WTF does this even mean??

[Snappo]

My not-so-humble opinion of that wiki page is that it's corporate-vetted bullshit.
I see no reason to add a neurotoxin to my food at all, even in "moderation".
It sounds like you're not as sensitive to msg as many others are, and that's great for you. For myself there is no reasonable amount, because every time I eat food with it added to it, it makes me physically miserable.

If you investigate alternative sources of information, the fears that people have are not based on ignorance. In fact I would say that it isn't fear, but information and experience that has led people to want food without chemical additives, especially a neurotoxin that is labeled as natural such as msg. I know it occurs in some food naturally and that's fine, just don't dump it into mine as a toxic chemically-equivalent additive.

All the articles on this page are pretty well-researched with citations:
http://www.naturalnews.com/MSG.html

As a youngster I was violently reactive to any restaurant dishes that contained MSG, particularly those at our favorite Chinese restaurant. The effect felt muscular - a tightening and somewhat paralyzing, along with other sensations that felt sickening. I have apparently outgrown those symptoms, but the experience woke me up to the harmful chemistry contained in our trusted foods. We are the guinea pigs of our societies on the front end, and the consumers on the back end.

 

[Vicki]

As a youngster I was violently reactive to any restaurant dishes that contained MSG, particularly those at our favorite Chinese restaurant. The effect felt muscular - a tightening and somewhat paralyzing, along with other sensations that felt sickening. I have apparently outgrown those symptoms, but the experience woke me up to the harmful chemistry contained in our trusted foods. We are the guinea pigs of our societies on the front end, and the consumers on the back end.

I used to have the same reaction to MSG. It was a horrible feeling. It has subsided in me as well.

 

[basement farmer]

My not-so-humble opinion of that wiki page is that it's corporate-vetted bullshit.
I see no reason to add a neurotoxin to my food at all, even in "moderation".
It sounds like you're not as sensitive to msg as many others are, and that's great for you. For myself there is no reasonable amount, because every time I eat food with it added to it, it makes me physically miserable.

If you investigate alternative sources of information, the fears that people have are not based on ignorance. In fact I would say that it isn't fear, but information and experience that has led people to want food without chemical additives, especially a neurotoxin that is labeled as natural such as msg. I know it occurs in some food naturally and that's fine, just don't dump it into mine as a toxic chemically-equivalent additive.

All the articles on this page are pretty well-researched with citations:
http://www.naturalnews.com/MSG.html

I'm not going argue over the matter or defend the use of MSG (trust me. I'm not that passionate about it), but cruising through the sources for the articles in the natural news website, very few of them cite any scientific journal articles. Just sayin'....

I did find this Mayo Clinic link sourced on both the wiki page and this naturalnews.com article http://www.naturalnews.com/041984_MSG_toxic_foods_side_effects.html: http://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-l...ert-answers/monosodium-glutamate/faq-20058196 So I guess they aren't totally at odds with each other.

But by all means though, if something makes you ill when you eat it you should avoid it. I personally don't have that issue in this case.

 

[Snappo]

I'm not going argue over the matter or defend the use of MSG (trust me. I'm not that passionate about it), but cruising through the sources for the articles in the natural news website, very few of them cite any scientific journal articles. Just sayin'....

I did find this Mayo Clinic link sourced on both the wiki page and this naturalnews.com article http://www.naturalnews.com/041984_MSG_toxic_foods_side_effects.html: http://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-l...ert-answers/monosodium-glutamate/faq-20058196 So I guess they aren't totally at odds with each other.

But by all means though, if something makes you ill when you eat it you should avoid it. I personally don't have that issue in this case.

Thanks for the info! Gotta say though, every single time I ate at that favorite restaurant and ordered the same dish ( because I liked it), I got the very same severe symptoms associated with the commonly known ailment "Chinese Restaurant Syndrome". There is no doubt in my mind, or body, that MSG was the cause. Science and research be damned!

 

[basement farmer]

Vaping tobacco is supposed to be safe, right? They say it does taste a lot better vaped. Might have to try it myself to see.

Now nicotine is some scary stuff (my apologies for throwing down the wikipedia card so much...)

Use as an insecticide
Tobacco was introduced to Europe in 1559, and by the late 17th century, it was used not only for smoking but also as an insecticide. After World War II, over 2,500 tons of nicotine insecticide (waste from the tobacco industry) were used worldwide, but by the 1980s the use of nicotine insecticide had declined below 200 tons. This was due to the availability of other insecticides that are cheaper and less harmful to mammals.[4]

Currently, nicotine, even in the form of tobacco dust, is prohibited as a pesticide for organic farming in the United States.
In 2008, the EPA received a request, from the registrant, to cancel the registration of the last nicotine pesticide registered in the United States. This request was granted, and since 1 January 2014, this pesticide has not been available for sale.

I like the part about cheaper and less harmful insecticides

and from T3DB:

Nicotine is highly toxic alkaloid found in the nightshade family of plants (Solanaceae)

Nicotine is highly toxic alkaloid. It is the prototypical agonist at nicotinic cholinergic receptors where it dramatically stimulates neurons and ultimately blocks synaptic transmission

The facts apparently aren't enough of a deterrent to stop people from habitually consuming it

Thanks for the info! Gotta say though, every single time I ate at that favorite restaurant and ordered the same dish ( because I liked it), I got the very same severe symptoms associated with the commonly known ailment "Chinese Restaurant Syndrome". There is no doubt in my mind, or body, that MSG was the cause. Science and research be damned!

Personally I think there is enough anecdotal evidence to convince me that there are some people who really can't tolerate it as a food product, so you won't see me calling BS on the topic. However & IMO, there are scarier things out there to be concerned about. I also think that we, as consumers can partly to blame ourselves for it being there. Manufacturers put the ingredients in the food that are there because we like it that way...it adds flavor, or texture, keeps it from oxidizing, etc. etc.

I guess my point, if I have one, is that there are thousands of compounds we ingest every day that are toxic if taken in high enough doses, yet as a society we tend to not care or notice them unless it's brought to our attention (often thru media sources who have agendas of their own).

Here's an excellent source of information regarding every type of toxin you could ever care to know about: http://www.t3db.org/toxins?page=2 peruse the browse feature for giggles.

Complications associated with lifestyle risk factors (obesity or smoking for example) are greater killers than any food additive. The facts are irrefutable but far less attention grabbing.

Thank God for first world problems eh?

 

[grokit]

Imo the best (least harmful) delivery system for nicotine is also the oldest, in the form of cured shisha tobacco consumed through a traditional hookah (which is basically a waterpipe that vaporizes).

 

[mestizo]

I always wonder why people in old films (70's and older) and tv shows of the same era look so slim, fast forward to the 90's and on, and you'll see a substantial weight gain in most of the population.
Why is that? Is it because we have adopted a more sedimentary lifestyle, or all the preservatives, and added chemicals, or both?

 

[llamaman001]

Yo dawg, lemme put some natural flavor on your natural flavor in your natural flavor so we can pimp your flavor.

 

[lwien]

I always wonder why people in old films (70's .....) and tv shows of the same era look so slim, fast forward to the 90's and on, and you'll see a substantial weight gain in most of the population.

Ok, now you just made me feel like an old fart. Fuck you !!!

But to answer your question, it's due to all the coke we snorted and cigs we smoked.....

 

[grokit]

Damn, I thought is was due to the wider aspect ratios of today's displays

 

[basement farmer]

I always wonder why people in old films (70's and older) and tv shows of the same era look so slim, fast forward to the 90's and on, and you'll see a substantial weight gain in most of the population.
Why is that? Is it because we have adopted a more sedimentary lifestyle, or all the preservatives, and added chemicals, or both?

The junk food aisles were much smaller back then. Think about it though. Next time you're in a supermarket, make a mental note of how much shelf space is devoted to chips, soda and other high fat & sugar crap compared to food with actual nutrition.

There's no nefariousness going on, we're just a bunch of fat asses who vote for what's available via our spending.

How many Oreo flavors do you suppose they sold back in the 70's?

 

[Enchantre]

I always wonder why people in old films (70's and older) and tv shows of the same era look so slim, fast forward to the 90's and on, and you'll see a substantial weight gain in most of the population.
Why is that? Is it because we have adopted a more sedimentary lifestyle, or all the preservatives, and added chemicals, or both?

Wheat.
GMO corn.
GMO soy.
CAFO meat/dairy.
PUFAs in processed foods.

Suggested reading "Wheat Belly", & "The Primal Blueprint"

 

[arf777]

I avoid MSG like the plague - it's not banned in the UK as it is in some other countries - if you get that immediate mouth-watering, I need more of this response to snacks or fast foods - you can almost guarantee that MSG is the cause - horrible stuff!

So do you not eat soy sauce, tamari, black soy beans and the like? Any fermented soy product is full of MSG "naturally" - that is, it is not added, it occurs on its own - unless someone goes out of their way to extract it. I never add MSG itself to anything, but I certainly eat fermented soy, and though I have salt issues they do not make me ill. Food with pure MSG dumped in it is something else though.

BTW - MSG also "naturally" occurs in tomatoes, some meats, and other places. Doesn't do harm in those foods. Like with sugars, it is when the chemical is concentrated and added to foods that it is harmful. Like niacin toxicity from over-fortified cereal.

 

[Seren]

Ok, so maybe I should have been more specific - I avoid added MSG like the plague!

 

[tiukauleh]

I used to have the same reaction to MSG. It was a horrible feeling. It has subsided in me as well.

for others that i hear of, their sensitivity to MSG-laced food increases as they age, especially older people maybe because (my personal theory) their body's ability to maintain resistance gets less. for me, when i accidentally consume some MSG-laced food outside, i get ultra-thristy and dry-mouth like. but funny thing is drinking some coca-cola gives almost instant relief.

 

[arf777]

for others that i hear of, their sensitivity to MSG-laced food increases as they age, especially older people maybe because (my personal theory) their body's ability to maintain resistance gets less. for me, when i accidentally consume some MSG-laced food outside, i get ultra-thristy and dry-mouth like. but funny thing is drinking some coca-cola gives almost instant relief.

I used to think I had this issue.

But after extensive research and discussions with numerous doctors, it turned out to be a sodium problem, not MSG per se. Study after study have found no actual affect of MSG on the vast majority of human beings who do not otherwise have sodium level issues or allergies (here's one famous review of the literature http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/...ionid=C665C8E7164D8B8A4CA9888AA59E8A0E.f01t01).

NOTE - I still do not put MSG in or on food, but when eating the foods it "naturally" occurs in, no problem.

But if you are unlucky enough to be one of the ~1% of the population who is allergic to glutamate that is something else. Like the difference between having Celiac disease and avoiding gluten because you think you're sensitive to it. I have a sister with Celiac, and she gets REALLY ill from gluten. While my brother just thinks he has gluten intolerance (he also won't eat tomatoes or potatoes because they are nightshades - wtf). No comparison in what happens to them if/when they eat wheat. He claims subjective nausea. She has measurable, objective problems- visible bloating, fever, face flushed, audible peristalsis and gas.

The best test of this is good tamari or soy sauce. If those do not make you ill in small amounts, then it is likely not an MSG problem but a problem with sodium levels. If they do make you ill, it is likely a glutamate allergy, a full-blown food allergy.

 

[tiukauleh]

the article you listed was published in 2006, any updates? i haven't read study after study that "no actual affect of MSG on the vast majority of human beings" but i have read studies saying that msg causes this and that too like here http://www.phoblvd.com/causes-of-monosodium-glutamate-msg-and-why-we-don’t-add-msg-to-our-food/

and sodium is salt, right? anyway, from my own anecdotal evidence, i have no reaction with salty food or salt except i may not like the taste but msg-laced, i can taste the difference between too salty vs too-much MSG (and i can do a blind test of salt vs msg) and and i get the effects almost immediately. same for some others that i know of.

 

[CarolKing]

It's basically impossible to tell from a label what is in natural flavors unless the company has specified it on the label. A few of the vegetarian & vegan-oriented companies are doing this now, but the overwhelming majority of food manufacturers do not.

Why do companies hide ingredients under "natural flavors"? It's considered a way of preserving the product's identity & uniqueness. Sort of like a "secret recipe" - they worry that if people knew what the flavorings were, then someone would be able to duplicate their product.

 

[Radio]

Sounds like a suspicious marketing gimmick to (not-so) subliminally expose customers to the word NATURAL twice in one hit

ITS NATURAL! as perfectly natural and pure as this image

 

[arf777]

Sounds like a suspicious marketing gimmick to (not-so) subliminally expose customers to the word NATURAL twice in one hit

ITS NATURAL! as perfectly natural and pure as this image

Personally it bothers me less than the way "organic" is thrown around. Since that really just means "contains carbon", which is true of everything we eat.

tiukauleh- I do not have a more recent reference than that, as I no longer work in the food field. But please note the linked article is a lit review of multiple other studies, not an isolated study. Even the original author who kicked off the concept of the "Chinese food effect" (where the anti-MSG thing first came from) has never endorsed MSG as the culprit, he just listed it as a possibility in his original article. Though like with sugars, it still isn't a good thing that we're extracting this stuff from where it occurs on its own (soy usually) and then dumping way more of it in foods than you'd normally find in any plant. Even my doctors who reject the idea of widespread MSG issues do not approve of its overuse.

I do not deny that some folks truly are glutamate intolerant - sounds like you might be. But literally 99% of the species is not. Most people who feel sick after eating MSG heavy foods are reacting to the sodium content. Or to the other odd salts often used with MSG, like disodium guanylate (which is less safe). Not all, but most.