What are the pros and cons with flower, oil and wax? Personally I like flower that's what I mostly use, because I have more access to it i guess. I have one friend who is only interested in using oil cartridges and I have another who uses flower but also lots waxes. I tried only once oil it was good and i also tried once wax which i liked more than the oil, Wax had lots of flavor from what I remember. I would like to hear from the FC community there thoughts.
What are the pros and cons with flower, oil and wax?
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shredder
Well-Known Member
Oil, wax and rosin smell less than herb. Depending on the product concentrates take less time and effort to get to the same place as a herb vape.
I have both types of vapes, herbol and concentrate, but mainly use rosin over wax or oil, for my concentrates since it's easy and safe to make at home.
I vape roughly 70% concentrates 30% herb.
No advice on cart vapes, I don't use them since they don't vape rosin well.
Gigsabits53
Well-Known Member
Agreed, I cant find any cons for any of them
bossman
Gentleman Of Leisure
I've avoided concentrates for the most part just to go easier on my tolerance. I don't want to lose my appreciation for flower or have to vape twice as much as I used to because I'm treating myself to dabs on the weekends or whatever. I think someone told me here a while back that a a bit of wax the size of a grain of rice has about as much THC on average as .3g of dry herb.Agreed, I cant find any cons for any of them
shredder
Well-Known Member
Depends on the wax and herb, but that might be a conservative estimate.
But you can micro dose with concentrates. I do it a lot. I can truly one hit and quit, with a decent buzz.
BabyFacedFinster
Anything worth doing, is worth overdoing.
This was the main reason I've become almost 100% concentrates. I only need a little bit and so that means less huffing and puffing on any vape, which can be harsh on my throat. I also produce rosin as my main source which has great flavor. I find concentrates in general create less smell, less charred bits of crap which get stuck all over everything and makes cleaning of parts a breeze.
I've been playing with quartz cups and donut coils, but a little rosin wrapped in organic cotton through my log vape or Fury 2 is still my most enjoyable and consistent method.
I did pick up a couple of ccell cartridges though. Not my idea of good flavor, but so damn handy and discrete. The whole set up slips in a shirt pocket and can produce massive rips.
Everyone has done great at the pros, so I'm gonna list some of what I consider cons.
Cons of flower is sessions are generally longer, your vaporizing lots of unresinous plant material which will create some combustion in your hit, hard to get a wide extraction without harsh convection air, hard to extract the higher boiling point compounds that chronic pain patients often need. Flower vapor is usually very dry, much more degradation flavors.
Cons of concentrates are knowing the quality when you didn't produce it yourself, consistent dosing can be tricky, concentration of unwanted things like pesticides and heavy metals, most of the solvent extracted stuff has a shallow high, the safety of concentrated terpenes are questionable. Most of the processing and production methods are questionable.
Cons of flower is sessions are generally longer, your vaporizing lots of unresinous plant material which will create some combustion in your hit, hard to get a wide extraction without harsh convection air, hard to extract the higher boiling point compounds that chronic pain patients often need. Flower vapor is usually very dry, much more degradation flavors.
Cons of concentrates are knowing the quality when you didn't produce it yourself, consistent dosing can be tricky, concentration of unwanted things like pesticides and heavy metals, most of the solvent extracted stuff has a shallow high, the safety of concentrated terpenes are questionable. Most of the processing and production methods are questionable.
shredder
Well-Known Member
A lot of people make the "full spectrum" argument. I'm not sure what they're talking about. Rosin has cannabinoids and terpenes, both in a concentrated form. What's missing? Plant material? Spectrum of what exactly?
And hash is a concentrate. I agree it's tasty, but I think it's closer to rosin than herb. Like a dry form of rosin. Just my opinion.
biohacker
H.R.E.A.M
IMHO all those "full spectrum" non solvent extracts feel "dirty" to me, just like flower. I could never go back to flower or solventless extracts. I vasty prefer high quality platinum processed full spectrum extracts. Full spectrum extracts are 'full spectrum" enough for me!
Also just happens to be the only way I can even enjoy using cannabis.
kuzko
Well-Known Member
There are over 400 different chemicals in the cannabis plant, it’s not all cannabinoids and terpenes. The Entourage effect of these chemicals on the consumers high can’t be overlooked. The science is not out yet on all of these chemicals, which ones are being stripped out during the concentration process, and how they effect the body.
Personally, no concentrate hits me like flower. I could back to back to back dab the finest sauce or live resin or rosin until the whole batch is gone but I still won’t be as stoned as a couple Volcano bags of flower. Not to mention my oil highs last about 30 minutes whereas flower highs last 2-3 hours.
Personally, no concentrate hits me like flower. I could back to back to back dab the finest sauce or live resin or rosin until the whole batch is gone but I still won’t be as stoned as a couple Volcano bags of flower. Not to mention my oil highs last about 30 minutes whereas flower highs last 2-3 hours.
Biggest con for me with flower is the smell. It hangs in the air much longer than concentrates.
Having been, just about, extract exclusive for a year I'd struggle to go back to weed.
I use weed for testing purposes and usually out in the shed but the smell fries my head.
Cons for extracts is flavour and effect as others have said.
I do have some very nice Orange Sorbet shatter that's the same flavour as the orange/tangie weed I've had. Mimosa shatter has been nice. But it's not the same as the taste from a bud.
Buzz is different.
Neither of the cons will sway me back.
Pros for weed have been mentioned.
Biggest pro with weed is you can turn it into extracts.
So far my tolerance has risen the tiniest amount. I've guaged it by money spent. Most of the time it's pound for pound.
I don't dab which may make a difference. Cellucotton and a VC so it's not the same kick in the head.
Having been, just about, extract exclusive for a year I'd struggle to go back to weed.
I use weed for testing purposes and usually out in the shed but the smell fries my head.
Cons for extracts is flavour and effect as others have said.
I do have some very nice Orange Sorbet shatter that's the same flavour as the orange/tangie weed I've had. Mimosa shatter has been nice. But it's not the same as the taste from a bud.
Buzz is different.
Neither of the cons will sway me back.
Pros for weed have been mentioned.
Biggest pro with weed is you can turn it into extracts.
So far my tolerance has risen the tiniest amount. I've guaged it by money spent. Most of the time it's pound for pound.
I don't dab which may make a difference. Cellucotton and a VC so it's not the same kick in the head.
No disrespect to anyone but I'm surprised at how much preference there is for oil and wax here. Smell and convenience are the only reasons I'd ever use it.
I feel like an old hippie set in his ways, but I don't plan to ever own any wax, oil, concentrates, etc. I've always liked the natural, organic feel of breathing in flower. It's like bud is a good slice of Swiss cheese and dabs are a can of cheese whiz. A flower high is always so much gentler for me, whereas a fat dab will often feel like a wrench to the face for me. I've also read that a dab's super high THC content poses more risk to the dopamine receptors than flower. Also, unless you're damn sure your dabs came from a great source, you can never really know if they're clean and free of butane.
I feel like an old hippie set in his ways, but I don't plan to ever own any wax, oil, concentrates, etc. I've always liked the natural, organic feel of breathing in flower. It's like bud is a good slice of Swiss cheese and dabs are a can of cheese whiz. A flower high is always so much gentler for me, whereas a fat dab will often feel like a wrench to the face for me. I've also read that a dab's super high THC content poses more risk to the dopamine receptors than flower. Also, unless you're damn sure your dabs came from a great source, you can never really know if they're clean and free of butane.
I must feel like an older hippie than you because historically speaking, almost all cannabis using cultures smoked hashish. Consuming whole flower is certainly an anomaly on the cannabis timeline, mostly practiced in North America.
Also vaped flower is a concentrate. (Hence, ABV)
And there's plenty of ways to make concentrates without butane, they've been doing it for over 10,000 years.
FYI Crumble is generally the very bottom of the barrel.
In my state you can get full melt hash or premium hash rosin for that much. It hits extremely similar to flower, minus the combustion that occurs when vaporizing dried herb - which certainly contributes to some of those "stony" effects people like. I would equate it to the people that come to FC from a bong smoking background and are having trouble getting used to more heady vapor high. Hash vapor is just the next progression of that lineage - and some folks miss those combusted sugars, tannins, chlorophyll, etc.
darbarikanada
Well-Known Member
I don't understand. what combusts at vaping temps?
Like homeboy above said, there's over 400 compounds in cannabis. Some of these compounds (such as starches, sugars, tannins, and chlorophyll) burn at what we deem "vaporization temperature." That's why flower vapor is so much denser and lingering in smell than concentrate vapor. This is also why concentrate vaporists don't like to mix water pipes, as the flower vapor smells are pretty overpowering. I could hit my oil rig for 6 months without cleaning and it wouldn't smell as stinky as one flowerpot hit. When you compare them side by side the combustion flavors are pretty apparent.
Is it as noticeable as a smoke bong? No. But definitely there.
Home grown real organic flower is all good, but with the way most stuff is being grown these days I don't wanna vape any of that plant material.
I also theorize that solventless extracts do not concentrate pesticides in the same degree as vaped flower or solvent extracts but that is just a theory.
C No Ego
Well-Known Member
here is the cannabis parts list - 568 total constituent parts, 148 of those constituents are cannabinoids ( phytocannabinoids) .. 568 minus 148 = 420
phenols, esters , waxes, flavinoids ,( cannafavin a) a multitude of terpenophilc compounds... the plant is very complex and the more metabolic response you receive form the plant via ingestion the more complex the effects eTC.....
report = page 9 shows the constituents... we have found a few more since
https://stuartcommunity.com/marijuana-use-for-medicine/
phenols, esters , waxes, flavinoids ,( cannafavin a) a multitude of terpenophilc compounds... the plant is very complex and the more metabolic response you receive form the plant via ingestion the more complex the effects eTC.....
report = page 9 shows the constituents... we have found a few more since
https://stuartcommunity.com/marijuana-use-for-medicine/
shredder
Well-Known Member
Funny, I always thought this site has a bias towards flower, lol.
Just like vaping herb a lot of the vaping experience is enhanced or degraded by the device. There are a lot more herb vapes. But concentrate vapes are quickly coming on board and getting better almost daily.
I'm an old hippy as well and I felt the way you do several years ago. My only experiences with concentrates were pretty rough. But once I bought a decent enail rig (sic halo), and now with a saionara for a portable I'm now about 70% concentrates in my usage.
So old dogs can learn new tricks.
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Baron23
Well-Known Member
So, this is just me and I have absolutely no desire to debate anyone on this. We all do what we find OUR brains/bodies like best.
For me, that continues to be flower. I do find the effects to be more well rounded and holistic.
I agree that part of the OG thinking with concentrates, particularly for med patients, was that they reduced the amount of draws of hot air taken into the lungs.
Balance that against most 'trates being like taking a baseball bat to your endocannabinoid receptors. Don't believe me, talk to your doc. I believe Dr. Sulak (all over the net) has something to say about this.
As for rosin.....I have a press....I like my rosin, but I do not feel that it really preserves all of the more fragile compounds in MJ many of which are evaporated or damaged even at the relatively low temps we press at. Terps in particular, are very volitile.
Yes, in my med legal state we now have for sale "full spectrum" 'trates. They add in terps, either from the same MJ crop or otherwise....can't really tell. To me, they often taste artificial and I find high levels of terpenes (high being a LOT more than the 1-2% found in well grown flower) to be irritating to my sinuses and lungs. I had one High Terpene Full Spectrum Extract (HTFSE) that tasted like Lemon Pledge smells. Had 11% Limonene!! sigh
I don't see this as an issue to advocate for one way or the other. We all need to do what we find works best for us. For me, that's about 80% flower and 20% 'trates.
For me, that continues to be flower. I do find the effects to be more well rounded and holistic.
I agree that part of the OG thinking with concentrates, particularly for med patients, was that they reduced the amount of draws of hot air taken into the lungs.
Balance that against most 'trates being like taking a baseball bat to your endocannabinoid receptors. Don't believe me, talk to your doc. I believe Dr. Sulak (all over the net) has something to say about this.
As for rosin.....I have a press....I like my rosin, but I do not feel that it really preserves all of the more fragile compounds in MJ many of which are evaporated or damaged even at the relatively low temps we press at. Terps in particular, are very volitile.
Yes, in my med legal state we now have for sale "full spectrum" 'trates. They add in terps, either from the same MJ crop or otherwise....can't really tell. To me, they often taste artificial and I find high levels of terpenes (high being a LOT more than the 1-2% found in well grown flower) to be irritating to my sinuses and lungs. I had one High Terpene Full Spectrum Extract (HTFSE) that tasted like Lemon Pledge smells. Had 11% Limonene!! sigh
I don't see this as an issue to advocate for one way or the other. We all need to do what we find works best for us. For me, that's about 80% flower and 20% 'trates.
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PPN
Volute of Vapor
Maybe this only to see with personnal preferences... like @kuzko I assume flowers hits me harder than concentrates, at least in duration of effects except for high quality hasch which are the most powerfull for me.IMHO all those "full spectrum" non solvent extracts feel "dirty" to me, just like flower. I could never go back to flower or solventless extracts. I vasty prefer high quality platinum processed full spectrum extracts. Full spectrum extracts are 'full spectrum" enough for me!
Also just happens to be the only way I can even enjoy using cannabis.
I like the concentrate high for day time and when I need to be tonic and focused but absolutly not for physical relaxation.
biohacker
H.R.E.A.M
IMO this is likely due to the same reasons why some combusters don't like transitioning to vapour, because they don't feel as "stoned".
I used to think the same thing, for well over a decade, until I became allergic!
Clever! I wonder just how many of those are actually UNdesirable? Like phytoestrogens? Isn't ALL the medicine in the actual trichs and not the plant? And if so, why wouldn't sift/kief/hash be the holy grail?This, big time! I simply can't handle flower vapour anymore. And i've tried every vaporizer on the market, several times.
Why? My dabs are about 0.03g, which is equivalent to less than 1/4g of flower. What's the difference between my dab off of a ruby surface, and say an Invertedisdead rip through the FlowerPot? Other than flavour , smoothness, and effects of course! Talk to my doc?
Curious on the Dr Sulak as i'm a big fan, but I haven't come across him saying that. I've been on high quality extracts exclusively for well over a year now, and my health is much better than when trying to inhale 2.5g of flower vapour a day. Much prefer my <.2g extract (and that's on a big day).Not down with the HTE either.... always go for the HCE!!!