Vaping and depression

[ltv]

I take meds (snri) for depression.
Over the years I have noticed if I vape daily for several months, the depression comes back and I become very quiet.
Has anyone experienced the same effects?

 

[23jim]

Absolutely. I am a several year medical user for TBI post concussion symptoms and during a period of huge stress last year and found I was using more for anxiety near daily. I found depression came with it. I resolved to use less or I would need to quit forever and go back to prescription meds. Tolerance break of a month was brutal but necessary. Then minimum does with minimum frequency became my goal. I don't know how anyone can use daily and stay themselves.

 

[florduh]

I don't know how anyone can use daily and stay themselves.

I agree that the minimum effective dose with the minimum effective frequency is important. It's probably easy for me to say because I'm blessed with lowish tolerance despite being a daily user. But that might be do to my temperance in the first place.

When I've taken a few weeks off just to see if I could, I didn't really notice benefits over daily vaping. The best I could say is I didn't have that slight "weed hangover" headache in the morning if I vaped late. But since I start the day with a hemp/CBD hit anyway that clears up any lingering THC effects, it wasn't a big advantage.

I feel that I'm a nicer, happier person if I have at least one THC hit at the end of the day. My body feels better too. I'm sure overdoing it can have the opposite effect, but that's the same with almost anything.

As far as feeling depression creeping up with daily use, it may be the cannabis. But it might not be. Even people who never use go through cycles like that. We've created a deranging, alienating, lonely society. Your brain may be able to deal with that fact for months on end, only to backslide into a depressive state.

For me, and I'm sure others, cannabis is an antidepressant. It helps me deal with the bizarre and unnatural way we all live in a healthier way.

 

[howie105]

We all live our different lives in various environments and bodies, so it's no surprise there is a wide variety of opinions on effects. In am on day eleven of a tolerance break, and I have been feeling down a bit longer than usual on these twice yearly events. Chucking it up to aging for the most part.

 

[Miasma]

I take meds (snri) for depression.
Over the years I have noticed if I vape daily for several months, the depression comes back and I become very quiet.
Has anyone experienced the same effects?

Cannabis--like every other drug--comes with negative side effects for some people. It's not all sunshine and roses, especially for people with pre-existing neuropsychiatric disorders.

I probably qualify for half of the diagnoses in the DSM and a few other neurological + autoimmune labels as well, so I know this all too well. For me, Delta-9 THC triggers serious dissociation, panic attacks, and will often make me do weird autistic stereotypies like rocking back and forth or flapping my hand for hours on end. I also get OCD-esque intrusive thought loops where I hyperfixate on how I smell or something equally unimportant.

But CBD? Absolutely miraculous. A bowl of this stuff out of my Elev8r and all the bizarre phenomena that I normally suffer through magically disappear. Exact opposite of what Delta-9 does. I go through grams of flower rich in CBD, CBG, CBC, CBDV, etc. every day and it's just as vital to my health as any pharmaceutical I take. I'd highly recommend that you check out the hemp flower scene if you don't respond too kindly to THC.

Prescription antidepressants like the SNRI you're taking come with the black box warning that they can potentially induce suicidal thoughts in some users. Your mind and body are unique, and that means you might respond atypically to any and every drug you take.

 

[passenger]

A daily medical use with constant results seems to be bound to the same discipline like with every other med. There is a sweet spot that balances out the up and downsides of a medicine. And then there is the individuum, who might experience more or less benefits or side effects. And interactions between different meds, I've read that especially antidepressants are known for this.

 

[Abysmal Vapor]

Lately i have some anger issues while i am vaping. Adding CBD makes it even worse. I have some problems in my personal life and sometimes instead of getting relaxed, i get in strings of dark and violent thoughts. Sometimes there isnt a chemical solution to your problems,i cannot really blame vaping for it, it is there even without it,but maybe it is also because i am realizing it is all me and i am containing it well during interactions with people, but when nature takes effect,i just let my guard down and it pours out .. Feels like someone had their shoe on the hose and all of a sudden he let go and without even knowing i get flooded with negativity,wishing people that hurt me instant demise, which is something i dont want in reality...
Sometimes you just have to unfuck yourself with planting the right thoughts in the garden of your mind .
Things like this piece help me a ton,better than any compound known to man . Improving your lifestyle to a more healthy one and also adding some minor excersize is a gamechanger ! Also meditating.

Travel like a king
Listen to the inner voice
A higher wisdom is at work for you
Conquering the stumbling blocks come easier
When the conqueror is in tune with the infinite
Every ending is a new beginning
Life is an endless unfoldment
Change your mind, and you change your relation to time

You can find the answer
The solution lies within the problem
The answer is in every question
Dig it?
An attitude is all you need to rise and walk away
Inspire yourself
Your life is yours
It fits you like your skin

The oak sleeps in the acorn
The giant sequoia tree sleeps in its tiny seed
The bird waits in the egg
God waits for his unfoldment in man
Fly on, children
Play on

You gravitate to that which you secretly love most
You meet in life the exact reproduction of your own thoughts
There is no chance, coincidence or accident
In a world ruled by law and divine order
You rise as high as your dominant aspiration
You descend to the level of your lowest concept of your self
Free your mind and your ass will follow

The infinite intelligence within you knows the answers
Its nature is to respond to your thoughts
Be careful of the thought-seeds you plant in the garden of your mind
For seeds grow after their kind

 

[darbarikanada]

the way the body's cannabinoid receptors work might relate to this. from what I understand, cannabis use causes the number of receptors to decline, but they eventually go back up (this would explain tolerance - at least partly). the interesting (to me at least) question is what the 'endocannabinoid' system does; I suspect it's part of homeostasis, keeping things in balance. this means that our bodies might have the ability to help regulate mood (e.g. cheer us up when we're down), and that cannabinoids play a role. this theory would predict that there'd be a dip in the body's ability to do this kind of mood self-regulating after using cannabis (so your mood would decline), but that things would gradually stabilize - assuming the cannabis use stopped. this makes sense to me: cannabis causes euphoria, so the body 'thinks' "I don't need to deliver cannabinoids - I'm good".

I've read over and over that there's no causal connection between cannabis use and depression, but a post-getting high 'dip' is very real for me, usually 2-4 days after I use, then goes away after a few more days. if I use 2 days in a row, the dip's usually worse. I've decided that the positives of cannabis make that price acceptable (as long as I don't get high more than ~1x/week).

I read (in 'sapiens') that current research suggests that people have a tendency to gravitate towards a specific point on the happiness spectrum - and that circumstances don't really matter all that much; think of people who stay cheerful in dreadful situations, or people who have it all and are miserable (Howard Hughes?). I think it's quite possible this has to do with the endocannabinoid system, so it'd make sense that cannabis use affects mood - and probably not in a good way.

I think it'll be interesting to see what researchers learn about the endocannabinoid system and mood.

just my 2 cents, fwiw, IMHO, etc.

 

[Miasma]

Sometimes you just have to unfuck yourself with planting the right thoughts in the garden of your mind .
Things like this piece help me a ton,better than any compound known to man . Improving your lifestyle to a more healthy one and also adding some minor excersize is a gamechanger ! Also meditating.

The infinite intelligence within you knows the answers
Its nature is to respond to your thoughts
Be careful of the thought-seeds you plant in the garden of your mind
For seeds grow after their kind

The idea of psychiatric medication is that you stimulate the neural pathways which are responsible for bringing about the perspective described by these lyrics, or something akin to it. There's a two-way feedback loop between your neurochemical state and your subjective experience of the world, so you can actually create the same neurobiological effects with both drugs and 'spiritual' experiences (anything profound enough to produce shifts in perception can be interpreted and described in spiritual terms).

 

[PeteyS]

I think moderation is key for MJ usage.
When i vape small amounts (Eg.0.1g/session), Im good.
Its just when i start vaping bowl after bowl, using the strongest stuff I can find that i start to feel bad. Ive concluded to myself that I was "abusing" cannabis at this point.
Dial it back, or take a T-break. This will take alot of discipline as cannabis IS addictive no matter what people say.

Also you don't have to vape the strongest stuff out there, get some lower THC alternatives or even 1:1 thc/cbd strains.
Cannabis is quite tame, but with all the 20%+ THC strains out there now, its a different beast then it was in the past. I don't think that having that high of THC is healthy for daily brain function.

Another example is psychedelic mushrooms. There is promising researching showing help in anxiety and another disorders, but these tests are done with "microdosing" amounts. Very small amounts. We all know what happens when you take a large amount of shrooms. Haha. Its far from where we want to be at to be functional.

 

[danjens]

Another example is psychedelic mushrooms. There is promising researching showing help in anxiety and another disorders, but these tests are done with "microdosing" amounts. Very small amounts. We all know what happens when you take a large amount of shrooms. Haha. Its far from where we want to be at to be functional.

There are plenty of tests conducted on Macro doses, dating back years. Most notably the Johns Hopkins research on treatment resistant depression. Microdosing is certainly gaining a lot of notoriety and traction as the sub-perceptive doses allow normal daily function. However, current research indicates more immediate and sustained benefit from macro doses.
You're right, we wouldn't want to be on large mushrooms doses all the time, luckily for us, and as the research indicates, that isn't necessary.

As far as vaping is concerned, I absolutely feel "heavier" in my mind and body if I am over indulging. As others discussed mixing cannabinoids can help mitigate some of this, but have also experience an exacerbation of the melancholies just mixing cbd into high T flower. I usually take 2 days off when I experience these sensations.

 

[chimpybits]

the way the body's cannabinoid receptors work might relate to this. from what I understand, cannabis use causes the number of receptors to decline, but they eventually go back up (this would explain tolerance - at least partly). the interesting (to me at least) question is what the 'endocannabinoid' system does; I suspect it's part of homeostasis, keeping things in balance. this means that our bodies might have the ability to help regulate mood (e.g. cheer us up when we're down), and that cannabinoids play a role. this theory would predict that there'd be a dip in the body's ability to do this kind of mood self-regulating after using cannabis (so your mood would decline), but that things would gradually stabilize - assuming the cannabis use stopped. this makes sense to me: cannabis causes euphoria, so the body 'thinks' "I don't need to deliver cannabinoids - I'm good".

I've read over and over that there's no causal connection between cannabis use and depression, but a post-getting high 'dip' is very real for me, usually 2-4 days after I use, then goes away after a few more days. if I use 2 days in a row, the dip's usually worse. I've decided that the positives of cannabis make that price acceptable (as long as I don't get high more than ~1x/week).

I read (in 'sapiens') that current research suggests that people have a tendency to gravitate towards a specific point on the happiness spectrum - and that circumstances don't really matter all that much; think of people who stay cheerful in dreadful situations, or people who have it all and are miserable (Howard Hughes?). I think it's quite possible this has to do with the endocannabinoid system, so it'd make sense that cannabis use affects mood - and probably not in a good way.

I think it'll be interesting to see what researchers learn about the endocannabinoid system and mood.

just my 2 cents, fwiw, IMHO, etc.

Came across this informative article:

How Your Endocannabinoid System Affects Your Cannabis Experience

 

[PeteyS]

Hey Danjens, nice to meet you. Just have a question for you about mixing thc flower with cbd flower. What is the best way to go about doing this?
Should I weigh and grind both flowers, and then combine them into a container and give it a mix?
Thanks.

 

[danjens]

Hey Danjens, nice to meet you. Just have a question for you about mixing thc flower with cbd flower. What is the best way to go about doing this?
Should I weigh and grind both flowers, and then combine them into a container and give it a mix?
Thanks.

Likewise @PeteyS

I don’t know if there is necessarily a best way to go about it. I am a big believer in trial and error, on the individual basis. That said, we live in a time of amazing cbd flower. There is some really great stuff out there nowadays. I am a big fan of just about everything Floyd is doing at Hoku Hemp. There are also some subreddits dedicated to cbd flower that can help point you to the direction desired.

As far as mixing goes if you’ve never played around with it, i like this approach.
Start with a thc strain you are familiar with. Familiar in the sense of effects, mood, duration, etc. maybe even take some notes if you really want to dial things in.
Mix in 50% cbd flower of choice. You can do this by adding equal nugs to a grinder or grinding separate and mixing equal portions of ground flower.
Vape it.
Pay attention to the difference in effects, duration, mood, etc.
Repeat this process at varied ratios/temps and then different strains.
In time you may have found a morning, mid day, after work, and bedtime mix/recipe.

You can also use this to ease your way into tolerance breaks. Simple titration of the ration up to 100%cbd flower, this makes for a really really easy tolerance break in my opinion.

I hope all of this is in the scope of the thread, sincere apologies if I have diverted off topic too much.

I don’t mean to give a vague answer but I really think testing it out for yourself is the best approach.
If you want anymore cbd or alt cannabinoid flower recommendations, dm me and we can chat there.
Best of luck!

 

[SnowChaser]

I have stopped vaping and pretty much stoped the use of THC and my mental health is way better. I'm now using Tinctures just CBN and CBG and i have never felt better. Now im not goign to lie i did like getting high but im at a point where the physical and mental health are more important to me so i'm bio hacking and trying Functional Mushrooms and CBG and love it.

 

[Farid]

THC felt much healthier and more natural to me when I was using it all the time. Now that I barely use it can be a bit stronger than I want it, and feels less therapeutic and more of a "high". So I don't buy the idea that it's better necessarily to use less. I'm forced to abstain because I work long hours, but I actually wish my tolerance was a bit higher like it was when I used all the time.

 

[SnowChaser]

THC felt much healthier and more natural to me when I was using it all the time. Now that I barely use it can be a bit stronger than I want it, and feels less therapeutic and more of a "high". So I don't buy the idea that it's better necessarily to use less. I'm forced to abstain because I work long hours, but I actually wish my tolerance was a bit higher like it was when I used all the time.

Yeah i dont disagree with that at all. I think zero THC is the best thing for overall health. I'm a huge fan of using minor cannabinoids like CBG, CBN and CBC. They are part of my daily routine and i think they have helped a-lot.

 

[Farid]

I think you may misunderstand my point. I'm saying THC felt healthier with a tolerance, i.e more frequent use of THC felt healthier.

One of the biggest killers in this country is obesity. When I would use THC regularly it would keep my metabolism in check, and made it very easy to stay fit. Now that I use less frequently I don't get those benefits. For that reason alone I think the carte blanche statement that zero THC is inherently healthier is not true.

Now I wouldn't say that everyone benefits from this effect, but for me alone, THC is certainly healthier than no THC. The weight I've put on since cutting back is clear evidence enough to me.

 

[WisePenny]

Yeah i dont disagree with that at all. I think zero THC is the best thing for MY overall health. I'm a huge fan of using minor cannabinoids like CBG, CBN and CBC. They are part of my daily routine and i think they have helped a-lot.

Fixed that for you. Which is to say, I'd caution against using a blanket statement such as 'zero THC is the best thing for overall health', as if that were true for everyone, just because it has been your experience. $.02

 

[Abele Rizieri Ferrari]

No thc would make shit way worse lol

 

[Grass Yes]

Yeah, this new member is clearly selling something. Dive-bombing old threads with commercial links.

 

[SnowChaser]

Fixed that for you. Which is to say, I'd caution against using a blanket statement such as 'zero THC is the best thing for overall health', as if that were true for everyone, just because it has been your experience. $.02

Well when someone says " I think" as in " I think zero THC is the best thing for overall health." It my opinion based on my experience. I was not implying that everyone needs to stop using THC, im a big fan of THC. But from my experience as someone looking to optimize health there are things you can avoid and thing you can include to optimize - THC is one of the things I would personally limit if looking for optimal health.

Yeah, this new member is clearly selling something. Dive-bombing old threads with commercial links.

I had no idea this was an old thread i was googling "vaping and depression" and "THC and Depression" i have suffered depression and anxiety and felt THC which originally helped me was now causing issues and i have found other things to be more helpful . I was looking for support, to help support others and in doing so i was sharing what is working for me. I did mention companies and products I use - sorry about that if its against the terms i was just exited about them. I don't have anything to do with these companies - Do your own research on products and Im sorry you felt i was dive bombing it was not the intention.

 

[florduh]

When I would use THC regularly it would keep my metabolism in check, and made it very easy to stay fit. Now that I use less frequently I don't get those benefits.

I don't know if THC directly helps my metabolism. But working out with a buzz is one of life's little pleasures. You do have to be careful if you have any cardiovascular issues, since cannabis slightly elevates your heart rate,

With resistance training, I really feel the muscles contract in a way I don't when sober. And I fucking hate cardio, but a little high... I've had 40 minutes go by on elliptical trainers without realizing it. THC seems to blunt a little of the pain and exhaustion. I know long distance runners who always train at least a little high.

Also meditating.

Another one of life's little pleasures that combines well with cannabis, for me personally at least. If you're not a meditator I suggest looking into those binaural beats/brainwave entrainment audio tracks. Pop one of those on with a buzz and just watch your thoughts. Your mind will eventually go quiet. Extremely therapeutic in my experience.

 

[WisePenny]

Well when someone says " I think" as in " I think zero THC is the best thing for overall health." It my opinion based on my experience. I was not implying that everyone needs to stop using THC, im a big fan of THC. But from my experience as someone looking to optimize health there are things you can avoid and thing you can include to optimize - THC is one of the things I would personally limit if looking for optimal health.

I understand and agree that 'I think', does signify an opinion, but I'd still argue that the 2 statements: "...best thing for overall health" and "...best thing for my overall health" are significantly different. However, I appreciate your clarification and don't want to get caught up in the weeds of semantics.

My experience as well has led me to an understanding that I need a much higher level of CBD than I do THC in my system, as well. When I was younger and had very little knowledge of cannabis, cannabinoids, and the ECS - I overdid it, kept increasing my doses, increased my tolerance, and wasn't ever quite satisfied. For me there certainly was a correlation with that type of high usage and low motivation and mood. I also couldn't ignore the appearance and increase of panic attacks.

I won't get into the specifics of my particular neurological and mental health profile here (although I have touched on it in a couple similar threads), but suffice it to say that since I have found the right balance, my mental health is better than it has ever been. I also drink less, eat healthier, talk about my issues, and exercise regularly - which obviously are all key ingredients to 'optimal health'.

 

[HerbieVonVapster]

Was at one point vaping at a high level from morning to bed. Had to quit due to pain management at the time (the reason I have been from FC so long) since pain management is done thru the cancer center now I can Vap again.
It was too tempting to come here and not be able to vape.
Sorry to ramble off a bit there but being able to medicate again was interesting. When I vaporize heavily never really affects my mind anymore. After a long break my first use I was stoned, the funny munchie laughing high. It’s been a long time since felt this way. I think if a vaporizer every day at a high level changes the chemical balance in the brain.
if this leads to becoming more depression is some people then time for a break. For others, it might affect them in a way that it helps with depression.
I also feel with Americans on a cocktail of drugs for other conditions it's hard to see which ones are helping. Most drug approvals were testing just on that drug. The effect of mixing different medications with themselves now you add cannabis to the mix only you can judge how it affects the headspace.