Discontinued Zion vaporizer
- Thread starter lwien
- Start date
Thanks to @KeroZen and his focus on battery safety the Zion will spare no expense with the power plant... Genuine LG and Samsung batteries will supply the power and a genuine Nitecore charger will supply the charge. The safety of the batterie's IMR chemistry and the charger's protection circuitry will help ensure our customers are kept from harm provided all of the safety precautions and battery care are followed. The only thing that trumps quality is safety!
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MikeInMiami
Well-Known Member
KeroZen
Chronic vapaholic
It's a bit too soon to issue recommendations, we will have to perform more stress tests and checks. But provided you managed to source genuine Sony cells (and that's the problem, there are so many fakes floating around!) and given the 30A continuous discharge rate announced, they should work fine. Actually 20A continuous should already be ample enough, below that C rate there could be issues with some cells.
But the vape parameters are not carved in stone for now, everything may be subject to change.
But the vape parameters are not carved in stone for now, everything may be subject to change.
TheDudeNextDoor
Abiding
@KeroZen is correct. Sony stopped producing the VTC series for some time, so fakes starting showing up in mass quantities since the VTCs were so popular. They are back in production again, but the fakes are still all over the place. Buy only from reputable vendors who guarantee their product.
The Samsung 25Rs are a safer buy in the sense that most you find on market are actual Samsungs. Still, if you go with a reputable vendor, you should be good either way.
Here's a great battery vendor with good prices and a stellar reputation: IMR Batteries
The Samsung 25Rs are a safer buy in the sense that most you find on market are actual Samsungs. Still, if you go with a reputable vendor, you should be good either way.
Here's a great battery vendor with good prices and a stellar reputation: IMR Batteries
MikeInMiami
Well-Known Member
@KeroZen @TheDudeNextDoor thanks guys! I'll likely just buy batteries through RBT when I get the Zion to solve all my problems at once lol
What we have here is a group of highly trained professionals. All spot on guys. This is the benefit of the Zion's power plant... An easily obtainable, well tested and economical replaceable cell 
So I dare ask, when I do the single cell unit should I hard solder the battery in to cut cost or should I make it replaceable... Seems like the portable vape companies are using both models... What do folks prefer?
Edit: furthermore if it's rechargeable via a micro USB would you still want to AC charge spares? How important is pass through if the battery is swappable?
...and what if you could make a vape super stealth but the battery life was measured in hits? What if that vape had a three second change-out of both the battery and the load? Would that make a 10 hit battery life tolerable? Where is the size / energy battle balance out?
So I dare ask, when I do the single cell unit should I hard solder the battery in to cut cost or should I make it replaceable... Seems like the portable vape companies are using both models... What do folks prefer?
Edit: furthermore if it's rechargeable via a micro USB would you still want to AC charge spares? How important is pass through if the battery is swappable?
...and what if you could make a vape super stealth but the battery life was measured in hits? What if that vape had a three second change-out of both the battery and the load? Would that make a 10 hit battery life tolerable? Where is the size / energy battle balance out?
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MikeInMiami
Well-Known Member
@RastaBuddhaTao absolutely make it replaceable!!!
A huge complaint from pax 1 owners was a lack of user replaceable batteries ( same about the crafty and mighty folks ) and while the firefly had batteries you can swap yourself, they cost a lot, unlike a 18650. Learn from other companies mistakes I say
A huge complaint from pax 1 owners was a lack of user replaceable batteries ( same about the crafty and mighty folks ) and while the firefly had batteries you can swap yourself, they cost a lot, unlike a 18650. Learn from other companies mistakes I say
1_gr8_underdog
Trapped in the Astral Planes Back from the dead
Replaceable, if the battery is swappable I don't feel a passthru is needed, though some may disagree. Yes a a/c charger will be nice even if it recharges via usb. There are times I have no usb access. Where 120v is all that is available.
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TheDudeNextDoor
Abiding
Definitely replaceable. No question.
Shit Snacks
Milaana. Lana. LANA. LANAAAA! (TM2/TP80/BAK/FW9)
Always replaceable you'll find. Agreed outside charging makes in device charging unnecessary, but some do like the option
Smoke1ForMe
Well-Known Member
Replaceable for sure. pass through is not necessary if you can swap the batteries in my opinion.
10 hits might not be enough, carrying extra batteries is a pain never liked doing it with the MLFB.
10 hits might not be enough, carrying extra batteries is a pain never liked doing it with the MLFB.
Yoosh
Well-Known Member
@RastaBuddhaTao
Most would prefer replaceable although a non-replaceable model may be worth having for newbie vaporists. You could really cut into the mflb & flowermate market it it's cheap enough. Maybe a fancy wood version with replaceable batteries and a cheaper, soldered version made out of something else?
Pass through is not that important to me. I prefer USB as I have tons of those cables lying around.
Absolutely yes to the super stealth vape! Especially if the load can be quick-changed. I've been looking for something like this to replace my T1 & EVO. Something sleek, manual, and convection. The Elevape is solid but the shape isn't as easy to carry around as my T1 was. It was perfect for a few hits throughout the day without ever being a nuisance to carry or reload. The grasshopper seems poised to fill that niche but the competition would be great for everyone (especially me!). If the battery only lasts 10 hits then the performance needs to be extremely consistent (sometimes an issue with the T1/evo) and the size needs to be small enough that it can be carried throughout a day in regular attire without ever being noticeable.
Excited to see what comes of this!
Most would prefer replaceable although a non-replaceable model may be worth having for newbie vaporists. You could really cut into the mflb & flowermate market it it's cheap enough. Maybe a fancy wood version with replaceable batteries and a cheaper, soldered version made out of something else?
Pass through is not that important to me. I prefer USB as I have tons of those cables lying around.
Absolutely yes to the super stealth vape! Especially if the load can be quick-changed. I've been looking for something like this to replace my T1 & EVO. Something sleek, manual, and convection. The Elevape is solid but the shape isn't as easy to carry around as my T1 was. It was perfect for a few hits throughout the day without ever being a nuisance to carry or reload. The grasshopper seems poised to fill that niche but the competition would be great for everyone (especially me!). If the battery only lasts 10 hits then the performance needs to be extremely consistent (sometimes an issue with the T1/evo) and the size needs to be small enough that it can be carried throughout a day in regular attire without ever being noticeable.
Excited to see what comes of this!
natural farmer
Well-Known Member
Definitely replaceable for me as well! But... I would also like it to be able to double up as a home unit if needed so I choose the passthrough as well even if more expensive. Maybe add a switch that would change the vaporizer from a bettery unit to an AC unit or better 12V? Would that be simpler or not? I would like that option cause I am a minimalist and would love to have one device, flexible enough to handle both outdoors and indoors. One vape to rule them all! Since I started vaping four years ago this is my goal, to find the one and only!What we have here is a group of highly trained professionals. All spot on guys. This is the benefit of the Zion's power plant... An easily obtainable, well tested and economical replaceable cell
So I dare ask, when I do the single cell unit should I hard solder the battery in to cut cost or should I make it replaceable... Seems like the portable vape companies are using both models... What do folks prefer?
Edit: furthermore if it's rechargeable via a micro USB would you still want to AC charge spares? How important is pass through if the battery is swappable?
...and what if you could make a vape super stealth but the battery life was measured in hits? What if that vape had a three second change-out of both the battery and the load? Would that make a 10 hit battery life tolerable? Where is the size / energy battle balance out?
I believe it's a more sustainable approach than changing vapes every few months. Now when you say about making it super stealth, do you mean putting in a battery smaller than a 18650? If so, how long would those batteries last with such high-stress usage? Wouldn't that make the super stealth one a high maintenance and not so sustainable vaporizer?
KeroZen
Chronic vapaholic
@DannyVi : two is what we will get in the Zion already, the question was about a second vape with a smaller form factor.
I think we should distinguish "swappable" and "replaceable". The former is desirable but can lead to problems if the user selects a low grade cell (or a fake one heh!) The latter is what they did in the Solo and Air: on paper you are not supposed to change them, it's good for their liability / insurance, but in practice if you are careful you can...
I'm not a legal expert and even more "IANAL" (silly acronym isn't it?!) but I know that the Ascent rep stated several times that they had to change their initial plans and made the Ascent cells non replaceable for legal reasons... But knowing how the device is built, I have some doubts about that. I mean, the current design is very hard to open and service, as is if it was never planned that it could be opened by the user, so unless they redesigned everything in the mean time...
And on the other hand we have competiting vaporizers with fully swappable batteries and they don't seem to have any legal problems right?
There can be issues with air-mail shipping and Lithium chemistries, but the Zion will come in an optional bare-bones version without cells nor charger specifically to cope with this issue. And it will allow power users already owning a fleet of cells to use what they got, provided they meet the minimal requirements of course.
I think we should distinguish "swappable" and "replaceable". The former is desirable but can lead to problems if the user selects a low grade cell (or a fake one heh!) The latter is what they did in the Solo and Air: on paper you are not supposed to change them, it's good for their liability / insurance, but in practice if you are careful you can...
I'm not a legal expert and even more "IANAL" (silly acronym isn't it?!) but I know that the Ascent rep stated several times that they had to change their initial plans and made the Ascent cells non replaceable for legal reasons... But knowing how the device is built, I have some doubts about that. I mean, the current design is very hard to open and service, as is if it was never planned that it could be opened by the user, so unless they redesigned everything in the mean time...
And on the other hand we have competiting vaporizers with fully swappable batteries and they don't seem to have any legal problems right?
There can be issues with air-mail shipping and Lithium chemistries, but the Zion will come in an optional bare-bones version without cells nor charger specifically to cope with this issue. And it will allow power users already owning a fleet of cells to use what they got, provided they meet the minimal requirements of course.
Great feedback... Thanks all!
Keep it coming .....
Keep it coming .....
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Shit Snacks
Milaana. Lana. LANA. LANAAAA! (TM2/TP80/BAK/FW9)
Yeah also, theres going to be a desktop pass through version too, with all these different Zion variations, people can just pick the one (or two... or three...) that fit their particular needs.
Also just had to say @cybrguy that I love the new pic--thats a gorgeous cuddlefish, and they always have the perfect expression haha
Also just had to say @cybrguy that I love the new pic--thats a gorgeous cuddlefish, and they always have the perfect expression haha
IAmKrazy2
Darth Vapor
I agree if the battery is replaceable, pass through is a bonus not a requirement.
"Super stealth" is only important to me if it doesn't sacrifice function. One could always get mflb if they want super stealth. I would rather have a higher powered and/or longer lasting device than something that is a smidge smaller
"Super stealth" is only important to me if it doesn't sacrifice function. One could always get mflb if they want super stealth. I would rather have a higher powered and/or longer lasting device than something that is a smidge smaller
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virtualpurple
Well-Known Member
I'm getting too excited for models to be released. I'm as excited and antsy for this as I was for my Haze or my Herbalizer! Can't hardly wait my turn.
tepictoton
Well-Known Member
For the back cover... I do believe one can use hemp fiber as a source for plastic... How about investigating that route? Guess it would be a nice addition to the materials used... Giving it both a bith of the old (plant material) and a bit of the new (plastic made from said plant)
cybrguy
Putin is a War Criminal
I've been sitting here trying to imagine when I might use a passthrough on a stealty pocket size portable and I can't imagine it. Other than leaving the house with dead batteries and no spares I suppose if I had a battery pack to charge my phone I might hang that off if it would work, but I certainly don't think I would be likely to use it hung off my laptop or something awkward like that. I guess my point is that would be a pretty desperate situation, and I don't think the device need be designed for desperate use.
The regular "home" unit is a different story but I can't work up concern for this on a true pocketable.
The regular "home" unit is a different story but I can't work up concern for this on a true pocketable.
RUDE BOY
Space is the Place
Love the looks of this vaporizer so far.
I'd like True pass-through power on my Zion(like the ol' no2). And no usb plugs or charging from the computer for me I want a good old fashioned wall wort with a barrel plug. Also don't want it to be too small as not everyone wants or needs another tiny ass pocket vape.
The Zion has those looks kinda like a log vape and I'd wanna use it more like a log.
This design doesn't look to lend itself to the "stealthy little pocket portable" to me, but I'd love to be proved wrong.
... 
I'd like True pass-through power on my Zion(like the ol' no2). And no usb plugs or charging from the computer for me I want a good old fashioned wall wort with a barrel plug. Also don't want it to be too small as not everyone wants or needs another tiny ass pocket vape.
The Zion has those looks kinda like a log vape and I'd wanna use it more like a log.
This design doesn't look to lend itself to the "stealthy little pocket portable" to me, but I'd love to be proved wrong.
...