Toxins present in vapour? Or purely in combustion?

[Milkinson]

Hi FC, this is my first post

I am a newly converted vaper, took the plunge and got my Volcano Classic three weeks ago.
It’s amazing; so glad to not be smoking anymore!

Been doing my best at vape research… A lot of the information I’ve come across implies that benzene and other toxic bad shit can still be present in vapour if the temperature is high enough.
I’m pretty sure my vaporizer isn’t burning anything, even when it’s turned up full.

Is it temperature or combustion which releases the bad stuff?

Is combustion completely separate from vape temperatures, or is it basically just the high end of the same scale? (if that makes sense…?)

Can anyone give me some science?

Thanks!

 

[Farid]

Temperature aside, there's something else we don't think about. How clean the bud is, and how clean you are about the process of vaping. If you let dog hair and pieces of fiber get into your bowl without noticing, you are going to have more toxins in your vapor.

 

[Milkinson]

Ha, ok, hypothetically then if the herb's all clean and good...

 

[chris 71]

the problem is how do you know your bud is all clean and good , unless you grow it your self .
even here in canada were we have a goverment regulated program for example , that is supposed to be heavily regulated , we cant be sure .
recently there have been recalls for unapproved pesticides that when heated produce Hydrogen cyanide .

there are even approved pesticides that they are allowed to use . even these so called safe pesticides if you look up there mds sheets you will see that when heated , these products create Carbon dioxide and Carbon monoxide . part of the reason for me wanting to vape rather then smoke is for the benefit of the reduction in Carbon monoxide .
anyway what im getting at is , its not just the difference of combustion vs vaping it really is a case of just what is in or on your weed . and from my understating of what i read these things require heating not necessarily burning to produce the nasty stuff

 

[Rebelistic]

I think sadly there are still likely to be some toxins in vapor but far fewer than in smoke.

My thinking is not very scientific but they say even toast is bad and that toasts at 310F. Exposure to anything cooked seems to be bad in some way. Exposeure from vapor is probably minimal and might not be significant.
I think cannabis has anti cancer properties though so even when smoked there doesn't seem to be much evidence for harm.
This is just my understanding and I could be wrong though.

 

[max]

This is an old study, but there's not much of a recent nature to cite.

I wouldn't worry about toxin levels with vapor. You'll breathe more crap on a daily basis in most cities than via vaping. If you're concerned about keeping the levels low though, just stay away from the higher temps.

 

[Hippie Dickie]

i see it as a continuum, with a more rapid release of toxins as the temp reaches and passes combustion ... but i also think that what a toxin is, and what effect it has, requires a context. For example, i have settled into a daily life routine of real food, vigorous exercise, and cannabis ... i bet my life on "it" being a matter of balance ... i do know that i sweat some of the toxins out of my body. when i started on the NordicTrack (first of four) almost 35 years ago, my sweat would leave a white precipitate.

i can get vapor for several hits after the thc is gone - fortunately, thc has a much lower vaporization temperature than these "end of session" hits. i assume this vapor is leaf and/or leaf goo - and pyrolysis is why the ABV is golden brown (to blackish).

i know alcohol is a poison, but i have a daily merlot.

and, it seems to me, in the age of Wikipedia and Google search, there are no more questions ... only anecdotes. so this is mine.

 

[hinglemccringleberry]

Benzene is introduced into the vapor at 392F. If you want to avoid that, which i've heard is one of vapor's most "toxic" offenders, just stay below that temperature.

 

[herbivore21]

Heating of your flower in a vaporizer takes place unevenly; after all, we are heating a load of organic matter whose constituents are inconsistently distributed throughout the sample. If you are using conduction, then the conductive properties of the material heating your flowers must be considered, some substances distribute heat more evenly than others. Even with a convection vape, there will still be some conductive and radiant heat in most cases. The hot air in a convection vape will still travel through the load differently depending on the airflow through different parts of the load. We can expect that if you keep vaping a load til you see no more vapor, then you have heated and inhaled more than just the resin that you wanted, and that there is an increasing chance as you keep on vaping that some parts of the load may thermally decompose too much and create harmful byproducts.

Of course, these will be considerably less and potentially not all of the same harmful byproducts you'd get from combustion. If you want to stay on the safe side, consider using lower temps on your vaporizers and vape until the flavor starts to deteriorate, rather than til no more vapor comes out of the load.

If you want to be safer still, consider vaporizing concentrates, which when done right contain nothing except for the resin you are seeking to boil. It is much easier to boil just the stuff that you want for inhalation when all that you have in the bowl is the active material to begin with

Don't worry (as too many do) about combustion due to the temps you see on people's e-nail controllers when they consume concentrates. That is not the temp on the vaporization surface (which is actually usually considerably lower) and most obviously, the temps that would combust flowers are not going to combust oil, which is not flammable at these temps because it is missing the inactive and extra-flammable plant material which was left in the flower!

If you have more questions about concentrates, by all means ask. This may be a whole lot of new information for a new vaporist in the UK, where a lot of the new concentrates have not necessarily become so well known yet

Welcome to FC!

 

[verdampersweats]

You are a bit of an info animal @herbivore21 i hope one day i can add this to the things i memorize. So tell me i heard of this effect when you boil where it levitates but layman terms me here what is the lowest realistic temp someone could dab some Indica oil? Lets say a Kush because lower temps mean to me lower carcinogens but i would want the sedating effect.

I see peoples nails with the residue i do not like it, And also i seen a rosin press video with what looked like to me an oil too dark and there was smoke or vapor coming out it looked like smoke to me not vapor. So in my mind i see dabbing as unsafe unless at lower temps.

I also for the reasons with the high heat on rosin presses do not really prefer to venture there over kief either as kief seems like a cleaner extract while less potent it is still great stuff. Heck you could use a high quality organic bubble hash run and grate that up into powder and vape it. And again for the above heat reasons i think that this bubble vaped at around 200c with Indica would be cleaner in my mind than these dabbed oils no?

Obviously the other forms of extraction i know off like CO2 would be great if vaped but again i am still hesitant to dab it above 230c or consume heat press oils. So if you ever get the time i would like to see some hard science on this. But as you can tell i like to keep Cannabis very clean and healthy and as of yet need to put time and effort into oils because as you say it is not here yet for us. I would for sure though vaporize some CO2 oil for sure that would be a great step up over bud!

 

[nomadicsoul34]

No doubt there are toxins in vapour. Toxins are present everywhere so I guess its a question of dosage.
I like to get high and i dont trust the alcohol firms more than i trust joe bloggs the herb grower.

For those of you worried about toxins from vapour and smoke i highly recommend growing your own broccoli sprouts . Dead easy and only takes a few days. You can freeze them. They are the next big thing in antioxidants 30 x more sulforaphane than standard broccoli and studies have shown people that consume them start to pass ( piss) toxins found in smoke within hours.
Has anti cancer and anti ageing benefits to boot. Watch out for news on this awesome little plant over the next couple of years.
Sadly as i have seen first hand scientists need money to do research and big pharma doesnt sponsor anything that we can produce ourselves.
Dr Rhonda Patrick talks sulphophane in length on this Joe Rogan podcast and there are many other places to read up about it. Fascinating interview for anyone interesting in extending their life.

 

[herbivore21]

You are a bit of an info animal @herbivore21

I see peoples nails with the residue i do not like it, And also i seen a rosin press video with what looked like to me an oil too dark and there was smoke or vapor coming out it looked like smoke to me not vapor. So in my mind i see dabbing as unsafe unless at lower temps.

I also for the reasons with the high heat on rosin presses do not really prefer to venture there over kief either as kief seems like a cleaner extract while less potent it is still great stuff. Heck you could use a high quality organic bubble hash run and grate that up into powder and vape it. And again for the above heat reasons i think that this bubble vaped at around 200c with Indica would be cleaner in my mind than these dabbed oils no?

Obviously the other forms of extraction i know off like CO2 would be great if vaped but again i am still hesitant to dab it above 230c or consume heat press oils. So if you ever get the time i would like to see some hard science on this. But as you can tell i like to keep Cannabis very clean and healthy and as of yet need to put time and effort into oils because as you say it is not here yet for us. I would for sure though vaporize some CO2 oil for sure that would be a great step up over bud!

Lol man I am a professional scientist/academic so info is my livelihood

Generally, the temp on the dial being used on an e-nail can vary by 100-200f higher than the actual temp on the dish surface. Basically, we operate an e-nail at the higher end of temps we'd vape flowers with. For example, I tend to operate my SiC halo at 500-520f. The actual dish temp will be more like 420-450f. Of course this temp is reduced when you apply the oil to the surface until the heater coil compensates. Other materials such as Sapphire and Quartz have greatly different thermal properties and so the difference between the temp on the dial and the temp at the surface will vary accordingly (also with different designs/form factors obviously).

Nobody using a good quality contemporary e-nail setup and qtipping tek has a filthy enail like you describe having seen man. I clean my rig and e-nail once every two days at maximum. My products come up looking as new with no residue at all in sight. I do not ever have visible reclaim buildup in my glass as I clean before this happens! Your concerns regarding dirty dab setups are moot if you take care of your shit properly using well-known practices for dabbing

The heat used in a rosin press is not necessarily high at all man. I frequently press at low temps that converters are telling me equate to about 90c in your local units of measurement My rosin reliably tastes considerably better than the flowers it came from - not just a little bit! The color of extracts is not a way to judge quality or safety when it comes to solventless extraction btw. You should see the colors I've gotten from my full melt bubble hash before! See my avatar for one example - that is my 6 star bubble hash that I made, magnified at 300x. I make all of my own medicine for additional piece of mind. By the way, the absolute best way to consume full melt bubble hash IME (and I've owned more than 20 different high end vaporizers now!) is a sapphire enail. The best quality bubble hash should never be grated into powder as this breaches the resin glands and causes terpene loss (this is a large part of the difference in flavor and effects between full melt hash vs rosin).

For me, flowers and kief don't help my medical needs. Flowers don't give long enough lasting effects for my needs and dosing becomes a constant distraction throughout my busy days. Flowers are useless for a full night's sleep IME as I have a number of conditions which cause insomnia. It isn't that flower isn't strong enough so much as it doesn't last long enough. I have the same issues with kief as with flowers and this is why I ended up learning all of the different concentration methods under the sun over the last few years! Some times you just have to give it a whirl and see for yourself Concentrates seem to have much longer-lasting effects and so much better meet my medical needs. I consume less weight of resin now that I only dab concentrates than I did in flowers. When consuming rosin, I actually use less weight of flowers per week to make my meds than when I vaped flowers - almost half as much!!!

Rosin is not what I always consume because I prefer whole resin glands extracted in cold rather than rosin - this is the holy grail of cannabis IME. Still I prefer rosin to flowers or other kinds of extract any day of the week! If there was no full melt, rosin would be the holy grail of basic extracts (without moving into isolation/separation and further processing).

Please also understand that most of the kief people are getting out of their grinders is little more than finely ground herb that fell through the screen: this may not necessarily involve much 'concentration' of actives. I am saying this as a result of my high magnification high resolution imaging of various samples of kief people have shown me over the years. These high magnification images do not lie and it becomes clear very quickly just how much ground up plant material we are still dealing with

By the way, my standards for cleanliness and safety of concentrates are generally unmatched and possibly even regarded as excessive by some - folks here will tell you I'm more of a stickler for safe production of MMJ than just about anybody! I also have the know-how and experience in all kinds of extraction methods to meet these strict standards with my own extracts.

I encourage you man, try to make some rosin of your own and dab it to see the difference. One thing you will quickly notice is that the taste of a well-made dab is infinitely better than the lowest temp flower vaping you've ever done. If the temps were too high and the volatile terps were being spoiled, rosin would not taste so great!

 

[zenmasterofzinfandel]

when i started on the NordicTrack (first of four) almost 35 years ago, my sweat would leave a white precipitate.

I been exercising since a child, black T-shirt shows evaporated sweet, a white precipitate...have not had my sweat tested for toxins, always assumed the precipitate was salt...D'oh.

i can get vapor for several hits after the thc is gone - fortunately, thc has a much lower vaporization temperature than these "end of session" hits. i assume this vapor is leaf and/or leaf goo - and pyrolysis is why the ABV is golden brown (to blackish).

Probably logical assumption, but still is not proof. I would like ABV lab tested for *every* temp I could think of vaping @. That would give you what is left over. I would also like to see a scientific peer-reviewed study, using a well thought out machine to simulate inhalation, and measure those vapors at various temps. How did they do toxicology studies on cigarettes?

i know alcohol is a poison, but i have a daily merlot.

I know of an Amer winemaker that spoke to a French Vineron of an organic domaine, asked what he did for weeds, led the winemaker into the shack and pointed & said 'Le Roundup'. Seems recent tests of Cali wines(Merlot included), showed residual amounts of 'Le Roundup' in *all* wines tested, minute amounts in the 'organic' wines, but still there. LD50 on water is higher than alcohol(ethyl), but both are deadly in extreme cases...and Le roundup is 'linked' to potential cancer causing. Living is dangerous to your health, but what's the alternative?

and, it seems to me, in the age of Wikipedia and Google search, there are no more questions ... only anecdotes. so this is mine.

Master Po: Seek not to know the answers, but to understand the questions.

 

[zenmasterofzinfandel]

Lol man I am a professional scientist/academic so info is my livelihood

The actual dish temp will be more like 420-450f.

^And how is everyone testing the temp to show 420-450F, which is too high for my health concerns. Back in 2000, I bought a Vrip stem, made my own water pipe from mayonnaise jar, filled with only ice, Steinel heat gun with digital temp readout. I used a bi-metalic probe from a multimeter, prob asbestos woven fabric covered wire. Was able to squeeze the wire flat between the Vrip stem & metal nozzle reducer I put on the heat gun. Probe was in the airflow, in the bud I had put into the stem/bowl, not touching the glass sides of the bowl/stem. That was a fairly good approximation of heat, and no way I would go to 450, even 420 was a bit high for my tastes, YMMV

I make all of my own medicine for additional piece of mind. By the way, the absolute best way to consume full melt bubble hash IME (and I've owned more than 20 different high end vaporizers now!) is a sapphire enail. The best quality bubble hash should never be grated into powder as this breaches the resin glands and causes terpene loss (this is a large part of the difference in flavor and effects between full melt hash vs rosin).

For me, flowers and kief don't help my medical needs. Flowers don't give long enough lasting effects for my needs and dosing becomes a constant distraction throughout my busy days. Flowers are useless for a full night's sleep IME as I have a number of conditions which cause insomnia. It isn't that flower isn't strong enough so much as it doesn't last long enough.

Rosin is not what I always consume because I prefer whole resin glands extracted in cold rather than rosin - this is the holy grail of cannabis IME. If the temps were too high and the volatile terps were being spoiled, rosin would not taste so great!

too busy to reply to this almost 10k char limit post ;p I'll be more OT, if I mention what I've heard from the 'waxheads' (contemporary version of Dead heads, lol) about rosin temps/presses, etc in one of the other recent conc threads. Flower doesn't last long-enough? YOu think using a nail with ice wax is going to last much longer? I don't think so. If you want very long lasting effects, oral is the way to go. Can you with any nail/vaping device consume 200mg+ cannabinoids in <1hr? CasaLuna has a 1500mg thc chocolate bar of ~4oz. Eat that (better try 1 of the 10 sections 1st) and see if that doesn't knock you into sleep...for a long, long time. Only problem with candy bars I found is the dreaded next-day 'hangover' problem. Less of a problem with the Blue Dream strain, DayDreamers choc bars, but others are really bad with the next-day hangover.

Man o' man, 1% of vaper's can afford a near unicorn $300 sapphire dish, that requires a big hunking D-nail setup that runs in the hundreds b4 you can even use that dish that is prone to breaking---(u sure u are not an $1000 ip7+ user?), if not handled with kit gloves.

"The best quality bubble hash should never be grated into powder" All of Bubblemans & Matt Rize's full-melt looks like it has been micro-planed, broken/degraded resin glands...at least that is what it appears to my poor eyesight. Same could be said of Cuban Growers ice wax, Strawberry Kush. Bezzle /Trichome Extracts ice wax...the list goes on.

 

[verdampersweats]

Lol man I am a professional scientist/academic so info is my livelihood

Generally, the temp on the dial being used on an e-nail can vary by 100-200f higher than the actual temp on the dish surface. Basically, we operate an e-nail at the higher end of temps we'd vape flowers with. For example, I tend to operate my SiC halo at 500-520f. The actual dish temp will be more like 420-450f. Of course this temp is reduced when you apply the oil to the surface until the heater coil compensates. Other materials such as Sapphire and Quartz have greatly different thermal properties and so the difference between the temp on the dial and the temp at the surface will vary accordingly (also with different designs/form factors obviously).

Thanks btw i have ocd it came on after a stressful event so i have impeccable standards too. And i dislike heat i had a suspicion full melt would be the shizzle. So then it would be the pinnacle to use prime buds and make some bubble and do it on a sapphire nail around 450f. Just looking and remembering to us over here that 446F is the magic number for the combustion i would like to stay below that but honestly not until medical comes at least will i know the benefits.

In time hopefully i get to see what you talk about by long lasting because to me right now the pinnacle i have is that grinder stuff mentioned and you know when you have a really low tolerance someone sneaking that into a bowl can make my knees go all wibbly. But it does not last long either after using it for a bit. The only damm thing i dislike about this whole thing now then is i bet sapphire nails cost a lot of money and i bet you need to grow a fair bit to get 5-6 star full melt? I like to smoke a lot and do it all day because i am an ex smoker.

Also the grated stuff honestly i wouldnt give a shit out and about when you do not want it to last all day would be perfect to use the lower grades of 2-3 star bubble on my Mighty with dosing caps. Damm i gotta take notes and put a nail on my wishlist eventually.

 

[herbivore21]

^And how is everyone testing the temp to show 420-450F, which is too high for my health concerns. Back in 2000, I bought a Vrip stem, made my own water pipe from mayonnaise jar, filled with only ice, Steinel heat gun with digital temp readout. I used a bi-metalic probe from a multimeter, prob asbestos woven fabric covered wire. Was able to squeeze the wire flat between the Vrip stem & metal nozzle reducer I put on the heat gun. Probe was in the airflow, in the bud I had put into the stem/bowl, not touching the glass sides of the bowl/stem. That was a fairly good approximation of heat, and no way I would go to 450, even 420 was a bit high for my tastes, YMMV


too busy to reply to this almost 10k char limit post ;p I'll be more OT, if I mention what I've heard from the 'waxheads' (contemporary version of Dead heads, lol) about rosin temps/presses, etc in one of the other recent conc threads. Flower doesn't last long-enough? YOu think using a nail with ice wax is going to last much longer? I don't think so. If you want very long lasting effects, oral is the way to go. Can you with any nail/vaping device consume 200mg+ cannabinoids in <1hr? CasaLuna has a 1500mg thc chocolate bar of ~4oz. Eat that (better try 1 of the 10 sections 1st) and see if that doesn't knock you into sleep...for a long, long time. Only problem with candy bars I found is the dreaded next-day 'hangover' problem. Less of a problem with the Blue Dream strain, DayDreamers choc bars, but others are really bad with the next-day hangover.

Man o' man, 1% of vaper's can afford a near unicorn $300 sapphire dish, that requires a big hunking D-nail setup that runs in the hundreds b4 you can even use that dish that is prone to breaking---(u sure u are not an $1000 ip7+ user?), if not handled with kit gloves.

"The best quality bubble hash should never be grated into powder" All of Bubblemans & Matt Rize's full-melt looks like it has been micro-planed, broken/degraded resin glands...at least that is what it appears to my poor eyesight. Same could be said of Cuban Growers ice wax, Strawberry Kush. Bezzle /Trichome Extracts ice wax...the list goes on.

I'm not confident that I'll have time to convince you on why your concerns about dabbing temps are problematic man. Honestly and without any negativity towards you, I simply am not prepared to spend the energy on that one. I trust that you will agree I have given you a vast number of words in responses today already!

Bubbleman actually has long commented that he prefers not to microplane if he can possibly avoid it. With this said, those great extract artist's material could be wonderful still even if it is microplaned (which using conventional drying methods is an easier way to process very large collections - but folks don't do that with their own headstash IME). I've watched all of his videos for many years now and heard him say this more than once!

Of course, good resin is good resin and the terp loss I describe from breaching the glands is not necessarily complete (this depends on factors like how it is stored, how quickly it is used etc), nor is it ever instant in real-world scenarios! However, those of us who process hash IME all observe that without microplaning, full melt tastes better than if we had microplaned the same material. That is the best apples and apples comparison you can get.

Exposing more surface area of the most volatile, low-boiling cannabis compounds (found in the resin gland) to oxygen and heat will reliably cause more decomposition/degradation than if you haven't. We would expect differences between microplaned and whole heads in equal measure. It isn't a revelation to say what I've said by any stretch!

I am very curious as I mentioned in my other response to you moments ago: do you process extracts yourself and if so which methods have you used?

Many FC people have sapphire dishes man, and the d-nail one is the cheapest sapphire dish, believe it or not, check out the Liger!

Also I don't think that dabbing full melt bubble hash (not ice wax, my meds aren't waxy - ice wax refers to both the processing method - iced water - and the waxy consistency of the product ) lasts longer for my insomnia treatment purposes than flowers. I assure you sir, I know it! You might not be surprised to hear that it is important to me to understand what works best for my medical needs (btw, edibles give me overwhelming anxiety/counterproductive side effects which rule them out for my needs. This is not unusual either, edibles are often not well tolerated by patients, some speculate that this is a property of delta-11 metabolites)!

Vaping a large amount of flowers tends (honestly I'd vape an 8th in one night to get to sleep often - nighttime meds are still the bulk of my usage) to help me get to sleep, but I reliably woke up in the next 2-3 hours.

A large dab or two moderate dabs (approximately a total of .15g or so) of full melt bubble sends me to sleep for 5-8 hours reliably. We must consider that I do not have a sky-high tolerance like most people who dab (and that is no criticism, they are welcome to do so ). I never consume more than 2g of various solventless concentrates in a week. That's an average of .3g or less of oil per day being consumed. I also dose minimally during the day as my daytime medical needs do not require so much.

I'll have to return later to respond to you btw @rodders83 Don't think I've forgotten you brother, just need a break from typing lol. Damn, I guess I will return to address the problem with concerns about purported 'cannabis combustion temps' where dabbing concentrates is concerned.

 

[Kozzmozz]

Temperature aside, and besides the possible toxins in the actual vapour,
what happens to the resin that builds up on your vape and your glass?
And more importantly what does it do to our lungs? And would be holiding in the vapour longer be worse?

 

[Hippie Dickie]

what happens to the resin that builds up on your vape and your glass?

anecdote: my vape and glassware never have a resin buildup - by design. i get a lot of satisfaction from having a pure air path vaporizer.

That's an average of .3g or less of oil per day being consumed.

how much oil can you extract/squish from an oz of herb?

 

[Baron23]

always assumed the precipitate was salt...D'oh.

Probably is.

 

[herbivore21]

anecdote: my vape and glassware never have a resin buildup - by design. i get a lot of satisfaction from having a pure air path vaporizer.



how much oil can you extract/squish from an oz of herb?

From an oz of flower (it really depends on the resin production of course, I'm sure you'd have noticed major variation in the quantity of resin on different flowers over the years too ), I would expect 15-25% return depending on the material (4-7g or so). Basically, you should expect the same sorts of returns as with solvents (solvents will get more if you over-wash the flowers of course).

 

[MoltenTiger]

Does anyone here know much about fluid dynamics? Plumage specifically, I just vaped a couple of chambers at differing temperatures, 210℃ then 180℃, and noticed quite a difference in the exhaled clouds.

The higher temp cloud strung together, much like smoke would. The lower temp created a finer mist, it formed a hazy cloud and didn't form smoke-like strings once in the air.

This could potentially be indicative of differing cloud constituents, and perhaps the stringier gas is 'stickier' and could be more prone to leaving residue.
It would make some sense that the lower temp offers a less complex cloud, whilst the 210℃ is beginning to introduce some pyrolysis.

It's likely there'd be parts of either cloud that would be considered undesirable, and probable that there'd be more in the higher temp clouds simply due to the more complex make-up.
But it also seems likely that the vapour has slightly different properties too.

 

[EverythingsHazy]

Benzene is introduced into the vapor at 392F. If you want to avoid that, which i've heard is one of vapor's most "toxic" offenders, just stay below that temperature.

Source? hear a lot about this "stay under 390F for benzene avoidance" but little definitive proof. I'd love to know how valid those claims are.

 

[MoltenTiger]

Source? hear a lot about this "stay under 390F for benzene avoidance" but little definitive proof. I'd love to know how valid those claims are.

I don't have a ready to go link unfortunately, but I have read at least one reputable scientific article where benzene was identified from vapour at 200 deg c (390F)

It was only beginning at that temperature so not sure what the concentration was, but it has definitely been isolated from a 200 deg c vapour source

(It was either a volcano or a ceramic rod based vape... Perhaps it didn't specify)

Edit: I happened to have an article saved that describes benzene occurring from temps of 200 deg c

http://www.cannabis-med.org/data/pdf/2001-03-04-7.pdf

"
benzene and other car- cinogenic vapors did not appear until 200°C (392°F), and cannabis combus- tion occurred around 230°C (446°F) (Gieringer 2001).

"

 

[Baron23]

Source? hear a lot about this "stay under 390F for benzene avoidance" but little definitive proof. I'd love to know how valid those claims are.

I don't have a ready to go link unfortunately, but I have read at least one reputable scientific article where benzene was identified from vapour at 200 deg c (390F)

It was only beginning at that temperature so not sure what the concentration was, but it has definitely been isolated from a 200 deg c vapour source

(It was either a volcano or a ceramic rod based vape... Perhaps it didn't specify)

Edit: I happened to have an article saved that describes benzene occurring from temps of 200 deg c

http://www.cannabis-med.org/data/pdf/2001-03-04-7.pdf

"
benzene and other car- cinogenic vapors did not appear until 200°C (392°F), and cannabis combus- tion occurred around 230°C (446°F) (Gieringer 2001).

"

Yes, pure samples of Benzene when heated in a vacuum have a boiling point of 392 F or so.

But, we don't vape pure isolates of any of the products in MJ and what products we do extract are from a complex plant structure so the prevailing thought is that this smears out the boiling point into a range at which you may see this product.

I also note that in the tables on this subject that I have seen, the % of benzene is always a question mark. Not sure why but I presume that if it was released in any significant qty that it would be detected and listed, no?

 

[EverythingsHazy]

Yes, pure samples of Benzene when heated in a vacuum have a boiling point of 392 F or so.

The thing is, chemicals begin to evaporate before they reach their boiling temperatures. If benzene is present in fresh bud, then we are getting it before 390F. If it is being synthesized at 390F there should be some definitive proof of that somewhere.


Seriously.... how hard is it for ONE of the many many scientific stoners to set aside a few grams of bud, and vaporize each load at 5 degree increments, recording the chemical profile of the vapor for each, and then take a few loads, and vaporize them at each of those temps while testing the resulting vapor for each bag filled? In legal states, it shouldn't be that difficult, at all. If someone can do that, we'll finally start to have some useful data to work with. From what I've seen so far, almost all of these vaguely written, shady studies, put out by either anti-cannabis or pro-cannabis organizations, are "meh" at best, and do not satisfy my quest for the facts.