Who decides Sativa/Indica/Hybrid designation?

[anda1anda2]

Sorry if this is a dumb question, but a quick google search wasn’t very informative.

I guess I always assumed that when you see something labeled as 75/25 Sativa Hybrid its lineage had consisted of 3/4 previously identified sativas and 1/4 previously identified indicas.

But, in reading about strains, I see references to the same strain having indica and sativa phenotypes. So, that doesn’t seem to mesh with my previous assumption.

I also recently read something on the website of one of the commercial mmj growers in my state that mentioned the sativa/indica designation was determined by them during the lab analysis of the flower post harvest. I’m assuming this means based on the terpene profile of the flower? If this is the case, how were strains labeled before access to lab analysis?

A third explanation I have read is it is basically a subjective determination by the grower based on the resulting physical characteristics and their perception of the effects of the flower.

So, are any of these correct? Are there any standards or discussion of establishing standards?

 

[Alex3oe]

In a simplified way:

- you got two strains, a 100% Indica and a 100% Sativa
- you cross these two, now you have a 50% Indica, 50% Sativa strain
- you cross one of the 50%/50% with one of the 100% and you'll get a 75%

Of course you'll never will get these accurate numbers in an easy way, but nowadays you can check genetics and verify numbers of your crossings.

edit:
Out there in nature only clean genetics of Sativa, Indica and Ruderalis existed, geographically separated from each other. It was mankind who brought them together

 

[Vaporware]

I don’t think there’s a single answer, but the third option you listed is probably the most helpful for the average end user.

I think some people still have a good idea of what went into at least the original versions of certain strains, but the fact that people will even give the same names to strains completely different lineages and the fact that even some very popular strains were grown from seeds of unknown or semi-known origin means that without genetic testing it would probably be impossible to determine the percentages of indica and sativa genetics in most plants.

Personally I’d love to have that information, but for most people it’s a question of effects, so it seems reasonable to me that they’d test the plants they’re growing and label based on that. Plus they probably don’t even have the real genetic info.

 

[anda1anda2]

I don’t think there’s a single answer, but the third option you listed is probably the most helpful for the average end user.

I think some people still have a good idea of what went into at least the original versions of certain strains, but the fact that people will even give the same names to strains completely different lineages and the fact that even some very popular strains were grown from seeds of unknown or semi-known origin means that without genetic testing it would probably be impossible to determine the percentages of indica and sativa genetics in most plants.

Personally I’d love to have that information, but for most people it’s a question of effects, so it seems reasonable to me that they’d test the plants they’re growing and label based on that. Plus they probably don’t even have the real genetic info.

Ok. That makes sense. I don’t feel so bad for being slightly confused. Heh.

Hopefully with the increased knowledge base and oncoming further legalization we will be able to have more accurately labeled product. I think that would add some legitimacy to the industry.

 

[seaofgreens]

Genetics in humans express themselves differently in each individual, even with the same parents. This is why your brothers/sisters aren't all exactly the same.

Same is going on here with marijuana. Genetically, you know that a certain plant contains x% indica and x% sativa, but this can be expressed in several different ways. Some might have more of their father's (indica) traits and less features of their mother, while others might be the opposite.

Exact homogeny is only achieved through cloning (asexual twin production.) And like humans, these plants are also affected throughout life by nature vs. nurture.

Families that only put out similar looking brothers/sisters are IBL cultivars.

 

[invertedisdead]

I think it's interesting how sedative Indica genes have been bred into nearly every modern cultivar, when not long ago the majority of wild landrace cannabis was largely sativa.

I'm sort of curious what happened to create this desire for more sedative ganja.

 

[CANtalk]

@invertedisdead, indica and hybrid cannabis is very popular because these strains are notably easier for growers; they're faster to grow, less finicky and are easier to get premium resin and plant production from. For growers the quality, shorter growing times and simplicity are big drivers in selecting strains for production.

I also remember reading somewhere that on an overall population basis indica cannabis is preferred over sativa cannibas 3 or 4 to 1 but I didn't keep that link. And I can't find that info now and wonder if I'm potentially mis-remembering it. Anybody have some good info or a link on this?

I've found sativa/indica ratio (lineage) to be very helpful and often consistent with general effects. It's nice to see Wikileaf with this info on strain pages, but I've also seen it reported incorrectly multiple times so I always try to confirm a strain ratio through more than one source. For example, GG4 is not a sativa dominant 60/40 ratio as reported on many sites, it's 40/60 indica dominant and even the source grower for GG4 notes that. I don't know why the errors in sativa/indica ratios have remained on some of the larger cannabis resource websites for a long time, but watch for such errors.

YMMV.

 

[anda1anda2]

I've found sativa/indica ratio (lineage) to be very helpful and often consistent with general effects. It's nice to see Wikileaf with this info on strain pages, but I've also seen it reported incorrectly multiple times so I always try to confirm a strain ratio through more than one source. For example, GG4 is not a sativa dominant 60/40 ratio as reported on many sites, it's 40/60 indica dominant and even the source grower for GG4 notes that. I don't know why the errors in sativa/indica ratios have remained on some of the larger cannabis resource websites for a long time, but watch for such errors.

YMMV.

To this point, I actually picked up some GG4 from a dispensary a few days ago and it is labeled 70/30 sativa dominant.

 

[Baron23]

They make this shit up, is what.

I live in a med legal state and you will see the same strain from the same cultivator listed at different dispensaries with a different label....e.g indica at one, hybrid at another.

There are also three cultivators in my state that grow the same strain....Guice. And they are all quite different.

 

[invertedisdead]

I know some growers/breeders who make the distinction between Indica/Sativa based on how the plant looks and grows and not so much the effects.

 

[Alexis]

They make this shit up, is what.

I live in a med legal state and you will see the same strain from the same cultivator listed at different dispensaries with a different label....e.g indica at one, hybrid at another.

There are also three cultivators in my state that grow the same strain....Guice. And they are all quite different.

All very true Baron, however it is also the case that the same strain name is shared by mutliple differing phenos and lineages, even different strains altogether.

Im sure there is better quality control in the top shelf legal markets though when it comes to origins, genetics etc. But for example, you could probably buy dozens and dozens of white widow seeds and they would all vary as to their claimed, and actual indica/sat ratio.

I grew a skunk No 1 Photoperiod in 2014. Said it was 65% indiica, 35% sat.

I know a hydro grower who was favoring the strain, but from elsewhere. His was claimed at 85% indica. Definitely a strong knockout indica his one.
I could never have any idea personally whether these two sources actually provide the same ratio or if they are different phenotypes or lineadges.

So it is no doubt loosely ascribed across the board, but in some cases may heve validity despite apparent contradiction?

 

[CANtalk]

Ya, I don't doubt there are a number of things happening out there at times, especially with small sellers outside of the regulated networks. The legal market should improve things, with enough time... (it's gonna be a while)

Until then, I've been able to make do with the info out there using a few suppliers I've had consistent success with. YMMV.

 

[ejackyou]

No hard and fast rules for strain Labels anymore, if You find a strain You really like, go back
and buy more of the same batch!
The same strain, can differ from cultivator to cultivator, even just two different batches
from the Same cultivator, and certainly, from one dispensary to another!

 

[Baron23]

Are there any standards or discussion of establishing standards?

f You find a strain You really like, go back
and buy more of the same batch!

This ^^ +1

 

[Haze Mister]

There is so much BS in the scene at this point.

I think it's interesting how sedative Indica genes have been bred into nearly every modern cultivar, when not long ago the majority of wild landrace cannabis was largely sativa.

I'm sort of curious what happened to create this desire for more sedative ganja.

Possibly because more people like narcotic/ sedating effects than psychedelic effects. On a global scale, most people who use cannabis use it as a drug rather than a consciousness expanding sacrament..

IMO most of the fun and interesting flavours in good weed come from sativa genetics (hence my username) but these things are subjective.

I believe the highest grade sativas have a frankincense-like aroma that is simply divine. The terpenes (and how they synergize with the cannabinoids ) are just as if not more important than CBD for a strain's healing qualities IMO.

 

[ejackyou]

There is so much BS in the scene at this point.

What I'd like to know, is where do the descriptions, and character traits of Cannabis originate?
Who's the head Apostle?
Guess the growers/producers give it the Name?
Leafly seems to have a handle on it, a good source?
Who assigns these to the NEW strains appearing every week?



Possibly because more people like narcotic/ sedating effects than psychedelic effects. On a global scale, most people who use cannabis use it as a drug rather than a consciousness expanding sacrament..

IMO most of the fun and interesting flavours in good weed come from sativa genetics (hence my username) but these things are subjective.

I believe the highest grade sativas have a frankincense-like aroma that is simply divine. The terpenes (and how they synergize with the cannabinoids ) are just as if not more important than CBD for a strain's healing qualities IMO.

 

[Vaporware]

There is so much BS in the scene at this point.



Possibly because more people like narcotic/ sedating effects than psychedelic effects. On a global scale, most people who use cannabis use it as a drug rather than a consciousness expanding sacrament..

IMO most of the fun and interesting flavours in good weed come from sativa genetics (hence my username) but these things are subjective.

I believe the highest grade sativas have a frankincense-like aroma that is simply divine. The terpenes (and how they synergize with the cannabinoids ) are just as if not more important than CBD for a strain's healing qualities IMO.

Personally I’ve got the most psychedelic effects from Indicas, and that’s true for at least one other person I know, but it’s possible I just haven’t learned to use Sativas well enough yet. They tend to give me more anxiety which keeps me from using too much at once and may be making me miss out on some good effects...

As a medical user, I also generally find Indicas more beneficial for my physical symptoms, but again it could be influenced by my difficulties in taking enough of a Sativa.

 

[CANtalk]

Effects are going to depend on dose, duration, personal genetic variability and usage patterns, plus the cannabis constituents and quality. I personally find strong quality sativas to be much more psychedelic than indicas which are narcotic as mentioned (and in agreement with the general information reported for these types of cannabis), but I take regular breaks, don't use daily, and have access to some quality products/batches. It all matters. There are a number of variables/things that can lead to two people validly having different experiences with cannabis. And let me highlight usage patterns since often its importance is underappreciated; the effects of sativas will often vary greatly depending on personal cannabis/sativa usage patterns. And daily or medicinal user patterns regularly negatively impact sativa effects/experiences.

I thought the knowledge base out there was that the reason so much current cannabis has indica genetics in it is because indica cannabis is an easier, faster and more durable grow . Sativas come from tropical regions with lots of warmth, sunshine and moisture. They are more finicky to grow and have notably longer growing times. Indicas have significantly less of all of those considerations. Growing cannabis in NA has become primarily an income generator and much of the US, Canada and Euro cannabis reflects the optimization of income through hybridization for those regions. The more conditioned the growing environment has to be the more expensive it gets. And the USA, Canada and Euro regions are not tropical...

Narcotics are legal in modern society and have been by-and-large accepted for use through much of human history, including medicine and health care. Psychedelics are the much of the opposite (illegal and more taboo), especially in western societies. I find those cultural histories are behind much of patterns we see in their use. Look at other cultures; anthropology has found some old cultures that that openly use/used psychedelics and it wasn't taboo.

... In some ways sativa vs indica effects come down to stimulant vs depressant... which are two sides of the same coin so to speak. You'd first think it would be a 50/50 split in preference among the population... but sativas can have more significantly bad/negative outcomes overall (anxiety plus) than indicas (sleepiness plus). So in the general population, you end up finding indicas more preferred than sativas... somewhere over 2 to 1 from what I've found from the literature.

Most of my friends prefer sativas over indicas... but they tend to be far more interested in psychedelics than narcotics .

Sorry for the opus, I get detail-oriented when vaping a strong batch of Strawberry Cough sativa

.

Long live cannabis .

EDIT: Friday high, fixing post.

 

[Haze Mister]

As a chronic lover of sativas I 've noticed that I' m almost like slightly tripping most of the time and this can at times lead to hypersensitivity with a real potential for paranoia. I learned through using mushrooms and some basic meditation practices how to not get sucked into thought loops and how to recognise and nip paranoid thinking in the bud, but it definitely got me a few times... I think users who cannot get out of thinking would sooner or later seek sedation.. I do sometimes hit an indica to mellow out .. but the taste often leaves me unimpressed.

But yeah, I agree a big reason why indicas are more prevalent is that they are a better cash crop for growers in a hurry.