Discontinued Zion vaporizer
- Thread starter lwien
- Start date
Oh come one @DieHard so you found a source for various colored stems with the proper US 18mm joint and that tease is all we get?! Let's seem em all together and get a link to order some ourselves buddy!
I did! BUT, they are Chinese and only 3 of the 6 different colors that I ordered fit the Zion without modification. I trimmed 3mm off the end of the blue one (with my dremel. not recommended) to make it not bottom out. The joint grinding is not consistent at all. I'm gonna search more tonite.
KeroZen
Chronic vapaholic
The magnets come loose because I think they are too strong for the amount of surface being glued. If the new sanding process isn't enough, he'll either use a stronger glue or source weaker magnets.
The battery contactors are not more springy because they are designed to retract in case of a short. You can bend them with two fingers if they don't make a good contact.
Excuses, always more excuses, I know...
The battery contactors are not more springy because they are designed to retract in case of a short. You can bend them with two fingers if they don't make a good contact.
Excuses, always more excuses, I know...
Copacetic
Somewhere North of The Wall
That opener is really something special DieHard, what a great little heirloom/memorial.
The coloured stems are veeeeery nice too.
It'd be great if we could get stems in 'flash' glass so we could etch patterns through the color in a Ryan Fitt stylee.
I dont understand why people are complaining about the few failures? As @Shit Snacks said the whole idea of a slow roll out (and the delay) is to eliminate the chance of lots of faulty units getting sent out. Unlike many other things not just vapes that normally go out despite the manufacturer knowing of problems and folks having to return them. Ultimately making more people more upset! As an example I recently purchased a brand new $50,000 4x4 that uses oil, the manufacturer knows some of them use oil but still sells them and deals with the ones that come back!!!!
I don't want to get a unit that has known potential problems only to have to send it back increasing risk every time it goes through customs! I want to try and find my own problems which I think I will struggle to find as they are all going to be ironed out first. Just my
not directed at any one in particular.
I don't want to get a unit that has known potential problems only to have to send it back increasing risk every time it goes through customs! I want to try and find my own problems which I think I will struggle to find as they are all going to be ironed out first. Just my
not directed at any one in particular.
TeeJay1952
Well-Known Member
Edric al-Fali
Well-Known Member
I share your fears and concerns and read your other post in the Milaana thread. If Zion takes off and RBT becomes a viable and trusted company with strong products, I hope you give it another look. I'm going to wait for mine and will be putting up a thorough review. There are people I know who won't buy from RBT until they see mine in action.
Since I was last in line for both, I assume it will be at that point where regular sales will begin. Maybe check em out next tax season or something.
If you're still looking for a portable, feel free to message me and I can tell you the pros and cons of what I use.
hweezi
formally cwheezy
I thought that was what the beta testers were for.
I don't remember any of the beta units having these simple problems. Just odd, that now they do, and the timing with him starting up mass production without any of us thinking that was his initial direction rubbed me the wrong way.
hippogriff
Well-Known Member
There can be multiple rounds of beta, on the way to production, now we're kinda in alpha cause Z-team is testing production units. The "new" problems are a couple old issues that hadn't effected enough people yet (springs and set screw) plus multiple issues caused by one change in epoxy. On the epoxy, viscosity and cohesion/adhesion are subtle and prevailing factors, and gluing smooth - metal & glass - to porous wood requires a lot of control (temp, humidity, gravity, venting, etc) for the flow of the liquid and the holding structure that results. Smooth stuff will always find a way to shear off, especially if there's a little shrinkage during cure, unless you have a bit of encapsulation in your design. And liquid will always flow unless stopped by a barrier or air pressure - wood is an imperfect barrier so sealing steps might be needed, maybe even a gluing jig, who knows.
I'm guessing "mass production" in this case is still just a couple hundred units at a time, beyond that the wooden design is less optimal. It's really hard to get this work done - especially when outsourcing bodies or circuits - in smaller numbers, and really hard to run a sustainable business smaller, too, I imagine. I think in the case of the 3 warrantied units it would be better for perception management to make them work by non-production means and get them back in people's hands.
I see all these developments as signs work is happening.
To be clear, I am no longer testing the Zion. It has become my go to vape for flowers. I am using a production Zion (Logi). My Beta (Loki). Was sent back to @RastaBuddhaTao because I broke the female glass being stupid and careless. I have heard nothing since I sent it back. I am ok with that. I'll get it back eventually.
Nope as I see it the beta testers were for innitial design and heater config/temp perfection. And its purely increasing production capability that has brought on a couple of hiccups. Instead of one guy putting things together on his own with love in a shed its now him maybe rushing to get things out or simply more chefs in the kitchen... The simple design will not afford too many other problems once these are ironed out and once things start rolling I think its gonna snowball.
Also we knew full well it was gonna be a slow process! For two reasons
1. To limit the potential to send out many faulty units (already payed off)
2. Because of limited supply of wiring harnesses, until a second supplier is brought online.
Oh and I guess
3. Takes time to actually put together.
All these things seem to be happening correctly and number 1. Is one of the reasons I ordered a Milaana... Made me confident of getting something that just works out of the box.
So communication has dropped off? He's probably busy and hey I'm pretty sure he stated why he was backing away from FC and that is because he was getting slammed for what I think he thought was just poking a little fun (amongst other things)
Any way I'm not saying I have blind faith in RBT but i feel I have been given enough information to trust him with my money for now and believe I will receive a kick ass vape for that money and trust
P.s. I think that alot of people who pre ordered are technically still beta testers thats how I was able to order internationally gets around the CE compliance stuf.
Sorry for going on I always intend to punch out a nice short post and get lost in the moment and cant stop
AJS
Calm Consistency
I think you hit the nail right on the head my man.Nope as I see it the beta testers were for innitial design and heater config/temp perfection. And its purely increasing production capability that has brought on a couple of hiccups. Instead of one guy putting things together on his own with love in a shed its now him maybe rushing to get things out or simply more chefs in the kitchen... The simple design will not afford too many other problems once these are ironed out and once things start rolling I think its gonna snowball.
Also we knew full well it was gonna be a slow process! For two reasons
1. To limit the potential to send out many faulty units (already payed off)
2. Because of limited supply of wiring harnesses, until a second supplier is brought online.
Oh and I guess
3. Takes time to actually put together.
All these things seem to be happening correctly and number 1. Is one of the reasons I ordered a Milaana... Made me confident of getting something that just works out of the box.
So communication has dropped off? He's probably busy and hey I'm pretty sure he stated why he was backing away from FC and that is because he was getting slammed for what I think he thought was just poking a little fun (amongst other things)
Any way I'm not saying I have blind faith in RBT but i feel I have been given enough information to trust him with my money for now and believe I will receive a kick ass vape for that money and trust
P.s. I think that alot of people who pre ordered are technically still beta testers thats how I was able to order internationally gets around the CE compliance stuf.
Sorry for going on I always intend to punch out a nice short post and get lost in the moment and cant stop
After reading 200 pages in a few weeks, and seen everything he's been through, as well as this thread, I have, not blind, but justified faith, that everything will arrive as it should.
In a year, people will be buying Zions / Milaanas like crazy, love their units, and have absolutely no idea about the sweat and tears that went on in this thread. They'll just have a perfect unit, and will take it for granted. Not us. We'll appreciate every last aspect of this vape, in a way that others will never be able to feel.
KeroZen
Chronic vapaholic
Well you have to keep in mind that we have had several private conversation threads going on in succession, the latest one being 58 pages long but there has been at least two others before that. A lot has been happening under the hood and since we are all under NDA most of it wasn't discussed in public.
All failure modes had been encountered already (excepted the magic smoke out of the button) and as said before there aren't that many things that can go wrong in the Zi, and even less in the Mi. As stated above most of the difficulties were around an apparently simple problem: adhesives. We've seen knobs come loose, magnets come loose and even female gongs come loose. I think RBT underestimated that part because well, in practice the fix is just "to glue it back" but I agree that it doesn't inspire confidence and doesn't give the impression of a premium product (what ultimately RBT wants to achieve in the end)
Now when it comes to RBT's plans and intentions, we have more insights of course but not much. It's pretty clear that there has been some unforeseen events and that this whole enterprise is surely more complex than what he expected. There has been some road-blocks too. I don't know what I can share or not, but RBT has put everything he got on the table. The stakes are high for him: he has quit his job, he got children, a house to pay for etc... One thing is sure: he wants to succeed. In fact he has no other choice but to succeed!
About the apparent shift in priorities, this is entirely due to the market (ie what we FC members did) Zions pre-orders were way more limited than Milaanas. He projected that at this rate it wouldn't be sustainable. There was more demand for the Milaana and it's easier and cheaper to produce. So this is where the money is. RBT is a business, the choice was pretty obvious. Then meanwhile he learnt the fate of Triihouse, he realized most log makers are very small one-man operations, not able to scale and hardly sustainable. So he focused on getting production rolling, getting deals with distributors and resellers (will also help for CS and support, because as you all noticed communication is not his strongest skill...) He found this factory space, a couple of motivated workers, and... we don't have much news starting from that point, apart that it's advancing. That's all we know. Last time I spoke with him by mail he seemed confident. It just takes a lot of time and effort, that's all.
ragnorokk
DERP
Actually, the contacts are a safety feature that's been mentioned several times before. In the event of your batteries trying to dump their load in a nifty thermal runaway event, the contacts are designed to break away (I don't recall the actual amperage at which they bend away, but it functions as a manual resettable fuse, IMO). It doesn't look like the fanciest piece of machinery, but like most of the other parts it's designed with the KISS method and can therefor be fixed easily (the actual 'spring' contacts, like flashlight springs used in some devices will melt; that's still a safety feature, but is only good for a single failure and needs to be physically replaced afterward, where the Zion contacts just need to be bent back and you're ready to rock).
To be fair when I first got my Zion and saw the contacts I was a bit underwhelmed at what the future looked like. When I bent them from some oversized batteries, RBT explained that there was no reason to be shy bending them back and that he'd chosen that contact style specifically because it could stand up to a lot of abuse.
Edit - d'oh, missed @KeroZen essentially posting the same thing. Oh well, I stand by my unnecessarily long winded explanation.
Last edited:
ragnorokk
DERP
I know I'm being a tease, but I got a brief message from the man himself stating that there would be big news in the next few weeks. It was a reply at 4AM the other day, and I haven't heard from him since -- I assume he is still just instructing his crew and hand-fabricating heaters day in and day out to meet the demand for the milaanas and Zions that are on order.
My apologies to the 3 Zion casualties, as it wasn't a dialog and I don't have updates for them, just the assurance that a big update is en route.
My apologies to the 3 Zion casualties, as it wasn't a dialog and I don't have updates for them, just the assurance that a big update is en route.
nondarb
.
May as well quit looking at the RBT site then. You've missed it, next Zion's are supposedly coming from other vendors. Good.
There ought to be some BIG news in the next few days (were passing "early April" right up), but I suspect he will handle this missed mi date as he did the other.
Shit Snacks
Milaana. Lana. LANA. LANAAAA! (TM2/TP80/BAK/FW9)
Zions and Milaanas will both be sold on the site at wholesale when production gets rolling.
As I see it, the dates are only really there for those who absolutely need some kind of time frame, not to create a commitment that must be apologized for if/when it proves to be false. Not "missing a date" since an exact date was never truly given, so nothing to "handle" imo
As I see it, the dates are only really there for those who absolutely need some kind of time frame, not to create a commitment that must be apologized for if/when it proves to be false. Not "missing a date" since an exact date was never truly given, so nothing to "handle" imo
DocGonzo
Well-Known Member
I think you have to pick which way you want it. If you give dates then people will expect you to meet them, or nearly meet them at least. If the goal was time frames, then use a quarter of the year type system, with a more open frame, or just don't give one and use vague language like "coming soon." I'm in this until it falls apart or I have my Zion in my hand, but I cannot blame anyone for being frustrated by the date stuff or for expecting explanations/apologies.
I know RBT was wary of dates for this exact reason, and that was last summer.
I know RBT was wary of dates for this exact reason, and that was last summer.
nondarb
.
When you say a time in a month, its most certainly a roundabout way of giving a date. If what you are saying is his plan, then he ought to let us know rather than spew a bunch random percentages and roundabout dates each update. I'm asking for clear and honest updates, not a true deadline. Waiting is one thing, being bullshitted is another.
Which is exactly why I'm not particularly sympathetic to his missing dates. He knew of the issue and continued down the path regardless. At any rate we'll see what's up with the new update whenever that is, hopefully its a little less convoluted.
