Discontinued Zion vaporizer

[Bongologist]

I understand, just saying that any redesign, recall, delay, affects everyone equally. Thanks for the news.

Incidentally, I would rather be compensated by getting another Zion at whatever preorder price we paid (or a good discount on milaana). That seems fair to both parties and could be an influx of money.

 

[srama21]

a sort of quasi update though really nothing has changed as we are still waiting in progress limbo for Zion, while Milaana keeps getting closer and closer as speculated.

I agree man. no offense, but hardly an update. i'm still 65% certain that about 25% of my patience has run out but the remaining 75% is still staying strong to pull through to see this project to 100%.

any update on the zion knob redesign itself? did RBT find that perfect 80s style stereo knob?

 

[ragnorokk]

I just cleaned one of my (very) dirty stems using a little bit of hemp fiber, and I'm vaping that mess right now. Man, what a good time. I know the screens can just be pushed through, and you can vape what collects, but this also had the benefit of keeping the fine-ground stuff from getting sucked through again.

 

[Shit Snacks]

I agree man. no offense, but hardly an update. i'm still 65% certain that about 25% of my patience has run out but the remaining 75% is still staying strong to pull through to see this project to 100%.

any update on the zion knob redesign itself? did RBT find that perfect 80s style stereo knob?

and not really, I think he has a plan, I'm not sure if it entails a different knob itself or just proper bushing etc as Maggie mentioned earlier. It could be both, he could be waiting on parts or still searching for a new knob, remains unknown. As you said the takeaway boils down to us just waiting in the dark a bit more, as he doesn't have enough time to devote to Zion building just yet, but as I understood it, he does have some sort of plan for supply and construction once Milaana gets rolling soon.

I just cleaned one of my (very) dirty stems using a little bit of hemp fiber, and I'm vaping that mess right now. Man, what a good time. I know the screens can just be pushed through, and you can vape what collects, but this also had the benefit of keeping the fine-ground stuff from getting sucked through again.

Nice! I have not been reclaiming anything honestly, never tried either method really (expirmented with hemp fiber with OG Zig), its just a bit of extra hassle to me and I don't need the efficiency frankly. I'll try again some day...

@Bongologist I like that thought, we'll see, if getting the tech sooner is a priority I'd recommend getting in on Milaana now while it's price is still low, even if you don't need the greater portability at all bc it is still an effective tool for sure Otherwise you could wait and see if what you're suggesting can become a reality, I will try to remember to mention your idea if/when I speak to him again later on

 

[WakeAndVape]

Definitely respect your oppinion and agree largely with your statement except this part:

To address the ideas that an update takes minimal effort, for him that simply is not the case. Essentially any time taken to respond to messages or craft an update takes away from Milaana time (ie drilling bodies to get to assembly to start being made), not everyone can just hammer something out quickly, being who he is it takes him more time to carefully word things and his feeling is that time is better spent on the product development, and hearing about everything else going on in his life I am inclined to agree.

I thought there were two full time, fully trained people working for him...

Also the fact that looking for a new job is on his priority list is concerning ONLY because the news of his employment end was tied to hopes of full time focus and attention

That being said, he should have at least 15 minutes of his day freed up.

Unless he has mental processes we don't understand, his updates don't seem too time consuming or well thought out, especially in regards to time estimations or clear communication...hell...he didn't even change the update date.

I know you are well intentioned and only wish to silence some of the uncertainty, but that is only further enabling a disregard for a group of people who at this point want his success as bad as him.

I hope all is well with you at @MrPeanut hopefully you'll stick around even if it's to update us on your condition...fuck the zion in that repect! (Mr Peanut health update thread?)

As personal as I can get from the other side of a screen: my positive thoughts are with you and your journey.

 

[nondarb]

so he is actually still looking for other work

I was told the two new guys are now fully trained and doing a great job on assembly, so they will be able to expand as well

To be clear are these two new guys or the same two we heard about being trained ~2.5 months back?? And why would he PAY and train someone to assemble and look for other work himself? Wouldn't it make more sense to cut the cost of one (or both?) of the employees and get down to putting some together himself?! Surely he is quicker at assembling his own product.

Something stinks.

 

[Shit Snacks]

Definitely respect your oppinion and agree largely with your statement except this part:


I thought there were two full time, fully trained people working for him...

Also the fact that looking for a new job is on his priority list is concerning ONLY because the news of his employment end was tied to hopes of full time focus and attention

That being said, he should have at least 15 minutes of his day freed up.

Unless he has mental processes we don't understand, his updates don't seem too time consuming or well thought out, especially in regards to time estimations or clear communication...hell...he didn't even change the update date.

I know you are well intentioned and only wish to silence some of the uncertainty, but that is only further enabling a disregard for a group of people who at this point want his success as bad as him.

They are not full time, and they do not do everything, they are assembly only as I understood it. His search for a new job is related to the rest of his life, as this project is essentially still a hobby until there is steady stock and sales. The news of his unemployment being referred to as a positive thing for full RBT dedication was really our own speculation and was apparently only part of the picture as there is a lot more to do (and going on in life otherwise) than we realize, so I apologize for being part of that problem, again I just don't know all the details, now I know a bit more at least though.

Similarly, apparently those updates do take more time than that, it is not as simple as it seems, regardless of opinion. I made that argument as well, but A some people like me just take a while to read write edit post, and B the time is decidedly better spent on doing physical manufacturing labor, training, or production/distribution deals so there is actually an update worth sharing. What's most important to prioritize is debatable, and all the detials are still unknown, but this is the way it is, regardless of our expectations and opinions.

To be clear are these two new guys or the same two we heard about being trained ~2.5 months back?? And why would he PAY and train someone to assemble and look for other work himself? Wouldn't it make more sense to cut the cost of one (or both?) of the employees and get down to putting some together himself?! Surely he is quicker at assembling his own product.

Should be the same, a lot is involved and as I said they are part time. The value here is time, he is not quicker, he is far slower, the assembly process is broken into two main parts so it can move more efficiently with a some sort of rotation system I think as well. I do not know how much they are paid, or how every hour of their and RBT's day are spent, I do not even know all the details and work that goes into making one Milaana, even if it is simple overall that is still relative without being one of the actual few people directly involved. All I know is these guys are doing great work, seemingly better in some ways, to help get things ready for many Milaanas to be made over a short time. It seems to me that manufacturing and assembly are actually quite different from engineering and design despite their overlap (as are marketing, customer service, PR, running a business etc. and that much I knew) so everything seems to make sense to me

 

[HellsWindStaff]

@WakeAndVape 100% That was my only gripe too. 24 hours in a day...he doesn't need to update everyday, but the idea he doesn't have the time is so... you can compose part of an update on the shitter, eating breakfast; lunch, dinner, while vegging out....take the time to not have a Zion session one night or morning or whatever, and just use that time to compose up a list of what was accomplished and what needs to be done.

It's not a lack of time, but a lack of making/prioritizing the time. But as its been said a lot, he is who he is so our expectations simply just must meet that.....it's not a pill anyone particularly has to like to swallow, but it is what it is and at this point, the pills swallowed if you paid for it.

But, on the flipside, I can empathize with people who felt they were eating one pill, and then got another.

@Shit Snacks you should honestly be hired as an online service rep, you go above and beyond to deliver answers to people, to the best of your ability, soley for the love of the vape.....people aren't always the most polite yet you continue to always deliver quality service.......I know you've been accused of being a shill so might as well go all in!

I am teasing in that regard, but you are someone who is a familiar/known face and I think he could honestly greatly benefit from you handling an online portion of CS things. Not that any other member wouldn't be, but you really do go above and beyond in that department IMO so thanks for always being transparent

On the idea of a thread solely for negative experiences or opinions......that seems like a bad idea. I always viewed the vapes as an extension of the company they're represented by, so if there is a problem with a vape/company, it should be noted along with the positive ones. Shipping questions are simply questions about shipping, so I personally like a shipping thread for all preorder vapes, because the question is surely going to be asked but has no pertinent place with the vape or company. But.....if they shipped out the wrong stuff or it arrived broken, I would expect that to be posted in the main thread. .02 , just a matter of opinion I suppose.

Plus, I think discontent furthers discontent, and a thread that would be devoted to bashing I don't think would come across well on anyone.

I look forward to seeing what comes ahead with the Milaana and this, a price increase (potential) is certainly interesting news......as I said in an earlier post (I think?), there is reason why these aren't selling like hotcakes....there is lack of demand.....but the tech is otherwordly.........so why a lack of demand?

Don't know if a price increase is actually the correct course, though I understand profits must be made. I think being able to show a history of being transparent and available and having good CS, can go along way in promoting demand...... people like knowing they have a point of access, Dynavap is a great example. as always mentioned. Look in the thread, and you'll see users saying how they spoke with George and he gave them x answer and y answer and then he pops in and answers stuff.

Then when people review the vape, they're like, "Wow, I had all these questions and they were so helpful with me! A+"

I was just casually looking at some w9 tech gear, and asked a few questions.......got thorough responses to everything I asked plus a ton of additional info that was pertinent to my decision........it wasn't something I absolutely needed, and kind of was talking myself out of it, but bought it all when he got back to me so promptly and so indepth. That was the action on his part that made me want to buy one, I'm a noob with wax pen stuff so it was nice having Sam as a resource.

.02, as the saying goes, if you don't have anything nice to say don't say anything, so I am trying to be respectful in the critiques and even in my own way try to offer help, but I will bow out, as I agree to a degree it gets a bit like a broken record.....

Track 1. Ascending to Zion
Track 2. Check It (The Dirty Stems)
Track 3. I Sent An Email......
Track 4. The Ballad of RBT Pt.1 (Excuse)
Track 5. The Ballad of RBT Pt. 2 (No Excuses)
Track 6. Refund

Even the best records get old after awhile :Lol:

 

[Shit Snacks]

Thanks @HellsWindStaff, working in this industry can be my backup plan if the rest doesn't work out, would be nice to actually get paid for the amount of time and energy I put in myself (much of it better spent elsewhere honestly) but the way I see it I am just trying to do what I myself would've loved from beta testers in other places here past and present, I know waiting sucks and as someone who's been through many others I absolutely believe strongly in the products I have tested for RBT.

How these products are being brought to market I cannot truly comment on effectively, as no other really can either imo, since we really know of only a small part of the picture, I always talk about the perspective but I find that to be one of the biggest takeaways from this internet age: there are all kinds of people so it is just impossible to judge entreily based on what we think we know, there are always parts missing (regarding check list of things to be done, I just don't get the impression that's the way he works, a true update like that might looks the same week after week)

Price increase will be out of necessity, this much I know, I believe demand will increase rapidly when they are all built and available to ship immediately it will be much easier (George had orders flood in and is still catching up now too), but this will also certainly help slow it down a bit so they eventually match maybe. I actually had been recommending the price increase based on my own knowledge of the market, experience with other vapes, and finally using these ones. I wholly believe that it can command it (part of where tuning up the Zion quality comes from), not to mention it also means more extras come with each package.

As it is this is still in hobby mode and we are at the mercy of one individual, who ofcourse has other shit going on as well. So until there actually is some sort of rolling "profit" to turn back out and increase supply with workers, parts, distributors, and customer service reps, it is like a catch 22 purgatory. We are close, I think Milaana is strong enough to get this rolling more like a real company (it is all RBT himself has to use now as well btw), whereas the Zion is a true portable desktop log killer still worth waiting for imo, it is just more of a vaporist boutique item in the end while Milaana is more accessible and practical for most average users (aka not necessarily crazy guys like you and me though I think its working pretty well for me in beta at least!)

 

[GTAVaper]

The mainstream vaper has never heard of FC.....yet they are online and buying Pax and Solo's by the truckload through online vendors and B&M stores. Until the early Milaana's get some wider audience reviews and reviews by well known online Youtube reviewers and publications the demand will not materialize.

If the vape performs as well as the beta team is raving about then I have no doubt that with a little time RBT heater tech will receive the attention that is needed for the exposure to increase the demand that would allow the company to grow.

But when all is said and done ......we all have to just play the wait and see game and time will tell how this vape does in the marketplace in the long run.

 

[flotntoke]

.....
Something stinks.

I'll say it does!!! @Shit Snacks was awesome to ask for the info many have been whining for here for 6 weeks or more, and then came and wrote a damned book (THANKS, SS!! You rock!). Response? A couple of thank yous, then more whining along the lines of "thanks for finding out and telling us all you can, but you're full of shit, so fuck you! whhaaaaaaaa!" Despicable! I also don't think it's a good idea to create a new thread for discussions, whining and bad mouthing (for reasons given above and a couple more), but there sure seems to be a lot of justification for it here and in the MI thread. Really hate to see FC dropping to this level.

By the way, when did you order @nondarb ?

Mr. P, good luck with what lies ahead! Hope all goes well! No vapor is kind of tough I suppose, but better to be healthy as you can, and if the herb gets in the way it's gotta go. Happy trails to you.

 

[little maggie]

It seems odd to only compensate three people, faulty units or not. Has the wait been different for them somehow? If I get mine and need to send it in for warranty work will I be compensated? Doubtful. That seems very arbitrary and everyone is waiting, not just these three people (though what a horrible tease to actually have one, then not, I do sympathize). I know the main benefit was price and lifetime warranty, but if compensation for waiting is being handed out it should be equal, especially if there aren't that many preorders.

Actually I think the wait is longer. The 3 of us ordered last June. I'm ok- my CFX comes tomorrow so I have something new to try to help my VAS waiting.

 

[WakeAndVape]

as I said they are part time. The value here is time, he is not quicker, he is far slower, the assembly process is broken into two main parts so it can move more efficiently with a some sort of rotation system I think as well. I do not know how much they are paid, or how every hour of their and RBT's day are spent

From RBT's website:

Milaana Update
100% of manufacturing processes are in place at the new factory. 85% of the work instructions are complete with 70% of the workforce trained. The initial 40 production units are 80% of the way through final assembly and test. Several hundred units are moving through various parts of the manufacturing and assembly process. Units are scheduled to start shipping in early April with current backlog predicted to be shipped by mid May.

@Shit Snacks maybe this is where the confusion came in for me and @nondarb?

Is RBT into playing things up?

 

[Bongologist]

@little maggie i appreciate you ordered earlier and therefore waited longer, but I was more referring to the October ship date. From that point on we have all waited the same time for delays, and hopefully delivery.

 

[ragnorokk]

@Bongologist In all fairness, while the vast majority of current customers are affected by the slowdowns... the 3 that had to send theirs in have had warranty issues that are taking longer than intended (same issue affecting everyone now, but warranty is a different issue from pre-order). I was given freebies by w9 when I had to send stuff in that took a while to get fixed and replaced, so it seemed to me kind of like RBT was looking to give the same type of CS that other companies offer.

I think your solution of being able to get another Zion at that low introductory price is potentially a great solution, but is a move that has also been seen negatively by many when Hopper Labs performed the same action. I think there are significantly fewer Zion customers, they've been waiting significantly less time, and there's no doubt that a Zion takes more than an hour (GH assembly time) to assemble. These factors make it tough to tell if that would be a good move or not, but maybe RBT will find a way to make it work. I bought my second one at full price, and am still waiting in line for it, so I'm certainly not against him making some sort of concession to us preorders who want another unit on the cheap

 

[little maggie]

I am not implying anything about posting positively or negatively more just about staying focused. What the the positives and negatives of a vape are in one thread. What are the positives and negatives of a company in another. Much like the moderators asking to move glass discussion out off this thread to a more topic specific one. Much like the shipping complaints were moved to a specific thread.

These threads always get to the point where they are too long with too little useful information, too much speculation and not worth the time it takes to read them.

I think they still have soap operas on TV for those that feel the need for drama in their lives lol.

As far as my reports on Zion, Milaana or future devices they will be a thing of the past. For a long time my docs did not think I was a candidate for a heart and kidney transplant but have recently started to talk about the possibility. So my days of enjoying the Jah herb are passing as I wean off for good and get ready to go on the transplant list. I was not aware but they will not even allow a person to use medicinally before a transplant.
I am confident that the Milaanas and Zions that all of you early and loyal adopters are waiting for are just around the corner and you should all be excited for this awesome tech. I am excited to see all of the happy users and success that will certainly follow for RBT.

Peace out

I hope your wait for a transplant is very short and that it goes well. I don't think that vaping causes rejection but they really want to make sure that you are as healthy as possible other than problems related to the transplant organs. No drugs, alcohol, nicotine. I quit smoking "herbs" for 15 years following my transplant and only started last year when I discovered vaping. Been carefully monitoring my labs and not only no negative effect but some things have improved.

 

[MrPeanut]

I have no doubt that I will join the fold of the canna-nation after the transplants have been installed for lack of a better term. If for some reason I cannot get on the list it is back at it full force. YOLO

 

[Shit Snacks]

From RBT's website:

Milaana Update
100% of manufacturing processes are in place at the new factory. 85% of the work instructions are complete with 70% of the workforce trained. The initial 40 production units are 80% of the way through final assembly and test. Several hundred units are moving through various parts of the manufacturing and assembly process. Units are scheduled to start shipping in early April with current backlog predicted to be shipped by mid May.

@Shit Snacks maybe this is where the confusion came in for me and @nondarb?

Is RBT into playing things up?

Honestly a lot of that is too vague for me to really appreciate that confusion, I can make it fit with what I was told too. It does add to my point that it is not a 15 minute checklist but a carefully crafted progress report, classic corporate style (see GH), so that could certainly seem like playing up depending how you look at it, but I am used to seeing that type of writing other places myself. In regards to the several hundred units, he did tell me plans are in place to scale up to the 100s for Milaana, but various parts again is a vague wording bc this is a multi step process with a lot of things going on at once, so perhaps it is easy to get confused if you try to figure it all out with the limited info provided. Its all too subjective clearly

 

[Andreaerdna]

Honestly a lot of that is too vague for me to really appreciate that confusion, I can make it fit with what I was told too. It does add to my point that it is not a 15 minute checklist but a carefully crafted progress report, classic corporate style (see GH), so that could certainly seem like playing up depending how you look at it, but I am used to seeing that type of writing other places myself. In regards to the several hundred units, he did tell me plans are in place to scale up to the 100s for Milaana, but various parts again is a vague wording bc this is a multi step process with a lot of things going on at once, so perhaps it is easy to get confused if you try to figure it all out with the limited info provided. Its all too subjective clearly

What? He takes time to split progress in each field of production up to the 5% precision (85% LOL) and for you this is vague, I think you are loosing it :-)

 

[Shit Snacks]

What? He takes time to split progress in each field of production up to the 5% precision (85% LOL) and for you this is vague, I think you are loosing it :-)

Alright, what are work instructions, how many of them are there? I sure as shit have no idea what 85% means in that context at all, just means progress to me (all the % seemed almost like a joke even). If you think you can really know almost anything going on from that then frankly I don't think you ever had it dude

 

[jojo monkey]

"70% of the workforce trained"
I'd like to know what is 70% of two people?

There must be more peepz?

I hope things get figured out. I'd like to try this heater one day.

 

[peterpiper]

So who won the competition ?

 

[Andreaerdna]

Alright, what are work instructions, how many of them are there? I sure as shit have no idea what 85% means in that context at all, just means progress to me (all the % seemed almost like a joke even). If you think you can really know almost anything going on from that then frankly I don't think you ever had it dude

Chill out please, me too was joking around % and progress stuff.

Although I have a serious question for you:

Do you check with him what you are allowed to tell us about progress on rbt vapes?

Can we consider you now as a NONPAYED company rep more than a simple beta tester, or are you an Assange kind of guy, leaking us private informations?

 

[KeroZen]

This is annoyingly turning into a "how I imagine RBT should run his business thread". It's increasingly painful to read and if you guys all think you know better, then either start your own vape company, or contact Ryan directly to offer your help.

Anything else just feels like you're stirring the shit, and how thoroughly you chew it it's not going to turn into chocolate. You're just passing your frustration onto other FC members, and Ryan isn't even reading you here anymore, because we made him run away, exactly like we scared many other manufacturers in the past...

 

[Bongologist]

@ragnorokk its not a warranty issue if the whole line is affected, and it is with a complete redesign of a part. Shitsnacks even called it a recall, and that would affect everyone if any more had been shipped. I hope the three are compensated, along with everyone else who is waiting.

When RBT was still posting here, I suggested (and was ignored) four times that we are offered another Zion at our prepaid price though the second would have to be at the end of the line, after everyone had gotten their preorders. I certainly do not expect that to happen but the gesture would go a long way to repairing what he has brought on himself by not communicating well.