What is the downside of dabbing at 450 degrees and lower?

[DabDiva]

I know there will be a lot less vapor production. But medicinally are you losing any benefits with the enail set at this low of a temp?

 

[seaofgreens]

That's a good question man. I would hypothesize, so bear that in mind, that you are not able to vaporize all the goodies from concentrates until a higher range, like 600-700. I also hypothesize that you don't reach the point of combustion with concentrates until a higher temperature due to a lack of cellulose, which I believe is what has that lower combustion point.

 

[CrimsonKing]

Yeah if it's one of those really thick like 4mm quartz bangers with an element wrapped around it you might get away with temps that low as they tend to hold heat a little better when you start drawing. If it is a ti nail I have never had any kind of luck at temps less than 600 because it starts cooling off and not staying at temp below that when you draw. Those temps are high enough to vaporize all the goodies in flower, but there's just not a lot of info if that directly correlates to concentrates. You could probably take the lowest temp "dabs" using a vape like the LSV or E-Nano that get hot enough for concentrate but you could dial it in so it was just at the point of vaporizing. Any reason you want to take the temp so low? 650ish on a enail is usually perfect for me nice big cloud and not so hot you burn your throat and lungs in the process.

 

[DabDiva]

I have a SiC Dish which is probably #1 at retaining heat

I have noticed a new issue that i start to cough up a lung full after only 1 dab when at average temps. Very similar to if i were to take a flower combustion hit

So i attempted multiple dabs into my vaporizer and i had zero issues. This is what led to wondering why i can tolerate these. Which led me to wondering if all cannabinoids are being consumed or not

@seaofgreens are you saying that i could set my enail to say 500ish degrees? and it would still be 100% vapor since the combustion that occurs with flowers is because of the cellulose, which the concentrates contain much less?

P.S. if anyone knows the temp of combustion for concentrates please chime in !

 

[mikeben]

I still try to keep my oils as low as 245 on my EVO, that's my limit.

 

[DabDiva]

I still try to keep my oils as low as 245 on my EVO, that's my limit.

I assume you meant 345 degrees F? Lol

If not, and 245 wasn't a typo, then wow that is what you call a low temp hit!

Have you happened to weigh your dabs? Wondering how much the Evo can take on at those temps

 

[mikeben]

No my clock position on the EVO is 2:45, I think that's about 430 degrees.

http://www.vapexhale.com/pages/temperature-settings-guide

 

[poonman]

This conversation about low temp vs high temp dabbing has
intrigued me for years now . I've also enjoyed using the VXN
for doing concentrates , usually at 2 o'clock on the dial .
Which I believe is around 345 F . I get very medicated using
concentrates/rosin with this method .

However , I do Not get that when using my pen vape ,
even using dual coils at high power . But currently
I've been using the Orb's terras , with No coils . Just
a ceramic disk to heat up , and it takes more power
to heat up . So I do believe there is a correlation in regards
to temp .

To the point where I may ( will ) pick up an 18mm Ti nail
at my LHS today . And see the difference myself . I have a
pretty good torch from benzomatic .

I'm worried about heat expansion on the Ti nail .
Should I use an adapter/reducer to attach my Ti nail
to my Bong ? To reduce the chance of breaking my downstem ?

 

[DabDiva]

No my clock position on the EVO is 2:45, I think that's about 430 degrees.

http://www.vapexhale.com/pages/temperature-settings-guide

Ah sorry i thought you meant you were hitting it at 245 degrees lol.

This conversation about low temp vs high temp dabbing has
intrigued me for years now . I've also enjoyed using the VXN
for doing concentrates , usually at 2 o'clock on the dial .
Which I believe is around 345 F . I get very medicated using
concentrates/rosin with this method .

However , I do Not get that when using my pen vape ,
even using dual coils at high power . But currently
I've been using the Orb's terras , with No coils . Just
a ceramic disk to heat up , and it takes more power
to heat up . So I do believe there is a correlation in regards
to temp .

To the point where I may ( will ) pick up an 18mm Ti nail
at my LHS today . And see the difference myself . I have a
pretty good torch from benzomatic .

I'm worried about heat expansion on the Ti nail .
Should I use an adapter/reducer to attach my Ti nail
to my Bong ? To reduce the chance of breaking my downstem ?

i would be interested to hear your results vs the Ti Nail. Pens just can't compare in my opinion.

 

[CrimsonKing]

I have a SiC Dish which is probably #1 at retaining heat

I have noticed a new issue that i start to cough up a lung full after only 1 dab when at average temps. Very similar to if i were to take a flower combustion hit

So i attempted multiple dabs into my vaporizer and i had zero issues. This is what led to wondering why i can tolerate these. Which led me to wondering if all cannabinoids are being consumed or not

@seaofgreens are you saying that i could set my enail to say 500ish degrees? and it would still be 100% vapor since the combustion that occurs with flowers is because of the cellulose, which the concentrates contain much less?

P.S. if anyone knows the temp of combustion for concentrates please chime in !

I've noticed a similar issue when using my quartz bangers for large dabs (high med or low temp) if I do a few small ones to work my way up I won't cough up a lung. Also taking big dabs on my HE domeless nail is not an issue at low temps as far as coughing goes (until I get to the point I just can't handle the expansion) / ridiculous big dab. Without some sensitive IR thermometers to measure exact temps, and they don't work that well on clear stuff like bangers, my best educated guess would be; something about the quartz mixed with the sheer amount of hot to scorching air you are inhaling causes the coughing. I would try smaller dabs and by doing so you could let your quartz cool down a bit more. As for the combustion point for contrates, it's going to vary by type, how well purged they are ect. I.E in my experience crumbles and honeycomb need less heat than a snap and pull or shatter to vaporize completely, That said I stuck a small piece of shatter on my nail and started torching the shatter directly and it took about 12 seconds under direct flame from a torch for the material to actually combust (I can't give you an exact temp but as long as you are not heating your nail to liquid magma hot then immediately dabbing it shouldn't be an issue) When I have the chance to use an enail I prefer it set to the 675-725 range so it doesn't lost too much heat on big or multiple dabs, if your are trying to stay in the 500 or lower range you should not combust provided your concentrates are purged correctly / made with c02.

 

[poonman]

@DabDiva
I ended up getting a quartz banger b/c they only had female fittings
on the Ti nails . But I concur with everything @CrimsonKing posted .
The main factor , Not being able to gauge your dabbing temp .
So I can see how the D-nail is so popular with veteran dabbing
enthusiasts .

I've been playing , at how long to heat up the banger and
dab sizes . I've gotten some small tasty hits , so far .
But yeah , a little too long and it can get a bit harsh .

I'll switch up the temp on the VXN too , but I'm liking
it at 2-ish . Plus I still get very medicated at that temp .

 

[ReggieB]

I use gas and a generic ceramic nail and a k-type temp. probe attached underneath, obviously it doesn't hold the temperature for long so I heat over my target temp and dab as the temp drops, not as good as an enail, better than guessing

 

[CrimsonKing]

I use gas and a generic ceramic nail and a k-type temp. probe attached underneath, obviously it doesn't hold the temperature for long so I heat over my target temp and dab as the temp drops, not as good as an enail, better than guessing

Yeah my method is far more un scientific but I still get consistent results. For quarts I heat it to nearly glowing (cause I like it to stay clean) as soon as the glow stops, start your 55-60 sec timer (55 is about perfect if its a thick one that really holds heat well little less for the thinner ones IME) TI gets heated until red just starts to appear start the timer for between 10-30 (depending on the nail my new he infinail is right in the 20 second range for nice complete low temp dabs) play around with the time in 3-5 second incrments and find what works right for you.

*Protip #1 type timer into Google for a fully functional timer app. Super pro level typing timer 55 seconds will bring up the timer preset at 55 seconds.

*Protip #2 if you want your quarts to stay nice and clean, not all black and nasty at the bottom, use the heating technique above and keep some qtips handy, when the dab is done remove the carb cap (you should have one for temps this low!) and use the qtip to soak up any pooled oil, swirll both ends around in the banger. If it is hot enough to scorch or ignite the qtip you are dabbing too hot wait longer for the quartz to cool, any material left over should easily be burnt off the next time it is heated.
** Note this technique must be used from the beginning (or very close to it) to keep quartz looking clear and new) once you have that black build up its there to stay, not that it affects functionality... It's just ugly imo

Edit
@poonman yeah most of the TI nails LHS carry will fit male fittinngs as most of the oil rigs people use are direct inject (male) glass. Now you could buy a nail like my higly educated Infinail (HE makes really good quality TI I used one of there starter turbine nails for over a year before I felt I needed to upgrade / replace) which can be configured to fit any 14mm or 18mm piece male or female but it was a 150 as opposed to 70 for the one that just fits the male fittings (but I can also replace the dish part you heat on this one and switch it out for quarts and make it a hybrid nail if I want. Getting to my point if you do end up getting a TI nail in the future I would recommend getting a M2M adapter, rather than one that can fit into a female joint as its easier to overheat TI and put a lot of stress on the joint and possible break it. My LHS has a big ass sign in front of the nail and adapter case that says "heat breaks glass, use an adapter save your ass"

 

[darkrom]

I have a SiC Dish which is probably #1 at retaining heat

I have noticed a new issue that i start to cough up a lung full after only 1 dab when at average temps. Very similar to if i were to take a flower combustion hit

So i attempted multiple dabs into my vaporizer and i had zero issues. This is what led to wondering why i can tolerate these. Which led me to wondering if all cannabinoids are being consumed or not

@seaofgreens are you saying that i could set my enail to say 500ish degrees? and it would still be 100% vapor since the combustion that occurs with flowers is because of the cellulose, which the concentrates contain much less?

P.S. if anyone knows the temp of combustion for concentrates please chime in !

Try it. What's the worst that could happen?


I just tried a 500 degree dab on my sic dish. Delicious and smooth.

 

[Wizsteve]

I know there will be a lot less vapor production. But medicinally are you losing any benefits with the enail set at this low of a temp?

The biggest downside might be the vapor turning back into a solid before you inhale it.and getting it to melt onto the head and off the tool .

I would think that one would use far less with a lower temp but at that point other tools might work better like a nice glass oil pipe

 

[h3rbalist]

i own an Errlectric concentration station and lowest temp i would dab at is 280/290c.


If I go over 330 the oils gone before i can get my vortex cap on there.


i always thought low temp with cap used less oil and gave more vapor???

 

[Wizsteve]

i own an Errlectric concentration station and lowest temp i would dab at is 280/290c.


If I go over 330 the oils gone before i can get my vortex cap on there.


i always thought low temp with cap used less oil and gave more vapor???

Using a low temp will use less (and we are talking Fahrenheit just to be clear)
mainly because it melts slower so you put less on the nail so less is wasted on exhale .