What is a vape "Signature" and how are they different?

[cybrguy]

I hear this expression quite a bit and I'm not always certain how to apply it. I suspect this may be one of those terms that different people apply somewhat differently which makes it more of a challenge to have a precise definition. I have only really used 3 vapes regularly and tried 1 other, so I am still somewhat uninitiated.
So, does each Vape have its own signature? It's easy to see how classes of vapes would be different from each other and similar to one another. For example you could break down vapes by power source, with flame powered tapes as one category, plug-in vapes as another and battery powered tapes as a third. Those catagories would each break down into sub cats like plugins breaking down in to logs, and bag style and whip, etc.
Differences attributable to category are one thing. But then you have differences within sub categories.
For example with log vapes. Does an enano have a different signature then an underdog? I would expect those to be very similar to one another, especially if it was a blind test. Do they have different signatures?
When you get to flame powered tapes there are a lot more things to differentiate them from each other, not just whether they are conduction or convection. There is also how the torch is applied, whether there is any opportunity for gases from the combustion of the fuel to be included in the vapor path, materials, etc. It would be easy to see for example how a Lotus might have a completely different signature from a daisy. But comparing a daisy to a Lilly might result in very similar signatures as other than the length of the path the vapor is traveling through and the manner in which flow is restricted there doesn't seem to be that much of a difference between the two devices. Or so it seems so far.

So, this thread is meant to help educate me, and hopefully some other users, on what a signature is, how they may be different, how objective they are and whether or not they are or can be something that a designer/manufacturer can target to make their device more attractive.

 

[Melting Pot]

I'm a newb but from what I understand its the different affects from different type vapes ,convection, conduction,hybrid
I noticed a little difference between solo and E-nano
Hybrid solo convection nano
But when I received my Vapman I noticed a big difference know I just rotate between E-nano and Vapman at home it is seriously helping get some extra effect's !!!
I'm sure this the most basic answer. I hope this helps.

 

[max]

So, does each Vape have its own signature?

Even if there was a dictionary definition for the term, applied to vapes, it wouldn't be true that each model had a signature of some kind. It would be like saying each vape has a unique taste, which absolutely isn't true.

I don't know who's been spreading this murky BS but it does no favors to the vaporizing community.

 

[RUDE BOY]

I don't ever recall anyone saying every vape has a unique signature or taste but that different delivery and heating methods subtlety change the effects. No "murky BS" (whatever that means ) many people here have experienced it and many haven't.

It's been a topic of discussion in threads for a couple years now so how can you just discount it off-hand and how does the Idea do a disservice to the vaping community in any way?

 

[Melting Pot]

Even if there was a dictionary definition for the term, applied to vapes, it wouldn't be true that each model had a signature of some kind. It would be like saying each vape has a unique taste, which absolutely isn't true.

I don't know who's been spreading this murky BS but it does no favors to the vaporizing community.

I don't know if I agree and it feels weird disagreeing with someone at your level.
But it seems there would be some kind of difference so much different heat source but I guess heat is heat. But that is the joy of living in the free world we still have our opinions. I get different taste and effects from different vapes. I got a question for you if they are all so much alike why have a variety find one that works and buy 5
Good luck everyone finding your way through the merky Bullshit !!!

 

[h3rbalist]

When I hear the term 'vape signature' I assume it refers to a collective.
Build quality, flavor, efficiency, air path, ease of use, easy to clean and maintain, you know, like the whole sha'bang.

I guess that's how you could have two log vapes that have completely different signatures.

 

[VegNVape]

I don't know if I agree and it feels weird disagreeing with someone at your level.
But it seems there would be some kind of difference so much different heat source but I guess heat is heat. But that is the joy of living in the free world we still have our opinions. I get different taste and effects from different vapes. I got a question for you if they are all so much alike why have a variety find one that works and buy 5
Good luck everyone finding your way through the merky Bullshit !!!

Indeeed!!! This made me chuckle quite considerably and I completely agree with you @Melting Pot

Murky bullshit! Hee hee hee I am lovin that phrase

The world is full of it.

 

[lwien]

I don't know who's been spreading this murky BS but it does no favors to the vaporizing community.

I think StickStones was the first one to come up with this term.

For me, different vaporizers provide me with different experiences, which could be the high, the taste, the harshness or lack thereof, etc etc and I think this has to do with vapor densities, temperatures, length of vapor path, what the vapor comes in contact with before it enters your lungs, etc etc.

I don't see it as murky BS at all.

I do know this. If my tolerance begins to creep up, I can either change vaporizers or even change the mode I'm using with a specific vape, as an example going from bubbler to transfer wand with my LSV, and it seems to reset my tolerance much in the same way as switching strains.

I don't know if I agree and it feels weird disagreeing with someone at your level.

Don't feel weird about it. The way I see it, challenging a mod is no different than challenging anyone else here, with the exception being specific mod decisions in regards to the rules of the site.

 

[RUDE BOY]

I guess that's how you could have two log vapes that have completely different signatures.

I see the difference when just using different stems in my UD. The effects using the same amount of the same bud in a glass stem doesn't feel the same to me as it does in a wooden roasting tube. But I see no way to "prove" there's a difference or know for sure why it makes me feel there is, so i would admit the idea is all subjective and anecdotal for now but that sure doesn't mean what i feel isn't real.

 

[macbill]

When I combusted, I did it many ways. Mostly small individual-hit pipes for personal consumption, to larger pipes. I liked to smoke different ways. I have many vapes, and I actively use them. Especially recently, as some favorites (EVO, Mighty) had some warranty work done.

I enjoy vaping different ways, just as I enjoyed different ways to combust. It's all good.

 

[t-dub]

I don't know who's been spreading this murky BS but it does no favors to the vaporizing community.

It was @stickstones that first brought it up. Its a simple concept. Different vapes have slightly different feeling effects, pure and simple, no murky BS. Unless of course every single vape you have feels the same to you, then it might seem like BS, but many of us feel differently depending on the delivery system we use.

 

[stickstones]

I, for one, have detected differences in taste and effect from many of the over 40 vapes I've owned. It was the size of the collection that finally led me to notice it. It made no sense to me why a portable like the PNP or the Ascent could kick my ass more than the Evo at times. Turns out, it was always after a switch. So when I used the Evo exclusively for a month I started to feel like I needed more herb to get the same effects as when I started using it a month earlier. Then when I pulled out a different vape, in particular one that I felt was inferior, the effects were over the top at times.

The only classification I have come up with is some conduction vapes tend to fall into a more stoney category compared to my mostly convection vapes. It makes sense to me that the nano would feel different than the Vapman since one is conduction and one is convection.

I'm not going to sit here and tell you the difference is massive and that you should take it into consideration when choosing a vape. The time it is the most noticeable is when a daily user has been using the same strain in the same vape for an extended period and then uses that same strain in another vape, particularly if they heat differently.

I can't say I've noticed anything with the difference in power sources...I don't think that matters. The problem is that @RUDE BOY is right...it's all subjective and anecdotal at this point.

The thread I linked to below appears to be a combination of several threads through the years talking about it, and I linked to the most recent discussion, which has some fascinating stuff in it that leads me to believe we may soon understand it.

http://fuckcombustion.com/threads/v...-selection-of-effects.1637/page-8#post-722255

 

[Mister G]

I am a strong believer in the Vape Signature theory based on my personal experiences with many different vaporizers. However, I believe it is purely subjective so can not be defined as an absolute. The way a specific vape makes me feel could be completely different to how it affects someone else's unique biochemistry, in this way, signature is tied to the user (similar to some get extreme anxiety from cannabis and others do not). I believe this is why some vapes that many report knock them out have done nothing for me when I tried them, for example, the VXL Evo doesn't do it for me at all but it is quite beloved by its community.

I think in order to fully understand vape signature one must also understand a user's cannabis signature.

 

[cybrguy]

I do know this. If my tolerance begins to creep up, I can either change vaporizers or even change the mode I'm using with a specific vape, as an example going from bubbler to transfer wand with my LSV, and it seems to reset my tolerance much in the same way as switching strains.

Leave it to you, @lwien, to get right to the reason, or the main reason anyway that I was curious about this concept. Living is a non-legal state I always have fewer if any option on the strains I can get, and I am constantly looking for ways manage tolerances without t-breaking and without changing strains. If these signatures are really noticeably different TO MY BODY, there is a greater chance I can use them to manage tolerances. If the difference is all mental, than I suspect (though it is only suspicion) that different signatures wouldn't really work for this.

Thanks, Lwein, this is a valuable data point. Lets see what else we get as there are obviously gonna be different views.

 

[stickstones]

I can notice a tolerance build up to a vape&strain in about two weeks. I have three vapes now that I keep in rotation and the more I mix them up the less I notice any build up. In fact, it'e been a long while since I noticed a build up.

 

[lwien]

If the difference is all mental, than I suspect (though it is only suspicion) that different signatures wouldn't really work for this.

Don't underestimate the power of the placebo affect for what you perceive mentally could have a very profound affect on you physically.

 

[t-dub]

Right now I am noticing a huge difference between Mighty/Crafty and EVO. Using EVO is like getting hit in the head with a feather pillow while Mighty/Crafty are like an angry swarm of killer bees on a methanol buzz. Torch vapes feel different to me as well. I use pretty much the same strain, Leda Uno, all the time so this may highlight the differences for me. I also feel the different ways a vape makes you inhale will effect things, its one of my theories on why Mighty/Crafty hit so hard, they make me inhale more deeply. EVO of course goes through water, however, even Mighty and Crafty when put through water feel differently to me.

 

[jojo monkey]

Why wouldn't different models hit differently? Do you think herb on a flat screen hits the same as herb loaded into a cork shape? Do you think a direct draw hits the same as a balloon? A 15w vs 60w? Milking vs a single draw? A dimmer/voltage regulator vs pid controller? Glass vs metal? Too often I see people only compare the type of heat.

IMO the difference in effect is due to the different levels of terpenes extracted. These are what give the subjective effects.

The problem i see is that there are too many under powered vapes that, while they make clouds, suck at extracting terpenes.

 

[cybrguy]

I also feel the different ways a vape makes you inhale will effect things, its one of my theories on why Mighty/Crafty hit so hard, they make me inhale more deeply.

This brings up another related question so sorry if I slightly derail for a sec, but in that very intersting video from Michael Backes he mentions that the method that most of us were taught to smoke pot, taking a huge hit and holding it as long as possible, is completely idiotic and we should stop doing it immediately. I can't help but wonder if the same thing is true for vaping. Should we really NOT be holding our hits? If his concern is the particulates in smoke than the same advice might not apply to vaping...
I keep meaning to find his email and ask him.

 

[lwien]

This brings up another related question so sorry if I slightly derail for a sec, but in that very intersting video from Michael Backes he mentions that the method that most of us were taught to smoke pot, taking a huge hit and holding it as long as possible, is completely idiotic and we should stop doing it immediately. I can't help but wonder if the same thing is true for vaping. Should we really NOT be holding our hits? If his concern is the particulates in smoke than the same advice might not apply to vaping...
I keep meaning to find his email and ask him.

For those that don't know, Michael, aka Morpheus, was the owner of my primary dispensary, CornerStone Research. I've had many hour long conversations with him anytime I went in there to make a purchase. Great guy.

I was there last week and picked up the book that they had that he's been working on for years. I highly recommend it. Some great reading on our favorite topics. Also makes for some great coffee table conversations:

Ok............back on topic......

 

[cybrguy]

Hey, please ask him when you see him.

 

[lwien]

Hey, please ask him when you see him.

The last time I spoke with him was over two years ago. He's no longer active in the dispensary but still very active within the industry. He pays a visit there every once in awhile, but it's really the luck of the draw if I'll run into him. He used to be there every day.

 

[t-dub]

So I was in the shower doing some thinking, some of my best thoughts occur to me there, and a list started to emerge in my mind for the things that could be in play here:

• Load size and orientation within the device
• Conduction/convection ratio
• Materials used in the vapor path and bowl
  
• Inhalation technique encouraged by the device
  
• Extraction capabilities of the device for cannabinoids and terpenes
• Heat source utilized and method of application of that heat to the load
  
• Vapor path length and design
  
• Cooling methods employed
• Draw resistance
• Particle size as it relates to lung absorption

I really think using one strain for a long time helps because it takes a very large variable out of the equation and lets the mind focus on what is relevant.

 

[CarolKing]

Well I got the whole idea of vape signature wrong. I thought it was the vaporizers that folks had written at the bottom of their posts pertaining to their collection of vaporizers.

It's interesting how different temperatures on various vaporizers feel differently. What one vaporizer feels at 365 degrees feels different with another vaporizer. I understand about the vapor path being longer or shorter. I would assume a shorter vaporizing path would be hotter. Maybe what the vaporizer is made with (materials) would make a difference, far as heat goes? We know it does with the taste.

 

[SSVUN~YAH]

Well I got the whole idea of vape signature wrong.

Me too I thought it was when an artist made a great vape they would sign it, # @Dan Morrison