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Why any log vape got the CE certification?
- Thread starter PPN
- Start date
http://www.hse.gov.uk/work-equipment-machinery/ce-mark-summary.htm
Some more explanation here. It contradicts itself tho.
'The CE mark is required for all new products which are subject to one or more of the European product safety Directives. It is a visible sign that the manufacturer of the product is declaring conformity with all of the Directives relating to that product.'
Then goes on
'However, the CE mark is not a quality mark, nor a guarantee that the product meets all of the requirements of relevant EU product safety law.'
Some more explanation here. It contradicts itself tho.
'The CE mark is required for all new products which are subject to one or more of the European product safety Directives. It is a visible sign that the manufacturer of the product is declaring conformity with all of the Directives relating to that product.'
Then goes on
'However, the CE mark is not a quality mark, nor a guarantee that the product meets all of the requirements of relevant EU product safety law.'
btka
Well-Known Member
it is not the case that log vapes are npt safe or so but it is time consuming... i know at least one log manufacturer who asked if someone is interessted to help him get the ce because he is from us and do not want to spent his time dealing with european bureaucracy... and as far as I understnd CE has more to do with safe electronics then health issues... the only problem is that because of non ce certification there are no logs with eu plugs....and you need a bulky converter...
Madcap79
Jack of all trades, master of none.
If only someone would just manufacture them ove there. I know there was at least one that was but for whatever reason it did not last. If it were me, I'd just throw a CE mark on the box and ship the shit. Haha. Especially if it really means nothing except lining government pockets.
Edit: If you could get a body made, it would be fairly simple to make your own from existing tech on that side of the ocean.
Edit: If you could get a body made, it would be fairly simple to make your own from existing tech on that side of the ocean.
DgN'R
I'm No Superman!
I have already mentioned this somewhere here, but simply marking the CE logo to a device or its packaging is not enough for it to be certified (and is also illegal to affix the CE marking to a product that is not certified).
Similarly, if you design a printed circuit board and other components certified by CE/RoHS/WEEE and then assemble a device that works with it, this does not make your device certified (especially if it uses a battery or power plug).
As soon as you assemble several parts together to create a product, even if these parts are already CE certified, you will still need to certify your entire product because you will have created a new product from it (it will be considered as a system and not as a component). He will therefore need his own certification. This is particularly true for electronic equipment.
The CE marking itself does not mean much (and does not indicate that your house will not catch fire (but this greatly reduces the risks and covers you in case of a problem)). What is important in marking are the directives on which the product has been tested.
The directives to be followed vary depending on the product. For example, S&B is very clear on this point and states in its instructions that the Mighty product has been tested in accordance with the following directives:
- DIN EN 60335 (safety of battery-powered devices)
- DIN EN 60950 (low voltage)
- EMC 2004/108/EG (electromagnetic compatibility)
- and of course RoHS (Restriction of Hazardous Substances) and WEEE (Waste from Electrical and Electronic Equipment)
Some directives are now obsolete, and Venty indicates this: 2014/30/EU, 2014/53/EU and 2011/65/EU.
Please note that there are no directives certifying the safety of materials for our vaporizer inhalation usage here.
On this subject, we often refer to “SS medical quality” based solely on grade, without any in-depth analysis. Depending on the mining operation, sourcing and standardization (which are not necessarily the same percentages of chemical compositions), some stainless steel grades, particularly Nickel-rich grades like the 300 series may contain variable levels of Cobalt (Co), which are considered an unintentional impurity (<0.3wt%). Here in the European Union, alloys containing more than 0.1wt% of Cobalt are considered carcinogène by REACH regulations (since 2021, #2020/217) and medical devices must not exceed this concentration (this limit is set to be further reduced in the near future). Medical devices containing cobalt in their alloy are required to inform the patient and justify its usage. It is therefore impossible to certify that it is “medical grade” stainless steel without analyzing it and relying solely on the identification grade. For example, here is a SUS304 alloy containing a percentage of cobalt identified with a spectrometer (and by the factory sourcing) and possessing some slight magnetic properties (due to a phase transition (cold working) and partial transformation of its microstructure into martensite):
With these directives and the tests carried out beforehand, you will need to complete some technical documentation (name and address of any notified body involved in assessing the conformity of the product, EU declaration of conformity, label and instructions of use etc.) and you will obtain your European Compliance (CE) which you will need to share with the relevant authorities upon request. Whether you use an approved laboratory or carry out the certification yourself (which is possible but requires skills and equipment that many do not have, and not to mention the cost and success of the training. Personally, I have never seen anyone certify their own product (except Chinese manufacturers, who have incredible expertise and the right equipment (not surprising, given that it is the world's factory (and probably the cheapest way to obtain certification))), and manufacturers generally use specific laboratories approved by the state), you will need to obtain a certification statement attesting that your product is certified. The cost of certification for such a product can be very expensive, generally between $5,000 and $10,000 or more, depending on the product and the directives to be applied. Furthermore, if your device fails a directive test, you will of course not be reimbursed by the laboratory (because they will have done their job by testing your product). That's why it's better to take the time to refine your product as much as possible and avoid last-minute changes.
That is why the European market is often so difficult to integrate for very small businesses with limited financial resources (or that many do not certify their product or that others do not sell in the European Union). Customs may carry out an inspection and require a certificate before releasing the goods into the European Union (generally on large batches of merchandise). Other checks may be carried out at any time (even for smaller quantities and on a wing and a prayer). There are so many goods in circulation that it is impossible to control everything. The manufacturer must be prepared at all times to provide all necessary documents attesting the conformity of its product to the market surveillance authorities.
In an ideal world, all directives corresponding to the product in its real-life usage situation should be tested and applied (for consumer safety). But this is not always the case; for example, it depends on whether the device has a built-in battery or not (there will not necessarily be the same directives to applied). Each product has its own specifications and therefore requires in-depth study to determine which directives should be applied.
For anecdote, I asked a agreed laboratory here in France for certification for a PCB (just a few terminal blocks and a few LEDs SMD on an aluminum PCB) and a AC/DC Meanwell brand power supply (which will then be considered as a system (PCB and power supply = single element)), the EMC directive was only mandatory if I included the power supply with the wiring to the printed circuit board. If I were to sell only the PCB (without the power supply, or in kit form (which is borderline legal here), i.e., the PCB (considered a component) and its power supply but without the wiring to the PCB), then it was no longer mandatory and only the RoHS/WEEE directive was sufficient. All I had to do was include the RoHS certificate from the factory manufacturing the PCB and the RoHS certificates for the components (terminal block and LED), and I was then able to mark my product with the CE without any problems (to comply with the European market without paying anything and without having carried out any laboratory tests (the product has been tested over a very long period of time by ourselves)).
In this example, my PCB is not subject to the Low Voltage (LV) directive because it was a extra low voltage (ELV) product. It's not necessarily ideal, but since it's a very simple PCB with two polarities and I don't think people are stupid (just connect + and -), it's more than enough and it allowed me to bring my product to market without spending money I didn't have. Otherwise, the EMC tests would have cost me €4,000 HT (there were four different LED wavelength, and although it was the same printed circuit board, the test had to be repeated for each different LED component, hence the high cost). I wasn't prepared to spend that amount of money.
To date, I am not entirely sure (as I have not yet applied for certification for this particular type of product), but it would appear that the same bypass is used for battery-powered devices. For example, Mighty integrates batteries into its devices (they are not removable), so they are required to full comply with the directives, whereas in other cases, if the battery is not included (in the device itself or in the packaging?), this will probably not be the case (although it is always better to test it, we agree).
A product can therefore be certified and sold in the EU without having undergone all possible safety tests, which explains why having a CE mark does not necessarily mean that a product is safe (and that he will not set fire to your house). In absolute terms, it is up to the manufacturer to do things right (and to care about the safety of these customers). I should be able to say more about this soon, as I will soon be applying for certification for a battery-powered product
I would be happy to provide more information to anyone interested on this subject. I have asked many manufacturers, but either they don't know the answer, or they know but don't want to help us, or they don't respond...
I don't own any actions in S&B, I no longer use their vaporizer and I don't like their marketing, but it's clear that this company is the most transparent on this issue. You will be surprised at the number of products in the EU that are not (fully?) compliant. I myself use vaporizers that are not fully certified, at my own risk. However, please note that a company may be denied the right to sell in the European Union if it does not comply with the regulations and is caught in the act. I remember that the 7thFloorVapes had problems at the time because the SSV was not certified (or it wasn't updated with the new regulations, I don't remember exactly) and could therefore no longer be sold in the EU. These issues have now been resolved and it is available again.
In any case, when you want to certify a product for sale in the EEA, the best solution is to contact an accredited laboratory that will help you identify the directives that your product must comply with, as well as other possible but non-mandatory directives
Similarly, if you design a printed circuit board and other components certified by CE/RoHS/WEEE and then assemble a device that works with it, this does not make your device certified (especially if it uses a battery or power plug).
As soon as you assemble several parts together to create a product, even if these parts are already CE certified, you will still need to certify your entire product because you will have created a new product from it (it will be considered as a system and not as a component). He will therefore need his own certification. This is particularly true for electronic equipment.
The CE marking itself does not mean much (and does not indicate that your house will not catch fire (but this greatly reduces the risks and covers you in case of a problem)). What is important in marking are the directives on which the product has been tested.
The directives to be followed vary depending on the product. For example, S&B is very clear on this point and states in its instructions that the Mighty product has been tested in accordance with the following directives:
- DIN EN 60335 (safety of battery-powered devices)
- DIN EN 60950 (low voltage)
- EMC 2004/108/EG (electromagnetic compatibility)
- and of course RoHS (Restriction of Hazardous Substances) and WEEE (Waste from Electrical and Electronic Equipment)
Some directives are now obsolete, and Venty indicates this: 2014/30/EU, 2014/53/EU and 2011/65/EU.
Please note that there are no directives certifying the safety of materials for our vaporizer inhalation usage here.
On this subject, we often refer to “SS medical quality” based solely on grade, without any in-depth analysis. Depending on the mining operation, sourcing and standardization (which are not necessarily the same percentages of chemical compositions), some stainless steel grades, particularly Nickel-rich grades like the 300 series may contain variable levels of Cobalt (Co), which are considered an unintentional impurity (<0.3wt%). Here in the European Union, alloys containing more than 0.1wt% of Cobalt are considered carcinogène by REACH regulations (since 2021, #2020/217) and medical devices must not exceed this concentration (this limit is set to be further reduced in the near future). Medical devices containing cobalt in their alloy are required to inform the patient and justify its usage. It is therefore impossible to certify that it is “medical grade” stainless steel without analyzing it and relying solely on the identification grade. For example, here is a SUS304 alloy containing a percentage of cobalt identified with a spectrometer (and by the factory sourcing) and possessing some slight magnetic properties (due to a phase transition (cold working) and partial transformation of its microstructure into martensite):
Watch SUS304 Spectrometer Analysis | Streamable
Watch "SUS304 Spectrometer Analysis" on Streamable.
streamable.com
With these directives and the tests carried out beforehand, you will need to complete some technical documentation (name and address of any notified body involved in assessing the conformity of the product, EU declaration of conformity, label and instructions of use etc.) and you will obtain your European Compliance (CE) which you will need to share with the relevant authorities upon request. Whether you use an approved laboratory or carry out the certification yourself (which is possible but requires skills and equipment that many do not have, and not to mention the cost and success of the training. Personally, I have never seen anyone certify their own product (except Chinese manufacturers, who have incredible expertise and the right equipment (not surprising, given that it is the world's factory (and probably the cheapest way to obtain certification))), and manufacturers generally use specific laboratories approved by the state), you will need to obtain a certification statement attesting that your product is certified. The cost of certification for such a product can be very expensive, generally between $5,000 and $10,000 or more, depending on the product and the directives to be applied. Furthermore, if your device fails a directive test, you will of course not be reimbursed by the laboratory (because they will have done their job by testing your product). That's why it's better to take the time to refine your product as much as possible and avoid last-minute changes.
That is why the European market is often so difficult to integrate for very small businesses with limited financial resources (or that many do not certify their product or that others do not sell in the European Union). Customs may carry out an inspection and require a certificate before releasing the goods into the European Union (generally on large batches of merchandise). Other checks may be carried out at any time (even for smaller quantities and on a wing and a prayer). There are so many goods in circulation that it is impossible to control everything. The manufacturer must be prepared at all times to provide all necessary documents attesting the conformity of its product to the market surveillance authorities.
In an ideal world, all directives corresponding to the product in its real-life usage situation should be tested and applied (for consumer safety). But this is not always the case; for example, it depends on whether the device has a built-in battery or not (there will not necessarily be the same directives to applied). Each product has its own specifications and therefore requires in-depth study to determine which directives should be applied.
For anecdote, I asked a agreed laboratory here in France for certification for a PCB (just a few terminal blocks and a few LEDs SMD on an aluminum PCB) and a AC/DC Meanwell brand power supply (which will then be considered as a system (PCB and power supply = single element)), the EMC directive was only mandatory if I included the power supply with the wiring to the printed circuit board. If I were to sell only the PCB (without the power supply, or in kit form (which is borderline legal here), i.e., the PCB (considered a component) and its power supply but without the wiring to the PCB), then it was no longer mandatory and only the RoHS/WEEE directive was sufficient. All I had to do was include the RoHS certificate from the factory manufacturing the PCB and the RoHS certificates for the components (terminal block and LED), and I was then able to mark my product with the CE without any problems (to comply with the European market without paying anything and without having carried out any laboratory tests (the product has been tested over a very long period of time by ourselves)).
In this example, my PCB is not subject to the Low Voltage (LV) directive because it was a extra low voltage (ELV) product. It's not necessarily ideal, but since it's a very simple PCB with two polarities and I don't think people are stupid (just connect + and -), it's more than enough and it allowed me to bring my product to market without spending money I didn't have. Otherwise, the EMC tests would have cost me €4,000 HT (there were four different LED wavelength, and although it was the same printed circuit board, the test had to be repeated for each different LED component, hence the high cost). I wasn't prepared to spend that amount of money.
To date, I am not entirely sure (as I have not yet applied for certification for this particular type of product), but it would appear that the same bypass is used for battery-powered devices. For example, Mighty integrates batteries into its devices (they are not removable), so they are required to full comply with the directives, whereas in other cases, if the battery is not included (in the device itself or in the packaging?), this will probably not be the case (although it is always better to test it, we agree).
A product can therefore be certified and sold in the EU without having undergone all possible safety tests, which explains why having a CE mark does not necessarily mean that a product is safe (and that he will not set fire to your house). In absolute terms, it is up to the manufacturer to do things right (and to care about the safety of these customers). I should be able to say more about this soon, as I will soon be applying for certification for a battery-powered product
I would be happy to provide more information to anyone interested on this subject. I have asked many manufacturers, but either they don't know the answer, or they know but don't want to help us, or they don't respond...I don't own any actions in S&B, I no longer use their vaporizer and I don't like their marketing, but it's clear that this company is the most transparent on this issue. You will be surprised at the number of products in the EU that are not (fully?) compliant. I myself use vaporizers that are not fully certified, at my own risk. However, please note that a company may be denied the right to sell in the European Union if it does not comply with the regulations and is caught in the act. I remember that the 7thFloorVapes had problems at the time because the SSV was not certified (or it wasn't updated with the new regulations, I don't remember exactly) and could therefore no longer be sold in the EU. These issues have now been resolved and it is available again.
In any case, when you want to certify a product for sale in the EEA, the best solution is to contact an accredited laboratory that will help you identify the directives that your product must comply with, as well as other possible but non-mandatory directives
DgN'R
I'm No Superman!
Oh, sorry @simba, the purpose of my message is not to list certified or non-certified products (I am not a market surveillance authorities, and that is not my objectif here 
), nor to harm any company, but rather to discuss this CE certification, which is misunderstood by many companies or individuals wishing to enter the EEA market. But yes, you're probably right, the CL indicates this in its instructions:
- 73/23/EWG (Low Voltage Directive)
- 89/336/EWG (Electromagnetic Compatibility)
I myself am always interested in constructive information on this subject
), nor to harm any company, but rather to discuss this CE certification, which is misunderstood by many companies or individuals wishing to enter the EEA market. But yes, you're probably right, the CL indicates this in its instructions:- 73/23/EWG (Low Voltage Directive)
- 89/336/EWG (Electromagnetic Compatibility)
I myself am always interested in constructive information on this subject
