Vapor quality

[Jens]

So, i know some strains don't vape as well as other strains. But does that mean there are different vapor qualites?

I ask because i have two nice strains here. One of them (strain A) seems to be delivering hits forever. Starting at 11'o clock and ending up at 2-3 i get about 25 nice rich hits and i'm blazed after 2 bowls.

The other strain (B) only starts emiting vapor decently at 12oclock and doesnt seem to give more then 12-15 hits. But it also gets me blazed after 2bowls, but here i have about 10-20 hits less.

Does this mean some strains will give you a higher quality of vapor, or is the quality of the bud measured in the amount of vapor it produces? Would shwagg also be able to produce lots of hits, or would it just not contain enough thc to do that?

so basicly: can strain B pack the same punch as strain A but deliver this in less vapor and less thick hits?

 

[nickzzzx]

From my experience, the amount of vapor produced depends on a few different factors: resin content(oil in the bud), trichome content, hit size, dryness of the bud, and consistency/fineness of the bud after being ground.
So like you said, I would definitely have to say that different strains will produce different qualities of vapor. I've noticed that some buds that are too dry and don't contain many trichomes (due to over-handling or lack of attention during growing) don't really produce much vapor, I find myself loading another bowl much quicker than I would with higher quality buds. This is why I stopped getting mids, although the price is less, its not worth it in the end.

 

[Beezleb]

It varies on the herb in my experience. I have had very strong herb not vape well at all and mids vape very well. Doesnt always seem to make sense. Perhaps someone else can shed another view point.

Strength does not correlate to volume of vapor necessarily. I would rather have 1 bag of high quality vapor than 2 or 3 bags of mids vapor.

So in that case if I got better effects with herb that produced the least vapor I personally would like that better than mids with more vapor but less effect. Not cut and dry in though in my experience as I said I have had great herb that vaped no where to the effect it was when combusted. It is kinda rare I see this but it does happen from time to time.

It could also just be my perception due to other unrelated aspects such as tolerances and whatnot. Also of note, all materials I use are always similar in consistency and dryness.

 

[Lo]

I have found the amount of vapor varies between strains. I've had some that go on & on while have tried others that produce much less. The vaporizer can only deliver what is available in the plant matter. Of course the grind and how dry it is can also cause a variation.

 

[Jens]

so does this mean it is possible to be blazed by a few hits of vapor produced by high quality bud (and the budd being finished)
Its only natural that better bud should deliver better effects, but the two strains i have cost exactly the same, while one produces loads of vapor and the other one produces less. I am wondering if those thinner hits might contain the same amount of THC

Compare it to drinking a beer and drinking whisky: when i drink a beer i need to take a lot of sips to get where i want, while i only need to drink a few sips of whisky to get to the same spot. Both glasses will be empty, it just takes less long with the whiskey. Does this apply to vapor too?

Another thing i've been wondering about that you guys might be able to help me out with: Is the quality of weed messured by the THC percentage, or are there also differences in THC quality.
For example: you smoke 2 kinds of pure sativa with 20% THC in them. Should both strains hit equaly hard or does the thc have other characteristics (if that makes any sense) wich makes it 'better' (i know how subjective that is, since we all like different effects)

Is the density of the vapor any kind of clue to know if its good?

On average, how many hits will a bowl produce for you? I ask because i mostly seem to get anywhere between 12 and even 30 hits when my DBV wand is filled 1/4 and that seems like more then what i usualy read on here

 

[DevoTheStrange]

I would say a good majority of it comes down to how much THC is contained within the herb itself, and whether or not it is indica or sativa.
The higher the THC content the more vapor to air you can potentially get. The vapor to air ratio is what really causes the effects what you feel and how fast it hits you. The lower the ratio the less punch that vape session will have.
There are other factors that play into vaping as well... such as how find of a grind you have. And how dry your herb is. Also how you hit your vape effects how each hit is.... your technique might not produce hits the same size as someone elses technique.
I know for a fact I can take similar size bowls of the same type of herb and my boss can get much more hits out of it compared to me, because I take in much larger hits... how many hits per bowl depends on how big of hits you can take and comfortably hold.

 

[Jens]

one of my friend claims he always feels the effects best when he takes large hits.

But all the vapor you blow out again, isn't that kind of a waste? Would it be better (more efficient) to take 1 large hit and rebreath (so you exhale alot of vapor), compared to two smaller hits + rebreathing.

I tought i read on here somewhere that taking big hits is kind of wastefull. Thats why i always took 'smaller' hits so my lungs can process the thc better.

Could the vapor/air ratio be improved by using a shorter whip?

 

[DevoTheStrange]

Yes big hits are very wasteful..... I would not argue on that point. However, there is just something about how quickly the effects hit you when compared to smaller hits that makes up for that waste. If you going for efficiency and the likes you will probably want to avoid the big ass hits.

There has been some success in people blowing into a bag and then re-inhaling the contents. Just make sure that you introduce some O2 into the system if your going to do this, don't wanna get light headed from oxygen deprivation.

There will be some improvement if you shorten the whip, but don't shorten it too much or you will be dealing with a higher heat exposure to your throat.
I know making a whip longer can def lower the quality of the vape hits, so it would make sense that a shorter one will be a bit better.

 

[lwien]

The vapor to air ratio is what really causes the effects what you feel and how fast it hits you. The lower the ratio the less punch that vape session will have.

Man, ain't that the truth. I was just making a mental note of this a few days ago.

I loaded up my Ion yesterday, filled a bag (about 6 hits worth) and got pretty buzzed with a temp setting of 380 degrees Fahrenheit. The following day, I loaded up a PD stem with the ABV from the basket of the Ion and got totally wasted on 3 hits by hitting the PD thru a mini-beaker. More buzzed with 3 hits from the PD than 6 hits from the Ion and I would assume the same would hold true for the Volcano. Not only that, but I had 3 PD stems worth in the Ion basket. Higher using half the amount of bud.

So, yeah, we've always talked about the high air to vapor ratio in bag vapes versus vapes with other delivery systems, but I just wanted to drive home what Devo said above. The vapor to air ratio makes a huge difference.

btw, I LOVE my Ion. Makes a great party vape when I have company over but for personal use, when it comes to efficiency and getting higher more and faster using less bud, it makes very good sense to get that vapor to air ratio higher.

 

[Neverender]

I loaded up my Ion yesterday, filled a bag (about 6 hits worth) and got pretty buzzed with a temp setting of 380 degrees Fahrenheit. The following day, I loaded up a PD stem with the ABV from the basket of the Ion and got totally wasted on 3 hits by hitting the PD thru a mini-beaker.

I just can't believe it....

I can't believe it so much that I actually placed an order the other day for an MZ.

I'm tired of reading all these posts from people with log-style vapes claiming to get wrecked off of .000000000024, or whatever, and not being able to at least TRY one.

I may be the most skeptical future pd/mz/wdz owner yet... If its similar to my MFLB, I think I'm going to be disappointed. I load my MFLB with my normal .1 - .15 that I'd put in my SSV and while it gets me a good buzz going (which is perfect for on the go), I just seem to feel more medicated with my SSV and the big rips it supplies. I feel like I'm "lightly sucking" on my MFLB for 20 minutes to get a nice high going, when I can just take some rips out of the SSV and be goooooooooone.

 

[max]

I just seem to feel more medicated with my SSV and the big rips it supplies.

You'll certainly get more vapor quicker with the SSV than with a log vape. I use both and I'm usually quite happy with the smaller hits from the tiny bowl. But to get "more medicated", as you put it, in a shorter period of time, I think you'll find the SSV is the way to go. What the log vapes do very well is provide good hits, considering the bowl and tube size, without worrying about using your supply too fast due to higher temps. And most people find that they're satisfied (especially with good quality herb) with using a smaller amount than you'd use in the SSV or other full size models. The log vapes 'encourage' you to conserve. And if you do want big hits from one, check out this video of a PD, used with a 100ml EHLE.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-CyUO5o4HIw

 

[lwien]

And if you do want big hits from one, check out this video of a PD, used with a 100ml EHLE.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-CyUO5o4HIw

Yup. I use the HVY Mini-Beaker, and I can get as big of a hit as my lungs can take, but again, that's with the best bud that I can get my hands on. With that said, I don't think the PD would be the way to go with mids. With mids, I'd want to load up a larger bowl, but with really, really good bud, for me, the PD will remain my go-to vape.

 

[lwien]

I loaded up my Ion yesterday, filled a bag (about 6 hits worth) and got pretty buzzed with a temp setting of 380 degrees Fahrenheit. The following day, I loaded up a PD stem with the ABV from the basket of the Ion and got totally wasted on 3 hits by hitting the PD thru a mini-beaker.

I just can't believe it....

I know. Even after having my PD for over a year, I still can't believe how little it takes to get me to where I want to be. The Buddha and the Ion, both great examples of bag and whip vapes, just don't provide the same level of highness for a given amount of bud. Don't get me wrong. I can get blasted with the Ion and the Buddha. It's just that it takes more bud to get me there, and not just a little more bud. Like about twice as much bud, if not more.

 

[Jens]

So in order to get a higher vapor/air ratio i am currently using tubing that is only half as long, and i like it.
I have hit my DBV with only the wand on, and it seems to be producing vapor forever. Does this mean it drains the herb more or do i just get a better vapor/air ratio? Would this mean i can kind of use my DBV like a logstyle vaporizer, since the wand probably isn't that much bigger than most stems, but it does contain a lot more herb? The increased heath exposure doesn't seem to bother my throat that much.

Also, anyone know if there is any kind of log style vape that ships to europe? I'm interested since they seem so efficient. I even was going to buy one instead of my DBV, but they didn't ship to europe 4 months ago, and they still don't.

 

[DevoTheStrange]

the bowls and vapor to air ratio on the DBV whip and the log style vapes are drastically different. Much higher vapor to air ratio in the log style vapes due to the constricted size of the bowl and vapor path.
The log style vapes work because their bowls are pretty much full or almost full and the entire bowl is inside the air path. With the DBV not all of the herb is in the airpath so it need more stirring to get the most out of your herb.

and as far as obtaining a log style vape overseas... contact the manufacturers and see what their policy is on that... might get lucky and get one. However I do believe you will have to provide your own 12v power supply

 

[Beezleb]

Just because two herbs cost the same, that does not equate to them being equal. Unless you made the hose for the DBV longer that how it came than that is not really a factor. Their is more to herb than price, appearance, chemicals and whatnot and when you add in marketing the "price" of things can get rather flexible.

Also, I disagree with the vapor to air ratio. While I do agree vapor to air ratio are important when looking for an impact hit but that is not the whole story.
For example: I have taken a small bag with same amount of herb and felt the same off a larger bag with the same amount of herb. The larger bag is simply diluted vapor but the entire product gets into you.

In my opinion they both lead to the same place but different ways to get their. This is typically what I suggest to people who want to use a vape but have overly sensitive lungs where cooling the draws do not help much, (fellow ill people, though I generally recommend eating it for those types of issues). With that said, for my money, its all about power hits. I love using my DBV or Zephyr with a bong. Though Its not uncommon for me to put my DBV wand on the Zephyr and and let her rip straight from the wand and tube. Though you have to hold the wand to keep it tight or it will leak a bit.

Their has been much debate on the issue on vapor hits. Some are pro power hits some are more wanting the slower ease into the high kind of draws. Their is not a wholly correct answer but one that fits "your" style and needs will be the best for you I think. My idea of ideal vaping may not that of another persons so no matter how much success I have with my style. I do not extort it as the best way as it is only for now, the best way for me and what I am doing, how others interpret that up to them.

Also, this makes me wonder about the quality of the herb. You stated it cost the same. So am I correct in my understanding that you are not well versed in the qualities and whatnot of the herb? If so, see if you have a jewelers lens or a pocket scope that can see 30x and to 100x is even better. You want to look at the individual heads of the trichromes. You are looking specifically to see if they look "clear" "Cloudy" and "Amber." If you have properly dried and cured herb, most likely more dried than cured, than you want to see about a generic average of 10-20 percent amber trichromes with the rest cloudy and may be a few clear. If you see more clear than anything else it was harvest too soon. If you see more amber or stalks that look bent over with a heads on than its degraded and will be more couch like but still strong.

Think of herb as a fruit. It has to be harvested at specific points of ripeness to better manage certain affects from the herb. It is not common for dispensaries to buy respected names of herb that look beautiful but are not yet prime for harvest. In California, appearance is a higher degree of selling power than in many other places. I recommend before purchasing you actually evaluate it rather than take the bud tenders opinion of it.

If you do not see many trichromes than they may have broken off due to handling, unscrupulous collecting of kief by others before you.

Repeat and stir as applicable. I can get on average depending on size of bowl 10-20 large draws being conservative. For you only to be getting two draws is not anywhere close to normal in my view. Something is not right.


Just gonna go over a simple DBV session to make sure all bases are covered.
Turn on to normal vape range. (once heated, a few minutes)
Fill wand as per regular use, not how you normally do it but fill it as per recommended if needed.
Place wand and draw slow.
remove wand and exhale.
Repeat
Repeat
Stir
Repeat
Repeat
Stir

If you do not make it this far my first place to look is your temp setting. Try turning the temp down a notch when you do another wand and see if that helps. You should far more draw/stir sessions than what I have shown.

Its either the herb, vape or you. I suspect its the herb.

Might also want to look at these vids.
General Vaporizer Information: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Dtvs8fMxLE
Vaporizers 101: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9luNVYlT_E

 

[RGNSUP]

Yes big hits are very wasteful..... I would not argue on that point. However, there is just something about how quickly the effects hit you when compared to smaller hits that makes up for that waste. If you going for efficiency and the likes you will probably want to avoid the big ass hits.

Why are big hits wasteful? What about going through a bong?

 

[Jens]

Thx for all the info beezleb, but i'm not as inexperienced as you might think.

I used the price comparison because i always get weed for the same price and it has nearly the same strenght every time (i get high mids, sometimes dank)
I asked the question about vapor quality just because there was such a difference in the amount of vapor produced, altho both strains seem about equaly covered in trichromes. And because the effects where almost equal, but i just got where i wanted in much less hits (and the bowl was finished), wich i found strange.

And i'm not sure if you're adressing me with the 2 hits/bowl, cause i never said that (i tink ), i get anywhere near 12-30 hits. I've got my buddha for about 4 months now, i know how to handle my baby

And i tought big hits are a waste because half of the vapor you exhale is thc your lungs couldn't proces all at once

 

[Raf007]

Lwien do you mean your PD gets hotter than the Ion is capable of at full temp ?

I am asking coz I have made myslef to believe that a Ion or a Cano could run hotter than a PD, therefore exctracting more goods,

 

[Beezleb]

Thx for all the info beezleb, but i'm not as inexperienced as you might think.

I used the price comparison because i always get weed for the same price and it has nearly the same strenght every time (i get high mids, sometimes dank)
I asked the question about vapor quality just because there was such a difference in the amount of vapor produced, altho both strains seem about equaly covered in trichromes. And because the effects where almost equal, but i just got where i wanted in much less hits (and the bowl was finished), wich i found strange.

And i'm not sure if you're adressing me with the 2 hits/bowl, cause i never said that (i tink ), i get anywhere near 12-30 hits. I've got my buddha for about 4 months now, i know how to handle my baby

And i tought big hits are a waste because half of the vapor you exhale is thc your lungs couldn't proces all at once

Hehe, my bad, I blame Zephyr.

For some reason I was under the impression you was getting 2 hits. I think its just normal with that strain then. I tend to get most mids myself and I run into that time to time. Happy Vaping.

 

[DevoTheStrange]

Yes big hits are very wasteful..... I would not argue on that point. However, there is just something about how quickly the effects hit you when compared to smaller hits that makes up for that waste. If you going for efficiency and the likes you will probably want to avoid the big ass hits.

Why are big hits wasteful? What about going through a bong?

Everything you exhale on a big hit is vapor that was not absorbed by your body. With smaller hits you can hold them in and absorb most of the THC, exhaling little vapor. Any vapor that you see coming out of your exhales is something that is lost to the ambient environment.

 

[Jens]

Just to make sure: i won't get a higher level of efficiency by hitting it directly on the wand or a 30cm hose? Is there any reason i was getting endless hits then when i hit it directly from the wand? Was i just draining my herb more than usual, or is there some other factor here.

thx to everyone that bothered to help me ^-^

 

[Beezleb]

Yes big hits are very wasteful..... I would not argue on that point. However, there is just something about how quickly the effects hit you when compared to smaller hits that makes up for that waste. If you going for efficiency and the likes you will probably want to avoid the big ass hits.

Why are big hits wasteful? What about going through a bong?

Everything you exhale on a big hit is vapor that was not absorbed by your body. With smaller hits you can hold them in and absorb most of the THC, exhaling little vapor. Any vapor that you see coming out of your exhales is something that is lost to the ambient environment.

Its debatable. I call it subjective preference.

I like the power draws and you feel it when you do. I also understand and have done at length many sessions of using lower amounts over time.

I am all about the power but that works for me. Some may look at me say I waste, I could look at them say they take puny amounts. None of is right or wrong. Its just a preference. With that said. In my opinion the best compromise for efficiency and performance is the log style vapes but for me they do not hold enough and when I have used them I find I need more tubes and just one thus losing any "savings" as similar amounts are the obtained. Add in the pain the butt factor of changing tubes than its clear to see why for my style that log vapes are not ideal for my style of use.

Ask yourself, what is your style of use and go from their.

I am not sure why you had a difference with shorter length but it should not have mattered much outside being uncomfortable heat wise and maybe harder to control the draw speed so probably getting initial burst of high vapor followed by light vapor if you could keep it going depending on how fast it cooled the heating element I would think.

 

[lwien]

Lwien do you mean your PD gets hotter than the Ion is capable of at full temp ?

Nope. My Cherry PD is operating, and this is an assumption going by the color of the ABV and taste, at around 380. My Ash runs cooler, I'd say closer to 365.

The Ion is capable of MUCH higher temps, but for me, anything above 385 and it starts tasting kinda funky and taste is really important to me so I stay between 370 to 382 with the Ion.

 

[Beezleb]

Yea the temp range on the zephyr goes much higher but the log vape temps are typically within the ideal range.


Hey Iwien,

Check out the following temps
328
356
386 or 382

Its my new session ranges and I love it. Never would have tried 328 but I read a strain review where the guy vaped at 328. If your not familiar with that low check it out.