WTF Is Wrong With America And Gun Control?

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Detonator

Well-Known Member
all the criminals who want a gun have guns illegal or legal and don't care about gun laws so the only gun you can take away is a legal one from a non criminal who will just hand it over

couple years ago I had a kid pull a gun on me in my apt complex,,, as I back away into my apt I told him I was going to get my gun come back and kill him,,, guess what he ran away

only thing a criminal is afraid of is getting shot

part of me wishes I had been carrying illegal that day so I could have just killed him, part of me is glad I wasn't

oh and don't forget if you use cannabis everyday here in Calif you have to lie in order to get a gun legally which is more bullshit...
 

h3rbalist

I used to do drugs. I still do, but I used to, too
all the criminals who want a gun have guns illegal or legal and don't care about gun laws so the only gun you can take away is a legal one from a non criminal who will just hand it over

couple years ago I had a kid pull a gun on me in my apt complex,,, as I back away into my apt I told him I was going to get my gun come back and kill him,,, guess what he ran away

only thing a criminal is afraid of is getting shot

part of me wishes I had been carrying illegal that day so I could have just killed him, part of me is glad I wasn't

oh and don't forget if you use cannabis everyday here in Calif you have to lie in order to get a gun legally which is more bullshit...

What you actually proved here is that this criminal was scared of your words.

Why would you wish to murder a 'kid' and not just retreat and call the police?

The best defense in any situation are your legs and your voice.
 
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Detonator

Well-Known Member
What you actually proved here is that this criminal was scared of your words.

Why would you wish to murder a 'kid' and not just retreat and call the police?

The best defense in any situation are your legs and your voice.

sometimes the trash just has to be taken out, but I'm glad it wasn't me

eventually that "kid" who was 16-24 will stick his gun in someone else face, maybe shoot them

the Police are useless... que the NWA track
 

h3rbalist

I used to do drugs. I still do, but I used to, too
Or maybe it was a 15 year old with a BB gun standing in poor lighting and you blow his brains out.

:shrug:

Jesus, people make mistakes. Once that trigger's pulled, there's no going back.

Here are some statistics about why you are more likely to die by gun if you own a gun.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2759797/
 
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howie105

Well-Known Member
I want gun control that keeps illegal weapons out of the hands of criminals not controls that criminalizes peaceful citizens for owning guns. Unfortunately such a solution would be a long involved process that would leave lots of folks on both sides of the debate unhappy, so guns would remain a hot button issue to be played.
 

MeesterWood

Well-Known Member
You must not be familiar with the "free republic" mentality. Here in the states there is a certain mentality that equates gun control with nazis. Over at the free republic forums they are constantly calling for civil war and the second coming of christ.
 
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speedyg

Well-Known Member
More laws to control guns is not the answer. Our gov can't effectively and efficiently enforce the laws already in place . Incompetence and lack of accountability at all levels in gov, from the politicians that enact laws to the civil servants that manage enforcement is the problem.
 

frostyrod

Well-Known Member
Removing the bulk of illicit firearms is not going to happen...EVER. Criminals are not giving them up... Black market guns wouldnt go for thousands either. They dont now. You can get black market full autos without a class 3 or even writing your name down for well under a grand if you know where to look. There are stock piles of firearms all over this nation. Waiting for stuff just like we are talking about. Wouldnt change if the government tried to control or remove guns... More people would just be considered outlaws. Lots more.

Imagine if all criminals KNEW nobody, no good law abiding citizen anyway, walking down the road, or sleeping in their bed peacefully had a gun... What would stop them from taking whatever they wanted whenever they wanted?

The fear of death is the ONLY deterrent i trust. Criminals aint scared to go to jail these days. You ever been to jail? 3 hots and a cot with color tv and radios. Some have it worse on the street.

...The problem is... We dont live on the Disney channel. Magic is not real. And ALL firearms will never be able to be controlled. Its way too easy to make a zip gun. And being the only one without a gun when one is needed is a side of the fence i dont want to be on.


This last part... "You are not safer beacause you have a gun."

Im not sure how you figure this... A firearm has save my life on more than one occasion. I have also prevented a woman from being raped with a firearm. Im pretty sure she was safer because i was carrying then as well. Maybe YOU are not safer because in YOUR country nobody has a gun... But around here.... A gun wont save your life... But having one AND the proper training could!


The thing that you are missing is that what you are talking about just doesn't happen in countries that toughened their gun laws. Yes you can and it it is "very" possible to get rid of the bulk of illicit firearms, cities across America do it all the time with gun buy back programs. When it comes down to it, guns don't feed your family or help you buy the basic necessities of life, and if we increase the penalties to make it so harsh to own an illegal gun, I guarantee you that people will weight out their options and turn them in. It has happened all over Europe and Australia when they improved their Gun laws. And in these cities that implement gun buy back programs their gun violence rates plummet for YEARS. And yes the prices will be driven up because that is how the black market works... just like any other market, its supply and demand.

You can quote what you "think" will happen, but statistics prove you wrong every time. As far as getting a hold of a Class 3 weapon you are also wrong. "Class 3" is a legal government classification, these weapons are highly tracked, serialized, and you have to have a hell of a legitimate reason and expensive license to own one. They are near impossible to get a hold of and they do indeed cost usually tens of thousands of dollars. Just because some handy man in his garage installs a full auto drop in kit, or modifies a firing pin, or installs a pin or metal clip that will make a semi automatic gun fully automatic, doesn't make that guns a "Class 3" by legal definition. It makes it a highly federally illegal firearm that will give you a minimum of Years in prison which most people aren't going to mess around with carrying around with them. What i'm saying is that these guns are "not" on the streets. They are hidden in thug and rednecks back closets and will never see them because they don't want to spend the rest of their lives in prison by attempting to use them in a crime.

Your scenario about "criminals" finding out that nobody has guns, so they just decide to go on a crime spree and attack innocent non gun owning people...Just doesn't happen, it makes for good drama, the NRA loves to make people scared by saying it happens. But I wasn't trying to be an asshole when I said put up a shark net to protect your children. The Average american has more chance, (not even living close to the Ocean) of statistically getting attacked by a shark than they do of having a home invasion. And that statistic is even stronger in countries that have stronger gun laws, this stuff is just not happening, nor does it happen, and it shouldn't be included in any conversation about gun control. And the reason that more criminals wouldn't be scared about going to Jail or Prison, is because our laws on Guns are not harsh enough. I guarantee you that if you tell a criminal that they will get a life sentence for using a gun in a robbery that they are more likely to "not" get a gun or try to use it in that way. But you are right our "current" gun laws are not a good enough deterrent to crime, which is why we need harsher gun laws, you are only making my point.

Don't be silly and say that because our Men and Women fight for freedom that that is reason to keep gun laws the way they are. Yes there are countries like North Korea etc. That suck.. But there are lots of other countries like Australia, and Britain, that have free citizens that "Also" go and fight and die for their country and freedom, and they don't feel like they have to keep a gun under their pillow to defend their freedom and make them feel more secure in their Freedom and democracy. I have a DD214 too, with honorable discharge, It's not that rare, a large portion of the American Public has served in the Military, that shouldn't give you a blanket right to just "own" a gun cause you served it has nothing to do with protecting and honoring Freedom.

You are right for most "handy" Americans that own tools in their garage, it can be pretty easy to build a gun, i'm pretty handy that way, if it came down to it, I could go out with just the tools I have and make a pretty accurate and reliable gun. However if I knew i'd spend the rest of my life in Jail for doing it, the odds of me doing that are greatly reduced as are the Odds for most people that have that ability.

My country "is" the United States and my family is safer because I don't have guns lying around my house. I agree that in certain areas of our country you are more likely to hear about things like what you describe happening. But they are not happening because of illegal guns, they are happening because "legal" guns are so common and accepted that people think that they are viable solution to solve their problems, And in those States and towns where gun ownership is high, the rates of every other gun crime is high, like domestic shootings between husbands and wives, Children dying because they find a gun lying around, Family members getting shot because dad thinks its protecting his family to keep a gun under the bed, and when someone breaks in he ends up shooting his kid through the thin walls instead of the intruder, this happens all the time. You are far more likely and safer to defend your home from an intruder with an aluminum bat than you are a gun, because you know your house, and you aren't gonna accidentally shoot someone in your family in the heat of the moment. Even cops who are highly highly trained accidentally shoot people in a stressful situation all the time, so you think it's safe to make that your primary home defense strategy? I don't doubt your story that stopped someone from being raped by having a gun. You could have stopped that rape just as easily with a pipe, bat, or even by just beating the shit out of the asshole. However most of these "types" of crimes aren't happening from roaming illegal gun toting strangers. And i'd be very surprised if the rape that you stopped wasn't by someone you knew either family, friend or acquaintance, because statistically these are the people performing these crimes. Not wild roaming raping "mad Max road warrior" Criminals. And statistically speaking.... For every "one" guy that stops "one" crime by owning a handgun, doesn't balance out the 9 people that got shot in a church, or the 12 people that got shot in a movie theater, or "all" of the school shootings: 10 in Red Lake MN 2005, 33 at Virginia Tech 2007, 7 Oakland 2012, 28 in Newtown CT, 6 in Santa Monica CA 2013, 7 in Isla Vista CA 2013, and I wish to God that that was a complete listing it only highlights the most tragic not the ones that ran out of bullets, time, or opportunity.

I have no doubts that you are a great guy, that you love your country, and your family, that you have only best intentions and want the best for yourself and your way of life. 10 years ago I felt the same way. But I informed myself on the true picture of Gun ownership and gun crime. I looked at what happens in countries that get tough on Gun control and none of these "Fear" tactics happen, in "all" cases gun violence decreases and it's safer to live in those countries. Our Gun polices shouldn't be modeled after third world countries which is the countries you are pointing at with the biggest problems. They should be modeled after 1st world modern countries that don't want to see large swaths of their people massacred on a yearly basis. These things that you are talk about "Home Defense, Self Protection, Crime prevention" Are all NRA talking points and have nothing to do with Real gun and crime statistics. My wife works for a State Health department, and she daily researches Violent Crime, and all these crimes you talk about primarily happen due to "legal" guns owned by "responsible" gun owners, they aren't happening with random criminal strangers using blackmarket illegal guns. In the real world that is just not happening with any Statistical prominence. And if you did get rid of all Legal guns tomorrow, you may see one of these odd crimes pop up. but as Australia and the rest of the "Free" 1st world countries show they are very very rare and almost unheard of. So stop with the Fear mongering. Its mostly not real data you are trying to support.... Peace
 

HD Springer

Well-Known Member
One of the biggest problem with hot topics like this and many others is that people feel so strongly about their side of the issue that they will NEVER listen to the other side. You can see it in their responses.
I'm not of the mindset of creating new laws for ANYTHING. We need to enforce many of the laws we have now better.
I probably will never own a gun. I have kids in my house and I could never forgive myself if anything should happen.
 

CarolKing

Singer of songs and a vapor connoisseur
Can we be grown ups and have a civil conversation regarding an important issue that effects many people in the U.S? If you are getting too emotional back out of the conversation. Come on people a little self control.:doh:

edit
To be honest I am afraid of hand guns and don't want one in my house. I think if my husband insisted on a hand gun that is one thing I would put my foot down on. We always make decisions together but this one I feel so strongly about.

If we had one it would be locked up of course. In an emergency we wouldn't even have time to get it and unlock it. I also would be afraid that the gun would be taken from me if I was overpowered. I'm afraid I would freeze and wouldn't even be able to shoot one.

I realize a person would need gun classes so I guess you would get used to handling one. I don't want to but, that doesn't mean I am willing to take them from law abiding citizens that aren't crazy. I feel the licenses need to be renewed after so many years, so that the person will need to go through numerous background checks over their lifetime of owning a gun. I think that's the only way to keep the public safe just my opinion.:peace::2c:

@frostyrod - Thank you for your words below.:)
 
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frostyrod

Well-Known Member
I was addressing specific issues brought up in a post and made no directly inflammatory remarks. I know it's emotional and deep seated issue. However, I wanted to present some real world examples of what guns and removing guns in a society actually produce and not get caught up in the hype of "home Invasions, and protecting ourselves from a tyrannical government" nonsense. Rural gun crime isn't a result of criminals running around hair-kari with guns. It is primarily Law abiding gun owners going Rambo on their spouse, or the asshole that honked at them in the carpool lane. It is also a teenager getting bullied and coming home and blowing his head off with his fathers "home protection" device. Also Urban inner city crime is "still" not a result of a proliferation of illegal and blackmarket guns flooding the market, it is a result of children and families slipping through the cracks of poor implemented social programs, bad public policing polices where citizens can't even trust the men and women who are suppose to be protecting them and instead are terrorizing them, Not spending tax dollars to improve education and economic opportunities for poor neighborhoods. All of this stuff can be easily fixed, and the underlying issues like rampant crime, drug addiction, and gun violence will go away. You can call me a communist/Socialist/ etc. I don't care and it doesn't bother me.

However, going back to my original point... None of this conversation even really matters. The gun rights issue is so ingrained into US policy and the Civil Rights argument that at least in my life time I don't see any significant changes coming down. And as bad as crime and Mass shootings have become, sadly I still don't see a major shifting or change of policy on these issues. So for all of you dyed in the wool 2nd Amendment rights or Die still clutching your cold hard steel in your hands individuals... You don't have to worry or put up too big of a stink, because you are not likely to lose your gun rights any time soon. And in that regard I don't know why I wasted all my breath here cause at the end of the day I just need to Vape a trench and be a realist.... Peace!
 

Roth

Pining for the Mountains
Licenses that have to be renewed every few years like @CarolKing said are a very good idea, imo.

I think all guns should be tracked, that way its lineage can be traced down to try and plug the leak.

One thing that really needs to go, are "Gun Shows", and any other method of acquiring guns without the background check.

The over abundance of fire arms is what makes it so easy to obtain on the black market. If the supply goes down, so does the ease of acquisition.

Yes, some people will still be able to acquire black market guns, that's never going to completely disappear. However, as the difficulty of it rises, the number of gun related deaths drops.

America will never go down the "No Gun" path that other countries have taken, at least in my lifetime. I'd love it to happen, but it's just not realistic from where we are now.
 

Joel W.

Deplorable Basement Dweller
Accessory Maker
If we had one it would be locked up. In an emergency we wouldn't even have time to get it and unlock it. I also would be afraid that the gun would be taken from me if I was overpowered.
There is some tech out that can make guns safer now as they only let the person who owns the gun actually fire the weapon.

wiki said:
A personalized gun, or smart gun, is a concept firearm that is designed to reduce the misuse of firearms through the use of RFID chips or other proximity devices, fingerprint recognition, magnetic rings, or a microchip implant.

examples:
Metal Storm[edit]
Australian defense company Metal Storm made a prototype electronic 'smart' personalized handgun called the O'Dwyer VLe. It utilized biometric authorizing technology and was the world's first 100% electronic handgun. It also incorporated Metal Storm's patented 'stacked projectile' technology, which, in cohesion with the nature of the weapon system itself, meant that there was no moving parts, no separate magazine, no ammunition feed, and it outstripped conventional firing systems.[13]

Mossberg[edit]
According to Jonathan Mossberg, the CEO of iGun Technology Corporation, his company is working on a smart shotgun that uses magnetic spectrum tag technology, similar in function to RFID, which is embedded in a ring that a user must wear in order to fire the gun. A 2013 report by the National Institute of Justice stated that iGun's product "could be considered the first personalized firearm to go beyond a prototype to an actual commercializable or production-ready product."[14][15] Mossberg has trademarked the term "SmartGun".[16]

New Jersey Institute of Technology[edit]
A current prototype personalized gun by New Jersey Institute of Technology (NJIT) relies on biometric sensors in the grip and trigger that can track a gun owner’s hand size, strength, and Dynamic grip style also known as (DGR) Dynamic Grip Recognition. The gun is programmed to recognize only the owner or anyone whom the owner wishes to authorize. One of the major projects involves the NJIT team, which claims the prototype identifies gun owners with 90% accuracy.[17]

Colt[edit]
Initial prototypes produced by Colt's Manufacturing Company involved the intended user wearing a bracelet that emitted a radio signal that would activate a mechanism inside the pistol to allow the handgun to be fired. The project was apparently scrapped over concerns of the batteries in the bracelet and the pistol failing.[18]

TriggerSmart[edit]
Patrick O'Shaughnessy, owner of the Irish company Triggersmart, has patented and achieved a working prototype of a personalized gun in 2012 that works using radio-frequency identification (RFID) technology.[19] TriggerSmart's Robert McNamara has spoken with US Attorney General, Eric Holder, at the White House and he and O'Shaughnessy met with and discussed smart guns with the United Nations in Berlin and New York. The NIJ featured TriggerSmart when it issued its report on Smart Guns in 2013.[14][20]

BIOMAC[edit]
In May 2014 BBC News reported that Biomac, a US and Austrian company, was working on a firearm system that uses optical sensors to measure the biometric data below a user's skin in order to determine whether the individual holding the gun is the rightful owner of the weapon. Such a weapon would not fire if the sensors do not recognize the biometric data of one of its authorized user or users. The company also stated that it could also retro-fit older weapons to employ the this technology. However, the report highlighted the fact that RFID tags can be easily hacked, and that fingerprint scanners can be easily compromised, though it is unclear whether such breaches would work on smart guns.[21]

Armatix[edit]
A German company, Armatix, has developed the Armatix iP1 pistol, which comes with a special wrist watch which uses radio frequencies to identify the user.[15][22]

Innovation Initiative[edit]
Sandy Hook Promise, a group of parents of the Sandy Hook massacre, have launched an Innovation Initiative with members of the Silicon Valley technology community. This initiative will advocate for providing breakthroughs in new gun technology by providing grant and prize moneys.[23]

Ægen Technologies[edit]
Kai Kloepfer, a high school student and founder of the company, has a working prototype that uses a fingerprint sensor to unlock the firearms safety. It can be programed to register a range of fingerprints so that the gun would be able to be used by all the members of a police force. This prototype also promises to reduce risk of accidental shootings.[24]

The smart gun is supposed to:

  • Reduce the likelihood of unintentional injuries to children
  • Preventing teenage suicides and homicides.
  • Limit the violent acts committed by criminals using stolen guns.
  • Protect law enforcement officers from criminals grabbing their firearms during a struggle.
If battery failure occurs one of two things can happen:

  • For civilian use, the gun can be set to not fire.
  • For law enforcement and military use, the safety system will be bypassed, and the gun will function like a normal firearm.
I'd be willing trade in my old gun for a new smart gun!
 

hd_rider

Well-Known Member
I very much like the "smart gun" approach. But to ask a question:

If adequate and reliable "smart gun" retrofit kits are readily available AND the government made it a requirement for all registered firearms AND those retrofit kits were provided at the government's expense, would you voluntarily take your gun(s) to a local gun store for installation of that kit?

Why or why not?

Just a hypothetical question.
 

Joel W.

Deplorable Basement Dweller
Accessory Maker
would you voluntarily take your gun(s) to a local gun store for installation of that kit?
Why or why not?
Just a hypothetical question.

The outlaw in me does not like the required part of that, but the father in me would for a safety standpoint I think. I am not as passionate about my guns as I used to be and the thought of them hurting someone i love or falling into the wrong hands scares me..
 

sasNW

Well-Known Member
I very much like the "smart gun" approach. But to ask a question:

If adequate and reliable "smart gun" retrofit kits are readily available AND the government made it a requirement for all registered firearms AND those retrofit kits were provided at the government's expense, would you voluntarily take your gun(s) to a local gun store for installation of that kit?

Why or why not?

Just a hypothetical question.

I definitely like the idea, but to be honest I know I would not. In my house it is just me and the wife, so we have no worries about children getting their hands on anything. My wife has taken classes and is very comfortable handling a hand gun.

For me personally, in my situation I don't like the idea of another part of a gun that could fail should I ever need to use it. I realize I will most likely never need too, but I don't even have a safety on my home defense handgun for the same reason. I realize many of you will think that is stupid, but in the one in a million chance my wife needs to defend herself I would like to make it as easy as possible. I'm well aware that an intruder would not need a gun to harm my wife, she is 110lbs and not athletic in the slightest. God forbid, but if anyone was ever close enough to disarm her then she has already lost and a non firing gun would not help. Hence all the classes I've put her through, she is from Seoul and hated guns when we first met, but now she respects them and loves going on a hiking/shooting day.

I definitely like the technology and can see why many people would do this though

Anyone touching my guns must be well trained at never touching the trigger unless it's pointed at something they are ready to shoot.

I would absolutely love to see laws on illegal guns so strict that it makes criminals think twice about picking one up. But I would never be okay with guns being taken from people like myself.
 

flotntoke

thoroughly vaped
More laws to control guns is not the answer. Our gov can't effectively and efficiently enforce the laws already in place . Incompetence and lack of accountability at all levels in gov, from the politicians that enact laws to the civil servants that manage enforcement is the problem.

Just catching up on all of this and not picking on you @speedyg , just the post I hit reply on.

True that our government can't or won't enforce all the laws on the books - but some of those laws need to be updated, some need to be thrown out, and we certainly need a few that aren't even there.

Before I even get there.... let's be clear about the 2nd Amendment. It, itself, doesn't give anyone the right to own a gun other than as part of a "regulated militia". The Supreme Court has extended it to personal gun ownership rights. But, let's be honest here... there was no need for a specific legal right to own a gun in the late 18th century in this country. In some colonies (and later states) you were REQUIRED to own a weapon. However, as most things weaponry has advanced quite a bit since then. This is why we have and need further restrictions - like most of us can't own a large machine gun (like an M-60) or a rocket launcher.

Just one of the groups of laws that need to be tightened up are those for straw purchasers. The NRA fights these initiatives tooth and nail though it is legal in many states to purchase many firearms in the same month. I get there are collectors and they should be able to do their thing (with extensive registration and recording), but how many Glocks - or other semi-auto hand guns does one person really need? Not many. But it is far too easy to by 10 a month at $500 - 600 a piece, then go to your nearest high crime area and sell them to people who can't legally purchase one for twice as much.

Gun show regulations need to be tightened up as well. How ridiculous is it that someone who is outside of the regular gun sale world can sell firearms without many of the restrictions of professional dealers - often set up in the next booth at a show??

Much more that could be discussed on either of these issues and others, but wanted to put at least these points out here to contribute to the discussion.
 
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gangababa

Well-Known Member
The USA problem of the gun will not be solved until the 'gun' ceases to be an object of veneration, a religious item to some.
In places around America, the gun is considered to be as sacred as a fetus, and can not be destroyed.
This is insanity.

Arizona Law: Guns From Buybacks Can't Be Destroyed

I will say this and then not return to this thread. I will not defend these comments. They are my truth and if you disagree, "tatastu"! To those who desire, defend, display own, use (etc) guns, JUST STOP!
Without so-called responsible gun owners,manufacturers and organizations, where would the criminals be getting their guns? One dead women in California, one Mexican in trouble, one insane USA politico using this news to manifest hatred----
----and too little discussion of the fact that the death instrument was stolen from a federal agents car (the supposed good guy). GOOD GRIEF!


The gun is a "Satan". It is a stumbling block. It causes insanity. Not every individual will succumb to the basest behavior of the insane before a normal, peaceful passing from this plane. But everyone whose faith is in the gun is not putting faith in their God. Every mass murderer was seen as reasonably normal the day before.
The depth of attachment in many to an object whose sole purpose is killing*, shows how the disease disables dialog.


*Hunting is clearly killing
*Target shooting is practice for not missing the kill
*Carrying for defense is preparing to kill (if necessary)
*Open carry for defense is actually an offensive threat to kill
*Collecting is a hobby of appreciation for a killing tool
*2nd Amendment was southern states' demand so they could keep their militias for controlling slaves.

Flame on! I'd rather choose to die (an unavoidable end for all) than to choose to kill (a totally avoidable karma).

 
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CarolKing

Singer of songs and a vapor connoisseur
Then something needs to change with our government and how laws are implemented. That young guy who killed those 9 people should not have had a weapon but I suppose he would have found a way to kill if he was determined to take out as many lives as possible.

One of the laws that need to change is how many crazy people are walking around the streets. It's really hard to get a loved one committed for hospitalization if they are mentally disturbed. How about how hard it is to get help when a parent has a crazy teenager? That changed during the Reagon administration when it became more difficult to have relatives committed. I suppose it had to do with cutting social services.

When September rolls around again we will probably see school shootings, I hope not too many children will be killed. It's like we have become used to this since the Columbine shootings (massacre) in Colorado.

Our schools in the area are changing how they are built because of all the shootings. We need to protect the students and staff from crazy people. They are being built with the whole school included in a single building. This has really become a nightmare for the schools.
 
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flotntoke

thoroughly vaped
....Our schools in the area are changing how they are built because of all the shootings. We need to protect the students and staff from crazy people. This has really become a nightmare for the schools.

And, churches. And, malls. And, bars. And, for ex-girlfriends/boyfriends/wives and their families. And, for minority kids on their way home from the store. And, being on the street in many parts of many cities after dark. And, for law enforcement (not all of them are bad people - most certainly don't deserve to be killed at work!). And, families of people who aren't mentally stable. I could go on, but think everyone gets the point. We're not safe. And, while owning a gun and carrying it yourself may make you feel safer, it seldom works out like that.
 

howie105

Well-Known Member
Then something needs to change with our government and how laws are implemented. That young guy who killed those 9 people should not have had a weapon but I suppose he would have found a way to kill if he was determined to take out as many lives as possible.

One of the laws that need to change is how many crazy people are walking around the streets. It's really hard to get a loved one committed for hospitalization if they are mentally disturbed. How about how hard it is to get help when a parent has a crazy teenager? That changed during the Reagon administration when it became more difficult to have relatives committed. I suppose it had to do with cutting social services.

When September rolls around again we will probably see a school shooting, I hope not too many children will be killed. It's like we have become used to this since Columbine shootings in Colorado.

Our schools in the area are changing how they are built because of all the shootings. We need to protect the students and staff from crazy people. This has really become a nightmare for the schools.

Too many folks who need care are relegated to jails and prisons where they are on court ordered drug regiments. Jails and prisons shared with folks on self prescribed drug regiments, is it just me or is there something weird about this picture.
 

OF

Well-Known Member
I don't have the answers - I would like to see less fatalities associated with guns - just putting it out there.

I think we all would like less death and fear, no matter what tool is involved?

There is, I think, actually an answer here. It's one those emotionally sold on 'the obvious truth' won't consider and those 'in the know' already know. It's counter intuitive. The guy considered my many to be 'top dog' in the serious discussion is now on the third addition of his tome on the subject:
http://www.amazon.com/More-Guns-Les...36750659&sr=8-1&keywords=more+guns+less+crime

Yes, the key is actually more guns in the hands of good guys it seems. Makes being a bad guy a worse career choice. Predictors have to stay healthy and in business to survive. A lion with a broken paw starves. A guy who makes a living robbing folks has a serious problem if shot.

This is not idle speculation and anecdotal stories, Lott is a SERIOUS Statistician, his 'stuff' is published and peer reviewed. Very hard to dispute (although many have tried). Consider mass shootings take place in 'gun free zones'. Always. Consider what cities have the worst street crime, and which have the toughest gun laws......notice the lists match? Read Lott if you want to know what happens if you back off on the restrictions (it's not what the Brady Bunch says will happen).

Widespread concealed gun permits stopped a nasty trend of raping college women in Florida a while back, the "Gunshine State" warnings of wanton shootings in the streets never happened, but the rapists decided the risk was getting too high. Bad guys admitted targeting out of state plates.

Not at easy topic for sure, but FACTS are available. Lott boils down the FBI stats, you can get them direct and see for yourself.

One final thought, I question the morality of disarming the poor and defenseless. To a single mother in the inner city with a family to protect and police protection next to useless life is different than to the affluent in 'safe neighborhoods'. Who am I to tell her how to best protect her family? All I ask is she be responsible with the security of the gun and is careful who she shoots. She (and her childern) deserve "Freedom from Fear", same as you and I. FDR got that much right?

"Foxes fear rabbits with long claws".......or so the German folks say.

OF
 

WoodVillain

Backwoods Rated
I think we all would like less death and fear, no matter what tool is involved?

There is, I think, actually an answer here. It's one those emotionally sold on 'the obvious truth' won't consider and those 'in the know' already know. It's counter intuitive. The guy considered my many to be 'top dog' in the serious discussion is now on the third addition of his tome on the subject:
http://www.amazon.com/More-Guns-Les...36750659&sr=8-1&keywords=more+guns+less+crime

Yes, the key is actually more guns in the hands of good guys it seems. Makes being a bad guy a worse career choice. Predictors have to stay healthy and in business to survive. A lion with a broken paw starves. A guy who makes a living robbing folks has a serious problem if shot.

This is not idle speculation and anecdotal stories, Lott is a SERIOUS Statistician, his 'stuff' is published and peer reviewed. Very hard to dispute (although many have tried). Consider mass shootings take place in 'gun free zones'. Always. Consider what cities have the worst street crime, and which have the toughest gun laws......notice the lists match? Read Lott if you want to know what happens if you back off on the restrictions (it's not what the Brady Bunch says will happen).

Widespread concealed gun permits stopped a nasty trend of raping college women in Florida a while back, the "Gunshine State" warnings of wanton shootings in the streets never happened, but the rapists decided the risk was getting too high. Bad guys admitted targeting out of state plates.

Not at easy topic for sure, but FACTS are available. Lott boils down the FBI stats, you can get them direct and see for yourself.

One final thought, I question the morality of disarming the poor and defenseless. To a single mother in the inner city with a family to protect and police protection next to useless life is different than to the affluent in 'safe neighborhoods'. Who am I to tell her how to best protect her family? All I ask is she be responsible with the security of the gun and is careful who she shoots. She (and her childern) deserve "Freedom from Fear", same as you and I. FDR got that much right?

"Foxes fear rabbits with long claws".......or so the German folks say.

OF

I would like this post 10 times if it let me. :tup:
 
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