:
It is my body and I put into it what I want. Don't like it, fine, klik klik bang...Let's start the argument where it starts...

The thing is, most everything we do, or we put on our body affects others, sometimes directly, other times indirectly. You won't get away with it if a cop pulls you over for not wearing a helmet, or seat belt, if you tell him it is your body and you decide what to put on it, because if you get injured somebody is going to foot your medical bill, it's going to be either you, your insurance company, or society, and that in turn will raise health or insurance rates for everybody. Heck, I'm not even allowed to paint my house any color I want, because it may lower home values for everybody in my neighborhood.
The only way to keep big brother away is to have your own island, with your own roads, hospitals, schools, government, etc. See, we all share this things in a society, so chances are your actions will affect others around you.
And I'm with Caligula on this one, "A bad government is better than anarchy" I hope that is what he meant.

 

[Caligula]

I do suppose that depends on your definition of "bad", but suffice to say some form of government is a necessary evil once you get enough Humans in once place.

 

[mestizo]

I do suppose that depends on your definition of "bad", but suffice to say some form of government is a necessary evil once you get enough Humans in once place.

Yes, when I think of government, order comes to mind, along with a constitution, and law enforcement, a bad government will ignore it, and allow some crimes to be committed too, but you will know your enemy's face, and defend yourself or flee from it. In anarchy you have disorder, and lawlessness, and is hard to put a face on your enemy. Of course, there's more to it.

 

[Mrmrmrmr]

I believe structure (government in this case) is certainly needed to avoid chaos. Like Caligula and a few others have said our government hasn't taken the gold in recent years. It seems to me so many arguements can come from this however there really is a point we all can't ignore. We aren't "bad off " in such a way many think. Civilization,technology, opportunities( has declined some perhaps ) .. We live in all that. How many people around the world would literally murder to take your place living in the US? Granted everything isn't as it was .. Change is constant and never ending. Adapting is what kills some and changes(evolves ) others.
Back on topic for the sake of the thread , that crazy guy with enano Said it best.
No one is forcing you to take that job. In this world, there are literally 50 more similar jobs just like it and 50 more people willing to take that piss test.
Who wants another swing ??!!

 

[Magic9]

I think it's a pretty progressive policy compared to most companies. If we boycotted testing companies, we'd probably starve to death.

Government is a necessity. The animals still act like animals even with laws and prisons in place. Without structure, some people would just lose their shit (Lord of the Flies, anyone?).

The problem is when "they", or the "man" if you will, control the system. There is ample evidence of a "wealth gap". The erosion of the middle class. Money in politics. Lacking education in the public sector. Privatization of prisons that house non-violent drug offenders. Profits being made from dead Americans (war for the young soldiers/health insurance for the rest). You guys read the same stories I do. Our system benefits a few. Not the whole.

 

[grokit]

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

 

[tepictoton]

You all do know the definition of government right? To control the mind...now look at it again and tell me what you see....with some they are doing a great job, they got you thinking the way you should(Oh please mistel gobbelment help me i am such a poor lost being?). Fuck that. Again, before government, yes before we let someone else govern our mind, we still spread over this world and multiplied! It's a lie! We do not need government, at least not in the form as we have been shown here now! If we want to stay in a perpetuate state of war and chaos created by the few, funded by the poor then we should continue on this road where we decide to 'let them do it'. It is all about taking responsibility and telling it like it is!

 

[Caligula]

 

[tepictoton]

maybe change the names, but the game is still the same...

and if you still do not get it...

 

[lwien]

.... telling it like it is!

"Tell it like it is !!"

"Power to the people!!"

Where have I heard this before?

 

[tepictoton]

Hehe,

just to make clear...not trying to argue here. we all have different views and that is what makes it interesting...

And yes, no need to take radical standpoints. They are just believes or ideas...we need to carry them like feathers, not like heavy weights dragging us down.

I personally would never subject myself to any type of drug testing for a company. I have been fortunate enough to work in a place where my boss seemed to know that in my personal case smoking cannabis did not make me perform less at my job...

 

[mestizo]

Saying we don't need government is a pretty radical standpoint.
So @tepictoton, what is your model of ideal society where there's no government? What is your alternative?

 

[tepictoton]

we do not need government as in the meaning of the word itself. We do not need anybody to govern our minds.

When it comes to the rest of this politics stuff...It's all a charade, meant to distract all of us. There is only one world, and the only war meant fighting should be the one against poverty. My life really got a lot better when I threw my TV out. And yes I do still follow 'news', but i choose my own sources for that, and yes I check their sources too.

I am not blind, and do realize we have it pretty good(West-Europe) compared to the rest of the world! But that is not a comparison that works for me...simply put, your shit does not make my shit less shittier...

As soon as all of us get our heads out of the sand, or some politicians ass, maybe things can be changed for the better, but as long as we buy into the bullshit country blabla stuff lets go kill each other, I am out and cannot give my consent to it without pointing out this is not the only way to do things.

Let us have politicians, why not, but let them be responsible for their actions. Lets point all those freaking cameras and surveillance stuff on them, hey you want to tell millions of other people how to live their lives, then those millions of other people have the right to know exactly what you are up to.

No secret meetings, no whatever bullshit that is costing us, anybody that pays taxes, more money then it would ever cost to give all of us a basic income, well hell, just for the fact of being alive and breathing...there is more then enough money to do that, if it gets directed in the right direction. And do not start saying now that we will all become lazy bastards then, because the lazy bastards now will still be lazy then, but at least people with a true passion can then pursue that passion and I for one am convinced this would make the world a better place....

hehe what a policy change and an unknown vapor company cannot unleash LOL

We have been made blind and are mostly unable to think outside of the boxes that have taken over our most private spaces...

 

[lwien]

When it comes to the rest of this politics stuff...It's all a charade, meant to distract all of us.

We have been made blind and are mostly unable to think outside of the boxes that have taken over our most private spaces...

 

[aesthyrian]

So, are they testing for alcohol? That's certainly a dangerous drug.. Caffeine kills too..

And the whole argument about no one is forcing you to work for them, well what happens when you live in the area and are desperate for employment? What happens when all the private corps start drug testing? What happens when the only medicine that works for you, means you cannot get a job?

Guess you better adjust your lifestyle to fit the ideal lifestyle of the CEO. Because after all, work is life, work isn't something you simply do to support yourself and pay for essentials and some extra fun things...

All hail the CEO, for he/she is king.

It's just silly.

I'll boycott Openvape simply because C02 generally sucks IME and fuck PG. Fuck pre-filled anything.

When those users become addicts is when the real issues begin and the danger that they not only inflict on themselves, but the danger that they inflict on family, friends and just about everyone else they come in contact with can be devastating.

Like Alcohol?

Was prohibition a better solution? I think not.

We can do what other decent countries do and see drugs use as a medical issue rather than a criminal issue. I mean, I personally never understood how taking a certain substance instantly makes you a criminal. You always needs a provider before you can before a criminal by use, so shouldn't we be dealing with the dealers, not the users? You can arrest every user their is, and tomorrow their will be plenty more as long you have a free flow of whatever drug they are using.

Pretty sure my car radio wasnt stolen so someone could buy a bag of weed...

You're probably right, but it's a fallacy to believe that their are no real criminals dealing in the weed market.

I have come across many horrible and shady people thanks to the illegality of Cannabis and me having to find hookups. The type of people that if they just stole your stereo you owe them a thanks...

These people probably also use much harder drugs than Cannabis, and also sell much harder drugs.