stickstones
Vapor concierge
I wish I had an answer to that question, but I usually throw it in the bowl as soon as I remove it. I have, on occasion, packed a bowl and not used it, then come back weeks later and get blasted.
Discontinued Zion vaporizer
- Thread starter lwien
- Start date
HD Springer
Well-Known Member
Ya I get some of my most big,condensed,potent clouds from those.
The Zion lookes to be the type of heat transfer that I'm used to in some of my vaporizers so I'm excited to see how many of my set ups thrive with the Zion.
The Zion lookes to be the type of heat transfer that I'm used to in some of my vaporizers so I'm excited to see how many of my set ups thrive with the Zion.
Shit Snacks
Milaana. Lana. LANA. LANAAAA! (TM2/TP80/BAK/FW9)
The FC100 is basically a 100 beta pilot production run, as such it is being released in stages, first a few varying ones, then 5, then another 5 (where @DieHard is I believe?), then 30, then the rest of the remaining orders.
The longer you wait, the more refined your unit will be (and can always upgrade later)
So short answer yes
We are half way through shipping the Beta test fleet of ten units. The design will be refined based on feedback from the Beta Test Team this month. Next month we will ship a small production pilot run of which we have most of the orders for. Full production shipments are scheduled to start in October.
We will be offering the Zion at the current price of $169 for two more weeks before changing the final retail price of $199 so order Now.
http://www.rastabuddhatao.net/apps/webstore/
We will be offering the Zion at the current price of $169 for two more weeks before changing the final retail price of $199 so order Now.
http://www.rastabuddhatao.net/apps/webstore/
virtualpurple
Well-Known Member
Damn, the anticipation is killing me.
The RBT team is working hard to accelerate the process as much as we can without skipping any steps to ensure a high quality refined design. Thanks for your patients and support!
stickstones
Vapor concierge
I'm on day 4 with nothing but the Zion (except for a quick test of a concentrate mod I was sent for review), and this is by choice. If you've seen my video, I'm using that setup for everything but the nightcaps. It's great to be able to have a portable rig that hits like a desktop on demand...I'm no longer relegated to the bedroom for my biggest rips! For nightcaps I just pull the Zion and M2M out of the bubbler, orient it right side up and attach a j-hook that allows me to lounge in bed comfortably.
If you're on the fence about getting in early, here are my thoughts. If you are into ease of use as the biggest priority, move along. The Zion has a learning curve similar to the mflb or firefly. But if you value the big hits more, get in line. I haven't been this impressed with a beta product since the VXL Cloud. Right now it is a beta unit and doesn't have much polish, but at $169 I can't think of anything that produces like this (I don't think this includes batteries or a charger, so get some good deals on amazon for that). The price is going to go up to $199, and I have been encouraging them to make $250 the final price point, because the performance is more than worth it. I own a Crafty and think it is tops on the market, but if all I'm looking at are the hits, the Zion is superior, imo. Today's Zion price is reflective of its unfinished look, but its performance is on par with units three times its price.
If you're on the fence about getting in early, here are my thoughts. If you are into ease of use as the biggest priority, move along. The Zion has a learning curve similar to the mflb or firefly. But if you value the big hits more, get in line. I haven't been this impressed with a beta product since the VXL Cloud. Right now it is a beta unit and doesn't have much polish, but at $169 I can't think of anything that produces like this (I don't think this includes batteries or a charger, so get some good deals on amazon for that). The price is going to go up to $199, and I have been encouraging them to make $250 the final price point, because the performance is more than worth it. I own a Crafty and think it is tops on the market, but if all I'm looking at are the hits, the Zion is superior, imo. Today's Zion price is reflective of its unfinished look, but its performance is on par with units three times its price.
Here here @stickstones! 
It's like pulling candy floss with your breath, watching as you control the steady stream of delicious vapor as it flows into the hook. . . like strands of tasty cotton
Yep, Johnny Zion is rockin the J-hook look!
Yeah man, this my steezy fo' sheezy.
It's like pulling candy floss with your breath, watching as you control the steady stream of delicious vapor as it flows into the hook. . . like strands of tasty cotton
Yep, Johnny Zion is rockin the J-hook look!
I'll just disagree with this part. I found the ease of use to be pretty good. While the learning curve is probably a bit steeper than I thought, I don't think it compares with the LB. I think anyone can produce vapour from the Zion without much trouble. The learning required is more about how to get the results you really want. The great news is that with some experimenting, you can make the Zion work well for low temperature maintenance style hits, or you can cash out your load in two or three lung-busting cloud type hits.
It's interesting that the Zion has become your daily. The same thing happened to me, and I always thought the FV was not likely to be dethroned. I know the Zion has taken over for some of the other beta testers too, but I'll let them speak for themselves.
stickstones
Vapor concierge
Just one of the many reasons I love working with you...we come from such different perspectives that it is easy to cover a lot of possibilities! You've used all these manual vapes much more than I, so you have a much more experienced opinion on the usage techniques. I spend most of my time with set-it-and-forget-it vapes, so I lump most manuals into the same learning curve box without concern for which ones might be easier to master. And the best part about it is, despite our differing perspectives, we both love this vape!
Shit Snacks
Milaana. Lana. LANA. LANAAAA! (TM2/TP80/BAK/FW9)
Yup yup! As all will see from my eventual beach useage posts, Zion has quickly become my dd as well, more satisfying and fun to use than my Firefly and Elevape, and far more versatile.
Agree learning curve seems less than other manual units, perhaps because there are more variables here, but simply set dial, hold trigger preheat, being inhaling, feel the heat in throat (or taste for low temps) and then let go clear and exhale. Been getting friends gone quicker and with less hassle, in fact sometimes their lung power produces a bigger hit than me, very draw dependent as any good pure convection unit should be with a very open airflow.
The voltage dial and trigger help you control the hit with other variables, tailoring Zion for any user and any experience, kind of like a Triihouse torch vape in that way. I've been using Zion temp stepping a lot, but also on demand hits sporadically, or sessioned alone, or with another person or two, light and heady tastiness during the day, full power clouds through the bubbler at night, or start at 70% or so and just ride it out for full bodied individual bits or a session. Batteries life is great and quickly replacable, design is comfortably intuitive and solidly durable with all pure materials. Despite its size (which is still fairly sleek and portable for a desktop...) Zion really feels like the most versatile device I have used, with one of the best actual use experiences, it feels simple handcrafted diy and state of the art industrial power at the same time.
Incredibly worthwhile at $200, a total steal any lower, and as Sticks said, with the quality materials, powerful versatility, and the art-crafty feel (exotic woods and glass coming, plus other accessories) even a $250 price tag would be more than justified here imo
Agree learning curve seems less than other manual units, perhaps because there are more variables here, but simply set dial, hold trigger preheat, being inhaling, feel the heat in throat (or taste for low temps) and then let go clear and exhale. Been getting friends gone quicker and with less hassle, in fact sometimes their lung power produces a bigger hit than me, very draw dependent as any good pure convection unit should be with a very open airflow.
The voltage dial and trigger help you control the hit with other variables, tailoring Zion for any user and any experience, kind of like a Triihouse torch vape in that way. I've been using Zion temp stepping a lot, but also on demand hits sporadically, or sessioned alone, or with another person or two, light and heady tastiness during the day, full power clouds through the bubbler at night, or start at 70% or so and just ride it out for full bodied individual bits or a session. Batteries life is great and quickly replacable, design is comfortably intuitive and solidly durable with all pure materials. Despite its size (which is still fairly sleek and portable for a desktop...) Zion really feels like the most versatile device I have used, with one of the best actual use experiences, it feels simple handcrafted diy and state of the art industrial power at the same time.
Incredibly worthwhile at $200, a total steal any lower, and as Sticks said, with the quality materials, powerful versatility, and the art-crafty feel (exotic woods and glass coming, plus other accessories) even a $250 price tag would be more than justified here imo
Mister G
Deceptively Old Fart
Controlling the Zion sounds similar to the Daisy where the heat source is imprecise and you rely more on the vapor feedback itself to gauge vapor quality and when to stop hitting it (I mean using it dry and not through a WT), major difference being one has a battery fueled heat element and the other uses a butane torch. Any of you have both and can comment?
stickstones
Vapor concierge
At first, yes. But the Zion has a predictable heating curve and once you get used to it you can get consistent results that feel very 'controlled.' With a lighter the heat can be much more variable and get hotter and cooler quicker. Once the Zion gets to temp it settles in there and can be moved about by using the button. I only pull back when I get to the outer regions of vapor and feel combustion coming.
Shit Snacks
Milaana. Lana. LANA. LANAAAA! (TM2/TP80/BAK/FW9)
Yup just like Sticks said.
I have Lily and buddy has Daisy (bringing Zion over to him tonight for the first time abd some use with new herbs as well)
This has a similar feel in the vapor quality, and the wide open draw, to Daisy. The effects are similarly full, and true to "temp" (a form of temp control really can be done quite well here) but Zion is just more versatile and scientific. As in, results can vary based on all the ways to control heat (like Daisy/Lily have breath, torch, carb) as they work more systematically here than in the Triihouse vapes. Yes Zion is manual, but its manual can be more simply controlled, more quantifiable (even though it's still difficult to be exact, since manual instant convection tends to have so many variables)
That's a good point. We're almost polar opposites in many ways, so the fact we've both come to use the Zion as our go-to device is testimony to the greatest strength of the Zion design: its versatility.
I don't think "imprecise" is the description you wanted. The Zion produces the same heat at the same power setting every time, as opposed to a flame that must be maintained at the the same distance and applied the same way.
Shit Snacks
Milaana. Lana. LANA. LANAAAA! (TM2/TP80/BAK/FW9)
Exactly. For a manual, Zion can actually be fairly automatic. Similar to Triihouse in the feel of the device, the feel (or profile) of the hits, and the airy open draw factor (which along with preheat and draw length offer the variables)
KeroZen
Chronic vapaholic
As I said previously, I don't bring the Zion with me daily when I'm away from home (not stealthy enough in my laptop bag) but I found myself reaching for it more than my other vapes when I'm around.
This afternoon I thought that with the experience I gained with the Zion, I should retry my Firewood 2.1, as it's so finicky to use that it never satisfyed me fully, so maybe this time it would work better... But no. I really wonder if my device is not defective in the first place. I loaded a fresh bowl, preheated for 40 seconds, then took a first draw: blank. Kept the trigger, second draw, slower this time: blank. Third draw, lotsof air movement: blank. I continued the preheating, the device shell became hot to the touch around the heater... but damn only blank hits! FFS!!! I unloaded the glass capsule and it was almost burning to the touch, the material had changed color, but I couldn't get a single fucking proper hit!
That always has been my experience with the Firewood: sometimes it works, sometimes I get blank hot air hits and it makes me crazy... And I can't even imagine sharing it with friends because if I don't succeed they will even less!
Now with the Zion, the only times I get blank hits is when I'm completely distracted and I don't follow my kung-fu technic to the letter: enough preheat, good draw, release trigger, cash the remaining vapor (like a carb'ed bong) To me, it's really way simpler to use for the simple reason that if you need power, the watts are there and it delivers.
This afternoon I thought that with the experience I gained with the Zion, I should retry my Firewood 2.1, as it's so finicky to use that it never satisfyed me fully, so maybe this time it would work better... But no. I really wonder if my device is not defective in the first place. I loaded a fresh bowl, preheated for 40 seconds, then took a first draw: blank. Kept the trigger, second draw, slower this time: blank. Third draw, lotsof air movement: blank. I continued the preheating, the device shell became hot to the touch around the heater... but damn only blank hits! FFS!!! I unloaded the glass capsule and it was almost burning to the touch, the material had changed color, but I couldn't get a single fucking proper hit!
That always has been my experience with the Firewood: sometimes it works, sometimes I get blank hot air hits and it makes me crazy... And I can't even imagine sharing it with friends because if I don't succeed they will even less!
Now with the Zion, the only times I get blank hits is when I'm completely distracted and I don't follow my kung-fu technic to the letter: enough preheat, good draw, release trigger, cash the remaining vapor (like a carb'ed bong) To me, it's really way simpler to use for the simple reason that if you need power, the watts are there and it delivers.
The unit takes about 5 seconds for the heater to come up to temperature. If you are using it in "one and done" mode you need to account for the loss of heat into the cold body and run it hot. Once it is up to temperature the heater housing holds the temp pretty steady around 250 F. This large thermal reserve serves to buffer transients. The massive surface area of the heater ensures the entire flow front is at uniform temperature. After it leaves the heater it travels into the mixing chamber to improve uniformity prior to flowing into the load. I have never used a torch vape (Iolite doesn't count lol) but I am guessing there is quite a bit more variability in the heat source?
The DC power chip has been very accurate, reliable and robust. It holds the voltage at +/- .02 volts and survived temperatures up to 170 F. It has onboard current and temperature protection as well. It's made by one of the more reputable IC manufactures which is the key to reliable electronics. Sure it cost 4 times more than the Knock-offs but it will save a ton of money on warranty cost.
In short the Zion is an open loop device with very precise heater voltage control. Unlike it's little brother who runs unregulated straight off the battery which is more like a log vape in my mind. Meaning your heat source is always at a much higher temperature than the desired vaporization temperature.
The DC power chip has been very accurate, reliable and robust. It holds the voltage at +/- .02 volts and survived temperatures up to 170 F. It has onboard current and temperature protection as well. It's made by one of the more reputable IC manufactures which is the key to reliable electronics. Sure it cost 4 times more than the Knock-offs but it will save a ton of money on warranty cost.
In short the Zion is an open loop device with very precise heater voltage control. Unlike it's little brother who runs unregulated straight off the battery which is more like a log vape in my mind. Meaning your heat source is always at a much higher temperature than the desired vaporization temperature.
Last edited:
Mister G
Deceptively Old Fart
Actually it was exactly what I meant, but I was also hoping for clarification which is also what you provided, so thank you.
Man I am lovin' this electric analogue style of vape
And while there are obviously huge differences between the two vapes I can still see that I am able to utilise the Zion in a similar fashion to the way in which I use the Daisy - in as much as you can pick it up, just rip it and put it down. Then pick it up later & rip that same bowl some more. Or I can rip it fast or I can rip it slow
True vapor on demand out of a hand crafted wood & glass device.
But then good ol' Johnny Zion also seems to step into the Mighty's shoes really very well too. Providing a wide range of power, giving tasty low temp hits as well as high power cloudage - yet without the urgency of a shut off timer or the worry that the unit is selfishly roasting your load in between hits . . . and I won't even go in to the aesthetics, I shall just say that they are poles apart & allow you to draw your own conclusions on that one.
And then of course little Johnny's been quite happily having a splash about with some of my bubblers as well as getting rather comfortable and lounging in my J-hook.
So, it's just about 3 days in & I've gotta say that the versatility of this little monster is really shinning on through, tis very adaptable indeed imo.
And to me the feel is amazing too - it's literally one solid lump of wood cut to shape, & I am extremely pleased to say that RBT has done a splendid job of maintaining the continuity of the grain through from the body to the lid & battery cover - which to me is very important. I really love holding this thing. It feels honest, natural & powerful, & I think I might have a new crush
And while there are obviously huge differences between the two vapes I can still see that I am able to utilise the Zion in a similar fashion to the way in which I use the Daisy - in as much as you can pick it up, just rip it and put it down. Then pick it up later & rip that same bowl some more. Or I can rip it fast or I can rip it slow
True vapor on demand out of a hand crafted wood & glass device.But then good ol' Johnny Zion also seems to step into the Mighty's shoes really very well too. Providing a wide range of power, giving tasty low temp hits as well as high power cloudage - yet without the urgency of a shut off timer or the worry that the unit is selfishly roasting your load in between hits . . . and I won't even go in to the aesthetics, I shall just say that they are poles apart & allow you to draw your own conclusions on that one.
And then of course little Johnny's been quite happily having a splash about with some of my bubblers as well as getting rather comfortable and lounging in my J-hook.
So, it's just about 3 days in & I've gotta say that the versatility of this little monster is really shinning on through, tis very adaptable indeed imo.
And to me the feel is amazing too - it's literally one solid lump of wood cut to shape, & I am extremely pleased to say that RBT has done a splendid job of maintaining the continuity of the grain through from the body to the lid & battery cover - which to me is very important. I really love holding this thing. It feels honest, natural & powerful, & I think I might have a new crush
Shit Snacks
Milaana. Lana. LANA. LANAAAA! (TM2/TP80/BAK/FW9)
So since the GB-187 has a sinking 18mm connection in the center of the can, the top "control" portion of Zion can't clear it properly with the short male to male adapter I have.
So got me looking into alternative adapters that I thought I'd share here as well:
Right angle
http://www.ebay.com/itm/141715367275
http://www.ebay.com/itm/151615529247
Bent
http://www.ebay.com/itm/181701247981
45 degree angle
http://www.ebay.com/itm/261872398860
Some short direct ones
http://www.ebay.com/itm/261843321047
http://www.ebay.com/itm/261952790903
And this cool looking one thats kinda pricey
http://www.ebay.com/itm/301679037405
There are some 14-18s too that I should probably try, so I can connect to my straight tube icepinch bong...
There's also this for a bent stem option
http://aqualabtechnologies.com/glas...apters/alt-18-mm-male-mouthpiece-adapter.html
Now just need to decide which ones to order...
So got me looking into alternative adapters that I thought I'd share here as well:
Right angle
http://www.ebay.com/itm/141715367275
http://www.ebay.com/itm/151615529247
Bent
http://www.ebay.com/itm/181701247981
45 degree angle
http://www.ebay.com/itm/261872398860
Some short direct ones
http://www.ebay.com/itm/261843321047
http://www.ebay.com/itm/261952790903
And this cool looking one thats kinda pricey
http://www.ebay.com/itm/301679037405
There are some 14-18s too that I should probably try, so I can connect to my straight tube icepinch bong...
There's also this for a bent stem option
http://aqualabtechnologies.com/glas...apters/alt-18-mm-male-mouthpiece-adapter.html
Now just need to decide which ones to order...
Hey @Shit Snacks
You've found quite a varied selection there!
And that bent stem is definitely a very cool option too.
I see you've got a bent adapter listed - just like one I have, & I've found it quite usefull although it can stick in the Zion when removing it from your piece on occasion, and if you're not careful (depending on the piece you are using & the direction you remove the Zion).
I just threw young JZ on this here bong for a quick pic to give you an idea . . .
The Zion comes away easily without the adapter due to the angle of removal on this piece btw.
Happy shopping bud!
You've found quite a varied selection there!
And that bent stem is definitely a very cool option too.
I see you've got a bent adapter listed - just like one I have, & I've found it quite usefull although it can stick in the Zion when removing it from your piece on occasion, and if you're not careful (depending on the piece you are using & the direction you remove the Zion).
I just threw young JZ on this here bong for a quick pic to give you an idea . . .
The Zion comes away easily without the adapter due to the angle of removal on this piece btw.
Happy shopping bud!
Shit Snacks
Milaana. Lana. LANA. LANAAAA! (TM2/TP80/BAK/FW9)
Thanks Veg!
Looks like i already found a cheaper straight right angle one I may go with
http://www.ebay.com/itm/221732536306
I can't help thinking how cool this one would be for Zion side car action in the 187
http://www.ebay.com/itm/301679037405, but its just so pricey comparatively...
But now I'm contemplating 14-18 and using an adapter in either a the 187 or Zion (adapter is a bit short for 187 bc of lip so not quite airtight, but Lily worked. And in Zion some of the reducer sticks out but not a problem I think. Cool how Zion can take anything basically, big benefits of standard glass!) so I could use with the bong too, and eventual mini... Hmmm tough to decide with so many options! Maybe more Zion bowls will help...
That looks cool, & the price is at the lower end. You will have to keep us updated on your progress of course.
Peace bro!
Ahhh Snackydoos my good fellow, you know there's no 'maybe'!
Peace bro!