Discontinued Zion vaporizer
- Thread starter lwien
- Start date
stickstones
Vapor concierge
I would do stealth flower first as well. We can tweak a vape to do concentrates in the meantime...but we can't make them smaller!
Shit Snacks
Milaana. Lana. LANA. LANAAAA! (TM2/TP80/BAK/FW9)
Yup, stick to flower! Concentrate is cool and all, but pens are pretty effective, and again many many of us solely use flowers anyhow
MikeInMiami
Well-Known Member
My initial thought would be a stealth flower unit, but would we have to sacrifice power for stealth? IMO vapes like the crafty and Air are are so popular cause they offer the same performance as their bigger brothers while achieving a smaller ( and to some a more desirable ) form factor.
Also, in reference to a flower/concentrate or separate units, I'd rather have a dedicated vape for each. Trying to rub your belly and pat your head can tend to over complicate things. For example, my herbalizer can do both, and very well I might add
BUT it still doesn't compare to using a oil rig with a Quartz nail. That being said, if you are confident that you could make the Zion perform well doing both, I trust your decision and will support it 
Also, in reference to a flower/concentrate or separate units, I'd rather have a dedicated vape for each. Trying to rub your belly and pat your head can tend to over complicate things. For example, my herbalizer can do both, and very well I might add
BUT it still doesn't compare to using a oil rig with a Quartz nail. That being said, if you are confident that you could make the Zion perform well doing both, I trust your decision and will support it 
My initial thought would be a stealth flower unit, but would we have to sacrifice power for stealth? IMO vapes like the crafty and Air are are so popular cause they offer the same performance as their bigger brothers while achieving a smaller ( and to some a more desirable ) form factor.
Also, in reference to a flower/concentrate or separate units, I'd rather have a dedicated vape for each. Trying to rub your belly and pat your head can tend to over complicate things. For example, my herbalizer can do both, and very well I might add
Yes, it's hard for a car to be a truck lol. The Zion has more power than it needs with the .3g load size. The single batt unit would be able to roast a load just as well it's just it would be around a .1g load so you sacrifice size. It would be good for one or two draws like to dugouts of old.
There are two design approaches, one is to have variable temperature and the other is to set it to run hot and the user would have to time / "feather" the fire button. The first gives consistent temperature at the expense of size and cost, the second sacrifices control but is smaller and more economical. We will prototype both to see how finicky the unit is that we simply tune the heater to an average battery voltage. If the delta in temperature is low enough it just might work. I kinda like the idea of the operator needing to throttle the unit to the desired output. It's similar to the e-cig guys running unregulated mods. The unregulated version could almost be as small as the Grasshopper but I think I would like a longer cooling flow path. However, if it's a removable stem that slides into the body like the Zion it would be easily pocketable.
When I ordered the parts for the latest Zion build I ordered some 14mm joints so that I can prototype the stealth unit. I will run a few jugular test and report back on how it goes. It's hard to keep focused on pushing the Zion over the line because the stealth unit will be fun to design.
Thoughts?
Shit Snacks
Milaana. Lana. LANA. LANAAAA! (TM2/TP80/BAK/FW9)
Man, so much great stuff. Well, I am always pro temp control, but since we will have that with the Zion, maybe it would make sense to make the stealth unit as small and cheap as possible, making it a true lower tier but more portable option, with the same power output regardless.
That being said, I am actually more excited about the Zion. The long running time, simplistic design, and early user experience seems like it truly will be like a portable desktop. Like the Solo (which people like to say is at least...) but so so so so so much better, hot damn I want it
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MikeInMiami
Well-Known Member
lol get that Zion wrapped up asap! my wallet is spinning like a top over here!!
As far as the portable goes, I'd really prefer the adjustable temp version even if I have to pay more and its bigger. I've dealt with vapes where you have to throttle the heat, and find that I really don't care for the learning curve required ( the MFLB and firefly come to mind ). And IIRC, you mentioned earlier about tuning the zion to operate at different temp ranges, i think implementing that into the portable would be ideal, something like 360-410F? doesn't have to be a crazy range at all if its meant to be a quick one hitter type vape. Also size will determine how people feel about it. Whats stealthy to me might not be to someone else. I have no problem walking around the beach or downtown at night with my solo in hand, nobody even thinks twice. Again YMMV lol all this is just one man's humble opinion
Agreed!
Thanks for the props all... Full throttle on Zion output!
Ok... Curve ball... Unit delivers a tuned temperature at the sweet spot so all you have to do is develop draw consistency to get optimum vaporization (trust me
so only an integrated fire switch ... But the unit accomplishes it by dumping waste heat through a resistor (10% battery life reduction) but the package size is GH sized and cost $40 less or full temperature control with and exposed knob and fire button and slightly bigger size with 10% better battery life and of course cost $40 more?
My guess is the latter...
Either way I'll probably bench test both....
Now where is that Karma Whore with those photorealistic 3D renderings? Hmmmmm
Ok... Curve ball... Unit delivers a tuned temperature at the sweet spot so all you have to do is develop draw consistency to get optimum vaporization (trust me
so only an integrated fire switch ... But the unit accomplishes it by dumping waste heat through a resistor (10% battery life reduction) but the package size is GH sized and cost $40 less or full temperature control with and exposed knob and fire button and slightly bigger size with 10% better battery life and of course cost $40 more?My guess is the latter...
Either way I'll probably bench test both....
Now where is that Karma Whore with those photorealistic 3D renderings? Hmmmmm
MikeInMiami
Well-Known Member
HD Springer
Well-Known Member
I personally want\need to have full access to the temp control.I own a Firefly and thats my biggest issue. There is too many factors that having only 1 set temp brings up.I'd pay what ever the price dif. for the Zion with the changeable temp control.PLEASE keep this in mind,because im VERY interested in this type modle.I really think your're close to hitting a walk off grand slam.Sorry but your prototype has me pretty excited.
Shit Snacks
Milaana. Lana. LANA. LANAAAA! (TM2/TP80/BAK/FW9)
All three of these sound right to me!
Reliable ShotZ
Active Member
Stealth flower next, its very difficult for us Brits to get concentrates. But I would prefer you to fine tune and improve on your Zion than to go down the stealth route, I fear you would have to make too many sacrifices that would hinder quality.
cybrguy
Putin is a War Criminal
Just prior to starting vaping I was still regularly using a dugout. When the quality is high, often one really good hit is all I need. And don't tease me with that "more power than it needs" stuff...
This. The nature of the Zion is so attractive that I'm having some difficulty thinking about shaving function off of it.
I think I see what you are saying about controlling temp. That is part of how I control the Lotus. But I would have to try it to see if it was all that was necessary. I have a one temp portable and find it as little frustrating. Ideally I would like to have at least some more discrete temp control. And I will give up some size and expense for it.Ok... Curve ball... Unit delivers a tuned temperature at the sweet spot so all you have to do is develop draw consistency to get optimum vaporization (trust me
It might be possible to use a needle valve type flow restriction to adjust the inlet air flow rate to get a "poor mans" temperature control. Similar to what the e-cig guys use on the mods. I notice that you can "carb" the inlet on the Zion and create different vape signatures.
The trick is to have the heater tuned such that with a normal draw you are in the sweet spot. Choke the flow it gets hotter, open the flow it gets cooler. This way your not trying to control the flow by drawing differently but rather by mechanical flow control. I think there might be a market for super small with the younger crowd given the buzz around the GH. Clear here that folks want the temperature control so that's where I'll start because I believe it to be a key requirement for any vape. All ideas to have fun tinkering with on the bench. In all likelihood I will end up doing both to develop a "something for anyone" product line.
For me I will take the slightly larger Zion and it's .3g session sized load and ability to roast 10 - 12 of em perfectly golden brown on one battery charge...not sure why everyone is hung up on size?... And isn't bigger better ? Lol.
The trick is to have the heater tuned such that with a normal draw you are in the sweet spot. Choke the flow it gets hotter, open the flow it gets cooler. This way your not trying to control the flow by drawing differently but rather by mechanical flow control. I think there might be a market for super small with the younger crowd given the buzz around the GH. Clear here that folks want the temperature control so that's where I'll start because I believe it to be a key requirement for any vape. All ideas to have fun tinkering with on the bench. In all likelihood I will end up doing both to develop a "something for anyone" product line.
For me I will take the slightly larger Zion and it's .3g session sized load and ability to roast 10 - 12 of em perfectly golden brown on one battery charge...not sure why everyone is hung up on size?... And isn't bigger better ? Lol.
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tepictoton
Well-Known Member
This is all sounding very nice...
Keep it coming
Keep it coming
Sounds like you guys are gonna be busy ! Im very interested in a concentrate vape. If one is in the works its #1 on my list.
Shouldnt be too hard to impress people with all the crappy pens on the market. Im sure theres lots of people who have no idea how good their oil really tastes. Please enlighten them.
Shouldnt be too hard to impress people with all the crappy pens on the market. Im sure theres lots of people who have no idea how good their oil really tastes. Please enlighten them.
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MikeInMiami
Well-Known Member
Agreed. Speaking of which, have you finalized the dimensions of the Zion or are they still to be determined?
Shit Snacks
Milaana. Lana. LANA. LANAAAA! (TM2/TP80/BAK/FW9)
Goal is for under 200, base model likely being around $150 it seems, but its still undetermined
Yes, I believe @thekarmawhore is making the last final tweaks and should be revealing the final design complete with cover... Chant it with me.... Kar-ma-whore, kar-ma-whore, mar-ma-whore!
So TKM needs to get mfg status so it will take some time before he can post... Isn't the suspense killin' ya lol
poonman
Well-Known Member
Any chance * someone * could upload a usage video on you-tube ?