vaping and breast feeding

[peterchen]

Hi,

my wife is currently breast feeding our newborn baby.
We are aware of the studies regarding the effects of cannabis on the baby via mother's milk and we dont want to expose the baby to it.
We were wondering if it makes sense to take a break from breast feeding (and bottle-feed the baby with previously "tapped" milk) to vape once in a while.
Does anyone have any experience with vaping or weed in general and breast feeding?
Are you aware of any studies, information etc on the time the active components are contained in the milk after vaping?

Thanks a lot in advance!

 

[max]

If the studies you cite separate cannabis effects from smoking effects, good enough. I haven't done that research. As for switching from breast milk to a bottle, I'd say it depends on how old your baby is. You say newborn, so IMO, at that age, I'd stick with Mom milk. Breast milk provides immune protection for the baby that can't be duplicated with anything else. If you haven't done so, google 'benefits of breastfeeding'. Natural is usually better, and in this case I'd definitely concur.

 

[HighlyEducatedScholar]

obviously im all for vaping and cannibis but the health of an baby is definitely top priority and IMO vaping while breastfeeding is not a good idea. breast milk provides a variety of nutrients for the baby including fat which cannabinoids binds to for long periods of time so who knows how long it takes for the breast milk to be completely clean of it. i doubt there have been enough studies done on the presence of cannabinoids in breast milk to make conclusive information. i would just play it safe and not take in cannibis in anyway while breastfeeding.

 

[momofthegoons]

Okay.... I've got to chime in here. I have two children, ages 24 and 28. As I have attested, I have only gone on a t-break a couple of times in my life, and pregnancy and post pregnancy weren't it. My children are both healthy, and very smart. Don't believe me? My son had IQ testing done..... 145. My daughter is currently working on her Masters in Environmental Sustainability at Duke University and will go on for her PhD. Her IQ was never tested, but she was one of the top in her class. Both were very healthy babies and had normal growth, both physically and mentally. I breast fed both, although I did do some supplementing with formula.

As unscientific as my "testimony" is, I really do not feel that there were any detrimental effects from using marijuana during and after my pregnancy. If anything, it helped my morning sickness and a variety of other ailments during the pregnancy, and afterwards, helped with my postpartum ups and downs.

 

[peterchen]

Obviously, babies can be just fine eventhough the mother smokes/vapes/whatever. But it's a fact THC (and other components) make it into the baby via milk and we just dont want that.

Just to clarify, I was talking about bottled mother's milk not any other type of substitute milk.
So, we want to pump some milk, keep it in the fridge, vape, then use the clean milk for 1 or 2 days. The question we have is how long will THC be in the body and thus in the mother's milk. I.e., how long a break does it take to make vaping breaks safe.
Thanks!

 

[momofthegoons]

Sorry.... I just bristle a bit when asked. I feel it feeds into the "dangerous drug" thing, which I do not feel mj is. And, since it helped so much during and after pregnancy, wanted to make my experience known.

As far as how long it stores in the breast milk, I don't know. I would think that it would be much like alcohol, which does not store in breast milk, however this chart, if it can be believed, says that mj is a different story. I don't know. There's a lot of misinformation out there on mj, but if you are really concerned, perhaps the wife should just abstain.

 

[vap999]

Sorry.... I just bristle a bit when asked. I feel it feeds into the "dangerous drug" thing, which I do not feel mj is. And, since it helped so much during and after pregnancy, wanted to make my experience known.

As far as how long it stores in the breast milk, I don't know. I would think that it would be much like alcohol, which does not store in breast milk, however this chart, if it can be believed, says that mj is a different story. I don't know. There's a lot of misinformation out there on mj, but if you are really concerned, perhaps the wife should just abstain.

I think the following extract from the chart cited is very plausible and likely accurate.

"When a breastfeeding mother smokes [or vapes] marijuana, THC (the active component of the drug) appears in her breast milk in quantities that can reach eight times the amount in her bloodstream. In addition, secondhand smoke increases the baby's exposure to the drug. And the results are long lasting: Babies exposed to marijuana in breast milk will excrete THC in their urine for two to three weeks after exposure."

THC and other cannabinoids are well-known to be preferentially soluble in lipids (fats), with milk containing a high level of fats, and be deposited and slowly released in fatty tissues, surely including the breasts and baby fat. If THC (and/or metabolites) can typically be detected using routine immunoassays (dip-stick tests; not more sensitive high-end mass spectrometry) for a month of longer, it can be assumed the cannabinoids are concentrated even more in breast milk than urine. So readily detectable levels should be expected to persist in breast milk for weeks, maybe even weeks more than a month! So if near zero exposure of the infant is desired, as with sensitive drug testing, stopping for few days or even a few weeks will not be enough! You (parents) will have to decide for yourselves how long an intake break, how much exposure, you desire for your infant!

The options to reduce the infant's exposure (reduce cannabinoid and metabolite levels in breast milk) are either:
1) weeks of abstinence (to clean out), then continued abstinence while resuming normal breastfeeding and also pumping out and storing as much as you can, and once you have enough on-hand (many weeks worth; if that's practical), then resuming normal intake and using the stored milk; then starting another cycle of abstinence as the stored supplies get lower (still will need weeks worth to get through each abstinence period). This may or may not even be practical/feasible.
2) total abstinence until breastfeeding is halted
3) use the services of or purchase (however it works these days) the pumped milk of (an)other non-smoking/vaping pregnant woman/women (wet-nurses?)
4) simply switch to store-bought formula and resume normal recreational use. If you do some research, I presume the immune system benefits of breastfeeding (what you want) reach a point of limited returns after a certain period (maybe even just a few weeks?). Ask your pediatrician about switching, or there should be a lot of information about this online.

The later 3 options provide zero infant exposure, and the last one seems the most practical. But the bottom line is, just like passing a moderate-intense drug test, it takes weeks to clear your system.

 

[Magic9]

Well, since I'm an expert on both breast feeding and vaping.....(sarcasm, of course). If you are worried about it, don't do it. Better safe than sorry. Of course, any scripts or even OTC meds are probably more damaging. Bottom line, do what you guys are comfortable with. Since you are undecided though, the more info the better right? Get ready to read.

http://norml.org/about/item/pregnancy?category_id=1078
http://norml.org/library/health-rep...cy-a-review-of-the-literature?category_id=555

I think the following extract from the chart cited is very plausible and likely accurate.

"When a breastfeeding mother smokes [or vapes] marijuana, THC (the active component of the drug) appears in her breast milk in quantities that can reach eight times the amount in her bloodstream. In addition, secondhand smoke increases the baby's exposure to the drug. And the results are long lasting: Babies exposed to marijuana in breast milk will excrete THC in their urine for two to three weeks after exposure."

There is very little in the bloodstram after a few hours from ingestion. That is one reason they take piss instead of blood. The guy that did the study (mice) to find that 8x amount, Franjo Grotenhermen, says as long as it is not "heavy" use, everything shoud be fine.

THC passes into the breast milk. In monkeys 0.2% of the THC ingested by the mother appeared in the milk (Chao et al. 1976). Chronic administration leads to accumulation (Perez-Reyes and Wall 1982a). In a human female the THC concentration in milk was 8.4 times higher than in plasma (Perez-Reyes and Wall 1982a). Thus, the nursing infant might ingest daily THC amounts in the range of about 0.01-0.1 mg from the milk of her mother who is consuming 1-2 cannabis cigarettes a day, assuming an average daily ingestion of 700 mL milk.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/76402381/Journal-of-Cannabis-Therapeutics-Year-2003-Issue-1

Interesting story in light of Moms revelation.
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn8155-marijuana-might-cause-new-cell-growth-in-the-brain.html

 

[peterchen]

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Thanks guys. That was what we were looking for.
Probably gonna just let it be and play safe.

 

[Bluntcrush]

I have heard similar things about moms who have abstained entirely from drinking while pregnant and then after the 2nd month (the longer you wait the better for the baby) do whats called a "Pump and Dump" They save breast milk for about 1.5 days of normal feeding, and then have their night out and drink and party! After the drinking they immediately start drinking TONS of liquids (water) and pump out the "affected" milk and discard it. They use the reserved mother's milk (some also supplement with formula) until their milk is back to normal. ( 1-2 days) It helps some moms deal with a lot of postpartum stress. The essential immune system component delivered in breast milk is Colostrum which helps to build the infant's nervous system and ability to fight off disease. However the full benefit of Colostrum is not deleivered until after the third month of breastfeeding.

We are not big drinkers (tea totalers at best) but we do love us our Canna! My wife entirely abstained from any form of Cannabis as soon as she found out we were pregnant (right around 6 weeks and much to her chagrin ) We agreed that I could continue to vaporize (our only method for two years) and she would abstain from liquor and Canna throught the pregnancy. + the three months after for the critical breastfeeding. YOW! I was relegated to an area in the basement for awhile, but we did fine. I could not believe my wife's tremendous will power It was like a Jedi pregnancy! After about three and a half months of breastfeeding we started supplementing with formula and weened our son off of brestmilk and onto formula. It is especially helpful because the truth is: "many women do not produce enough BM to really provide all the nourishment that is needed." Our baby doc said whenever we felt the need after the first two months we could use formula anytime my wife wanted a break, or we felt that our son was showing signs of still being hungry! (just like his poppa!) Ultimately we were entirely done with breastfeeding after the fourth month.

We still do not expose our son to any form of vapor, (we have an awesome vapor lounge we remodeled a room in our basement for now ) Now that our son is almost 6 mos. we have a great place for us to go hang out at night and really enjoy or relationship again! Life is good!!!

I hope this helps you and I am sending the best to you and your new family!!!

 

[herbgirl]

My
I used cannabis throughout both pregnancies (to treat my hyperemesis) & nursing times. In my case, the medical benefits for me in moderating my bipolar disorder outweighed any negligible effect it might have on my children. I researched it and was comfortable with the 'risks'. Seeing as there were no noticeable effects, and I now have two intelligent, healthy boys. I'm with momofthegoons on this one.

However,
Trying to pump and get a decent store of milk (when one was in nicu with other issues) was a nightmare and very stressful, we lost a good bit of it to freezer malfunctions, etc. It's tough on the body/mind (dear hubby would MOOOOO loudly when he heard that pump running - which was almost constantly) and takes tons of time too. You will also likely need a more robust pump than the ones in the stores, I had to rent mine from the hospital.
I never did figure out how long it took to clear my system, I assumed it would be weeks, so I never bothered trying to abstain. Should I nurse then medicate? no because, the refill starts just after nursing and if you are medicated, it's going into the milk for the next feeding. Should I medicate, then nurse? no because often the infant empties the breast and the milk is then being produced on demand. My boys nursed constantly, so it wasn't really realistic to expect to work around that. It seemed that there was no right answer, so i just went ahead and did it. I now feel that the negative propaganda surrounding cannabis use in pregnancy/nursing is greatly exaggerated. As an herbalist, I would recommend cannabis to a pregnant/nursing woman under the right circumstances, but not smoked, ingested or vaporized only.

I feel that breastmilk, even with THC in it, is FARFARFAR superior to formula, it changes in nutritional profile to meet the baby's needs for as long as nursing continues, so I applaud your choice of breastfeeding in the first place. The longer you do it the more beneficial it is, up to a point.

but I digress...

Only you and your wife can choose what is best for your infant. It may be best if she abstains for a while, but speaking from personal experience, I see no harm in it.

 

[lwien]

We just need to be careful here with anecdotal evidence. While one may not have personally experienced any negative affects, that does not automatically mean that there aren't any risk factors for anyone else.

The risk/reward ratio just needs to be weighed out. For some, the reward is worth the risk. For others, it may not be.

 

[TriiKLe]

There was a study done about this subject in Jamaica where MOST women use Cannabis. It showed they just got high and happy and the kids were all healthy. They also found out that the children born from these families were even better off because they were surrounded by a more peaceful environment.

 

[obelisk]

Hi,

I don't know much about breasts, let alone breast feeding, but I will say that this is a forum that is absolutely about ingesting marijuana. There is obviously a bias here. Just as there is a bias with the anti-pot agenda outside (which I do not, obviously, concur with).

I know this much: most partakers believe that MJ is not a 'dangerous drug'. That is a relative statement. I've been smoking weed since I was a little kid and I've smoked more quantities in a single day for years and years than most people here, I am sure (over 12 grams a day, on a normal day, I don't even know how much on a 'heavy' day). If you are pre-disposed to mental health issues, like I am or like my brother is, it IS a dangerous drug. That said, I still smoke/vape/whatever every day. I just am cognizant of how it affects me and deal with it accordingly. Like I said, 'dangerous' is a relative term.

My brother is a diagnosed schizophrenic and what triggered his condition, primarily, not solely, is marijuana. Most people here would probably not want to believe that, and that is none of my business. Know this: MJ is a very complicated plant, and we have very little idea about its chemistry and how it affects our own. One has to know how it affects one individually, and take it from there. Doctors know little, and potheads surely know even less. (Sorry). Anecdotes do not science make. That includes my own, of course. When in doubt, pick the seemingly safest option.

 

[WatTyler]

^ definitely not an idiot.

well put.

 

[Bluntcrush]

I agree. That was very cogently stated, while still taking the scenic route! Great Job!

 

[TriiKLe]

What other things set off your brother's Schizophrenia?

Hi,

I don't know much about breasts, let alone breast feeding, but I will say that this is a forum that is absolutely about ingesting marijuana. There is obviously a bias here. Just as there is a bias with the anti-pot agenda outside (which I do not, obviously, concur with).

I know this much: most partakers believe that MJ is not a 'dangerous drug'. That is a relative statement. I've been smoking weed since I was a little kid and I've smoked more quantities in a single day for years and years than most people here, I am sure (over 12 grams a day, on a normal day, I don't even know how much on a 'heavy' day). If you are pre-disposed to mental health issues, like I am or like my brother is, it IS a dangerous drug. That said, I still smoke/vape/whatever every day. I just am cognizant of how it affects me and deal with it accordingly. Like I said, 'dangerous' is a relative term.

My brother is a diagnosed schizophrenic and what triggered his condition, primarily, not solely, is marijuana. Most people here would probably not want to believe that, and that is none of my business. Know this: MJ is a very complicated plant, and we have very little idea about its chemistry and how it affects our own. One has to know how it affects one individually, and take it from there. Doctors know little, and potheads surely know even less. (Sorry). Anecdotes do not science make. That includes my own, of course. When in doubt, pick the seemingly safest option.

 

[lwien]

There was a study done about this subject in Jamaica where MOST women use Cannabis. It showed they just got high and happy and the kids were all healthy. They also found out that the children born from these families were even better off because they were surrounded by a more peaceful environment.

For every positive report, I can post up a negative one and what typically happens is that the positive reports are bashed as pro-pot propaganda by the anti-MJ crowd and the negative reports are bashed as anti-pot propaganda by dedicated MJ users and in all probability, they are both right and both wrong, so in light of that, Obelisk's quote below really makes the most sense.

When in doubt, pick the seemingly safest option.

Well put.

 

[Magic9]

Sorry, I had this posted in another thread. It seems to fit here perfectly so I'm just going to copy and paste.


If I may, it's not that we automatically just dismiss the anti-cannabis studies for no reason. It's the constant propaganda and lying they have subjected us too. The psychosis study has been debunked already.

http://stash.norml.org/cannabis-use-pre ican-study

http://norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=7592

http://stash.norml.org/new-study-casts- izophrenia

http://norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=7253

http://norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=774 rmat=print

The US government says we need more studies. Why the fuck won't they allow them then?

http://norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=8092 ----They won't approve pro cannabis studies.

How about if a judge approves it, 45 senators, some scientific, medical and public health org? Nope.

http://stash.norml.org/in-last-week-of- -marijuana

EDIT* The final nail in the coffin, IMO, is the fact that even though cannabis use has went up, the schizo rate has remained flat.

http://www.time.com/time/health/article 59,00.html


EDIT*
Here is the original thread--- http://www.fuckcombustion.com/viewtopic.php?id=4879

EDIT**
We need more studies done and we need the govt. (bought and paid for) to not interfere. The only way that will happen, to any significant extent is legalization. Until those studies are done, and prove me wrong (or not), I contend sugar (mainly of corn variety), tylenol, and many other common everyday items are much worse.
I know this is totally anecdotal (the link below), but at least 2,700 years (probably closer to double that), of consumption, and we can't get some unbiased tests? Fuck them and their propaganda. I used to listen to both sides, but when one side lies and manipulates constantly, they lose credibility. It's 2012 and there should be no obstacles to testing such a long, and much used natural substance that is LEGAL in 15 states (medical, of course). Why do they drag their feet? They know they are wrong. Kind of a big "oops" for them to admit to. So fuck them. Sorry for the rant and goodnight.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/2803492...worlds-oldest-marijuana-stash-totally-busted/

 

[Monk Debate]

Hi all, sorry for the necrobump on this thread.

My wife is going to be giving birth to our first child at the end of the month. She’s not planning on drinking or using pot while she’s breastfeeding. However I do vape pot most days and I was wondering what the safest way to do that is with a baby in the house.

I know that with smoking, the smoke can stick to clothes and furniture and the baby can pick up smoke inhalation that way. Is that true with vapor as well? I’ve never had my wife or anyone else tell me I smell of pot after I vape (if I’m vaping flower the flower itself smells but they all go back in smell proof containers when I’m done).

We have a room in the house that’s separate, you have to go through the garage to get to it, and that’s where I was planning on vaping exclusively while the baby is young. My question is, do I need to have a set of vaping clothes that I only wear while I’m vaping and then switch back to clean clothes after? Is that a useful step or taking things too far?

I’d love to get some opinions from people who have a baby and continued to vape.

Thanks!

 

[jardri]

There is no problem as long as you vape in a separate room. No need to change clothes or cleaning teeth just drink something after you vape and you will be ok.

 

[Monk Debate]

There is no problem as long as you vape in a separate room. No need to change clothes or cleaning teeth just drink something after you vape and you will be ok.

Thank you! That seems a lot easier. Much appreciated!

 

[Brewervapesalot]

Sorry.... I just bristle a bit when asked. I feel it feeds into the "dangerous drug" thing, which I do not feel mj is. And, since it helped so much during and after pregnancy, wanted to make my experience known.

As far as how long it stores in the breast milk, I don't know. I would think that it would be much like alcohol, which does not store in breast milk, however this chart, if it can be believed, says that mj is a different story. I don't know. There's a lot of misinformation out there on mj, but if you are really concerned, perhaps the wife should just abstain.

There's been times I wish my pregnant wife would just toke on a vaporizer for sure. She has after birth and it helps her level out emotions.

Second hand smoke claims are waaaaay overblown to a point of being fictitious IMO. I know because not even ambulance chasing lawyers can base a suit on second hand smoke ever hurting anyone; such suits have never been brought successfully... when evidence actually gets tested in court.

 

[little maggie]

Just my opinion: A baby's brain does an incredible amount of development especially during the first year. Avoiding anything that impacts the growing and pruning of brain cells seems important. There just isn't enough research on cannabis. It could turn out that it's a benefit to a developing brain but we just don't know yet. I know many women go off antidepressants during the first several months or so. There was no research when I was an infant but I wish my mother had taken a break from cigarettes.

 

[Brewervapesalot]

Sure. Better safe than sorry has to be balanced with lack of paranoia and living your life.

Personally I think pot is way more mild than either additives in cigarettes or the effects of alcohol. Cigarettes and alcohol make their side effects known the day after. Weed really is mild to non-existent in comparison.