Will man ever overcome nationalism?

[caseball2051]

We are still living in the very early period of mans existence. modern man has only been around for a few thousand years. during this time period nationalism and religion have played a large role in our societies (good and bad)

do you think that eventually, the world will cooperate as one working unit, rather than nations of 170+? There will eventually be an even that will change the course of mankind that will require global cooperation. Whether it be an asteroid impact, some kind of solar storm or some other potentially semi global disaster.

do you think well be able to do it? will we do it? should we do it? does the survival of the fittest apply in that event? when are we going to start whats doing the best for the race, rather than whats economical. or good for certain countries?


just something that was running through my head.

 

[Pappy]

I don't mean to be glib but I've been ducking and covering since 1955. A dirty bomb, North Korea, who knows? When it does hit, that's when mankind will duck and cover in unison.

 

[caseball2051]

My parents werent born when you started ducking! bet that makes you feel old

I guess I mean to ask, when will we start acting to benefit the whole human race, rather than individuals or groups of individuals.

Im talking abotu being earthlings rather than Americans or Mexicans.

 

[Nosferatu]

I wish all countries would be equal and follow one rule, but it will probably never happen, simply because the continents are physically split and so far away from each other. I know we have technology but how can one really control a separate piece of land mass so far away. Their own workers would slowly start wanting to break from their rule once they start thinking of how they could do things their way.

I could see there being only 1 government per continent at most in the far future, and that would be a great start. Does the USA really need to be separate from Canada and even Mexico? They could all be evened out then bettered if they joined, taking the best of each and dropping the rest. But this will probably never happen. Maybe in a 1000 years when everybody is finally using cannabis they will gain the brainpower to see there are more important things then money.

 

[lwien]

I guess I mean to ask, when will we start acting to benefit the whole human race, rather than individuals or groups of individuals.

It ain't gonna happen. It's not in our DNA. We're not designed that way. It would literally need to be bred out of us.

A catastrophic event may bring us all together, but only until we woke up and realized who we are and then it's back to business as usual.

 

[Pappy]

My parents werent born when you started ducking! bet that makes you feel old

I'd wager I feel younger than most on this board.

Age is a number and mine is unlisted!

 

[Beezleb]

Life is not fair, blame nature.

 

[fidget]

It ain't gonna happen. It's not in our DNA. We're not designed that way. It would literally need to be bred out of us.

Don't think I can agree with you there lwien.

Kin selection and reciprocal altruism show if anything that it is hardwired in and the more civilised we've become the more its being conditioned out of us.
By us I mean western consumer driven civilisation.




edit: sounds a bit pseuds cornerish.

 

[lwien]

edit: sounds a bit pseuds cornerish.

Pseuds cornerish? What the...........??

 

[reece]

edit: sounds a bit pseuds cornerish.

Pseuds cornerish? What the...........??

You don't know about the Irish/Russian philosopher Pseuds O'Cornerishnikov?

 

[Pappy]

You don't know about the Irish/Russian philosopher Pseuds O'Cornerishnikov?

RIP! He just died.

 

[lwien]

edit: sounds a bit pseuds cornerish.

Pseuds cornerish? What the...........??

You don't know about the Irish/Russian philosopher Pseuds O'Cornerishnikov?

Nope. Thought it might be some kind of game hen.

 

[fidget]

edit: sounds a bit pseuds cornerish.

Pseuds cornerish? What the...........??

http://www.compulink.co.uk/~stevemann/pseuds.htm

 

[crawdad]

it seems if you look into civilizations that worked well for the people and the environment and also have outlasted others you tend to see communal living in small groups. i also agree that this nationalism is a conditioning on our species that imho began with greed, selfishness and putting a higher standard on convenience versus quality of life. in some aspects id agree good intentions were at play, but our tendency to follow the path of least resistance took over somewhere along the way and here we are.

i feel the only way back to a simpler human life is if you just do it yourself and not give a flip if the entire world follows or what it would take for them.

i might be on a tangent here but i feel a big part of the issue of this is people no longer thinking much for themselves, and i don't include "i decided on buying *this* cellphone/house/car/insurance policy vs *that* one" much of a thinking process. many people live out their lives giving little thought to why they live the way they do.

 

[Beezleb]

vape on crawdad. we have similar views on that.

 

[lwien]

i also agree that this nationalism is a conditioning on our species that imho began with greed, selfishness and putting a higher standard on convenience versus quality of life.

And when do you believe this all started?

 

[crawdad]

not convinced it matters. no point thinking we might be able to prevent this state of mankind if ever its pushed back or reversed some how.

if i had to guess id say the dawn of the industrial age. this was a time when our means of existence (food, shelter, etc) was being burdened less on the individual and (imho) gave our mind time to wonder and wander lazily into various man made institutions such as government, religions, money, etc. its been a downward spiral in terms of humanity and environment in many ways yet i do not ignore nor shun the advances in knowledge gained by the progress of science and technology.

once our survival was secured with technology we looked on to not just living or surviving but being happy and enjoying ourselves, and i think that has led us to the life many of us live today. many dont think about what really sustains us and makes up what is "our life". our countries, our religions, our tv, etc is a reality we have created. we have evolved from producers to consumers and this isolation from self sufficiency has resulted in lack of self worth and we grasp onto various things to make up for it.

i think i rambled a bit there, hope i didn't garble my thoughts too much!

 

[lwien]

if i had to guess id say the dawn of the industrial age.

See, I disagree with that. I think it happened wayyyyyy before then. When man lived in caves, they fought for territory, hunting rights, if you will. Animals do the exact same thing, and being that we are animals and share that DNA, I believe that it is programed into us for the sake of survival.

Before nations, there were tribes. But the concept is the same, for they will fight till death to protect what is theirs.

 

[fidget]

not convinced it matters. no point thinking we might be able to prevent this state of mankind if ever its pushed back or reversed some how.

if i had to guess id say the dawn of the industrial age. this was a time when our means of existence (food, shelter, etc) was being burdened less on the individual and (imho) gave our mind time to wonder and wander lazily into various man made institutions such as government, religions, money, etc. its been a downward spiral in terms of humanity and environment in many ways yet i do not ignore nor shun the advances in knowledge gained by the progress of science and technology.

once our survival was secured with technology we looked on to not just living or surviving but being happy and enjoying ourselves, and i think that has led us to the life many of us live today. many dont think about what really sustains us and makes up what is "our life". our countries, our religions, our tv, etc is a reality we have created. we have evolved from producers to consumers and this isolation from self sufficiency has resulted in lack of self worth and we grasp onto various things to make up for it.

i think i rambled a bit there, hope i didn't garble my thoughts too much!

Very well put.

 

[hereatlast]

I think its problematic to assume that 'nationalism' is derived from genetics lwien. Further, to argue that 'nation-states' and 'tribes' are founded on the same concept is unfair at best. Tribes represent human communalism as a necessity for survival, the focus is on the group, not on the individualism that is so pervasive in our society. I personally can't get down with the philosophy that humans 'naturally' protect what is theirs in an individual sense, our cooperation is what allowed our success (humans that is). Nations seem to be by nature dividing forces, pitting 'us' against 'them,' amplifying and making important the individual.

Again, I just can't accept that the individualism so present in our current system is derived from our natural states. This argument for Capitalism, (not saying that you presented it lwien) that it represents the best system because it presents the natural essence of 'man' is unacceptable to me.

I for one hope that at least in this society we can begin to align ourselves less on the individual and more on the community (whether thats the global community or otherwise), this would require an intense paradigm shift and certainly won't happen overnight. That said, I think its unfair to regard our current political/economic system as the end-all be-all; things can change, I hope its for (what I see ) as the better.

 

[fidget]

Richard Dawkins' The Selfish Gene" is essential reading for anyone interested in this debate.

 

[Nycdeisel]

not convinced it matters. no point thinking we might be able to prevent this state of mankind if ever its pushed back or reversed some how.

if i had to guess id say the dawn of the industrial age. this was a time when our means of existence (food, shelter, etc) was being burdened less on the individual and (imho) gave our mind time to wonder and wander lazily into various man made institutions such as government, religions, money, etc. its been a downward spiral in terms of humanity and environment in many ways yet i do not ignore nor shun the advances in knowledge gained by the progress of science and technology.

once our survival was secured with technology we looked on to not just living or surviving but being happy and enjoying ourselves, and i think that has led us to the life many of us live today. many dont think about what really sustains us and makes up what is "our life". our countries, our religions, our tv, etc is a reality we have created. we have evolved from producers to consumers and this isolation from self sufficiency has resulted in lack of self worth and we grasp onto various things to make up for it.

i think i rambled a bit there, hope i didn't garble my thoughts too much!

Very well put.

Agreed.