I am a 57 yr old cannabis enthusiast who is also an athlete, so optimal respiratory health is of vital importance for me. I have not smoked cannabis in over 5 years, and have relied on baking my high grade, organic connoisseur quality herb for health reasons. Over the last few years the thought of vapourization intriged me because of the ability to deliver the medicinal qualities of cannabis quickly, void of combustion. This curiosity led me to purchase a digital volcano. However, after using the vapourizer over the span of a month consuming .5 grams daily, I am experiencing declining repiratory health. My lungs are not functioning to their full capacity, and my throat has a sticky film in it. My volcano is set at 365 F, so combustion is not a factor, but my throat and lung discomfort are causing me concern. I do not dispute that vapourization is a superior choice to smoking, however, my negative respiratory symptoms are leading me to question whether vapourization is an entirely safe mode of delivery. What are your thoughts on this issue? Advice is greatly appreciated. Thanks!
Vapourization and respiratory health?
- Thread starter Baker Reg
- Start date
Egzoset
Banned
Salutations Baker Reg,
Personally, i've discovered after a while that i prefer suitably moisturized cannabic vapour.
Personally, i've discovered after a while that i prefer suitably moisturized cannabic vapour.
lwien
Well-Known Member
Is vaporization "entirely" safe? Nope. Inhaling anything but clean air and or pure oxygen is not entirely safe, but it sure as hell is safer than smoking.
I'm 12 years older than you. I vape every single night and run 20 miles a week. No problems (knocking on wood), but then, you vape .5grams a day, where as I only vape one tenth of that a day (.05gr) so you vape 10 times as much as I do on a daily basis.
Are you using MJ to address any medical issues? If not and you are only using it recreationally, know that a bag vape, any bag vape, is typically, not as efficient to use, than say a log vape like an Underdog.
We're all built a bit different and so vapor is going to affect us all a bit differently, but your age and the fact that you haven't smoked in 5 years but yet vaping a half a gram a day may be the issue.
I'm 12 years older than you. I vape every single night and run 20 miles a week. No problems (knocking on wood), but then, you vape .5grams a day, where as I only vape one tenth of that a day (.05gr) so you vape 10 times as much as I do on a daily basis.
Are you using MJ to address any medical issues? If not and you are only using it recreationally, know that a bag vape, any bag vape, is typically, not as efficient to use, than say a log vape like an Underdog.
We're all built a bit different and so vapor is going to affect us all a bit differently, but your age and the fact that you haven't smoked in 5 years but yet vaping a half a gram a day may be the issue.
VaporsVaporizer
On the Stoop
I think your issue is the Volcano. I have one, it was my first vape. It's a powerhouse and produces a huge volume of vapor but it's very harsh. When i first started using it 11 years ago , it was better than combusting for me since i have Emphysema, but it wasn't perfect .
Things have come a long way in the last 10 years and my advice is to either buy a better vape or look for a way to filter those Volcano bags through water.
I hardly ever use my Volcano anymore since i have the Solo and i still use my Pax outside and they are much better for my lungs-especially the Solo.
I'd do a quick search for video's or just buy some tubing and hook those bags to a water pipe.
I vape almost a gram or more a day and my pulmonologist has NO CLUE
As far as if i think it's safe, well it's my safest option, but there are no studies verifying that it's perfectly safe.
Things have come a long way in the last 10 years and my advice is to either buy a better vape or look for a way to filter those Volcano bags through water.
I hardly ever use my Volcano anymore since i have the Solo and i still use my Pax outside and they are much better for my lungs-especially the Solo.
I'd do a quick search for video's or just buy some tubing and hook those bags to a water pipe.
I vape almost a gram or more a day and my pulmonologist has NO CLUE
As far as if i think it's safe, well it's my safest option, but there are no studies verifying that it's perfectly safe.
Jahannum
(｡´∀｀)ﾉ
Well let me share my experience and how Vapor won me over.
I stopped smoking tobacco 3 years ago(permenately) and also took a 4-5 month T break while I got my lungs back into perfect shape. I also started running 4miles every single day when I quit tobacco. After my T break I started to notice a very subtle decline of my lungs due to MJ smoke, albeit not near as bad as tobacco, but it was still there.
Skip ahead to 2 weeks ago and I am sick of the cumulative effect smoking MJ was causing on my breathing, especially when I run(Also noticed a shallowness in my breathing). I came to the conclusion that I was not going to smoke anymore, but I also did not want to lose MJ. Went to a local CK secrets and bought an el cheapo vape to give vaporisation a try(did not want to spend big, just test the water, then search for a quality product if I liked it).
The results to me were quite pleasing! While I still did not have my technique down completely and was not getting an optimal high, 2-3 days into vaping and I could feel my lungs opening up big time, in a great way. They opened at a rate faster than when I just quit smoking tobacco and had that T break a few years back(think the THC in pure form without all those nasty combustion byproducts actually helped open my lungs up to purify faster).
I am now 2 weeks 1 day into Vaping and have a DBV arriving in the mail tommorrow and am looking to buy a MFLB for a good portable. Now when I dump out my cashed bowls of ABV, I cannot believe I was cool with inhaling all of that stuff. If I knew what I know now, how many years I would not of spent smoking....
But everyone experiences things differently. For me vaping has salvaged the joy and pleasure I get from MJ while still not taking away from my health and allowing me to push myself even harder during my runs.
I stopped smoking tobacco 3 years ago(permenately) and also took a 4-5 month T break while I got my lungs back into perfect shape. I also started running 4miles every single day when I quit tobacco. After my T break I started to notice a very subtle decline of my lungs due to MJ smoke, albeit not near as bad as tobacco, but it was still there.
Skip ahead to 2 weeks ago and I am sick of the cumulative effect smoking MJ was causing on my breathing, especially when I run(Also noticed a shallowness in my breathing). I came to the conclusion that I was not going to smoke anymore, but I also did not want to lose MJ. Went to a local CK secrets and bought an el cheapo vape to give vaporisation a try(did not want to spend big, just test the water, then search for a quality product if I liked it).
The results to me were quite pleasing! While I still did not have my technique down completely and was not getting an optimal high, 2-3 days into vaping and I could feel my lungs opening up big time, in a great way. They opened at a rate faster than when I just quit smoking tobacco and had that T break a few years back(think the THC in pure form without all those nasty combustion byproducts actually helped open my lungs up to purify faster).
I am now 2 weeks 1 day into Vaping and have a DBV arriving in the mail tommorrow and am looking to buy a MFLB for a good portable. Now when I dump out my cashed bowls of ABV, I cannot believe I was cool with inhaling all of that stuff. If I knew what I know now, how many years I would not of spent smoking....
But everyone experiences things differently. For me vaping has salvaged the joy and pleasure I get from MJ while still not taking away from my health and allowing me to push myself even harder during my runs.
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luchiano
Well-Known Member
@Baker Reg
This is an easy problem to fix since it deals with dry air. You can do a few things:
1-Get some boveda packs to help add some moisture to your herb, and when you vape, it will help add moisture to your lungs to help keep things smooth since the dry air from vaping will dry it out. Just make sure you grind your herb before adding moisture to it because once moisture is in your bud, it will be hard to get a good, fine grind.
2-Do more cardio exercise like running or biking since it brings more blood to your lungs which means more moisture. Doing it daily will help keep your lungs from drying out, and getting weak.
3-Drink water before every puff. You want to swish the water around your mouth before swallowing so your mouth will be moist, and allow the vapor to pick some up as it travels along it. A slow inhale is best.
4-Just use a small water pipe. You want to inhale slow so vapor will have a lot of contact with the water and pick some up as it travels through it, therefore leaving your lungs less dry.
Doing all of these things will let vapor have no negative effects on your respiratory system. Don't think it's just the volcano, and buying a new vape will solve the problem because it won't in the long run. Eventually you will get some issues, and it's because vaporizing brings in more dry air then smoking since it's more pure, and less particulate matter, which means more is being absorbed by your lungs. The volcano gives less clouds then some other vaporizers, and that means more absorption, so you will feel it more. When you have big clouds, they can be irritating, but they will have more moisture in them then constantly reloading a bag will since the water boils off much quicker then the actives we are after, and the bag is large enough to hold a lot of vapor/air. If you use real dry herb, it will be even less moisture in your vapor mix.
I have seen people get new vaporizers, the issues is solved, then it comes back and they don't know what to do.
Anyway, Have fun.
This is an easy problem to fix since it deals with dry air. You can do a few things:
1-Get some boveda packs to help add some moisture to your herb, and when you vape, it will help add moisture to your lungs to help keep things smooth since the dry air from vaping will dry it out. Just make sure you grind your herb before adding moisture to it because once moisture is in your bud, it will be hard to get a good, fine grind.
2-Do more cardio exercise like running or biking since it brings more blood to your lungs which means more moisture. Doing it daily will help keep your lungs from drying out, and getting weak.
3-Drink water before every puff. You want to swish the water around your mouth before swallowing so your mouth will be moist, and allow the vapor to pick some up as it travels along it. A slow inhale is best.
4-Just use a small water pipe. You want to inhale slow so vapor will have a lot of contact with the water and pick some up as it travels through it, therefore leaving your lungs less dry.
Doing all of these things will let vapor have no negative effects on your respiratory system. Don't think it's just the volcano, and buying a new vape will solve the problem because it won't in the long run. Eventually you will get some issues, and it's because vaporizing brings in more dry air then smoking since it's more pure, and less particulate matter, which means more is being absorbed by your lungs. The volcano gives less clouds then some other vaporizers, and that means more absorption, so you will feel it more. When you have big clouds, they can be irritating, but they will have more moisture in them then constantly reloading a bag will since the water boils off much quicker then the actives we are after, and the bag is large enough to hold a lot of vapor/air. If you use real dry herb, it will be even less moisture in your vapor mix.
I have seen people get new vaporizers, the issues is solved, then it comes back and they don't know what to do.
Anyway, Have fun.
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VaporsVaporizer
On the Stoop
Hey luchiano, do you own a Volcano? Out of all my vapes, it gives off the biggest clouds of vapor and is without a doubt the harshest. I just don't understand how adding a pack of Boveda to the herb will really add enough moisture to the vapor from a Volcano. Hooking it up to a water pipe will, but IMHO Baker Reg sounds like he needs a different Vape.
luchiano
Well-Known Member
No, but used and learned the ins & outs of it as well as other vaporizers. The clouds come from two things, depending on how it's used:
1-Adding a lot to a bowl all at once so you get more condensation within the cloud.
2-More dry air since the bag can hold a lot
There are two kinds of clouds that people see when they vaporize. One that is cooled off, and has a lot of air, or one that is full of condensed vapor, along with a lot of air which may be real hot depending on temperature used. Depending on temperature and humidity, the cloud that is full of air, yet cooled off, will cause a big drying effect since the deep inhales you would do with a vaporizer causes more of the dry air to fill up, and dry out the lungs. Add to the fact that a lot of the substances in the herb are hygroscopic(absorb moisture from the air), your lungs will dry out even more. When you inhale a cloud that has a lot of actives in it, there will tend to be a little more moisture to it, and it won't get deep inside the lungs as effectively as a airy cloud will due to being too large in size for the aveoli to absorb. So even though it will irritate the lungs, it won't be as much as a dry, warm airy one will in the long run. This is why people feel less of these effects from smoking then they do vaping. With smoking less of the big cloud is effecting most of the lungs, while a thinner one will.
Boveada packs will allow the hygroscopic substances to have moisture to cling to instead of the lungs so this is why it will be better then just a water pipe. The water pipe is much better at cooling the vapor then hydrating it. Again this comes down to how you use it as well. Slower is better then a fast inhale. Boveda pack with a water pipe is the best solution then one or the other. With a bag, the boveda pack is even better because once the moisture boils off, and you go to higher temperatures, some of the moisture will condense onto the wall of the bag, and the higher you go in temperature, the more the condensed water will go back into the vapor allowing each hit to have moisture. The temperature inside a volcano bag will be 266f degrees when the temperature is set to the maximum of 446f. That temperature is more then enough to allow the condensed water to go back into the vapor phase and mix with the vapor from the herb, and moisten it.
1-Adding a lot to a bowl all at once so you get more condensation within the cloud.
2-More dry air since the bag can hold a lot
There are two kinds of clouds that people see when they vaporize. One that is cooled off, and has a lot of air, or one that is full of condensed vapor, along with a lot of air which may be real hot depending on temperature used. Depending on temperature and humidity, the cloud that is full of air, yet cooled off, will cause a big drying effect since the deep inhales you would do with a vaporizer causes more of the dry air to fill up, and dry out the lungs. Add to the fact that a lot of the substances in the herb are hygroscopic(absorb moisture from the air), your lungs will dry out even more. When you inhale a cloud that has a lot of actives in it, there will tend to be a little more moisture to it, and it won't get deep inside the lungs as effectively as a airy cloud will due to being too large in size for the aveoli to absorb. So even though it will irritate the lungs, it won't be as much as a dry, warm airy one will in the long run. This is why people feel less of these effects from smoking then they do vaping. With smoking less of the big cloud is effecting most of the lungs, while a thinner one will.
Boveada packs will allow the hygroscopic substances to have moisture to cling to instead of the lungs so this is why it will be better then just a water pipe. The water pipe is much better at cooling the vapor then hydrating it. Again this comes down to how you use it as well. Slower is better then a fast inhale. Boveda pack with a water pipe is the best solution then one or the other. With a bag, the boveda pack is even better because once the moisture boils off, and you go to higher temperatures, some of the moisture will condense onto the wall of the bag, and the higher you go in temperature, the more the condensed water will go back into the vapor allowing each hit to have moisture. The temperature inside a volcano bag will be 266f degrees when the temperature is set to the maximum of 446f. That temperature is more then enough to allow the condensed water to go back into the vapor phase and mix with the vapor from the herb, and moisten it.
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vorrange
Vapor.wise
I think the help given as sorted you out already but here is what i'd do.
1. Get a water bong. (It's a must have in a vaporist's arsenal and will help you a great deal in your problem.)
2. Search for a new vaporizer. I'm convinced that will help you save herb AND your throat in the process.
As lwien said, a log would be a good option for the small loads and concentrated flavorfull hits. A HI or a E-Nano would be my first choices for a log.
Or maybe a Lotus Kit, you get a pipe and an adapter to use with a bong, and it's an easy, fast and again tasty way to vaporize.
3. Enjoy your renewed pleasure in vaporizing.
1. Get a water bong. (It's a must have in a vaporist's arsenal and will help you a great deal in your problem.)
2. Search for a new vaporizer. I'm convinced that will help you save herb AND your throat in the process.
As lwien said, a log would be a good option for the small loads and concentrated flavorfull hits. A HI or a E-Nano would be my first choices for a log.
Or maybe a Lotus Kit, you get a pipe and an adapter to use with a bong, and it's an easy, fast and again tasty way to vaporize.
3. Enjoy your renewed pleasure in vaporizing.
Thank you for your detailed explanation, luchiano. I ask how do you apply a boveda bag to the herb in the bowl? Excuse my ignorance, but this is the first that I have heard of boveda, and I have little experience in the world of vape. Where does one purchase a boveda bag and is it non- toxic? Thanks!
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luchiano
Well-Known Member
Boveda packs are non-toxic since they use just salt, and water to make them. I learned about them from cigar users, and brought it over to the cannabis world. You can get boveda packs from them directly(http://www.bovedainc.com/store/) or you can purchase the cvault, which is a storage container that uses the boveda packs to keep your herb fresh(http://www.planetvape.ca/vaporizer-accessories/storage/cvault.html). There is a thread on this site on the cvault that you can read if you want to hear more about them from users. You just let the boveda packs sit in a closed space with your herb, and the herb will slowly absorb moisture that is released into the air. The boveda packs make sure that everything stays at a constant humidity so mold doesn't develop.
BTW, you know with the volcano you can use way less then .5 grams, and get a better effect when using a higher temperature, which will allow you to use very little in your consumption. With vaporizers, the more you use, the less effective they are unless you want a quick adrenaline rush type high which comes from the actives condensing onto each other, giving a thick cloud, which causes the lungs to be low in oxygen, which causes more adrenaline to be released then normal and gives the rush type high. All you need to do is grind up .10-.20 grams, start at a low temperature you feel is comfortable, then raise the temperature in 5-10 degree increments until you reach around 410f. Do a few bags at that temperature, and you feel WAY more then if you were to just use the whole .5 grams all at once, and staying at 365f. Going that high in temperature may be a problem for your lungs but investing in a cheap water pipe to cool down the air will prevent this problem. You don't need a fancy pipe that cost hundreds of dollars, if you inhale at a slow, smooth speed, since that will give the air time to cool off, and pick up some moisture from the water, much better then a fast inhale will.
Just use the bag as you normally would but, instead of pushing the valve to your mouth, just push it to the bowl, and inhale at a nice smooth speed. This video is what I'm trying to explain:
BTW, you know with the volcano you can use way less then .5 grams, and get a better effect when using a higher temperature, which will allow you to use very little in your consumption. With vaporizers, the more you use, the less effective they are unless you want a quick adrenaline rush type high which comes from the actives condensing onto each other, giving a thick cloud, which causes the lungs to be low in oxygen, which causes more adrenaline to be released then normal and gives the rush type high. All you need to do is grind up .10-.20 grams, start at a low temperature you feel is comfortable, then raise the temperature in 5-10 degree increments until you reach around 410f. Do a few bags at that temperature, and you feel WAY more then if you were to just use the whole .5 grams all at once, and staying at 365f. Going that high in temperature may be a problem for your lungs but investing in a cheap water pipe to cool down the air will prevent this problem. You don't need a fancy pipe that cost hundreds of dollars, if you inhale at a slow, smooth speed, since that will give the air time to cool off, and pick up some moisture from the water, much better then a fast inhale will.
Just use the bag as you normally would but, instead of pushing the valve to your mouth, just push it to the bowl, and inhale at a nice smooth speed. This video is what I'm trying to explain:
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luchiano
Well-Known Member
No problem. I realize when I described how to get a lot out of the vaporizer, I wasn't specific.
Each time you raise the temperature you want to fill the bag with vapor. An example would be to start your session at 365f, then after inhaling the first bag, raise the temperature to 370f-375f, fill the bag, then inhale. Keep doing this until 410f or if you want to go higher you can but, if you stay at 410f do at least 2-3 bags before either finishing your session or lowering the temperature back to 365f, loading fresh herb into the bowl, and starting a new session.
A good trick to do if it is night time and you want to relax, is to vape 3-4 bags at 375f, then raise the temperature to 446f. What this does is cause most of the thc in the cannabis to oxidize into cbn due to the excess hot air not cooling off from the cloud the lower boiling actives will give if you boil everythig together. Most of the oxidizing will happen in the bag so having room for the thc and oxygen to interact is important.
Again, do this with a water pipe so it won't irritate your respiratory system.
Each time you raise the temperature you want to fill the bag with vapor. An example would be to start your session at 365f, then after inhaling the first bag, raise the temperature to 370f-375f, fill the bag, then inhale. Keep doing this until 410f or if you want to go higher you can but, if you stay at 410f do at least 2-3 bags before either finishing your session or lowering the temperature back to 365f, loading fresh herb into the bowl, and starting a new session.
A good trick to do if it is night time and you want to relax, is to vape 3-4 bags at 375f, then raise the temperature to 446f. What this does is cause most of the thc in the cannabis to oxidize into cbn due to the excess hot air not cooling off from the cloud the lower boiling actives will give if you boil everythig together. Most of the oxidizing will happen in the bag so having room for the thc and oxygen to interact is important.
Again, do this with a water pipe so it won't irritate your respiratory system.
I need to advice against doing so many bags out of one load on a volcano.
I use the volcano as a daily driver for nearly 2 years now. I usually vape around 0.5g a day usually in two loads in the evening. (so around 0.25 per load but i dont really measure it precisely).
I use the solid-value set and my bags are a little larger than the standard easy-valve ones.
I usually create three bags, thats it, the fourth one will not give you any high. I tested this many many times believe me.
And i had the same problem you had in the beginning when using the volcano. It was mainly caused by overusing it. Doing too many bags of the same load. It makes no sense as you will not get any more high, but it will sure dry out your lungs.
I cannot tell you the perfect way to use it but i will describe my procedure that has been working for me:
I do all bowls at 185°(C) (that would be around 365F i guess).
I create three bags
- The first one will be very tasty
- The second one will have less tast but will hit hard
- The third one will give less vapor, less taste, less effect
Then i clear the bowl.
Things that are important too:
1) Always have something to drink next to you and take a sip often while vaping the volcano.
2) Do not inhale 100% of your lungs with vapor, instead do max 50% and fill the rest with air. Then exhale about 25% and inhale back. Repeat this a few times then exhale everything. Holding your breath does nothing, you need to move the air/vapor around for the body to absorb more.
3) Do not do to many bags. I did this in the beginning being afraid of wasting herb by not fully vaping it.
About the temp:
I vape at this lower temp for two main reasons.
1) If you start vaping at a high temp right away it will be very harsh, with the volcano always start low. If 185C/365F is too much for you try 170C/338F for the first bag and then go higher.
2) The effects are different. At this temp you will extract mainly the "high parts" and leave the "downers" in. This effect is very noticable, you can vape much at this temp setting and get really high without getting sleepy. The AVB that is created this way is like a sleeping pill. My brother-in-law smokes this usually before going to bed. So when you are planning to go to bed you can do the last bag at 200C/392F for the "sleeping pill" effect.
Using a small water pipe to moisture the vapor will also help but i found this not necessary for me.
The main factor is to inhale correctly, have a drink next to you and sip often and to not inhale many bags.
I created like 10 bags from each load in the beginning, but that proved worthless. As i said in my bag-setup using bags a little larger than the standard ones i create three bags only. In all my tests the fourth bag did not have any feel-able effect. And i tested this very often =). But whenever i use the bowl the next day to create another bag i felt nothing ...
just my 2 cents
happy vaping
sal
I use the volcano as a daily driver for nearly 2 years now. I usually vape around 0.5g a day usually in two loads in the evening. (so around 0.25 per load but i dont really measure it precisely).
I use the solid-value set and my bags are a little larger than the standard easy-valve ones.
I usually create three bags, thats it, the fourth one will not give you any high. I tested this many many times believe me.
And i had the same problem you had in the beginning when using the volcano. It was mainly caused by overusing it. Doing too many bags of the same load. It makes no sense as you will not get any more high, but it will sure dry out your lungs.
I cannot tell you the perfect way to use it but i will describe my procedure that has been working for me:
I do all bowls at 185°(C) (that would be around 365F i guess).
I create three bags
- The first one will be very tasty
- The second one will have less tast but will hit hard
- The third one will give less vapor, less taste, less effect
Then i clear the bowl.
Things that are important too:
1) Always have something to drink next to you and take a sip often while vaping the volcano.
2) Do not inhale 100% of your lungs with vapor, instead do max 50% and fill the rest with air. Then exhale about 25% and inhale back. Repeat this a few times then exhale everything. Holding your breath does nothing, you need to move the air/vapor around for the body to absorb more.
3) Do not do to many bags. I did this in the beginning being afraid of wasting herb by not fully vaping it.
About the temp:
I vape at this lower temp for two main reasons.
1) If you start vaping at a high temp right away it will be very harsh, with the volcano always start low. If 185C/365F is too much for you try 170C/338F for the first bag and then go higher.
2) The effects are different. At this temp you will extract mainly the "high parts" and leave the "downers" in. This effect is very noticable, you can vape much at this temp setting and get really high without getting sleepy. The AVB that is created this way is like a sleeping pill. My brother-in-law smokes this usually before going to bed. So when you are planning to go to bed you can do the last bag at 200C/392F for the "sleeping pill" effect.
Using a small water pipe to moisture the vapor will also help but i found this not necessary for me.
The main factor is to inhale correctly, have a drink next to you and sip often and to not inhale many bags.
I created like 10 bags from each load in the beginning, but that proved worthless. As i said in my bag-setup using bags a little larger than the standard ones i create three bags only. In all my tests the fourth bag did not have any feel-able effect. And i tested this very often =). But whenever i use the bowl the next day to create another bag i felt nothing ...
just my 2 cents
happy vaping
sal
Thank you sal69 for your advice. I have yet to vapourize since I had trouble with my lungs. However, I am at the point where I will try again. I believe that my inexperience with vapourizing led me to these symptoms. I also inhaled far too many bags and loaded up with too much herb, so it appears that I was doing what you initially did. I will buy a bong to buffer the vapour and inhale smoothly and slowly. I inhaled the bags as if it was a joint, so I am certain that this methodology was counter productive. Yourself and luchiano have given me a valuable tutorial!
vorrange
Vapor.wise
Bottom line: if you have lung problems stay away from the volcano... And get something else instead.
I already drink some water while vaporizing and inhale air after the hit to further assimilate the canabinoids and do a bit of rebreathing.
I dont have lung problems but i feel better if i do this, especially if i vape a lot like on weekends.
I'm curious about the THC oxidation into CBN, is there a temperature that minimizes oxidation? IIRC, THC volatizes at 160C. My guess is that you should start at this temp or slightly higher.
I already drink some water while vaporizing and inhale air after the hit to further assimilate the canabinoids and do a bit of rebreathing.
I dont have lung problems but i feel better if i do this, especially if i vape a lot like on weekends.
I'm curious about the THC oxidation into CBN, is there a temperature that minimizes oxidation? IIRC, THC volatizes at 160C. My guess is that you should start at this temp or slightly higher.
11eleven11
Well-Known Member
If you can afford it, get a piece that has really good diffusion, and possibly at least 2 chambers of percolation. That should filter out a lot of particulate matter that irritates the lungs.
Something like a fritted piece will give a very smooth hit of vapor because all the bubbles catch a lot of particulate.
luchiano
Well-Known Member
I don't think the volcano in bad when done like sal69 described, and not vaping many bags. If a water pipe is used, with boveda packs his issue should disappear.
On the boiling point of thc, it vapes much more efficiently when you get to 392f. Lower then that and it's mostly tasty oils and other not so psychoactive compounds. Dr. Hornby did a test proving this. The Merck index also claims this temperature is the boiling point. You can vape at a lower temperature but it will take a long time to extract most of the thc.
@sal69, even though you may not feel a stronger high from the extra bags, you are still getting benefits from them such as more thc going to the other organs besides the brain such as the skin which will help keep you healthy, allow for more touch sensitivity(amazing sex)as well as a longer high, which means less herb needing to be used throughout the day. Of course this comes down to if you ate. Or not because if you don't, your body won't have the substances needed to feel the effects from the herb.
Another thing that I think is important is to take into account why a lot of people feel sleepy when they go to the high temperature that thc is released. I think the reason why a lot of low temp users feel this effect is because they have low thc receptors due to not ingesting that much thc, so when they do take in a lot it overwhelms their system and causes them to become sleepy so the body can metabolize the thc. if you constantly take in a lot of thc, and other cannabinoids, daily you will raise your thc receptors which will allow you to not get Sleepy when taking in such a high concentration, and improve your health since you will have so much cannabinoids receptors in your system. This pertains to vapor that isn't thick as smoke. That is another subject.
People also get sleepy based on some of the thc turning into cbn due to the high heat, and oxygen degrading/oxidizing the thc. This happens with time. Btw, thc converts to cbn at around246f, and in the presence of oxygen once it's carboxylic acid is removed. The acid is removed at around 220f. Again this conversion take times because the oxygen will have to attach to the thc but, once in a gas state this will happen extremely fast since there will be so much more surface area then it will be when thc is in a liquid or solid form.
There is a lot to learn from this quick study so reading the whole page is recommended such as using more then one bag at a lower heat to extract most of the cannabinoids.
https://www.greenpassion.org/index....ents-on-with-the-volcano-temperature-setting/
The boiling points of the three cannabinoids measured are as follows:
THC 200 C
CBD 190 C
CBN 185 C
We can see from our before and after sample, that CBN is virtually all gone at setting 6, leaving
only residual amounts. The THC, however, all remains at this setting. As does the CBD.
At setting 7.5 the THC is fully de-carboxylated, but still present to roughly 95% of its original value.
Interestingly, at this setting the CBD is only half de-carboxylated.
At setting 9, all three are fully de-carboxylated and have moved to the vapor state.
A small amount of CBD remains as does some THC.
We can conclude from these very preliminary experiments that with the Volcano at setting
6 all the CBN is gone along with the more volatile terpenes and aromatics. Yet at this
setting, although the THC and CBD are being activated they have still not received enough heat
to enter the vapor state. In addition, at setting 7.5, similar conditions hold, with the THC still
We did another experiment to six bags and behold, all is gone.not evaporated. It's only at setting 9 that THC receives sufficient energy to become volatile.
We did another experiment to six bags and behold, all is gone.THC acid, converted THC, CBN and CBD, all gone skyward.
This is at Volcano setting 7 and six bags were taken.
So between 2 bags, where virtually all the THC is still present,
and bag six the THC is being boiled off. To 2 bags it's all
terpenes and aromatics.
Suppose, we will have to narrow it down, to see if there is
one bag where the THC, fly's, at setting 7. Bet it's bag 4.
We'll see...
We ran another experiment with the Volcano. This time we collected 6 bgas at setting 6.
This just doesn't move the THC into the bag, only decarboxylating about 20% but not boiling
any off. Its aroma therapy at setting 6, very little, if any, active THC is delivered.
Of course at this setting you will be blowing off the terepenes and other lower molecular weight
aromatics, that do, indeed, have psychoactive properties. Incidently, these compounds, termed
the essential oils, have been banned, as long as the plant. It's my notion that the euphoric part
of the cannabis experience is a result of the essential oils and not THC.
EDIT: I forgot to mention that if you have a digital vaporizer, the results may be that you need maybe one to two less bags then the study because the digital stays within +/-2f degrees of your chosen temperature, while the original is +/-9f degrees.
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That study is indeed very interesting to read, i first found it when i started using the volcano.
Based on this study i started with rather high temps to extract everything. Somehow i was mainly worried in the beginning of my vapor-life to leave too much of the goods behind. After the herb is burned via smoking its pretty obvious nothing is left behind. When you vape it things look different.
After experimenting a lot i found hat these high temps dont deliver what i am looking for. I do not really need it from a medical perspective i guess so i have to admit i am doing it for the fun and relaxing effects after a stressful workday after the kids are put into bed.
Its completely correct that you need higher temps to extract everything there is in the herb. But thats not what i am looking for, for me the main reason the volcano (i use the digital version) is so good because you can select the temp to use very precisely enabling you to extract what you are looking for.
We need to be careful when we speak of "one bag" in terms of measurements because this only applies for easy-valve usage. On the solid-valve i am using each balloon has a different size. I tend to crate balloons that are larger than the easy-value ones but its hard to exactly guess the difference.
But what i could do is, i could measure the time it takes the volcano to fill it completely and compare that against a easy-value timing. This will not be very exact but better than nothing.
I can only encourage you to experiment with it to find your personal sweet spot. I personally find that even on temp 170C/338F i get a lot out of the herb. Based on that study its not the THC, but the other goodies.
After testing every possible temp many times on my volcano my favorite one 185C/365F is optimal for my needs. Before going to bed i crank it up to 195C/383F. If you want a more "smoke-comparable" effect you need a higher temp to get there for sure.
Captain Comply
Wellness over intoxication
Greetings Vapers, so glad I found this thread. And while I'm on it this forum rocks! No one is interested as I am in all this. in my life I annoy just about everyone with this type of conversation. So it's great to be in like company. I myself have been kinda struggling the last 6 months or so with my Digi Volcano. My asthma kicks up hard by bag 3 and I have to stop. I haven't yet read theses studies and will ASAP today. I use way more than .5 a day more like .5 a session in 2 loads. Ran at least 3-4 times.
It's kind of strange because I am using certified organic vegan fully flushed medicine. For a while I was getting some medicine that would only say maximum of three runs. This new medicine I feel like I can they almost infinite number of runs and still get cloudy. I actually combusted last weekend and found it a little less harsh on my and lungs once I reached the tight throat threshold.
I am going to try the bag to water bong trick tonight and try way less in each run. And I woul like to try these moisture packs. Also I always thought the Volcano was a good vape but I am interested in advice for a next option. I have been saving for a Sub, but I can't afford to keep blowing 700$ every couple years. Going to look up the Solo Log that was posted above. Live the life you love
Peace&Wellness
It's kind of strange because I am using certified organic vegan fully flushed medicine. For a while I was getting some medicine that would only say maximum of three runs. This new medicine I feel like I can they almost infinite number of runs and still get cloudy. I actually combusted last weekend and found it a little less harsh on my and lungs once I reached the tight throat threshold.
I am going to try the bag to water bong trick tonight and try way less in each run. And I woul like to try these moisture packs. Also I always thought the Volcano was a good vape but I am interested in advice for a next option. I have been saving for a Sub, but I can't afford to keep blowing 700$ every couple years. Going to look up the Solo Log that was posted above. Live the life you love
Peace&Wellness
luchiano
Well-Known Member
One thing that needs to be mentioned as far as not wanting to do too many bags, is usimg the temperature to help you extract everything in a few bags. This is why vaporizers that are good at holding heat are so wonderful, you can control the temperature and get quick, pure hits. All you need to do is start out at 365f, extract into the bag, then go to 400f or 410f, extract into the bag, the go to 446f, extract, and finish the session. If you want more just refill the bowl, and start over.
This temperature adjustment will allow you to use a just three bags, even if they're not that big, and you get more from your herb even when using very little. You can even just use two bags by starting out at 375f, to get most of the flavor firts, then going to 410f/420f to get most of the thc and some beta-carophyllene to be released more.
Wanting less bags is another reason why less is best. You can extract damn near everything in 2-3 bags when you use less. I think .05- .10 grams are the best amount for this.
This temperature adjustment will allow you to use a just three bags, even if they're not that big, and you get more from your herb even when using very little. You can even just use two bags by starting out at 375f, to get most of the flavor firts, then going to 410f/420f to get most of the thc and some beta-carophyllene to be released more.
Wanting less bags is another reason why less is best. You can extract damn near everything in 2-3 bags when you use less. I think .05- .10 grams are the best amount for this.
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Captain Comply
Wellness over intoxication
Thank you Luchiano for your advice. I just had a chance to have a session with your exact temps 375 then 410 to 420 for the third and final run. First off I hope you enjoy being right because this worked out really well. I used half of what I would have usually used at break and felt very medicated. Also with out any tightness in my chest. I also broke out an old bong and did the bag trick. Haha that worked fucking great! Thanks for the video you posted. My old bong is a cheapy with out any diffusers but did the job. I will post after my nighttime session but so far I'm super impressed with this.
I have been in the vape lifestyle for over 7 years and I am excited to learn any new info. Always impressed with the FC community. Keepin it real Peace and cough free vape hits to you sir.
Thanks so much for posting this link ! Great info HPLC testing.I don't think the volcano in bad when done like sal69 described, and not vaping many bags. If a water pipe is used, with boveda packs his issue should disappear.
On the boiling point of thc, it vapes much more efficiently when you get to 392f. Lower then that and it's mostly tasty oils and other not so psychoactive compounds. Dr. Hornby did a test proving this. The Merck index also claims this temperature is the boiling point. You can vape at a lower temperature but it will take a long time to extract most of the thc.
@sal69, even though you may not feel a stronger high from the extra bags, you are still getting benefits from them such as more thc going to the other organs besides the brain such as the skin which will help keep you healthy, allow for more touch sensitivity(amazing sex)as well as a longer high, which means less herb needing to be used throughout the day. Of course this comes down to if you ate. Or not because if you don't, your body won't have the substances needed to feel the effects from the herb.
Another thing that I think is important is to take into account why a lot of people feel sleepy when they go to the high temperature that thc is released. I think the reason why a lot of low temp users feel this effect is because they have low thc receptors due to not ingesting that much thc, so when they do take in a lot it overwhelms their system and causes them to become sleepy so the body can metabolize the thc. if you constantly take in a lot of thc, and other cannabinoids, daily you will raise your thc receptors which will allow you to not get Sleepy when taking in such a high concentration, and improve your health since you will have so much cannabinoids receptors in your system. This pertains to vapor that isn't thick as smoke. That is another subject.
People also get sleepy based on some of the thc turning into cbn due to the high heat, and oxygen degrading/oxidizing the thc. This happens with time. Btw, thc converts to cbn at around246f, and in the presence of oxygen once it's carboxylic acid is removed. The acid is removed at around 220f. Again this conversion take times because the oxygen will have to attach to the thc but, once in a gas state this will happen extremely fast since there will be so much more surface area then it will be when thc is in a liquid or solid form.
There is a lot to learn from this quick study so reading the whole page is recommended such as using more then one bag at a lower heat to extract most of the cannabinoids.
https://www.greenpassion.org/index....ents-on-with-the-volcano-temperature-setting/
The boiling points of the three cannabinoids measured are as follows:
THC 200 C
CBD 190 C
CBN 185 C
We can see from our before and after sample, that CBN is virtually all gone at setting 6, leaving
only residual amounts. The THC, however, all remains at this setting. As does the CBD.
At setting 7.5 the THC is fully de-carboxylated, but still present to roughly 95% of its original value.
Interestingly, at this setting the CBD is only half de-carboxylated.
At setting 9, all three are fully de-carboxylated and have moved to the vapor state.
A small amount of CBD remains as does some THC.
We can conclude from these very preliminary experiments that with the Volcano at setting
6 all the CBN is gone along with the more volatile terpenes and aromatics. Yet at this
setting, although the THC and CBD are being activated they have still not received enough heat
to enter the vapor state. In addition, at setting 7.5, similar conditions hold, with the THC still
We did another experiment to six bags and behold, all is gone.not evaporated. It's only at setting 9 that THC receives sufficient energy to become volatile.
We did another experiment to six bags and behold, all is gone.THC acid, converted THC, CBN and CBD, all gone skyward.
This is at Volcano setting 7 and six bags were taken.
So between 2 bags, where virtually all the THC is still present,
and bag six the THC is being boiled off. To 2 bags it's all
terpenes and aromatics.
Suppose, we will have to narrow it down, to see if there is
one bag where the THC, fly's, at setting 7. Bet it's bag 4.
We'll see...
We ran another experiment with the Volcano. This time we collected 6 bgas at setting 6.
This just doesn't move the THC into the bag, only decarboxylating about 20% but not boiling
any off. Its aroma therapy at setting 6, very little, if any, active THC is delivered.
Of course at this setting you will be blowing off the terepenes and other lower molecular weight
aromatics, that do, indeed, have psychoactive properties. Incidently, these compounds, termed
the essential oils, have been banned, as long as the plant. It's my notion that the euphoric part
of the cannabis experience is a result of the essential oils and not THC.
EDIT: I forgot to mention that if you have a digital vaporizer, the results may be that you need maybe one to two less bags then the study because the digital stays within +/-2f degrees of your chosen temperature, while the original is +/-9f degrees.
mod note: Please avoid back-to-back posts, use Edit instead. Two posts merged.
Last edited by a moderator:
luchiano
Well-Known Member
Glad you liked it. I like helping people see the wonders of quality built vaporizers, and what they can achieve with a small amount of herb. Vaporizers are like a magic trick when you think it's equal to smoking when thinking about how much herb you need to achieve strong effects. Once you learn what temperatures to use and you have a vaporizer that can give those exact temparutures or be very close to it, and it stays that way when the air is going through the herb, you are now on another leve that smokers can't get to if they tried because it's ultra clean and pure. The hard part is figuring out the information needed to get the best effects out of vaporizers and putting it together to meet your personal needs but with forums like this one that issue is becoming less of a problem.