Vriptech Water Tool - What would you change?

[stonemonkey55]

I posted this in the VHW thread but Mark wanted to get a little more feedback from the rest of you guys on this forum that might not be reading that particular thread. Above is a picture of their current pro model water tool. He is getting rid of the middle of the line VWT and replacing it with a new, high end piece. He?s currently working thru a few different configurations and wants to know what you guys would want in the next gen, high end water tool. He would like to keep the general shape, but the feedback from the other thread was that most people didn?t like the kink in the neck. The kink is there for better ergonomics when vaporizing but is it a turn off as well? Are there certain types of percs or diffs that you like better than others? He would also like to keep the size about the same (12 inches, didn?t want a super long vapor path) but wouldn?t mind going bigger or smaller a few inches. Asides from that, let your imagination go wild.

 

[Acolyte of Zinglon]

quite honestly, any more than one filtering through water is unneccesary with vapor, so percs and such wouldnt be that great

beyond that, i think that if he really wants to expnd, he should offer a tube, and the beaker shape but in different sizes, with/without the bend, and different sizes/types of connectors

 

[partially veiled]

- If you want to keep the "beaker style" look and the current general shape, then you could simply offer the same type of water reservoir/base, but perhaps offer both straight neck and bent neck versions. I don't think there is really anything wrong with the base right now...it looks sturdy enough I suppose? I like the current design of the water reservoir/base, but would prefer to see it with a straight neck, starting with a getle taper after the water reservoir/down stem. I think that this straight necked feel is more ergonomic for me, but I haven't used the VHW yet...so that may not be true with this tool? I don't know...

- I agree with AofZ that percs are probably not necessary here. It just seems needless with vapor, especially when you already have the option of water cooling/filtration/vapor moisturizing and ice cooling...I would like to see the option for a diffuser down stem, however. I don't know what type of design would be best for the pipe's configuration...holes or slits or what...but we could definitely come up with something. Smart people here.

- If you want the new VWT to be high-end, then concentrate on quality, thick glass, and consistent and sturdy workmanship. Nice GonG joints, nice clean welds (especially in the down stem area...make this sturdy, reinforced, well "centered" and resistant to accidents), an elegant design and well thought out layout. For instance, make sure the down stem will be pointing to the most advantageous position in the reservoir, that sort of stuff.

- GonG is going to be important to a lot of people who are used to glass, especially "high end glass", so you may as well factor this right into the design. I would vote for high quality (thick, sturdy GonG, not weak worrisome stuff) 18.8mm joints myself, but those sort of intricacies are something I'm sure VripTech is smart enough to figure out. 12 inches is on the smaller end of the large water pipe height spectrum, which isn't a bad thing (especially with vapor), so maybe 14.5mm would be the better choice. I dunno, I'm sure VripTech can work something out. I would say put the emphasis on making the construction/vapor path very well thought out and well executed, and then you're pulling it off. Again: THICK glass and solid construction. This is what makes a piece of functional glass art "pop", in my mind. Clean, sturdy lines/designs and a good feel; a solidness that has a certain balance in the hand and an appropriate weight when being used.

- Again, thick glass is a key thing (in my mind); if you're making an investment in a glass piece you probably want it to last for a long time, I know I do...this is definitely not the sort of thing I can afford to buy every day. I won't say how thick is thick enough, because that's pretty subjective...I happen to think 5mm is perfectly sufficient and desirable, but that is of course just my biased , and in reality anything 3.5mm and beyond is probably more than sufficient for most users...but I will say that thick glass is super, super important IMO. I don't want to invest in something like this only to loose it some time down the road...remember the contexts these pieces find themselves in and if you want to offer a superb experience then safety and durability has to be a factor as well.

- I personally do not like the current ice catch configuration. I know that this is another subjective viewpoint and others might care less or more, or feel however different about another design, but I personally like the "traditional" (just a convenient word really) 3 sided inward pinch design. I would love to see this type of ice catch positioned slightly above the beginning of where the tube starts to straighten out, leaving some room for you hand to comfortably grip the piece.

- Is it possible to make a version of the VCB which is more like a GonG bowl, so that you can just take that on and off to clear the pipe, instead of using a grommet and smaller slide? I would love to see GonG everywhere possible on a high end VripTech piece, and I'd imagine getting rid of the secondary slide that goes into the down stem (as in the current design) would probably open up the air flow more and make it feel more like hitting a non-vapor water pipe. That said, I do realize there are benefits to both methods... Anyway, I think with thick GonG and careful treatment, wear isn't as much of an issue.


I think that's it. I made a super-ultra cheap, MacGuyver-ish set up for my SSV tonight: water filtration/cooling using a mason jar, my wand, two lengths of tubing and a mouthpiece.

 

[stonemonkey55]

AofZ and PV - Thank you very much for the feedback, it was very useful and I'm sure after we collect a few more opinions, Mark will be very interested in reading what our forum would like. So this is what I know so far, they are going to use 7 mm thick glass (PV, did you want the next water tool to be thicker? lol) and will have some sort of perc/diff. I took a pic of mine with some crushed ice, then I took some nice vapes

PV - I never really noticed the ice catch being something that gave me a reaction. After I read what you had to say, I went to go take a look at and discovered that three of your fingers fit into that area where the ice catch is. Sometimes I hold it by the base but when I hold it around the neck, I definitely use that little area. Aesthetically I don't mind it, but I wouldn't be sad if they went to a traditional three pronged ice catch as well.

 

[Progress]

SM, I have used the VPWT with the heat gun (as well as a bic ) and really like the design as it is. Overall, I'd focus mainly on perfecting/producing the wand and try to make it compatible with as much of what is available in the glass market as possible (EHLE, RooR, Illadelph, PUR, etc...). However, that does not really answer the questions you posed, so...

SM - The kink is there for better ergonomics when vaporizing but is it a turn off as well?

If you mean the kink to be the bend in the neck of the tube, then I'd prefer it to be straight, but that is because I am a habitual tilter (especially with a beaker-bottom piece ). If you are talking about the ice catcher dips, I like them as is (for ice and to contain the 'action').

SM - Are there certain types of percs or diffs that you like better than others?

As far as a perc goes, I'd leave that up to the owner to get as an accessory. People have differing preferences and the current glass market seems to border on flooded with competition.

SM - He would also like to keep the size about the same (12 inches, didn?t want a super long vapor path) but wouldn?t mind going bigger or smaller a few inches.

I like that size, but he could offer a King/Champion/etc. size if there appeared to be a worthwhile demand from the 'heavy hitters'. Maybe even some sort of mini or compatible hand-held for old-heads like my friends and I .

PV - If you want the new VWT to be high-end, then concentrate on quality, thick glass, and consistent and sturdy workmanship. Nice GonG joints, nice clean welds (especially in the down stem area...make this sturdy, reinforced, well "centered" and resistant to accidents), an elegant design and well thought out layout. For instance, make sure the down stem will be pointing to the most advantageous position in the reservoir, that sort of stuff.

I also feel focusing on quality, consistency, and reliability is important (PV, you never seem to disappoint when it comes to having some unique, valuable insight )

PV - - GonG is going to be important to a lot of people who are used to glass, especially "high end glass", so you may as well factor this right into the design.

I agree. I also think that it is always better to use the larger gong sizes (adapters that shrink gongs seem to create fewer performance issues than those that work the other way around)

PV - Is it possible to make a version of the VCB which is more like a GonG bowl, so that you can just take that on and off to clear the pipe, instead of using a grommet and smaller slide? I would love to see GonG everywhere possible on a high end VripTech piece, and I'd imagine getting rid of the secondary slide that goes into the down stem (as in the current design) would probably open up the air flow more and make it feel more like hitting a non-vapor water pipe. That said, I do realize there are benefits to both methods... Anyway, I think with thick GonG and careful treatment, wear isn't as much of an issue.

I agree. I actually suggested (and still strongly recommend, IMO) this idea (previously shared in the VHW thread): IMO...It seems like a viable option would be to have a large GonG permanantly attached to the top of the filling chamber instead of the part currently with the logo (the part he is having trouble with, right?...Side note: IMO he should definitely offer a male GonG bottom instead of the standard slide with ring stet-up). Additionally, the heating element could have a non-GonG cone that would comfortably/safely mate with the GonG that is attached to the top of the filling chamber. In particular, it would only seal at the bottom of the GonG (where it gets skinniest) I proposed to attach to the filling chamber (picture the tip of a dull pencil entering the end of a straw, but not fitting in...it would just touch the skinniest part of the GonG that is attached to the top of the filling chamber instead of the part with the logo), so it could wobble/rotate (unless you wanted to slide the silicone down for a tighter seal and more stability..in this case the silicone-coated glass, being thicker, would seal at the top of the GonG joint. Sorry SM, you said to let our imaginations go wild .

Seriously though, I do think that the VCB set-up is by-far the weakest link (non-glass parts, things to fumble with/secure/break?)

The tool itself is the really the most important part IMO (especially if the parts are compatible with other tools--propriatory shit bothers me ). I don't really need any more glass and possibly would not even use the VWT if I get the VHW (others may feel the same?). On a related note, I always found it strange/uncool that the Herborizer is not much cheaper without the water chamber .

I have some insight into the production feasibility of various designs, but would defer to those producing the components regarding such logistical issues (although I have a lot of respect for Mark inquiring into what the public wants--at least through his monkey --and making efforts to keep his products evolving ).

Hope this helps.

Toke it...ah, fuck-it JUST TOKE IT !

 

[stonemonkey55]

Seriously though, I do think that the VCB set-up is by-far the weakest link (non-glass parts, things to fumble with/secure/break?)

Progress, good to hear from you! I have addressed that issue (lower intake being gong) with Mark as well as a couple of other people from this forum so he said that is indeed on the way. He's got bandwidth issues so hopefully he can spend more cycles on this when things clear up.

 

[partially veiled]

TY for the kind words Progress.

I see what both of you are saying about the ice catch, and that's sort of what my disclaimer was related to: this is almost more of an item of aesthetic preference than it is of functional preference. I like the pinches because normally there is room to hold the pipe comfortably without directly touching the cold glass (I like the ice catch to sit a little higher in the tube). I haven't tried the VWT yet, but I bet I'm going to like it just as much as any other high quality piece I've used. I too really like the current design of the VWT Pro (I am picking one of these up from VripTech...I'm also getting a custom EHLE, but that's another story ), and I don't think it needs much tweaking to be a "high end" glass piece. I already think it's a steal for the glass thickness (4mm, and I believe the base might be thicker?) and the functionality.

These sorts of opinions are why so much of the glass market, the high end high priced glass market that is, is about customization...it's all so personal. I think 7mm is crazy thick and that's awesome haha seriously, that makes me from ear to ear...I'm sure Mark will still have a good price on it, so the VripTech VHW/VCB/VWT Pro Pro (haha don't know what else to call it) combo will no doubt be slick as hell. I personally am really looking forward to seeing GonG modular pieces, such as a GonG VCB etc. That would be sweet.

However, I also agree that the focus at VripTech should be on the VHW and quality control etc. I said as much to Mark, as well. I have no doubt that this tool, properly executed, could convert a lot of die hard rippers to vapor. I have a lot of high expectations for the VHW, so I'd love to see an updated version of the VCB that just completes the "all glass" theme.


Edit: Progress if I understand you right, I don't know that I agree. I don't necessarily think a GonG attachment from the VHW to the VCB is desirable or necessary. It seems like the tool, as is currently designed, would make the whole configuration awkward if there were too many GonG joints trying to support the tool when mounted on the VCB. The diffuser, VCB, VHW arm would be way longer than the pipe itself! This would just feel awkward, I think. I would also worry about gravity intervening and causing an accident...

My opinion relative to this whole question is generally "keep it as close to the bong ritual as possible and you'll convert more die hard users" In this spirit, and in my own personal preference, I would rather use a VCB to VHW connection more like the current one, where it is as air tight as possible without being GonG. I don't know, unless I'm confused on how it would work I just think it would be too much of a pain to take out two GonG attachments if you want to clear a hit. Or to have to pull out and put down the VCB and VHW attached together just to clear a hit. It just seems awkward to me. I'd prefer to be able to just remove the VHW from the VCB (easily and without resistance, just like taking the lighter off a bowl), hold that carefully in my hand or put it down while pulling out a GonG VCB to carb or clear the bong. That is generally how I like to use things though: I am a hands on guy, and not a hands free guy. All of this being told, the beauty of this whole VripTech set up (besides the unique design and all glass vapor path, of course) is that all of the pieces are modular, so if they eventually came out with a GonG piece for the VHW and a matching VCB, that might be interesting and tempt me enough to give it a try...if the price was right. It's all about options in this "high end" market, it seems...privilege is a nice thing, isn't it now hmmmmmmmmm...

The way I envision the connection would be: water pipe with 18.8mm GonG joint --> GonG diffuser down stem --> GonG VCB (this would be a one piece VCB, where the lower part of the VCB would be the male end of the GonG joint which goes into the top/inside, female end of the diffuser GonG joint, as on a conventional GonG bong). Therefore you could just pop the one piece VCB off the diffuser to clear your hit, again like removing a traditional GonG cone. Oh yes, and I'd also love to see a one piece VCB that could fit some type of glass screen, either one developed by VripTech or one currently available (in the style of what RooR, EHLE or Weedstar, probably many others, already make). That would be a true ALL GLASS vapor path...hehehe

 

[Acolyte of Zinglon]

i would really consider making it 14-16 inches, thats not that much longer, but it would make it seem more impressive, the 12 inch size seems a bit small and it would be nice to have a larger option, as overall i like the aesthetics of the vriptech water tools

usually for size in a waterpipe, i would look for something that i could have the base sitting in my lap, and be able to comfortably hit it without bending my neck down too much

 

[stonemonkey55]

PV - Ani DiFranco's quote is exactly how I feel about the VHW. Soon enough, you and the rest of the gang are gonna be able to experience what I've been over indulging on. At first, I'm not gonna lie, I felt pretty special about getting my hands first on one of these bad boys, but after a while, it just felt lonely being the only person. Anyhow, last I heard, they are currently in assembly and should be going out shortly.

I've been very meticulous about cleaning my water tool weekly, and making sure the water is always fresh and filtered. Been freezing the ice cubes with purified water as well to keep with the "clean" glass theme. The results are flavor rich vapors that feel so good to your lungs, you wonder if you're getting any vapor at all. Then you exhale and see this huge clouds of vapor, relax and grin, give thanks, and take another one. Thanks again for the feedback

 

[Acolyte of Zinglon]

Anyhow, last I heard, they are currently in assembly and should be going out shortly.

excellent news, im really looking forward to getting mine

 

[partially veiled]

PV - Ani DiFranco's quote is exactly how I feel about the VHW. Soon enough, you and the rest of the gang are gonna be able to experience what I've been over indulging on. At first, I'm not gonna lie, I felt pretty special about getting my hands first on one of these bad boys, but after a while, it just felt lonely being the only person. Anyhow, last I heard, they are currently in assembly and should be going out shortly.

Thanks SM

I've been keeping up with Mark as well, and he's been keeping my hopes up about a VHW with my name on it being ready to go some time soon, so I'd say you're right it's not long now! I'm really excited to try this out...and we'll have to get around to starting an official thread in the Model Specific Discussion area of the forums. I'm looking forward to the learning curve with a new vaporizer again...all of this new "discovery" in the last few months has done a lot to change up my ritual and make it all that much more exciting, so I can't wait to give the VHW a spin and see where that takes me!!

I also really like that Mark really wants to hear what people have to say...I think it's smart on his end but it's also a good way of doing things in general. It's a great thing when you can see something that's truly representative of how the community feels, being offered for a fair price back to the community...yeah man, I'd call that a service.

AofZ I agree that a larger pipe would be nice...I personally like the idea of around 14" for our purposes with vapor (I believe you feel similar, no?), but I also have nothing wrong with something around the size of the current VWT or maybe in between the current size and a 14" size. I don't think it would ever need to be bigger than that though...again, heat doesn't seem to be as much of a battle with vapor...I don't know, I just don't think they need to develop too many options, otherwise you'll just end up competing directly with the big bong makers, and that's not really feasible: that's what those people do, all the time...whereas VripTech's focus should be on giving the best vaporization experience possible, and the focus should therefore be on the parts...the water tool is a secondary concern IMO. A very important one and I think it's important for VripTech to offer something so that people can buy everything they need directly from VripTech and start using their new vaporizer the day they open it up...but don't think you need TOO many options, lengths, etc. The focus should still be on vaporizer technology, not so much on the water pipes.

 

[Progress]

PV - Progress if I understand you right, I don't know that I agree. I don't necessarily think a GonG attachment from the VHW to the VCB is desirable or necessary. It seems like the tool, as is currently designed, would make the whole configuration awkward if there were too many GonG joints trying to support the tool when mounted on the VCB. The diffuser, VCB, VHW arm would be way longer than the pipe itself! This would just feel awkward, I think. I would also worry about gravity intervening and causing an accident...

I believe you misunderstood me slightly. I agree that the VHW and VCB should not attach via GonG. This was unclear for SM as well (I believe). I later added what is included below to help clarify (should have included this in the first place )

I also thought that the last part of my description could have been clearer (I said: "Additionally, the heating element could have a non-GonG cone that would comfortably/safely mate with the GonG that is attached to the top of the filling chamber. In particular, it would only seal at the bottom of the GonG (where it gets skinniest) I proposed to attach to the filling chamber (picture the tip of a dull pencil entering the end of a straw, but not fitting in...it would just touch the skinniest part of the GonG that is attached to the top of the filling chamber instead of the part with the logo), so it could wobble/rotate (unless you wanted to slide the silicone down for a tighter seal and more stability..in this case the silicone-coated glass, being thicker, would seal at the top of the GonG joint).")

When I said to picture the tip of a sharpened pencil going into a straw, the entrance of the straw represented the circumfrance of the bottom of the GonG attachment (if the pencil has a longer point, it sticks further into the straw...more blunt/less far in). However, the cone at the bottom of the VHW would only make contact at the bottom of the GonG joint but extend slightly beyond it (hence ability to rotate it and point the air stream better--this ring of contact is plenty to keep it airtight ). This set up would allow a tight/sturdy seal that should be pretty easy to replicate and won't stick together while in use. I think I clearly described the part about sliding the silicone down the VHW just so far that the cone at the bottom of the VHW and the GonG joint attached to the top of the filling chamber barely do not meet when mated (instead being sealed at the top of the GonG joint by the silicone sleeve).

 

[Acolyte of Zinglon]

pv- yes i think around 14 inches is the ideal size for vapor, its large enough to be visually impressive, yet not so long that condensation becomes too much of a problem

kinda unrelated- im dramatically reducing my intake over the next couple weeks in anticipation for the vhw, nothing like a little ritual to make something seem more special its weird i know, but im looking forward to revaping my pd duff that ive collected through the vhw, but im really looking forward to using the vhw at the higher temps on some of my indica

 

[partially veiled]

AofZ: on an equally unrelated note, I hear you man. As I said I built a little bubbler for my SSV, so I'm enjoying water cooled vapor ATM; this was particularly important because, after taking a break from using herb altogether, even vapor had begun to feel hot to my lungs. Using my SSV was actually pretty harsh. With water I can take huge hits, hit way harder and get massive clouds. I'm really, really looking forward to using the VHW to take the ritual that one step more...I really hope it can live up to my expectations

Seriously though the tolerance break is a good idea, it's easier than it seems and it just makes everything that much better when you do get to use your new tool. It's a respectful and healtful thing to do for your plant of choice and your body, and you get rewarded in the end, anyway

Patience is a virtue...although waiting for this wand is sort of hard!!

 

[stonemonkey55]

PV - For instance, make sure the down stem will be pointing to the most advantageous position in the reservoir, that sort of stuff.

Could you elaborate on what the most advantageous position would be? The middle?

I would like to see the option for a diffuser down stem,

Mark confirmed this piece as well! Would slits be better than holes?

 

[Acolyte of Zinglon]

PV - For instance, make sure the down stem will be pointing to the most advantageous position in the reservoir, that sort of stuff.

Could you elaborate on what the most advantageous position would be? The middle?

the most advantageous spot would be more towards the back i would think, so that you can tilt it back and still have it submerged completely

 

[stonemonkey55]

(although I have a lot of respect for Mark inquiring into what the public wants--at least through his monkey -- and making efforts to keep his products evolving).

That's pretty damn funny

the most advantageous spot would be more towards the back i would think, so that you can tilt it back and still have it submerged completely

Thats where it is now!! I thought I read somewhere that the middle of the base is the best spot as well so if you tilt, the down stem is immersed at relatively the same level whether standing straight up or tilting backward

 

[Hennessy1414]

I didnt read all of the responses (you guys write books worth) but I would suggest adding the option for a flame polished logo with VRIP TECH down or up the tube...heres an idea for ya...

(more flame polished tubes..VERY NICE)
http://www.unsaccodicanapa.com/roor_photo_gallery/flamemilk.gif
http://www.unsaccodicanapa.com/roor_photo_gallery/flame.gif
http://www.unsaccodicanapa.com/roor_photo_gallery/i-phone1.gif

real classy..a real babe if ya ask me

 

[hazy]

I'll offer my admittedly humble opinion here, as I haven't owned a bong for many years, and they've evolved a bit since then. I agree with others that the neck should be straight, as I always want to tilt the bong. I understand that in some circumstances it can be handy to have the kink, but I've used similar in the past and always felt a bit strange kind of pushing forward on the bong. Although I generally like things to be more compact, I also agree with the call for a 14" length. From what I can tell, those extra two inches seem to make the bonging position much less hunched (I'm 6ft). The shape of the base is good as it is. A diffuser down stem is a must, those bubbles need to be as small as possible. Isn't the consensus that slits are better? I saw a video around here somewhere showing the different types but I can't find it now.

 

[Hennessy1414]

I'll offer my admittedly humble opinion here, as I haven't owned a bong for many years, and they've evolved a bit since then. I agree with others that the neck should be straight, as I always want to tilt the bong. I understand that in some circumstances it can be handy to have the kink, but I've used similar in the past and always felt a bit strange kind of pushing forward on the bong. Although I generally like things to be more compact, I also agree with the call for a 14" length. From what I can tell, those extra two inches seem to make the bonging position much less hunched (I'm 6ft). The shape of the base is good as it is. A diffuser down stem is a must, those bubbles need to be as small as possible. Isn't the consensus that slits are better? I saw a video around here somewhere showing the different types but I can't find it now.

eah i compared a drilled diffused downstem(round lil holes) VS. my illadelphs slitted diffuser..looked just like the one the 'cut' the smoke...the one with the tiny holes hit better than the illadelph slide..so no ...it really matters how many holes there are.

 

[Costanza]

Considering that it's still in the brainstorming stage, I'm assuming that this new water tool's going to come out a while after the VHW does?
I was planning on buying the VWT Pro with the VHW but now I'd want this one. :/

As for the design, I agree that it'd be much more comfortable to be able to set it on your lap or seat while hitting it instead of having to hold everything. But if it reduces the vapor:air ratio by any significant amount then I'd rather it stay the same.
I do like the beaker style and if it stays at 12'' then I'd prefer the kink in the neck. But if it were taller then I'd like it straight.

 

[stonemonkey55]

thanks for all the feedback guys!

Costanza - not sure what the ETA is for the next gen water tool. Hopefully we can get enough responses where Mark feels comfortable to go with a specific design. Also, that is an excellent point about size and how it can sit in your lap versus having to hold everything

So far, the general consensus seems to be that percs are a bit overkill but a downstem with a diffusser would be great. The general shape is good but if it had a straight neck it would be better. Also, a tad bigger, maybe 13-16 inches with thick glass.

Check out this drawing, I was trying to figure out how to make the tube straight while still keeping it somewhat ergo. Feel free to rip my design to shreds as I'm not a designer, but the way I picture it in my mind would be really cool. It has the look like it is kinda going forward and when you hold it in your palm, it would be perfectly angled for vaping...

 

[Acolyte of Zinglon]

that looks... precariously balanced, and potentially awkward to use

seriously, what ergonomically wrong with just a straight tube with a beaker bottom... no need to reinvent the wheel

 

[stonemonkey55]

Really? oh well, I'm not a designer...lol, I just figured the water would more than make up for the weight of the tilting tube, the tube is angled so you will only have to tilt your head slightly downwards.... oh well, strike one for me...

 

[SpiralArchitect]

I think it looks cool.

I have drawing class today, so I'll doodle some stuff and get back to you.... I like all a lot of the ideas so far. Dont worry, my teacher is a Dead Head.

A 'crown' is something I'd really like (as pictured on that first RooR Henn posted).

And he is keeping the round bottoms? No straight tubes?