Vapor Path Purity Test

[RastaBuddhaTao]

One of the critical attributes to a quality vaporizer is a pure vapor path. In order to not contaminate the flow materials must be chosen carefully depending on the environment that they are in. For instance, plastic A might be acceptable for a mouthpiece as compared to plastic B or a certain type of ceramic might be acceptable for a heater component where aluminum might not be.

In general it seems boro glass, ceramic, titanium and medical grade stainless seem to be "approved" in high heat areas. Brass, nickel, aluminum, and mica seem to be generally accepted as heater materials. Some high temp plastics, rubbers and adhesives are begrudgingly used in low heat areas. But these are just general rules.

The worst case scenario is a release of harmful gases but this is usually not a big issue as reputable manufactures use sound engineering when picking out materials that won't harm the user. Any release that would be harmful is generally caught in over temperature or endurance testing.

But also a big concern is odor and taste which can interfere with the natural flavors and aroma of the herb. Your olfactory senses can be triggered by a fraction of a ppm which makes it nearly impossible to test for.

I have worked in the fuel cell, battery and bio-pharm industries where purity and cleanliness are imperative and still have access to some of the best minds and facilities the business and want to use this thread to build a list of acceptable materials at specified temperatures as well as the tests that Can be used to determine their suitability.

NASA has a public listing of "low out gassing" materials which is a good place to start.

So, can we start with the assumption that boro, ceramic, titanium and stainless are acceptable in heater applications to 1000 degrees F assuming high quality materials? Seems like a discussion of what is currently accepted is a good place to start.

 

[poonman]

But also a big concern is odor and taste which can interfere with the natural flavors and aroma of the herb. Your olfactory senses can be triggered by a fraction of a ppm which makes it nearly impossible to test for.

For me , No Coughing is preferred .
By that , I don't mean taking too big of a hit
for your lung capacity or Higher temps which can be
alleviated with water filtration .

I'm always suspect of vaporisers that induce cough
when Dry vaping at a reasonable temp . ( 360 - 390 )
Pure THC vapors do not make me cough .

After 25 years of combusting weed ,
My Loud Booming cough was a signature to my
neighbors , that I was awake . Plus at the request
from my Testicles , Please do more testing and make
a purer tasting vape .

I really like your Open Transparency with the development
of the Zion . Along with the beta/members , it feels like a
Team effort .

 

[RastaBuddhaTao]

Yeh it's crazy that people can detect less than 1 on 1,000,000 ppm... The best analyzers in the world only test down to 1 ppm. Some odors can be detected down to .002 ppm! This is what is used on natural gas. Funny thing is you have to learn sent therefore children under 5 will tell you putrid things will not smell bad. As we age we loose our sensitivity to smell. There is also smell blindness where 1/1000 people can't smell a particular fragrance. Threshold of Odor detection is when 50% of a test group can accurately detect a sent.

With that said I am starting to believe a human taking a dry hit may be the only test that will pick up on odor from out gassing. No one engineers like Jah

 

[DieHard]

Yeh it's crazy that people can detect less than 1 on 1,000,000 ppm... The best analyzers in the world only test down to 1 ppm. Some odors can be detected down to .002 ppm! This is what is used on natural gas. Funny thing is you have to learn sent therefore children under 5 will tell you putrid things will not smell bad. As we age we loose our sensitivity to smell. There is also smell blindness where 1/1000 people can't smell a particular fragrance. Threshold of Odor detection is when 50% of a test group can accurately detect a sent.

With that said I am starting to believe a human taking a dry hit may be the only test that will pick up on odor from out gassing. No one engineers like Jah

It truly is crazy the variation in what we can detect from person to person. I think sometimes that I may be "scent blind" to some smells and hypersensitive to others. @Mrs. Diehard gets migraines frequently from the smell of combusting cannabis (thus my journey to vaping). NOW she loves vaping with the UD and Enano. Her Fave is my Errlectric Herb Nail. She even dabs occasionally as well.
I have noticed just this week that I am sensitive to the TASTE of some stainless steel. The flatware that I use to eat usually doesn't have a taste. But the Stainless mouthpiece on my KISS AC from W9 definately has a taste to me. It's almost like a very weak battery current. (I still taste it when it is removed from the vape, so, no it's not a short). It is not foul, but I find myself thinking about it every time I use it. (I broke the glass MP)

 

[lwien]

Brass, nickel, aluminum, and mica seem to be generally accepted as heater materials.

Considering that most brass has lead content, I would not accept brass in the vapor path let alone having a heater made of it.

 

[DieHard]

Brass can contain lead, but it does not all contain lead. There is increasing demand for Lead-free Brass and other alloys as well. Just like everything else, the reputable manufacturers will use quality materials (ie, lead free brass), and charge a higher price. More unscrupulous manufacturers will use cheaper materials to undercut costs. Caveat emtor.

 

[lwien]

Brass can contain lead, but it does not all contain lead. There is increasing demand for Lead-free Brass and other alloys as well. Just like everything else, the reputable manufacturers will use quality materials (ie, lead free brass), and charge a higher price. More unscrupulous manufacturers will use cheaper materials to undercut costs. Caveat emtor.

Yup. That's why I said, "most".

Lead content allows brass to be more pliable, hence the use of it.

Do we know of any legit manufactures who use brass in their heater construction?

 

[Joel W.]

Is 304L stainless considered "safe" or medical grade as vapes are concerned?

My findings

 

[Hippie Dickie]

i only allow borosilicate glass in my vapor path. i don't consider any other material suitable for what i consider to be the "high" heat of vaporization ... well, i consider any temp higher than what is required to cook a turkey to be "high" heat ... particularly with the repetitive cycling from room temperature to vaporization temperature and back to room temperature, over the relatively short time period of a session - say, 5 to 10 minutes.

definitely not plastic or aluminum or brass (and i'm not a fan of metal or ceramic) - again, due to the high heat and constant cycling of the material. i like polyimide as a high temperature insulator, but never in the vapor path.

the last thing i want to do is harsh my buzz with wondering about material safety. which, being ocd and excessively anal retentive, i would do. i have 100 things to worry about, but borosilicate glass is not one of them.

 

[pakalolo]

Do we know of any legit manufactures who use brass in their heater construction?

The flip side of our rule against discussing materials safety in model threads is that we don't allow discussion about specific models or manufacturers in the General Discussion threads.

 

[lwien]

The flip side of our rule against discussing materials safety in model threads is that we don't allow discussion about specific models or manufacturers in the General Discussion threads.

Then I have a question. Is there a place where we can discuss the safety of materials used in specific vaporizers?

 

[pakalolo]

Then I have a question. Is there a place where we can discuss the safety of materials used in specific vaporizers?

No.

 

[Kief]

Then I have a question. Is there a place where we can discuss the safety of materials used in specific vaporizers?

No.

 

[flashpants]

Why not?

 

[stickstones]

Because in the past it ended up derailing the threads away from the units and more toward a general discussion about the material in question. It was decided to keep specific materials discussions in separate threads so readers could easily find it. For instance, there is a thread here called 'Is brass safe?' that was created after a discussion started in the Zap thread. It didn't make sense to bury all the good discussion on brass in a model thread where people wouldn't find it. So it's two-fold...it keeps the model specific threads uncluttered and the materials discussions accessible. It's probably fine to start a thread about a material and then link to it from a model specific thread that has the material in question.

 

[lwien]

Thank you sticks. While the reasons have been pointed out here before, there's a lot of new people here who have benefited from your explanation.

Good idea in regards to the linking. I didn't think about that option. Guess an old-timer has benefited from it as well.

 

[herbivore21]

We should explicitly mention silicone carbide here, a type of ceramic but with far more durability and resistance to thermal shock and extremely high temps than other ceramics.

I think this is a material which could revolutionize the performance, longevity and taste of vaporizers

 

[canj00digit?]

I have a couple spare ceramic nails from Domeless.com that I really love.
But when those eventually all crack I will definitely be going straight for SIC and not looking back.

 

[RastaBuddhaTao]

So can we say boro glass is the gold standard for vapor path? Brass is questionable do to the potential lead content. Stainless steelyard impart a flavor so not favorable for mouthpieces and that SIC is the preferred ceramic?

 

[DieHard]

So can we say boro glass is the gold standard for vapor path? Brass is questionable do to the potential lead content. Stainless steelyard impart a flavor so not favorable for mouthpieces and that SIC is the preferred ceramic?

Yes.
Plus let's not forget Ti.

 

[HillaryClinton]

We should explicitly mention silicone carbide here, a type of ceramic but with far more durability and resistance to thermal shock and extremely high temps than other ceramics.

I think this is a material which could revolutionize the performance, longevity and taste of vaporizers

Interesting....

Wonder if its safe, gonna look it up a bit...

 

[herbivore21]

Interesting....

Wonder if its safe, gonna look it up a bit...

I have it on good info that it is more inert of a substrate to dab off than quartz

BTW aside from D-nail obviously having an SiC dish, w9tech use SiC for their 'black ceramic' coils in the more recent KISS carts.

@RastaBuddhaTao I actually don't think boro is the gold standard anymore, I have dabbed off pure silica quartz (the gold standard of glass, beats Boro out for sure!) and SiC. SiC is hands down tastier by miles and will resist extreme heat and quite some impact too! Makes quartz seem flimsy, and leaves boro in the dust!

 

[herbivore21]

Sorry for the double post all, so at the kinds of barometric pressure that we would be finding ourselves in on earth, Silicone carbide's oxidation process forms a pure silica oxide layer over the surface, which just happens to be inert. Quartz is high purity silica formed by different processes.

This layer can be universally formed on a given piece of SiC through cheap and easy oxidation methods, outlined in various scientific journal articles.

This oxide layer then provides greater thermal shock resistance than SiC would hold without this layer.

Next time I speak to Brian, I'll find out if this is what is applied on D-nail's SiC dish, but I daresay that this is what they are doing to all of their dishes during manufacturing and is why they boast such serious thermal properties.