what is causing harshness via vaping

[stinkytofus]

bad/midgrade weed?

too dry?

not dry enough?

i tried bubble gum, smooth, doesnt make me want to cough

then i tried other ones, new york diesel, by my 8th pull its getting harsh

i usually do 10 pulls/10 seconds each on my haze v3 second setting and then 5 pulls/5 seconds each on third setting

 

[herbivore21]

bad/midgrade weed?

too dry?

not dry enough?

i tried bubble gum, smooth, doesnt make me want to cough

then i tried other ones, new york diesel, by my 8th pull its getting harsh

i usually do 10 pulls/10 seconds each on my haze v3 second setting and then 5 pulls/5 seconds each on third setting

Cannabis that is too wet makes for harsher vapor. Are your buds dry enough? Can you twist the stems or do they break? If they twist, it's too wet.

Moreover, cannabis that is cured for a month or more (this is NOT the same as drying) tends to vape much more smoothly than cannabis that is properly dried, but not cured.

Less resinous cannabis flowers (either immature, bounced by unscrupulous black market operators etc) will be spent more quickly. The resin glands will finish being boiled quicker and so you'll have harsher draws where you're just cooking the remaining plant components after the resin has been vaped away. This could explain your experience of harshness with some flowers after 8 draws or so. There may not have been much resin to vape away.

Poor flushing of the cannabis (leaving residual nutrients that end up in the final harvested flowers) will also make for harsher vapor.

I am sure plenty of others will have more examples of ways to get harsh vapor. Hope this helps you get started!

 

[waxdab23]

Cannabis that is too wet makes for harsher vapor. Are your buds dry enough? Can you twist the stems or do they break? If they twist, it's too wet.

Moreover, cannabis that is cured for a month or more (this is NOT the same as drying) tends to vape much more smoothly than cannabis that is properly dried, but not cured.

Less resinous cannabis flowers (either immature, bounced by unscrupulous black market operators etc) will be spent more quickly. The resin glands will finish being boiled quicker and so you'll have harsher draws where you're just cooking the remaining plant components after the resin has been vaped away. This could explain your experience of harshness with some flowers after 8 draws or so. There may not have been much resin to vape away.

Poor flushing of the cannabis (leaving residual nutrients that end up in the final harvested flowers) will also make for harsher vapor.

I am sure plenty of others will have more examples of ways to get harsh vapor. Hope this helps you get started!

Dang this is awesome information. Thank you!

Of course I never paid attention to any of this stuff when I was combusting...

How can one tell whether their flower is properly cured and flushed?

 

[herbivore21]

Dang this is awesome information. Thank you!

Of course I never paid attention to any of this stuff when I was combusting...

How can one tell whether their flower is properly cured and flushed?

Being able to tell whether material is properly flushed was something I first learned about as a combuster interestingly enough!

Usually ash from properly flushed cannabis will be white. If the ash leftover is black, this is an indicator of improper flushing.

Improperly flushed cannabis when vaporized will also be harsher on the throat and will not taste as good. The combustion test is actually still useful for vaporists like ourselves as obviously other reasons can cause the vapor to be harsher etc.

Curing is a different matter entirely. It is important to realize from the outset that it is not necessarily reasonable to expect that your cannabis is cured when you buy it.

The cannabis must be dry as I describe above or IMO it is unforgivable schwag. However, curing takes months after the cannabis is harvested and properly dried and there are risks of spoilage during curing if the conditions are not carefully monitored - that is a lot of responsibility for a retailer to take on without charging more for the material. If you've paid a very high price, then it is more reasonable to demand a good cure of course.

Well cured nugs tend to look more pale/yellower than when freshly harvested (at harvest, flowers are more green typically - the components of the plant responsible for the green color gradually diminishes due to microbial degradation - which is all part of the process we call curing. Additionally, the resin will gradually change from clear, to cloudy/white and then yellow before starting to darken and go more amber/brown - this will become visible as the material cures too).

On the other hand, if the cure has gone wrong - nugs that have started to rot look browner than the original green freshly-harvested look and are easy to distinguish in this way from cured flowers. You may also find visible mold inside the larger nugs when you break them open!

The risk of nugs rotting during the curing process is real (many like to cure their flowers for 3 months or more!), especially if the drying was insufficient or in the event that the material is exposed to unexpected additional humidity. Hope this clears things up some

 

[Vapor_Eyes]

How can one tell whether their flower is properly cured and flushed?

I'm no expert so take everything I say with a grain of salt. It's based mostly on years of experience with a healthy helping of hearsay.

I read recently on FC that a good test to see if your material is properly flushed is to exhale the vapor through your nose, if it is flushed properly it shouldn't burn. I wish I could remember who said it so I could credit them.

I've been testing this since and I have no way of knowing for sure but it seems accurate. I have had a variety of strains from three different growers. The one grower's strains are flushed properly but too fresh and moist. The other two growers strains are dried properly (62% humidity), and cured more than expected, but not flushed properly. One grower's bud burned quite a bit, the other's was more mild.

As far as curing I've found the best test for me is flavor. Bud that is not cured enough will taste very grassy due to extra chlorophyll. As the chlorophyll dies off the taste of the actual strain starts to come through. The grassy flavor of uncured bud is fresh and vegetal, if it smells like hay it is too dry and has lost goodies.

I've got three strains at once before that all tasted the same. After a month or so of curing they all tasted completely different, one tasted exactly like grapes.

If done properly you can cure for very long amounts of time. I believe DJ Short cures some flowers for years.

I've been curing through instinct developed through experience. Recently I decided to be more scientific and got a hygrometer, I keep it in the bottom of a mason jar face down, so I can read it while the jar is sealed. This lets me monitor my material and make sure it stays at 62% humidity.

Generally I only cure one or two of my top shelf strains, and vape the rest as is. I need a steady supply of cannabis for medical reasons so I can't cure everything to the degree I would like.

Boveda packs work too but I'm too stubborn to pay for those. I figure I've been doing it manually for this long, why change now. Also, the packs are not 100% foolproof so you should be monitoring your stash anyway.

That's the first I've heard of the ash test for flushing, in my combustion days I always thought the white ash meant it was cured well. Although now that you mention it @herbivore21 some of the stuff I used to cure would lighten after curing, but only to a pale gray. These strains were probably not flushed correctly.

 

[stinkytofus]

Cannabis that is too wet makes for harsher vapor. Are your buds dry enough? Can you twist the stems or do they break? If they twist, it's too wet.

Moreover, cannabis that is cured for a month or more (this is NOT the same as drying) tends to vape much more smoothly than cannabis that is properly dried, but not cured.

Less resinous cannabis flowers (either immature, bounced by unscrupulous black market operators etc) will be spent more quickly. The resin glands will finish being boiled quicker and so you'll have harsher draws where you're just cooking the remaining plant components after the resin has been vaped away. This could explain your experience of harshness with some flowers after 8 draws or so. There may not have been much resin to vape away.

Poor flushing of the cannabis (leaving residual nutrients that end up in the final harvested flowers) will also make for harsher vapor.

I am sure plenty of others will have more examples of ways to get harsh vapor. Hope this helps you get started!

what exactly is "cured"

what exactly is "flushing of the cannabis"

please elaborate

 

[herbivore21]

what exactly is "cured"

what exactly is "flushing of the cannabis"

please elaborate

As alluded in my quote in your post, flushing refers to the practice of withholding nutrients from plants later in flower (in the leadup to harvest), instead plenty of water is given to rinse away any water-soluble nutrients out of the plants. This prevents there from being residual nutrients etc leftover in the final flowers. Buds that are not properly flushed are schwag IMO - don't buy it if you can avoid it!

Curing refers to the deliberate use of microbial degradation to eat away at the relatively pharmacologically inactive portions of the flower (chlorophyll etc) and leave you with a higher percentage of resin vs inactive plant material as a result. As I mention above, the problem with not doing the curing properly is that this can also invite mold and rot. There are a number of other threads around FC that describe curing in more detail, I have posted a lot more info in one or two of those IIRC

 

[KeroZen]

I agree with most of what has been said above, but I think there is above all a direct correlation between the size of the vapor path (and more precisely the vapor cooling surface area) and the harshness of the resulting vapor. And there's also clear correlation with taste.

The hotter the worst taste. The cooler the more delicious... but the major drawback is condensation and reclaim (be it on your special cooling gizmo like in the Sidekick and Apollo or even the S&B Crafty/Mighty, or be it inside your water when using a glass piece)

We all want it cool and tasty but it robs some of the goods in the process. Life's a bitch!

 

[MinnBobber]

The most basic answer might be that it is the DRYNESS that you are feeling.
Vapor is very very dry and you are taking 125 seconds of hits, of very dry air.

Vapor is very dry, even if top grade herb, even if properly flushed and cured.
A cheap water piece/ bubbler serves to moisten the vapor and can make a world of difference.

This would likely be the cause if the hits at the beginning are fine but they become worse and worse as your mouth, throat, and lungs get totally dried out.

Moisturizing the vapor makes for a much smoother session

 

[grokit]

There's a bunch of posts in various warm water vaping threads, many swear by it

https://www.google.com/search?q=fuc...=0ahUKEwihtOOEncDPAhUC8GMKHVIdAUwQrQIIJygEMAA

 

[little maggie]

I use water with most of my vaporizers or I end up coughing- regardless of the herb. There are only a couple that I can use without water.

 

[herbivore21]

I agree with most of what has been said above, but I think there is above all a direct correlation between the size of the vapor path (and more precisely the vapor cooling surface area) and the harshness of the resulting vapor. And there's also clear correlation with taste.

The hotter the worst taste. The cooler the more delicious... but the major drawback is condensation and reclaim (be it on your special cooling gizmo like in the Sidekick and Apollo or even the S&B Crafty/Mighty, or be it inside your water when using a glass piece)

We all want it cool and tasty but it robs some of the goods in the process. Life's a bitch!

Yes! Much of this info is very helpful in this thread. I addressed a number of the more complicated variables that may be less apparent to folks in my response to this thread - but I knew my buddies around here like yourself would help fill us in on these major factors.

We should clarify that rigs with water do negatively impact flavor (of course plenty of us know of different kinds of rigs where there is a minimal flavor impact and the rig still effectively smooths out the hit - it is all about the individual's needs).

Water level and the kind of percolator in the rig effect this significantly; low water and a simpler perc will have very little negative effect on flavor, but too short of a vapor path with too low of a water level and minimal percolation may still be on the hot/harsh side for some. There's a lot of variation in people's ability to tolerate heat/dryness of vapor.

We'll all have different preferences and needs and I know that there'll be plenty for whom my preferences are not going to be suited. Hell, there are some techniques that work for a lot of my friends around here like warm water vaping which I find uncomfortable in the extreme! Some folks may also have medical considerations relating to respiratory irritation and have to avoid vaping altogether, others might find it tolerable to use heavy percolation and high water levels in a large rig but nothing smaller/with lower water level/less percolation due to harshness.

P.S. It is profoundly noticeable that stuff is left in the water when you use concentrates. The water changes color with heavy use to a pale yellow/gold. I change my water quite often too!

 

[Vapor_Eyes]

Nothing causes harshness for me like high THC levels. That's probably not what @stinkytofus is talking about since his harshness comes in the end. High THC strains are most harsh for me on the first few hits.

I can easily tolerate dry vapor and even hot vapor, but the high THC strains are definitely harsh on my throat and lungs. Vaping through water does not help at all with these strains. It's okay though, I prefer the high THC strains and kind of like the burning sensation, it takes me back to my combustion days. I know, I know, I'm crazy.

I do enjoy vaping through warm water sometimes, it's an interesting experience and it does seem smoother.

 

[stinkytofus]

I lift my tongue upwards and let the vapor hit the tongue first before traveling down to my lungs, that helps alot with the later hits by a lot

So let me get this straight:

1. To properly flush flowers, u run water thru it to flush out any water soluable materials, but now i already have the flowers, is there any point in me flushing it ? Will crystals on the flowers get flushed away ?

2. To properly cure the buds, u guys do it in a jar with boveda 62 packs and hygrometer ? and burp it everyday ? Or is there another method

 

[MinnBobber]

So let me get this straight:

1. To properly flush flowers, u run water thru it to flush out any water soluable materials, but now i already have the flowers, is there any point in me flushing it ? Will crystals on the flowers get flushed away ?

2. To properly cure the buds, u guys do it in a jar with boveda 62 packs and hygrometer ? and burp it everyday ? Or is there another method

........................................................................
1. Flushing only happens when the flower is alive and growing. Growers turn off the nutrients/chemicals that have been feeding the growth. Plants only get water and the others elements "flush out" of the plant.
If not properly flushed, these elements remain in the plant and negatively impact taste, smell, etc.
Absolutely no point to flush now!

2. Most newly purchased buds are too moist/ not properly dried by shops. They want to move it out/ sell it ASAP. Drying involves burping the jars, opening to let some moisture out, so buds slowly move to proper moisture level. At first, burping is daily but as bud dries it can move to every other day, every 3rd day, etc. As it reaches proper level of approx 62% RH, Boveda packs are placed to keep it stable at that % for long term storage.
I have no hygrometer but it certainly does not hurt to buy a cheapo one to check as you monitor drying phase.

Bud that's too wet will mold and bud that is too dry will be crumbly and harsh. Just right bud is "sponge-like". You give it a tiny little squeeze in and it expands back to original size. If you squeeze too dry bud lightly, it crumbles.

 

[stinkytofus]

........................................................................
1. Flushing only happens when the flower is alive and growing. Growers turn off the nutrients/chemicals that have been feeding the growth. Plants only get water and the others elements "flush out" of the plant.
If not properly flushed, these elements remain in the plant and negatively impact taste, smell, etc.
Absolutely no point to flush now!

2. Most newly purchased buds are too moist/ not properly dried by shops. They want to move it out/ sell it ASAP. Drying involves burping the jars, opening to let some moisture out, so buds slowly move to proper moisture level. At first, burping is daily but as bud dries it can move to every other day, every 3rd day, etc. As it reaches proper level of approx 62% RH, Boveda packs are placed to keep it stable at that % for long term storage.
I have no hygrometer but it certainly does not hurt to buy a cheapo one to check as you monitor drying phase.

Bud that's too wet will mold and bud that is too dry will be crumbly and harsh. Just right bud is "sponge-like". You give it a tiny little squeeze in and it expands back to original size. If you squeeze too dry bud lightly, it crumbles.

So spongelike bud will be optimal for vaping

 

[MinnBobber]

So spongelike bud will be optimal for vaping

....................................................................
That's not true for everyone/ subjective.
I like to vape my bud directly at 62% RH.
Many here (not sure what %) prefer it slightly drier so they let it sit out a day or two to dry a little.

Maybe those that like to vape drier bud can comment???

Spongelike is optimal for long term storage--- not too wet and not too dry.

 

[VapourHaze]

Just to play devils advocate for a moment. . Neville Schoenmaker the famous dutch breeder never flushed any of his award winning cannabis back in the 90s as he was running a large multiple stage hydroponic grow so was unfeasable to do so.

Also in my experience well cured flowers burn much cleaner than fresh flower regardless of flush or nutrient level.

I was speaking with an excellent grower who struggles to get white ash even tho he fully flushes .. he claimes a lot was to do with moisture content.

Just some food for thought

 

[Creeper]

Fascinating stuff, I have been tossing in Boveda 62 packs in my stash and I have found my sessions to be more enjoyable by far... highly recommend them as an easy start.

 

[grokit]

I have one of the larger 65s (the size that barely fits in a quart jar), and it keeps the buds on the spongy side. They still has decent twig snap, but not quite in two. I just take out a few small buds and put them into a non-airtight stash jar; it vapes just fine like it is but I usually like to crisp it up a bit before grinding.