Discontinued Zion vaporizer

[pakalolo]

I'm pleasantly surprised by all the good reviews with little to no bad things to say about the Zion. Damn good beginning shaping up here.

The Zion is not perfect. I get nervous when expectations get high because it gets more and more difficult to meet them. There will be people who find fault with the Zion, and even those who won't find it to their liking. I think the majority will be pleased, however.

It would be good to keep in mind that although the reviews are mostly positive, there are few reviewers yet. The Zion hasn't passed the test of multi-unit production and distribution, and nobody knows how it will hold up under use in the field. Being simple means fewer failure points, not none.

Hoping I will be able to figure out a way to attach this little jewel to the Zion. 14mm female joint.

This is exactly what you are looking for. I use it to connect Jessica to my Orbiter.

​

 

[TheDudeNextDoor]

@pakalolo, So an 18mm male fits the stock stem?

 

[pakalolo]

@pakalolo, So an 18mm male fits the stock stem?

No, it fits in the bowl. You'll need a screen in the 18 mm end. Alternatively, you could use a bowl load but you'd have to be careful that the connector doesn't extend all the way down to the bowl screen, and you'd need a screen atop the load.

 

[TheDudeNextDoor]

No, it fits in the bowl. You'll need a screen in the 18 mm end. Alternatively, you could use a bowl load but you'd have to be careful that the connector doesn't extend all the way down to the bowl screen, and you'd need a screen atop the load.

Ahhhh...okay. I see what you're saying now. Gonna pick up one of these so it's ready to go when the Zion rises.

 

[cybrguy]

I get that a lot of folks like to use this type of device, but I have always been nervous about putting water ABOVE electronics. I'm sure it isn't a problem if you are careful, but we ARE talking about stoned people.

Variety and spice and all that...

 

[HD Springer]

As far as life goes there is no 1 perfect design on anything.Thats where the spice of life comes in to play.Variety is good in all aspects of consumerism.(I dont know or think thats a word).I'm a realist in the fact that I dont expect the world.More of if my Ascent and my Firefly were combined.I'm hoping I get the best of both those 2 worlds or close to it.

 

[Shit Snacks]

But that assumes the draw tube has a GonG connection, right? I was thinking we are still at a straight tube at this point.

That's where the male to male adapter comes in. Zion is 18mm female like LSV, so just need an 18-14mm adapter and use it as the draw tube, also like LSV.

Edit: ah been beaten to it. Yes the adapters are all over ebay, easy to find

 

[Mulehead]

I'm concerned that all this talk about pairing with water is going to sidetrack @RastaBuddhaTao , and the path of this device. I think some of us have forgotten y'alls original concept behind the Zion of KISS, and that you are designing task specific vaporizers? A flower portable, stealth flower portable, concentrate portable, even a home unit are some ideas i remember him kickin around earlier in this thread.
I mean c'mon guys, if the Zion is a pure convection portable, let's let it be a portable. I know my bubbler isn't exactly pocket friendly, or very portable. I'm sure RBT's future home unit will play well with water.
I would just be dissapointed if changes were made that took away from its main task of being just a pure convection portable, with good battery life.

As far as life goes there is no 1 perfect design on anything

Very well put. That's why im digging RBT's concept of task specific vapes that are great at that task, instead of trying to appeal to the masses, and create a supervape that "does" everything half assed.

 

[VegNVape]

I'm concerned that all this talk about pairing with water is going to sidetrack @RastaBuddhaTao , and the path of this device. I think some of us have forgotten y'alls original concept behind the Zion of KISS, and that you are designing task specific vaporizers? A flower portable, stealth flower portable, concentrate portable, even a home unit are some ideas i remember him kickin around earlier in this thread.
I mean c'mon guys, if the Zion is a pure convection portable, let's let it be a portable. I know my bubbler isn't exactly pocket friendly, or very portable. I'm sure RBT's future home unit will play well with water.
I would just be dissapointed if changes were made that took away from its main task of being just a pure convection portable, with good battery life.


Very well put. That's why im digging RBT's concept of task specific vapes that are great at that task, instead of trying to appeal to the masses, and create a supervape that "does" everything half assed.

Hey @Mulehead

I can definitely see where you're coming from & I do agree with you to a certain extent, however I don't honestly think that there is any real reason for concern.

I think that the Zion is probably far enough along the road that it is pretty unlikely that any major changes would be made to the core design elements which ultimately make this vape the full convection, powerhouse device that it is.

In my opinion, the whole water thing is not something for @RastaBuddhaTao to concern himself with at all. He has clearly stated that the Zion has not been designed with the intention of being used in this way so I therefore feel that it is really something for everyone else to figure out, experiment & play around with if they wish - once the unit is in their hands.

Until then the whole discussion of water filtration is completely unavoidable, especially in THIS forum. And anyway, as we already know from Sticks & Pak - pairing with glass has been easily achievable & has required no further intervention from RBT.

To my mind, the experimentation MUST continue!

I'm sure RBT will not allow such talk to distract from their true intention.

The force is strong . . .

 

[pakalolo]

I'm concerned that all this talk about pairing with water is going to sidetrack @RastaBuddhaTao , and the path of this device.

There's no cause for concern. @RastaBuddhaTao already did everything he needed to do when he chose the 18 mm bowl. There's nothing special needed to make any device usable with water tools except a connection method, and the bowl is a standard connector. To be honest, I found it a bit surprising that RBT said that use with water tools was not intended, given that design choice.

The Zion is portable but not pocket friendly. The form factor is set and isn't about to change. The two-battery power package dictates that. It is bigger and bulkier than the Solo and weighs almost as much as the FlashVAPE, which is solid aluminum. I think these are acceptable trade-offs for what you get.

 

[Mulehead]

found it a bit surprising that RBT said that use with water tools was not intended, given that design choice

Just trying to figure this out as well? @RastaBuddhaTao or @thekarmawhore, why is this?

 

[RastaBuddhaTao]

Sorry for the confusion. My comment should have been that RastaBuddhaTao is focused on the design of the unit itself and not on the required parts to transition it to use with other products. We are leaving that up to the imagination and creativity of our customers. Our contribution will consist of making a smaller device by loosing the batteries and mouth piece hole and making a smaller, symmetric unit that will plug into the wall. This will make it's use with other devices less awkward. We are really excited to see how our customers put the Zion into action.

 

[Shit Snacks]

The Zion is portable but not pocket friendly. The form factor is set and isn't about to change. The two-battery power package dictates that. It is bigger and bulkier than the Solo and weighs almost as much as the FlashVAPE, which is solid aluminum. I think these are acceptable trade-offs for what you get.

Any chance of comparison pics with other vapes like those pak? Help give a better idea of the size we can expect

Very glad you are one of the first for this guy, feel like I have a really good feel for what to expect already thanks to your well-written and detailed style as per usual

 

[pakalolo]

Thanks for the kind words. I'll extend that thanks to all of you who've expressed faith in my evaluation.

I realize that several of the things I've posted could use illustration, but I've not had much time to do that lately. I'll try to get to that this afternoon but today is bread-making day for me.

 

[Shit Snacks]

Thanks for the kind words. I'll extend that thanks to all of you who've expressed faith in my evaluation.

I realize that several of the things I've posted could use illustration, but I've not had much time to do that lately. I'll try to get to that this afternoon but today is bread-making day for me.

Yum, I agree that is much more important (challah?! lol)

No rush at all

 

[cybrguy]

I wonder if the (potential) concern of the male joint hurting the bowl screen (in water use) could be resolved by just having the female narrow slightly more than normal at the bottom. That might reduce the risk, but it may create other issues, like glasslock. I'm just thinking that no matter what the Zion is designed to do, we know very well that it WILL be used this way and we'll need to minimize any repair incidence that it might generate.
This "solution" might also make it hard to get the right part/joint as it would be non standard.
Just thinking out loud...

 

[pakalolo]

I wonder if the (potential) concern of the male joint hurting the bowl screen (in water use) could be resolved by just having the female narrow slightly more than normal at the bottom. That might reduce the risk, but it may create other issues, like glasslock. I'm just thinking that no matter what the Zion is designed to do, we know very well that it WILL be used this way and we'll need to minimize any repair incidence that it might generate.
This "solution" might also make it hard to get the right part/joint as it would be non standard.
Just thinking out loud...

To clarify, there is no issue with the bowl screen and connection to water tools. The bowl screen issue happens when loading the bowl, and I have news along that line.

The concern with putting a load in the bowl instead of in the stem was that you would need a screen atop the load, and the pressure of the stem against that top screen and load could push the bowl screen out. The potential solution was to use a modified stem that simply didn't sit as deeply in the bowl, and @RastaBuddhaTao sent me two shortened stems to try. They've arrived, I've tested them, and my conclusion is that loading the bowl isn't really practical, with or without shortened stems.

The problem is that without a specially made screen, it's really hard to get a screen in place that traps all the load beneath it. If you use a screen that has a diameter slightly smaller than the bottom of the bowl, you'll inhale some of the load. If it is slightly larger, it will drop in sideways, and when you try to flip it into place you inevitably wind up with some material above the screen. It's possible to make a screen that is easier to place but the benefits don't justify the effort. I've found that it is easier to put screens in the stems and connectors. If you need to have your load right next to the bowl screen, you can adjust the stem screen to do that.

I'm sure RBT will welcome the outcome, since it means fewer worries about the bowl screen getting displaced, and no need to offer shortened stems or special screens.

 

[cybrguy]

Thanks again, Pak. Good stuff.

I think I'll stop making suggestions until I have one in my hand.

 

[stickstones]

an ELB in the stem fixes everything, and you can have them preloaded.

 

[pakalolo]

an ELB in the stem fixes everything, and you can have them preloaded.

If you don't need a large load, an Arizer EQ elbow screen also works.

To answer an earlier request, here's a shot of my three not-pocket-friendly portables.

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While I had the camera out I thought I'd shoot the two water tools I've used with Jessica, along with the appropriate connectors. (Most of the resin has come from other devices.)

​

You can see that I've inserted screens in them... and I just noticed I have the long connector upside down!

Never mind, you get the idea. I like to use the long one as a stem until the flavour goes away, then I can just invert Jessica onto the bubbler.

 

[HD Springer]

Thats what I was hoping for(eq screen).The Zion looks very versitile in the ability to adapt with little needed..I like the fact that it has a lot of "common" parts.

 

[cybrguy]

You can see that I've inserted screens in them... and I just noticed I have the long connector upside down!

I was trying to figure out what the screen was gonna do for you down there.

What is the shape of the screen that RBT sends with the Zion? Is it also a basket shape?

edit: I've never used a stem based vape before so I'm not really clear on how they retain the goods. In photos I've seen both baskets and just a barrier.

 

[pakalolo]

I was trying to figure out what the screen was gonna do for you down there.

What is the shape of the screen that RBT sends with the Zion? Is it also a basket shape?

edit: I've never used a stem based vape before so I'm not really clear on how they retain the goods. In photos I've seen both baskets and just a barrier.

In this picture, the screen at the top is one of the screens that I tried to improvise before I got the Zion screens. It was a flop because it was too shallow, so there was not enough friction from the sides to grip the inside of the stem. I also used it to cover the buds when I was testing bowl loading. It was better at that but not much, since it took forever to get in place correctly.

The screen on the left is familiar to many of us as the Arizer EQ elbow screen. (This one came from planetvape.ca. Thanks Robert!) The elbow screen has two potential problems. First, stems and connectors do not all share the same inner diameter so sometimes the screen is a loose fit and sometimes it's too tight. Second, I'd say the maximum load size is about .1g if you have a fine grind and pack tightly. My normal .07 g nearly fills it before packing. On the plus side, I'd say the many fans of the EQ elbow pack will find the Zion version exciting and perhaps even intimidating.

The screen on the right is a Zion screen. It is indeed a basket, with high steep sides that grip the inner surface of the stem or connector. Again the normal ID variations in this sort of glass come into play. Although this basket screen usually works, there will be exceptions. In most cases, however, the grip is sufficient to keep the screen in place, allowing you to pack or stir the load. You can also move it back into the stem, which lets you have bigger loads. I set one 20 mm back from the mouth of the stem and managed to load up .3 g of medium grind with only light packing.

 

[Stu]

I'd say the many fans of the EQ elbow pack will find the Zion version exciting and perhaps even intimidating.

This sounds like a challenge to me.

 

[HD Springer]

You are a mind reader @Stu.Intimidation could make a person grow.