Which 18650 batteries do you trust?

[Robert-in-YEG]

There is a thread here on 18650 Safety, but I don't see one specifically about what batteries are good, and which batteries are not so good. I have used these batteries in industrial electronics for years. They are great batteries, but they can be dangerous. When shorted, these batteries can be deadly; always keep them in a case or capped on one end.

If I were to sum up my experience, it would be trust in Japan; avoid Chinese products.

I've got a few different brands, but the battery that I have been using as of late is the NCR18650B - this is what Arizer uses in their ArGo model. The ArGo works best with this battery, and it fits in my other vapes too.

Panasonic NCR18650B 3350mAh 4.87A Battery

The Panasonic NCR18650B is a great all-round battery. ✅ Buy now with fast shipping and our unique 100% satisfaction warranty!

ca.planetofthevapes.com

This is a 3,350 MAh 4.87 Amp battery that sells for $8.59.

Below is a video from Project Farm where he tests 18650 batteries.

Robert-in-YEG

 

[Squidge]

Molicel P26A or P28A, both with a CDR of 25A.

Molicel are the only cell company who don't ban the use of their cells in vape devices.

Please make sure you only buy your cells from authorised distributors. Here is a list of them on ECF. List by Mooch

 

[oldfool]

I've been sticking with these.

 

[Shit Snacks]

Molicel P26A or P28A, both with a CDR of 25A.

Molicel are the only cell company who don't ban the use of their cells in vape devices.

Please make sure you only buy your cells from authorised distributors. Here is a list of them on ECF. List by Mooch

I've been sticking with these.

It is worth noting, these are both great options, for the proper vapes, because they are not the right batteries to use with arizer really, does not require the amount of power, these cells are great for the single cell powered on demand vapes, however, yeah those are: Sony VTC6 or 5, Samsung 25R or 30Q, LG HE4 or HG2, Molicell P26A or P28A

 

[Squidge]

It is worth noting, these are both great options, for the proper vapes, because they are not the right batteries to use with arizer really, does not require the amount of power, these cells are great for the single cell powered on demand vapes, however, yeah those are: Sony VTC6 or 5, Samsung 25R or 30Q, LG HE4 or HG2, Molicell P26A or P28A

I will always err on the side of caution. Yes, I use nicotine vapes but only at 11W usually, so the amp draw is under 4A lol. It also means I can whack the wattage up to ~35W when I want to.

You can get a M35A which has a capacity of 3500mAh and is rated for 10A.

You should always have minimum of 25% headroom for safety. (Ok, mine is excessive )

 

[Siebter]

This is much easier to solve than it looks – there is no „best“ cell, because that depends on the device you're using them in. We all want as much mAh as possible, but the higher that number is, the lower the maximum current output is. In case a device has swapable batteries, the manufacturers will most likely recommend a selection of brands and models, following these recommendations is probably the easiest way to cope with that question.

Things to avoid: a) questionable sources (that also means eBay & amazon); we should buy *only* from dedicated battery shops or the manufacturers of the device. b) rebrands: any brand that seems unfamiliar is a no go, these cells most likely have false specifications. Brands to consider (for vaping purposes): Samsung, Murata / Sony, Molicell, Sanyo.

 

[Robert-in-YEG]

It is worth noting, these are both great options, for the proper vapes, because they are not the right batteries to use with arizer really, does not require the amount of power, these cells are great for the single cell powered on demand vapes, however, yeah those are: Sony VTC6 or 5, Samsung 25R or 30Q, LG HE4 or HG2, Molicell P26A or P28A

A tale of two batteries....

Air 2 and ArGo Battery

Spare Arizer Swappable Battery This is the exact same battery that comes with the Arizer Air 2 or the Arizer Go (Argo) vaporizers! This battery has a

tools420.ca

Panasonic NCR18650B 3350mAh 4.87A Battery

The Panasonic NCR18650B is a great all-round battery. ✅ Buy now with fast shipping and our unique 100% satisfaction warranty!

ca.planetofthevapes.com

To be clear, the pictures are not accurate; when the battery from Planet of the Vapes arrived, it is exactly the same as the Arizer. The exact same battery at two different prices. I can confirm that the Canadian Planet of the Vapes is the exact battery in the Arizer ArGo. The ArGo is slow to warm, it uses power sparingly. As someone mentioned high 'mah' isn't everything.

This is much easier to solve than it looks – there is no „best“ cell, because that depends on the device you're using them in. We all want as much mAh as possible, but the higher that number is, the lower the maximum current output is. In case a device has swapable batteries, the manufacturers will most likely recommend a selection of brands and models, following these recommendations is probably the easiest way to cope with that question.

The ArGo works with any 18650, but it seems to work best with the original battery. Using the original battery, the ArGo gets one more session, than with a standard 18650, and (purely subjective) the heater seems a bit hotter giving more vapor.

Robert-in-YEG

 

[Siebter]

The ArGo works with any 18650, but it seems to work best with the original battery. Using the original battery, the ArGo gets one more session, than with a standard 18650, and (purely subjective) the heater seems a bit hotter giving more vapor.

The ArGo seems to have a very low max output, given that the stock battery only has a rating of ~5A it can use most cells even with very high capacities. Makes no sense to fiddle with other cells, most of them will work, but will also have less capacity – hence I think it's best to follow the manufacturers recommendation.

 

[Robert-in-YEG]

it's best to follow the manufacturers recommendation.

I can't think where that advice has ever been wrong. When in doubt, and most often, follow this advice.

Robert-in-YEG

"Cheapskate pays twice!"
~Unknown

 

[Robert-in-YEG]

Amazing performance - NCR18650 --> 14 back to back sessions in a Flowermate Nano

To be honest, I've never really counted uses, but I'm pretty sure 6-8 sessions is closer more normal for an 18650 battery. The batteries were warm, but not overly hot.

I'm not sure which is responsible, the battery or the vape. I'm too wiped to repeat the experiment with my ArGo right now, but next time I will be counting.

Robert-in-YEG

Panasonic NCR18650B 3350mAh 4.87A Battery

The Panasonic NCR18650B is a great all-round battery. ✅ Buy now with fast shipping and our unique 100% satisfaction warranty!

ca.planetofthevapes.com

 

[kb819]

Picked up two of these, made to handle high-temp sessions...works great so far.

 

[RustyOldNail]

Picked up two of these, made to handle high-temp sessions...works great so far.

View attachment 14898

Most likely REWRAPS, so be careful unless you know what’s under the wrapper.

LEARN A BIT MORE HERE:
https://www.reddit.com/r/electronic_cigarette/comments/kjvf46

 

[SquirrelMaster]

Molicel P26A or P28A, both with a CDR of 25A.

Molicel are the only cell company who don't ban the use of their cells in vape devices.

Please make sure you only buy your cells from authorised distributors. Here is a list of them on ECF. List by Mooch

Molicel makes up the bulk of my batteries. I prefer them to the VTC6 or 30Q even with slightly less capacity.

 

[RustyOldNail]

Molicel makes up the bulk of my batteries. I prefer them to the VTC6 or 30Q even with slightly less capacity.

Great CHOICES, name brands, buy at AUTHORIZED dealers.
Saving a few cents on rewraps .... well fill in the blanks....

 

[SquirrelMaster]

Great CHOICES, name brands, buy at AUTHORIZED dealers.
Saving a few cents on rewraps .... well fill in the blanks....

Re-wraps scare the shit out of me. I too often think of an 18650 blowing up in my face when I'm hitting my unregulated vapes. 18650batterystore has been good to me so far, I just need to buy a few (10-12) to make the shipping worth it to Canada while not forcing a more expensive carrier.

 

[RustyOldNail]

I’m very serious about battery safety, enough to buy the storage box linked below. I don’t use it for holding a charger, as I never charge batteries or devices UNATTENDED. I use it just to store all my extra lithium batteries. Mom always said: “Better SAFE, then SORRY”.....

Amazon.com

 

[Squidge]

I’m very serious about battery safety, enough to buy the storage box linked below. I don’t use it for holding a charger, as I never charge batteries or devices UNATTENDED. I use it just to store all my extra lithium batteries. Mom always said: “Better SAFE, then SORRY”.....

Amazon.com

The batteries I buy from Fogstar in the UK are always sent wrapped and in a plastic case for safety.

I also use a four cell case when they're not either in the charger being charged (always removed once done), or are in the device. For an example see here 4 cell case

 

[LesPlenty]

My pretty cheap Nitecore SC4 (my Xtar crapped out) tells you the internal resistance of the battery and will tell you if they are on the way out (will say 'GOOD, POOR OR BAD')
Hard to find Molicell sellers in Australia so I stick with Sony VT6 of LG HG2 as I can use them in any device I own.

 

[gordontreeman]

Re-wraps scare the shit out of me. I too often think of an 18650 blowing up in my face when I'm hitting my unregulated vapes. 18650batterystore has been good to me so far, I just need to buy a few (10-12) to make the shipping worth it to Canada while not forcing a more expensive carrier.

I don't buy rewraps either, and comparing some Samsung 25Rs to my Molicel P26As has me pretty happily planning to buy more molicels when the time comes (if the p28a with slightly higher capacity is ever back in stock I'd love to take them for a spin).

However, I don't think 18650's will spontaneously explode, will they? I'm not a battery chemistry expert but all of my research has pointed me to the big risk being a short causing thermal runaway (and then off-gassing/some kind of thermal activity that I guess you might call an explosion, certainly not something you want happening in an uncontrolled environment). That seems unlikely to happen in even an unregulated vape (unless you, you know, cause a short).

I'm not saying we shouldn't exercise due caution with these cells and I totally acknowledge that they are potentially dangerous. I jam just wondering if talking about them spontaneously exploding is perhaps misleading and contributing to these bogeyman safety conversations that aren't real and distract from the real safety issues.

 

[Siebter]

@gordontreeman – I agree. Li Ion cells are potentially dangerous, but not when sitting in an isolated plastic case – I'm not sure which additional value a „batterie tresor“ is capable of and never heard of cells spontaneously explode or cause fire hazards once they are stored safely or in use in a regulated device. We have to take good care to keep them intact (wrap, dents etc.) and away from other metal objects to avoid shorts. That's pretty much it.

@SquirrelMaster is referring to Li Ions being used in an unregulated device, that is indeed a different story. If that cell for example powers a coil that is shorted, there's nothing to prevent it from releasing all its power until it's done.

 

[Robert-in-YEG]

However, I don't think 18650's will spontaneously explode, will they?

That depends on a few things. However, if they are quality trusted batteries, a battery cap on one end or are in a case, are in a cool dry place, and not in your pocket, they will not spontaneously explode.

I would not carry them around all day loose in a pocket, but in a proper battery case, yes I will carry that without worry.

Batteries become dangerous when they are shorted, being charged, or in use. Yes, it is a bit more complicated than that, but properly used, properly stored, and properly charged, quality trusted 18650 batteries are safe. Always use in accordance with the manufacturer specs.

Robert-in-YEG

 

[gordontreeman]

@SquirrelMaster is referring to Li Ions being used in an unregulated device, that is indeed a different story. If that cell for example powers a coil that is shorted, there's nothing to prevent it from releasing all its power until it's done.

Yeah that’s fair, there are definitely some additional precautions necessary when using unregulated devices.

For my edification, though, is an “explosion” ever a real possibility? I’ve seen a few videos on yt of folks intentionally shorting 18650s (should be obvious but n.b. do not try this at home, it’s usually done inside of a thick plexiglass or similar container to shield the experimenter). Nothing I’ve seen could ever be accurately classed as an explosion as it takes on the order of minutes for things to happen. There’s some off gassing that is probably hot and not something you want near your face, but not like a violent explosion where one would end up with vape shrapnel in their cheek.

I’m mostly wondering if “explosion” is really the best word to categorize a runaway thermal event with an 18650 or if it’s over dramatic/spreading unnecessary fud and not really accurately describing what can happen.

 

[RustyOldNail]

Yeah that’s fair, there are definitely some additional precautions necessary when using unregulated devices.

For my edification, though, is an “explosion” ever a real possibility? I’ve seen a few videos on yt of folks intentionally shorting 18650s (should be obvious but n.b. do not try this at home, it’s usually done inside of a thick plexiglass or similar container to shield the experimenter). Nothing I’ve seen could ever be accurately classed as an explosion as it takes on the order of minutes for things to happen. There’s some off gassing that is probably hot and not something you want near your face, but not like a violent explosion where one would end up with vape shrapnel in their cheek.

I’m mostly wondering if “explosion” is really the best word to categorize a runaway thermal event with an 18650 or if it’s over dramatic/spreading unnecessary fud and not really accurately describing what can happen.

Explosions are events that can happen if the lithium vents, and is inside a SEALED container, like a MECHANICAL MOD, with NO VENT holes. That’s basically a PIPE BOMB.

 

[gordontreeman]

Explosions are events that can happen if the lithium vents, and is inside a SEALED container, like a MECHANICAL MOD, with NO VENT holes. That’s basically a PIPE BOMB.

Yeah I’m just not convinced this would be so spontaneous and without warning as “explosion” implies. In all the shorted clips I’ve seen there are audio-visual queues that the user done goofed. I would think you would hear lithium venting and know to move away from your mod.

Again not to discount safety requirements here at all. I just think the discussion is more productive when users understand the tangible risks and associated warning signs. I think excepting these edge cases the term explosion is hyperbole and not terribly productive (but I also want to stress that I’m I’m playing armchair qb here based on internet research, so I’m very open to correction if I’m mistaken).

Also this aside got a bit off topic and might better belong in the safety thread than one on which batteries folks trust. Happy to drop it here and continue it there if it’s more appropriate

 

[RustyOldNail]

Better to ERR, on the side of CAUTION!