Tornado by Vestratto

[RedZep]

If you go back and refresh your memory of the past pages of this thread, you will find that to not be the case.

If you are getting uneven extraction with pretty much any half decent vaporizer, you're doing something wrong. Anvil and Tornado are both capable of evenly extracting their biggest possible loads, it's all about how you use them. I do find the Tornado to be more forgiving, making it easier to achieve that result.

I agree with all of that. Thanks

 

[PrematureEvaporation]

The only thing I ever noticed with the anvil AVB wise was a very slight difference in colour from the top of the bowl to the bottom. The bottom would always be a little darker on both regular and XL bowls. John actually wrote about this gradient in the early days after noticing it himself. I notice the Dani fusion also has a similar gradient. It’s not noteworthy in extraction terms whatsoever but an interesting quirk of the way these devices supply heat to the load

Interested if the Tornado shows similar behaviour and looking forward to testing myself

 

[eyevape]

The only thing I ever noticed with the anvil AVB wise was a very slight difference in colour from the top of the bowl to the bottom. The bottom would always be a little darker on both regular and XL bowls. John actually wrote about this gradient in the early days after noticing it himself. I notice the Dani fusion also has a similar gradient. It’s not noteworthy in extraction terms whatsoever but an interesting quirk of the way these devices supply heat to the load

Interested if the Tornado shows similar behaviour and looking forward to testing myself

I‘d say the Tornado roast is more even top to bottom wise. There’s a slight gradient from the side wall to the center though. But it’s the same as you mentioned with the Anvil, no issue extraction wise.

If I hit my Anvil XL bowl slow enough, there’s no gradient. I found this also to be true for other devices. But I‘m greedy, so I don’t witness much gradient free AVB

I get that. But it also means no one is actually testing how this thing functions with a full bowl. So I have no idea if it performs well when full. I guess I'll have to wait until I get one myself.

I do fill up my Tornado bowls. This works as fine as half filled bowls. I also did all kinds of nugs, no problems whatsoever.

 

[PrematureEvaporation]

There’s a slight gradient from the side wall to the center though.

I’ve actually noticed this on a few vids but didn’t know if it was a quirk of the device or individual heating technique that still needed developing. That’s interesting though if the gradient has changed from top to bottom to now being outside to inside. Says to me that the way the heat is being applied to the load is different on this one to the anvil.

I never knew that with the XL bowl! I’m also a greedy person and I’ve never been one to take it slow with the anvil in general I wonder if you can take that same approach to the tornado and make it more even with a slower draw?

 

[eyevape]

I wonder if you can take that same approach to the tornado and make it more even with a slower draw?

I don’t think so. While the top bottom gradient is related to the draw style, the ring gradient comes from heating. The Anvil stores most of its heat underneath the bowl, whereas the Tornado‘s heat is stored mostly around the herb chamber.

This is according to my understanding. If anyone have a better insight, I‘d love to know.

 

[RedZep]

The only thing I ever noticed with the anvil AVB wise was a very slight difference in colour from the top of the bowl to the bottom. The bottom would always be a little darker on both regular and XL bowls. John actually wrote about this gradient in the early days after noticing it himself. I notice the Dani fusion also has a similar gradient. It’s not noteworthy in extraction terms whatsoever but an interesting quirk of the way these devices supply heat to the load

Interested if the Tornado shows similar behaviour and looking forward to testing myself

This was my experience. The half bowl always seemed to have more roast, even if torch was aimed a little higher. I always assumed the battery didn't quite have enough thermal capacity to deep roast larger bowls. I'm open to admitting that assumption was incorrect if people were getting different results.

The Tornado seems like it should Have more than enough heat capacity.

 

[PrematureEvaporation]

@eyevape

That makes sense actually, most of the thermal mass was in the battery on the anvil which then replenished the heat in the walls. It was clever but I found the thermal lag could sometimes work against you. I suspect the way the tornado distributes its mass is a lot better in this respect. More direct but also with its own quirks to learn

@RedZep

Yeah the extra mass would surely help. I noticed from upgrading a duracore to the thermocore that the extra mass there both helped flavour and the gradient. It does seem the tornado is more forgiving which I hope also translates to it not being so fussy about your torch behaving the exact same way each heatup. Got caught out way too many times by a slightly changed flame size as fuel supply dwindled

 

[Electrofever]

Travelling from France to visit my sister in Florida and I must say, what a welcomeKnowing I was visiting here soon, I had a Tornado sent there, and I have tried it yesterday for the first time. Combusted first round with a triple torch (too much power), combusted a second time with a small aiomai, but got an amazing hit on third attempt, heating near the middle of the bowl. I must say I am really impressed by this Tornado, even roast and great extraction, and that with quite a small lighter

 

[RedZep]

@eyevape

That makes sense actually, most of the thermal mass was in the battery on the anvil which then replenished the heat in the walls. It was clever but I found the thermal lag could sometimes work against you. I suspect the way the tornado distributes its mass is a lot better in this respect. More direct but also with its own quirks to learn

@RedZep

Yeah the extra mass would surely help. I noticed from upgrading a duracore to the thermocore that the extra mass there both helped flavour and the gradient. It does seem the tornado is more forgiving which I hope also translates to it not being so fussy about your torch behaving the exact same way each heatup. Got caught out way too many times by a slightly changed flame size as fuel supply dwindled

We see a similar thing happen with the Tempest. Some people get very uneven extraction with a full bowl. Because these vapes are not heating up while in use I guess it's possible to draw too fast, depleting the battery/balls but moving the air too fast to fully extract.

I never thought to adjust my technique with the Anvil as I saw it as a conduction device but I think that was a mistake.

 

[eyevape]

That makes sense actually, most of the thermal mass was in the battery on the anvil which then replenished the heat in the walls. It was clever but I found the thermal lag could sometimes work against you. I suspect the way the tornado distributes its mass is a lot better in this respect. More direct but also with its own quirks to learn

Yes, the Tornado’s heat distribution is a whole different thing than with the Anvil. It’s a whole different build actually, which also reflects in this: Despite the Tornado has more thermal mass, it weighs about the same as the Anvil, only about 2g more

 

[hotmeals]

For me the top to bottom gradient is optimizable to virtually nothing with technique, and I don't get a gradient from the walls in with the Tornado. The Anvil stores only "extra" heat in the thermal battery if you torch the oven, but if you torch the battery directly there may be more heat there than in the oven. I think the oven has more mass than the battery even on the original Anvil.

 

[PrematureEvaporation]

The Anvil stores only "extra" heat in the thermal battery if you torch the oven, but if you torch the battery directly there may be more heat there than in the oven. I think the oven has more mass than the battery even on the original Anvil.

Yeah there’s likely more heat in the battery relative to the oven if you do the “traditional” style of RTL and heat the battery until the click. Thermal mass is probably a bit higher in the oven thinking about it now, you’re right. The notable difference relative to the tornado is that you’re heating a lump of mass which then heats the oven, rather than the oven itself. Though If you blast the oven with a torch, the battery instead functions as you said - something to “catch” the extra heat and then redistribute it as needed. Doing this with a dab torch is also how convection is maximised, as you can really get the heat in fast without combustion worries.

I’ve always found the anvil system fascinating, the way it uses copper to speed up heat transfer, but then makes use of thermal breaks, air gaps and clever mass distribution to ensure the heat flows in just the right way. Obviously this brings the occasional issue I mentioned with the thermal lag working counter productively as it’s not a perfect system. Still though, it’s a fairly unique way to approach a vape design, a thermal “circuit” of sorts

How the tornado works seems much more direct, I feel like it’s taken the lessons of the thermocore and the benefits of its extra mass and used it in a smarter way again. The full length coppercore and redistribution of mass seems to have allowed for similar results to the previous circuit whilst eliminating a decent bit of lag

 

[eyevape]

For me the top to bottom gradient is optimizable to virtually nothing with technique, and I don't get a gradient from the walls in with the Tornado. The Anvil stores only "extra" heat in the thermal battery if you torch the oven, but if you torch the battery directly there may be more heat there than in the oven. I think the oven has more mass than the battery even on the original Anvil.

I heat my devices quite aggressively, this surely makes a stronger wall gradient. I can imagine that this doesn’t happen when heated more gently.

For the Anvil (I own OG and TC) I can’t tell where the most copper is hidden. I heat both straight at the battery in order for the click to be late, controlling the roast strength by flame size.

 

[Smknbud]

Got my custom @ScruffyWoofers copper triple cooling stand today for my Tornado, TA4 and Dani Fusion 2.0. Amazing and worth every penny. The Cannabis Hardware pipe is a bit over priced but it works really well with the Tornado.

 

[Roffa]

I started torching the Tornado along the length of the device instead of staying in one spot middle of the oven. Quite a difference. I think this is the thinking behind the Forge: using so much power that it can heat the entire device evenly in seconds.

 

[RedZep]

Got my custom @ScruffyWoofers copper triple cooling stand today for my Tornado, TA4 and Dani Fusion 2.0. Amazing and worth every penny. The Cannabis Hardware pipe is a bit over priced but it works really well with the Tornado.

I'm not a fan of that pipe. Yet I can't deny the aesthetics of the pipe with the cooling stands and vape selection is top tier. Lovely little collection. Just needs a dedicated Tornado stem now.

 

[PeePhlegm]

Got my custom @ScruffyWoofers copper triple cooling stand today for my Tornado, TA4 and Dani Fusion 2.0.

Hey brother, I have a triple cooling stand that I use one port for my tempest/AC, one port for my anvil TC/TA3 and the last for my Fusion 2.0.

Do you mind trying to fit the Tornado into the Fusion 2.0 port? It would be great if it was interchangeable, even if it's not a perfect fit.

 

[Smknbud]

Hey brother, I have a triple cooling stand that I use one port for my tempest/AC, one port for my anvil TC/TA3 and the last for my Fusion 2.0.

Do you mind trying to fit the Tornado into the Fusion 2.0 port? It would be great if it was interchangeable, even if it's not a perfect fit.

The Tornado actually fits in all three of the ports so you're good to go.

 

[stonedBBer]

I'm not a fan of that pipe. Yet I can't deny the aesthetics of the pipe with the cooling stands and vape selection is top tier. Lovely little collection. Just needs a dedicated Tornado stem now.

I thought it doesn't connect to stems yet properly and only works as advertised on a wpa?

 

[Knewt]

I thought it doesn't connect to stems yet properly and only works as advertised on a wpa?

It will connect just fine with the original Anvil stem.

 

[letter never sent]

I wish I still had my OG Anvil stem since the Tornado fit is too loose on the integrated stem. It works, but removing the bowl with a magnet can pull the entire oven off the stem in my experience. Hoping Vestratto will release a Tornado specific stem with effective cooling. I would definitely love to use this thing dry in a more optimized setup.

 

[RedZep]

I wish I still had my OG Anvil stem since the Tornado fit is too loose on the integrated stem. It works, but removing the bowl with a magnet can pull the entire oven off the stem in my experience. Hoping Vestratto will release a Tornado specific stem with effective cooling. I would definitely love to use this thing dry in a more optimized setup.

My memory is not great, but I think John said a Tornado stem is in the works. I wonder if he has tried to engineer more cooling into it, considering the extra large bowl.

Depending on what he comes up with, I might just get the adaptor and put it on the Tempest stem.

 

[Roffa]

My memory is not great, but I think John said a Tornado stem is in the works. I wonder if he has tried to engineer more cooling into it, considering the extra large bowl.

Depending on what he comes up with, I might just get the adaptor and put it on the Tempest stem.

I use the Tornado on the OG Anvil stem: no cooling necessary IMO, but of course, this may be different for you. A dedicated Tornado stem would be great though, and a stem adapter.

 

[Bakin4Life]

I wish I still had my OG Anvil stem since the Tornado fit is too loose on the integrated stem. It works, but removing the bowl with a magnet can pull the entire oven off the stem in my experience.

Assuming a slightly larger o-ring assembly is out of the question...

I found the USA kit was loose on my 3rd party (futo) stem, which was 1mm larger ID than a stock Dyna (wanted wood for decreased heat build-up; needed a larger I.D. stem to accommodate a TRWW intercooler).

What I did was to leave a little resin build up to help keep the USA on the stem. It works enough to stay fixed to the stem, but I can still remove for cleaning, etc., when needed.

I also use a magnet, but I unscrew the oven on the magnet and let it cool separately from the device. Something I adapted a couple of weeks ago, in order to both cycle slightly faster, and assess condition of the load (I'm a RTL guy, but I do a good job avoiding pyrolization, much less combustion).

Being wood, I suppose one could also use a little 'liquid wood' to build up the mounting surface, but I would definitely research its thermal characteristics first, to ensure no chemical reactions / leaching occur from heating the stack. That would've been my 'Plan B', going forward.

 

[RedZep]

I use the Tornado on the OG Anvil stem: no cooling necessary IMO, but of course, this may be different for you. A dedicated Tornado stem would be great though, and a stem adapter.

I found the OG stem to not cool enough for the 0.1g Anvil bowl when I had it. I would presume the Tornado would be more uncomfortable with the increased vapour density from the bowl size. I could be wrong however since users report it being quite smooth.