Toxins present in vapour? Or purely in combustion?

[herbivore21]

Yes, pure samples of Benzene when heated in a vacuum have a boiling point of 392 F or so.

But, we don't vape pure isolates of any of the products in MJ and what products we do extract are from a complex plant structure so the prevailing thought is that this smears out the boiling point into a range at which you may see this product.

I also note that in the tables on this subject that I have seen, the % of benzene is always a question mark. Not sure why but I presume that if it was released in any significant qty that it would be detected and listed, no?

Thanks for this brother, you totally saved me from having to explain this again (I swear I am explaining this point every other day lol).

We might also add that even where studies have found that cannabis flower releases benzene in some detectable amount (remember benzene limits from the OSHA are in the single-double digits of ppm IIRC), cannabis flower contains a lot of inactive plant components that are prone to substantial thermal-oxidative decomposition long before the essential oil fraction starts to degrade. Take that plant material out, and you may not have any benzene produced at all from a concentrate. You also might find that even if you can still produce harmful byproducts from essential oil preparations, that the temp to cause such decomposition will be considerably higher than a dry, ground herb because we are dealing with a viscous liquid instead whose content is quite different.

 

[Baron23]

The thing is, chemicals begin to evaporate before they reach their boiling temperatures.

Yes, but in a vacumm the boiling point is lowered significantly and we don't vape in a vacumm.

I don't really have any idea what all of these factors finally sum to, a good reason to support expanded scientific research.

 

[EverythingsHazy]

Yes, but in a vacumm the boiling point is lowered significantly and we don't vape in a vacumm.

I don't really have any idea what all of these factors finally sum to, a good reason to support expanded scientific research.

You don't have to do it in a vacuum. Unless I'm missing something..?

 

[herbivore21]

You don't have to do it in a vacuum. Unless I'm missing something..?

See what I've said above man. Claims about the decomposition of cannabis flower simply cannot be extrapolated and held to be true about concentrates that are substantially different in composition - regardless of vacuum.

 

[Baron23]

You don't have to do it in a vacuum. Unless I'm missing something..?

You are missing what I'm saying which is that these boiling points were determined in the following manner: pure samples heated in a vacumm. This is the standard environment used for this sort of thing, apparently. I see this at in the notes on a number of these tables.

Its not that it HAS to be, its that is how it WAS done to establish those figures.

 

[EverythingsHazy]

See what I've said above man. Claims about the decomposition of cannabis flower simply cannot be extrapolated and held to be true about concentrates that are substantially different in composition - regardless of vacuum.

I didn't say that they were the same as concentrates. I'm talking specifically about the flower, and how it decomposes. I have no idea how concentrates and temperatures work. I just want to know why 390F seems to be a significant number with ground bud.

Either benzene is being released or synthesized, and I want proof of which is occurring.

 

[Baron23]

Either benzene is being released or synthesized, and I want proof of which is occurring.

Well then, get to the lab and get cracking, mate!

 

[chris 71]

i think benzene is a product of incomplete combustion , not something that is there to begin with , but produced through thermal degradation and not necessarily complete combustion .

 

[Milkinson]

I wouldn't worry about toxin levels with vapor. You'll breathe more crap on a daily basis in most cities than via vaping. If you're concerned about keeping the levels low though, just stay away from the higher temps.

I'm not concerned, just curious. True enough, standing near running vehicles I'm pretty sure you breathe in worse fumes

The thing is, chemicals begin to evaporate before they reach their boiling temperatures. If benzene is present in fresh bud, then we are getting it before 390F. If it is being synthesized at 390F there should be some definitive proof of that somewhere.

Seriously.... how hard is it for ONE of the many many scientific stoners to set aside a few grams of bud, and vaporize each load at 5 degree increments, recording the chemical profile of the vapor for each, and then take a few loads, and vaporize them at each of those temps while testing the resulting vapor for each bag filled? In legal states, it shouldn't be that difficult, at all. If someone can do that, we'll finally start to have some useful data to work with. From what I've seen so far, almost all of these vaguely written, shady studies, put out by either anti-cannabis or pro-cannabis organizations, are "meh" at best, and do not satisfy my quest for the facts.

I'm confused; so no one knows for sure whether benzene is released or synthesized and in what amount?? EverythingsHazy = correct, a definitive study should totally exist

This is what started me thinking about it: temp chart @22seconds. It's so vague.

 

[C No Ego]

combustion = 4000 plus aromatic hydrocarbons created from the plant matter

vaporizing = two known carcinogens... the harms from vaporizing are more from breathing in heated air( think fireman walking into burning buildings breathing in hot air)... and also malformed/mutated pesticides that are not charred/burned like would happen with combustion....
this is my theory about pesticides being delivered in the vape process where smoking would destroy them and not deliver them in the air pathway like a vape does.... again IMO

so, compared to smoking a plant vaporizing it can be so much cleaner and the main benefits are delivery of cannabinoids cleanly where smoke would distort/ destroy those same canna molecules.. organic cannabis and vaporizers = the best

I am speaking of flowers only here or dried herb and have zero experience with concentrates... east coast blues

 

[Burt]

this is my theory about pesticides being delivered in the vape process where smoking would destroy them and not deliver them in the air pathway like a vape does.... again IMO

Smoking also vapes the material (i.e. the material a few mm away from the burning bit). So any pesticides which would be delivered by a vape will also be delivered by combustion, in addition to all the combustion badness.

 

[C No Ego]

Smoking also vapes the material (i.e. the material a few mm away from the burning bit). So any pesticides which would be delivered by a vape will also be delivered by combustion, in addition to all the combustion badness.

very true... but will vaping with a vape deliver more or less of those? hard to know really

 

[Melting Pot]