YOU are not being threatened....

[h3rbalist]

I don't think he's saying that at all. I thought he expressed himself pretty clearly. I'm not sure why you're reading things into @lwien's post. Perhaps that's why you find it vague.

I'm a huge fan of not taking stuff on the interwebs personally. It's something I learned before the WWW was even invented, having participated and moderated online forums since the early 80s. You can't be a good moderator if you take things personally. For example, lwien has posted things about me that are less than flattering but do I care? Nah. He's just some guy on the internet poking at my really thick skin.

Having said that, I never considered before that we should actually incorporate that into the rules. I don't see how it could be enforced. Right now, when I see a discussion getting out of hand I'll make a post that often includes that advice. I think that's how the other moderators handle it as well. I don't think adding something to the rules would make any difference.

I'm not reading into anything.

Just innocently replied to a comment that I see as vague/unclear and have got the wrong end of the stick obviously.

Still not 100% what the author is implying, I'm just glad one of us is clear.

 

[lwien]

....I'm just glad one of us is clear.

Me too.

 

[pakalolo]

Yeah you care 'cause if you didn't, you wouldn't have remembered it let alone what post it was in.

And btw, for those that are kinda new here, please know that I ONLY poke fun at those that I really respect.

Don't confuse recall with caring, especially in the sense implied by this context (taking offense). I remember it because someone sent me a PM asking if I took exception to it and I thought it was the perfect example for this discussion, considering the source and all. I had no idea who sent the PM, just a recollection of the timing. PMs have no searching capability except filtering by participant, so it took a lot of searching to find that PM. Since I took the time to do it, you can also use that argument but it still would be the wrong context. What I cared about is driving home the point that people shouldn't let strangers on the internet get them upset.

 

[lwien]

I remember it because someone sent me a PM asking if I took exception to it.........

Wow, really? Guess it just goes to prove how a stab at humor with some innocent jabs that were not in the least meant to be taken seriously, were in fact, possibly taken seriously.

I gotta be more careful......

On a side note, I shouldn't be talking about how others look. Here's a pic of me after I got really high using my first vaporizer, a VaporGenie:

 

[grokit]

Exactly, but that's what humans do sometimes. It can be really bad with cars . . .

It's called post-purchase rationalization, just thought I'd mention that there's a name for it

 

[Radio]

You are so far off base it's not even funny. Ego has nothing to do with it. Your totally overthinking this.

Trust me. I could care less if you validate my purchase. I was just trying to counter some of the misinformed opinions being posted.

I think I totally UNDER-thought it. Hah. I must have been high and talked some pseudo-garbage.

 

[Enchantre]

For whatever reason, I totally feel like this belongs in this thread.

I know You will understand:

 

[DieHard]

My best advice is the same I use for on the job: "leave your feelings at home". They are not useful here.

And:
Take everything from this forum with a grain of salt.
And while we're at it. "Remember, opinions are like assholes..."

 

[Mrmrmrmr]

Wow, really? Guess it just goes to prove how a stab at humor with some innocent jabs that were not in the least meant to be taken seriously, were in fact, possibly taken seriously.

I gotta be more careful......

On a side note, I shouldn't be talking about how others look. Here's a pic of me after I got really high using my first vaporizer, a VaporGenie:

HEY LOOK EVERYONE ITS BOB SEGER

 

[vtac]

Lots of good points being made here, thanks @lwien. Sometimes opinions get stronger as pricetags get bigger, and vapes can be relatively big purchases especially for newcomers. I'm sure there is some fascinating psychology going on from the initial interest in a product to the research phase, purchase, and subsequent forming and sharing of opinions. In many cases strong opinions are formed before even using the product, and it's not unusual for people to want to believe they made the right decision. Confirmation bias can be a very powerful thing.

From a moderation standpoint the goal here is to keep things fun, informative, and manageable. Censorship and the suppression of information can be a big problem in online communities and you won't find that here. At the same time though, we expect members to abide by our Be Nice rules. There's a big difference between "This product is a piece of shit and so is anyone who likes it" and "I'm having/see these specific problems with this product".

Someone could say that technically we are more tolerant of positive feedback than criticism and that makes this a shill forum. I guess I can't argue with the first part, but I think we maintain a healthy balance, and I think they'd be missing the point.

 

[macbill]

We must also keep in mind that there is no "Holy Grail" of vaporizers. No one vaporizer can satisfy every taste, or situation just as no one car or computer is the best for everybody. I can't take huge dense hits, so that is less important to me when looking for a vape. Yet I own some pretty heavy hitting vapes: I just don't use them that way.

 

[t-dub]

Yet I own some pretty heavy hitting vapes: I just don't use them that way.

Which is a really cool point. That "excess" power can be put to constructive use, enabling new modes of medication administration.

 

[max]

Someone could say that technically we are more tolerant of positive feedback than criticism and that makes this a shill forum.

I think most forums that are primarily about products are skewed this way, and rightly so IMO. If we set FC standards for vapes very high and few passed our bar, as satisfactory, we'd really be viewed with suspicion; the forum would have an overall negative tone, and most people would probably move on, as it wouldn't be a fun place to post. The 'be nice' rule is #1 with us for a good reason, and it also applies to some degree to products and companies. While we tend to afford more protection to manufacturers who post here (since they're members and have the same rights as anyone else that registers), we also protect the fringe products and companies that produce the cheapies and rebrands/knockoffs (counterfeits are a different story). A big part of the reason for doing this is to maintain civility. Allowing members to verbally trash trashy products tends to give some of those same members reason to think they can carry that 'not nice' tone into other areas of the forum, where a lot of people will be irritated and offended. We certainly allow posts by members who are unhappy with a particular product, but we also insist that they find a way to get their point across without calling the company a bunch of crooks, and the product a POS. Those who are fans of a particular model, and those who dislike the same model, for whatever reason, are all expected to respect the other's opinion, and sometimes that means not posting exactly the way our emotions might dictate.

Just human nature I guess.

It absolutely is, and our goal is to end up with the better side of human nature, once the submit button is clicked. We won't always get it right, and some will complain from time to time, but that's human nature too.

 

[EverythingsHazy]

People definitely do get defensive when discussing the products they own, despite not being the inventor, but it isn't always out of nowhere. A lot of criticisms on cannabis forums come in the form of challenges, or boasting about how little herb one is using to get bigger clouds than you'll ever attain with whatever you just spend a month's salary on.

The only thing that really matters, is how the owner of a vape or piece likes that piece. If everyone else hates it, that doesn't make it any worse for the one who loves it.

However, it feels almost like if you got a new Christmas present, and your cousins, who you went to show it to, so excitedly, all shoot it down and say it was a waste of a gift. No real personal insult or threat, but it's a bubble burster. Nobody should want to be a bubble burster. So keep that in mind when offering constructive criticism and advice.

 

[ichibaneye]

There's an interesting dynamic that happens around here and at other sites that becomes really apparent and it's really pretty silly with the most recent examples here being the GrassHopper and the new S&B portables threads.

What happens is that those who are being exposed to this product and are considering it's validity in the marketplace will question just about everything about it, but then what happens, is that those who have already purchased it, or about to purchase it will take those questions and consider them an attack on their wisdom in making their purchase in the first place, IE, questioning their purchasing decision.

And then, being that they are taking the line of debate and questions personally, things begin to spin out of control.

To the mods........you may either want to sticky this within the rules or reword it as you see fit, but I think it would be a good thing to address this and put this in perspective so that "maybe" some of the stuff that happens in these threads can be avoided.

Just a thought............

I'd also like to add that some of the mods seem to play favorites and some are not very objective/critical thinkers or at least they don't present that they do at times. I however love this site and do agree bickering is for the sandbox.

Disclaimer: I attacked no one specific and this is an open and honest opinion based on observation.

 

[lwien]

I'd also like to add that some of the mods seem to play favorites and some are not very objective/critical thinkers or at least they don't present that they do at times. I however love this site and do agree bickering is for the sandbox.

Disclaimer: I attacked no one specific and this is an open and honest opinion based on observation.

Mods are human, man. They are not perfect, they have their faults and they make mistakes. The fact that not everyone are "objective/critical thinkers" will apply to ANY subset, be they members, manufacturers, doctors, lawyers, indian chiefs, etc, etc, so it comes as no surprise that this would also apply to mods as well, but to single them out and apply this characteristic to any of them, in my opinion, is a bit unfair in your implied viewpoint of them.

And as far as playing favorites goes, that's also a human trait for all of us. Do any of us like everyone the same? Do we all have the same amount of respect for everyone we come in contact with? Do we, who have children, vehemently state that we don't favor one child over another? Do we, as parents, make every attempt possible to ensure that none of our kids gets the feeling that we're playing favorites? Do we, as parents, sometimes fail?

These are guys and gals just trying to keep order in a very unorderly (sp) medium and in my opinion, I think they're doing a damn good job of it.

And now that I've brownnosed the fuck out of them, I want some goddamn cookies, like NOW.

 

[ichibaneye]

Mods are human, man. They are not perfect, they have their faults and they make mistakes. The fact that not everyone are "objective/critical thinkers" will apply to ANY subset, be they members, manufacturers, doctors, lawyers, indian chiefs, etc, etc, so it comes as no surprise that this would also apply to mods as well, but to single them out and apply this characteristic to any of them, in my opinion, is a bit unfair in your implied viewpoint of them.

I agree with some of your points and I'm not going to get into a back and forth. Members are also human and should not be singled out as well as distributors. Especially when all angles or sides to a situation have not been looked at or taken into account. I in no way just singled out just the mods. Yes, I mentioned mods but you know that was not the context of how I presented my initial feelings. Also you twisted my critical thinking points, my original statement eluded to that sometimes it seems that SOME mods may not show or demonstrate that they are using the skills I mentioned. It does not mean that they do not possess them. I respect many of them. Just because you see my current profile here and now does not mean I was not around here before for some time, let's just say a silent watcher of things back then. Thus my comment/opinion based on some specific observation. I can get all ... it's a matter of perspective .... on you but like some things you said is just a blanket statement. It is not unfair at all just because I don't think/share your viewpoint. It is time for people to pull em up and take ownership of their own actions, no excuses and stop pushing a belief on someone else and then because they do not agree or share the same opinion, badge it as callous, unfair or any of the likes. My opinion will not change I do appreciate all of the good PEOPLE because moderators are people too. I don't make excuses and a title does not give anyone more slack or reason to be biased or unfair. If you read any of my post since I have decided to start posting you may have a better idea on how objective and open minded I really am. I however do not and will not stand for unfair treatment of ANYONE and just pointed out something I have seen off and on here on FC. I would like to add that out of ALL of the forums that FC is the most professional so far, so kudos to FC! These are my final thoughts here on this thread. Thank you for your feedback also.

 

[syrupy]

IMO, FCers are the vaping elite. Time spent researching, watching vids, reading many threads. Probably much more time than the average vaper who just knows e-cigs. It's not a snob thing, there's just a lot of love and care here. All this creates an emotional investment.

Then there's the fact that vapes are still pretty expensive devices, and vapers that want multiple units, related equipment (VRE), glass tools are going to make a financial investment.

If a person has a big investment in something, it's easy to be identified with it. If I've spent hundreds on a vaping brand, it might be difficult to hear criticisms of others. I drop by with an occasional post on the GH thread. And I try to keep it light and easy because I know people have tied up money and time on the GH. It's easy to comment from the peanut gallery and forget the investment folks are making, dollar by dollar and post by post. So I try to cut slack to people's reactions.

 

[Quetzalcoatl]

The GH thread is a shitshow and I don't know why it hasn't just taken out back and put down a la Cera.

 

[pakalolo]

The GH thread is a shitshow and I don't know why it hasn't just taken out back and put down a la Cera.

That thread will be closed when the Grasshopper is in the hands of FC members. It might happen sooner, but not because of comments like this, and certainly not before the participants have a chance to get back on track. Incidentally, some might see this as breaking the rule against discussing moderator decisions.

 

[Beezleb]

Emotions are the greatest and weakest thing man has been cursed with. It often clouds and alters ones judgement. Take what someone writes and view if it has wisdom and merit or is fan based before taking that information to heart. Do not give advantage to any party by not doing that basic check otherwise you look to be used.

I have no idea just whats going on, don't care just passing through old haunts and speak generically, if it fits great if not, well f me hehe.

 

[lwien]

Woah..........Beez !!! I was wondering what happened to you. Glad to still see ya 'round.

One look at that avy, and I was like......

 

[momofthegoons]

Woah..........Beez !!! I was wondering what happened to you. Glad to still see ya 'round.

One look at that avy, and I was like......

I had the same reaction lwien, lol. Good to see you back Beez. And wiser words have never been spoken!

 

[CG420]

This is what I love about FC though. I can tell these are realistic working people, with a mind set to share factual information and it becomes a bit sensitive at times due to the love for a specific vaporizer but that's what gives me a fair insight on the development and success/failures respectfully. People just get riled up in emotions that sometimes makes it a waste of time to read if feelings included are overly projected. With that in mind, I wonder how forums today will change the forefront of community discussions. This is why I wake up everyday and check FC for news. The development in vaporizers (old, recent, and upcoming) has led me to believe that as an individual, whether powered by our thrive for advancing technologies or by affection for their respected vaporizers, we should leave out feelings and rely on empathy and advice to set the standards of how we treat each other through discussions in threads. Doing so, we can keep these discussions going without the need of helpful reminders from the Mods themselves and makes the rules easy/simple to comply with. Overtime, I have learned to treat each reply as their own but not at all always a fact but keeping in mind the consideration of it. Best way of being vocal on here is to challenge the replies of others and I sorta agree with that but feelings will usually take their place in words and I hope for the future of FC to be reliable on facts not feelings.

 

[CarolKing]

The Grasshopper thread sure gets heated at times, there's a lot of emotion going on. Folks seem to have a lot of hopes wrapped up in this vaporizer. I can understand to a certain extent, but most have not even received this vaporizer except for one FC member. I wish everyone well but sometimes you need to back away and divert your attention elsewhere. It's probably going to be weeks or even a couple months before most get their units. Folk's it's only a $200 vaporizer.

Some are too quick to jump down others throats or others are trying to put down the vaporizer in order to piss people off. it's turned into a hot button issue.