Tinctures?

[FourTwentyJG]

Hi everyone, i've been thinking about maybe making myself a tincture soon, i'm kinda just hearing of these and thought it'd be a really cool thing to try. I tried researching some of this on my own but the majority of threads i've seen include using crockpots and etc. to heat the mixture, and i'm kinda just looking for a no heat method (I heard you could just put it in a mason jar and let it sit for a while?). Also, i'm not really sure if i should use alcohol or glycerin as a method of extraction. If someone could post a recipe or a link to a recipe for a no heat tincture it'd be great. I have like a quarter of abv and was planning on using that. Thanks in advance guys!

 

[vaporonly]

I'd do everclear and just add abv to mason jar and fill with everclear then let it sit in a dark stable temp place for 21 days, shaking every couple, then strain. then evap off some of the everclear so it gets more concentrated and doesn't burn as much

pretty simple, i'm sure there are guides out there, look for green dragon

 

[FourTwentyJG]

Thanks a lot man, though i think i've decided on trying to make a glycerin tincture for two reasons. One being that i heard you can use glycerin sublingually (Correct me if i'm wrong, but i don't think you can do that with green dragon?), and the other being that i'm not legal drinking age, which would make going out to get some alcohol more of a pain in the ass then its worth. I'll do some research but i'd assume it'd be the same basic process as the green dragon though, right?

 

[Vitolo]

Vito's Glycerin Tincture

• 5 pounds Kosher Vegetable Glycerin
• 4 Ounces premium Medical grade Bud (completely dried)

Grind the bud totally... I use a blender. if the bud is dried correctly it will all pulverize.
Place the ground bud in a 1 gallon mason jar.
I use http://www.goodmans.net/i/6302/bormioli-rocco-149250m02321991-fido-square-jar-101-5-oz.htm
Cover with Glycerin.
Set jar in a crockpot that allows the fluid in the jar to be covered.
Crockpot set to low.
Check water level multiple times daily because of the relatively small amount of water in crockpot due to displacement.
You should check once in the night too so it doesn't go for an entire 8 hours unchecked.
Every day shake the jar vigorously for a few minutes.
Do this for 3 or 4 weeks. Others may argue about time.... this is MY recipe, and this is how I do it.
After it is done, I use an official "Jelly Bag"... on a tripod that comes with it.

I balance the rods high (on a large pot's lip for example), so I can have that bag suspended over a receptacle, like a clean jar.
I pour the mixture in the jelly bags, and leave it to filter for a few hours, then I come back and squeeze it out tightly.
The final step is omitted by some people. There are still particles in the now golden/reddish colored tincture
Final step:
Using large funnel, fold a coffee filter, and place funnel over another clean receptacle.
Pour that honey-like liquid into the filter.
Check this daily, and when it is empty refill it.
If filter gets dirty, place a new one, and wring out the old one into it along with the new stuff you will put through it.
This coffee filter stage , as I said is omitted by those that will only be eating the tincture, and not ever placing it in an e-cig... or those wanting purity. I like mine clean..... like honey.
The final filtration could take a couple of weeks.
HINT:
I squeeze out each used coffee filter by rolling the filter into a wad, and throwing it into a garlic press.

 

[NorVape]

Fantastic! I've been looking hard for a tincture recipe. Thank you @Vitolo !

When taken under the tongue, how long till it kicks in?

 

[Vitolo]

For me I require more than I can hold under the tongue.
It takes me two droppers full.
If I can hold it in mouth it takes about a minute or two to start to feel it.
Swallowed it takes about 5 minutes.
Many that use my tincture swear that they can put 2 drops under tongue and they can feel it in 30 seconds.
It could be that this is true.. I feel that it may just be power of suggestion, and the exotic flavor that makes them feel the effect so fast.
Who is to say.
It takes me a minute or two to feel the euphoric effects.

 

[Breathemetal]

Any photos of the finished product?

 

[Vitolo]

Indica predominant tincture on the right (gold)
Sativa tincture on the left (red)
I can not explain why the sativa tinctures come out reddish in color, but it happens often depending on the strain.

The Jar is the golden Sativa Tincture . It looks a deeper honey color when there is a bulk of it, but this is the same tincture in the dropper above.

 

[Breathemetal]

How many doses are in that jar?

 

[Vitolo]

There are depending on tolerance, 25 to 50 doses in each ounce bottle as seen in the first picture.
There are 32 ounces in the Jar
That would make 800 to 1600 doses.
I suppose you could round it out to 1000 average doses.
Dispensaries "cut" deep colored tinctures like this heavily with pure vegetable glycerin, and then sell it at
50 dollars for an ounce bottle.... with merely an off-white/eggshell tint to the stuff.
I try my best to not allow profiteering among low-income patients here in my area.
Vapor Trail's Mission Statement says it all!

 

[Steele Concept]

Nice suggestions Vito! If you'd ever wanna move to the dark side (the heat side that is) I have 2 tutorials up on my site www.greendiet.com

1. The 1/8th over the stove with ethanol, takes 20 minute makes 1-2 oz of tincture

2. Magical butter automatic method, uses 1 oz of meds and makes around 500 doses.

Take er easy man and good luck!

 

[killick]

@Steele Concept Vito's recipe uses weeks of heat, which I can't try til I have a shop set up. I'm looking forward to it tho! Imagine having 800 to 1600 doses on hand for emergencies! looking for ways to maximize storage of excess product, and this method will certainly have some space on the shelf.

 

[Vitolo]

I also make "whole" tinctures.
These employ Everclear, and the heat portion of that process is during reduction....
as I reduce it's volume when done by 80% (leaving 20% of original volume... already heat activated)

 

[killick]

@Vitolo I've read on a few recipes where there is also a freezing component for oil and glycerin tinctures. I didn't see this step in your recipe. Is there any special reason for using (or avoiding) freezing as part of the process? I've not yet tried it myself, just looking for a reason one way or the other.

Thanks!

 

[Vitolo]

Like a suburban white kid that learns to "rap" and talk jive due to living in an "ethnic" ghetto neighborhood...
Glycerin absorbs THC and Cannabinoids due to heat, time, and proximity.
Alcohol
When using a solvent like Everclear (Ethanol) you are not catching THC by proximity, but rather you are stripping the goods chemically. Ethanol captures the Clorophylls also.. that is why my whole tincture is black (very dark green). Chlorophyll is bitter. Freezing BOTH the Everclear and the weed... and then grinding it and shaking it quickly strips the THC without getting all the clorophyll.
At the same time we potentially leave behind some higher end cannabinoids, like CBDs and CBNs.
I do not freeze anything ever.
Why waste time trying to keep the clorophyll out of a tincture that is going to have residual alcohol?
If the Tincture was made with Everclear, and is kept in solution, it is going to be bitter regardless of the absence of dark green. I do not try to remove the clorophyll because of the other cannabinoids that could fall behind as well. For this reason I call the tincture "whole tincture".... it has it all... all of the bud's constituents.
Glycerin
When making Glycerin Tincture, The heat I use is low, and prolonged.
There is no reason for me to freeze the buds prior to the process.. it is all ground into a fine dust so that the kief and other floral material are indistinguishable.
Glycerin can not absorb Clorophylls even with time and heat and proximity....
...It would be like the ghetto dwelling, suburban white kid that has rythm and can rap... becoming a different ethnic variant due to proximity... it can not be done, therefore there would be no benefit to freezing herb that will be used with glycerin.

When is freezing weed good for a process?:
If you are going to use a distiller.... and introduce a water component to your Everclear tincture...... by removing ALL alcohol.. and creating "Rick Simpson Oil" using the Everclear method rather than the Naptha method... one would want to try to leave out the Clorophyll then, as the drops would be more tasteless without the clorophyll. Doctors say that there are anticarcinogenic properties to clorophyll.
My advice to patients is: "bitterness be damned.... shut the fuck up and take your medicine!"

 

[killick]

The last time I got the idea for freezing (as part of processing) was watching this video:

which shows 4 different ways to make 'pharmacy-grade cannabis oil' by 'BadKittySmiles', who also has a bunch of great medible recipes online.

Before this video I read it somewhere else, and there it had a short explanation about 'ensuring the oil had access to all manner of compounds only available at a variety of temperatures' (quoted comments are mine, based on the small part I remembered, from an article I only skimmed). So thats where I'm coming from. Plus I have an interest in finding a way to manage excess herb I may have (I'm only allowed to have so much in possession each month, so on occasion I have a requirement to 'stockpile' in some form) so thats where my brain is going with this line of thought. So what I'm trying to ascertain, now that I have my core process down, is how to tweak it to get maximum product into minimal amount of carrier.

I just picked up 2 litres of MCT oil, and picked up some non-GMO soy lecithin (which I also noticed you don't use?) and am hoping to get 80 or so grams of a nice high THC Indica infused over the next few days. Maybe a bit more... I just wanna make sure I'm not wasting any.

Thanks again for taking the time to respond to these beginner questions. It's appreciated!

 

[Steele Concept]

Vito said it right, alcohol - specifically ethanol is great for stripping out all the goodies in short time. This is why I only do ethanol tinctures as compared to glycerin. For folks who want to complain over "bad taste" in 1-2 mL, man up lol. You are getting damn near all the goodies in that 1-2 mL and it is a tiny amount anyway... A typical alcohol shot is 45 mL. The 1/8th of meds and 2 oz of ethanol on the stove is a great way to start to see if you like it.

http://www.greendiet.com/the-ultimate-medical-cannabis-tincture-pictorial-bringing-tincture-back/

Otherwise buy a MB2 or crockpot and do the dang thang a zip or more at a time bruh.

 

[killick]

Thanks @Steele Concept. I've used your recipe a few times, but not recently due to the gas stove top. I'm trying to build up my collection to be a few different combinations of materials, hence this version being MCT oil. I have some regular pharm grade glycerin here as well, but only for topicals so far. I've also tried concentrates a couple of times, but really need a vac chamber to go much further down that route.

 

[Vitolo]

..... man up lol. You are getting damn near all the goodies in that 1-2 mL and it is a tiny amount anyway.

I never used to like Glycerin Tincture, and I refused for years in the beginning to make Glycerin Tincture.

all the goodies

Yes... I would feel the full effects, and the glycerin only hauled in the THC happy stuff!.. don't get me wrong.. I like being happy, and feeling euphoric.... but I am fucked up physically and I need help.
SO.. I referred in my younger days to Glycerin Tincture as "Sissy Tincture". (I was not as open minded)
When the patients that were being sent to talk with me about alternatives became more diverse, I found patients that were in the work force... functioning in a job. These folks could not afford to take the dark stuff. It was too sedative in it's effect. They deserved proper Glycerin tinctures.
After all... feeling euphoric during your day can help you cope with some discomfort by making you happy.
I changed the name from "Sissy Tincture" to "Party Girl Tincture".
Wow.... names... titles.....
I was younger and needed names for things.
I just call it sweet tincture now.

If you want full effects... sand behind your eyelids fast, full spectrum cannabinoid whallop, whole tincture is your medicine.
If you want to be in a pleasant mood, and feel high, sweet tincture is for you.

There is room for both types of tincture in my world now.

NEXT.....
I have a 3rd tincture:
High CBD (ABV) tincture.
It is a whole tincture made from ABV...
8 pounds of ABV to 2 Liters of Everclear are the starting ingredients.
It winds up as 7 ounces (7 bottles like those in the post I made with the glycerin) of a high CBD tincture that is so dense that the inner walls of the bottle
form clear crystals of amazing potency... at the end of the process description, I will describe the incident in which I first found these crystals.
People in the community give me their ABV, in large amounts for some patients! Growers bring it also.
I grind it into flour and make ABV muffins, that each boast 6 grams of ABV in them... too much to go out in public.... so I recommend it as a nighttime medication for bedtime!
I build up a large amount and can't store it all, so I wait until this one container is full.
It holds 8 pounds. That fills up 4 one Gallon plastic Milk Jugs (100% cleaned and dried please)
I fill the 4 jugs with the ABV.
I then pour about a liter and a third of Everclear into one of my 4 ABV filled jugs.
I am saving about a 2/3 liter of Everclear to rinse through each of the jugs when I pour off the liquid.
I shake the jug around... and leave it a few hours.... then I do the following:
I set the next ABV filled jug on the counter.
I place a large funnel in it.
I turn the Everclear/ABV bottle upside down into the funnel of the dry ABV jug..... I am careful to find a corner spot to prop the top container up so it can drain by itself.
I then take a razor blade, and cut away the bottom of the upside down container....this allows better drainage, and it makes the top container into a funnel of sorts. No worry about the top jug's ABV pouring out with the alcohol.. it will wedge itself in place and help filter.
I let this drainage go on for a few hours, then I pour a little of my reserved leftover clean Everclear through my bottomless plastic jug to rinse the ABV.. leaving that for another hour to drip and drain.
I repeat this two more times with the remaining two jugs.
The last "drain" being the thickest.. O saved the most clean everclear for THAT rinse.
Now to reduce it.
I put it all (it wont be two liters, you do lose some..) into a vessel that you will submerge in a double boiler, and reduce it down to 25% of original volume.
Pour while still warm into bottles.
The stuff is narcotically potent!
Sedative.
Pain relieveing..
My discovery that I told you I would share....
The first time I did this procedure, I picked up a bottle and saw
what looked like dark clumps on the side of the bottle. But wait.. the clorophylls were barely present.. this weed was all vaped!
I poured out the Tincture into a new clean bottle so I good study these clumps.
I went in with a q-tip and wiped off the inner wall, and when I brought the q-tip out what I saw was...
The clumps were not dark, they were needle-like clear crystals that only looked dark until the dark ABV tincture was absorbed into the q-tip's cotton. I collected the crystals until I had a good sized little pile.
I got a few between by thumb and fingertip... and squished, and I felt them crunch like glass, and when I opened my fingers I saw yellowish powder I touched my finger to a drop of water, and held the fingers together and found the powder got very tacky.
I got a few more crystals and place a wad of them between my front teeth, and my teeth were surprisingly well glued together afterwards for so small an amount of the crystalline substance.
My final test was to collect a small scoop of the collected crystals, and get them into a capsule for ingestion in the morning when I am most susceptible to feeling change.
I woke at 4 to pee and ate my capsule and returned to bed.
When I woke at 6, I had a fairly useless morning, until the fog lifted.
The Tincture works the same way as the crystals, only it is far from tasteless (very bitter)
I was not about to try to harvest crystals, and left well enough alone.
I make a couple of batches a year of this ABV stuff, that I call High CBD Tincture.

 

[Puffers]

Thanks @Steele Concept. I've used your recipe a few times, but not recently due to the gas stove top. I'm trying to build up my collection to be a few different combinations of materials, hence this version being MCT oil. I have some regular pharm grade glycerin here as well, but only for topicals so far. I've also tried concentrates a couple of times, but really need a vac chamber to go much further down that route.

The theory behind freezing a MCT/coco oil extraction is that it allows the trichome heads/glandular material holding the psychoactive oils to "crack" and breakdown into the oil thus increasing the bioavailability. I believe most of this is anecdotal through people's experience and experimentation, as far as I know it has not been proved through lab testing and what not.

I normally put my coco oils through a freeze process, mostly because I can and I am not worried about the extra time involved. I have tested my extractions as they progress through the process of heating and freezing, but I cant deinitively say whether or not it helps for ME. I figure it sure as hell can't hurt though

Of course Uncle Vito is spot on with his advice concerning temperatures, ethanol and chlorophyll. I would only add that a solvents efficiency at absorbing product has correlation to its temperature. So a very very cold ethanol may need washes that 3x-5x as long then if they were done at room temp.

PS. I don't personally think a vac is necessary for small oil runs 1/2oz yield or less but that's just like my opinion man and may depend on many different factors temps, climate, humidity, size of pan, etc but that's a topic for different thread.

 

[killick]

Thanks @Puffers - very helpful post! I'm learning a lot in the forums! So freezing obviously won't hurt anything, but *may* have a positive effect, so if you have the time then go right ahead. Great

Now for the vac part - the more I think about ISO the more I want to make sure I purge correctly, and thoroughly. I lucked out on the first batch or two in that I kinda accidentally purged during evap (evaped in a hot water bath) which worked well, at least it seemed to. I'll be doing this quite frequently tho - likely 80/month every couple of months, so might as well get things stacked for success in advance. I was also thinking about building a vac chamber just to try it out. That might be my next project...

 

[Vitolo]

A vacuum chamber will remove gases that are liquid under pressure, by creating negative pressure, and forcing them into a gaseous state again, and pulling it out.
Alcohol is not a gas, and will not respond to a vacuum the same way.
Poured out and left to evaporate, all alcohol and residues will leave your mixture in a short time, through simple evaporation.
gas-vacuum purge (or timely cautious heat purge)
liquid-evaporative purge

 

[killick]

So you are saying that for alcohol washes a vacuum is never required? That does make sense. I was thinking that the heat would decrease the surface tension and the vacuum would assist in in removing impurities.

I'm still trying to decide whether to try BHO extractions, or continue with ISO and/or EC. I like the higher alcohol in ISO, but EC can also be used for strong tinctures.

Now that I have a membership to a dispensary I'm looking forward to seeing what a finished product is supposed to look/taste/act like - forums and videos are great, just not the entire picture. Thats one of the worst things about doing all these things in the dark - it's sometimes tricky to tell what success actually looks/tastes like.

My last ISO run has been air-drying for the past 12 days or so. I broke a chuck of the dark stuff off, mixed it with some of the thick amber stuff, and dropped it on a hot pen to see what it smelled like - very nice! So lets taste it... very smooth! This batch is way nicer than the last batch, although that one got better as it aged, so thats a new step to incorporate, too. Another redeeming quality is that I now have a better idea of how long to hold the heater button so as not to scorch everything...

Now the batch that is currently evaping is looking a bit more brown than I expected. It's also still a bit sticky around the edges, which is funny since the middle was dry a couple of days ago. This batch might be a great candidate for winterization, which will be another new step.

 

[Puffers]

So you are saying that for alcohol washes a vacuum is never required? That does make sense. I was thinking that the heat would decrease the surface tension and the vacuum would assist in in removing impurities.

I'm still trying to decide whether to try BHO extractions, or continue with ISO and/or EC. I like the higher alcohol in ISO, but EC can also be used for strong tinctures.

Now that I have a membership to a dispensary I'm looking forward to seeing what a finished product is supposed to look/taste/act like - forums and videos are great, just not the entire picture. Thats one of the worst things about doing all these things in the dark - it's sometimes tricky to tell what success actually looks/tastes like.

My last ISO run has been air-drying for the past 12 days or so. I broke a chuck of the dark stuff off, mixed it with some of the thick amber stuff, and dropped it on a hot pen to see what it smelled like - very nice! So lets taste it... very smooth! This batch is way nicer than the last batch, although that one got better as it aged, so thats a new step to incorporate, too. Another redeeming quality is that I now have a better idea of how long to hold the heater button so as not to scorch everything...

Now the batch that is currently evaping is looking a bit more brown than I expected. It's also still a bit sticky around the edges, which is funny since the middle was dry a couple of days ago. This batch might be a great candidate for winterization, which will be another new step.

A vac doesn't really affect surface tension. This is why a lot of guys doing larger BHO runs use heat while under vac. I have also seen more commercial/lab grade setups where they use ultrasonic cavitation (sometimes with vac) to break the surface tension and aid in purging. In HVAC applications they do whats called a triple evac where the system is pressurized with nitrogen to break the deep vac and help remove additional moisture possibly trapped under oil in the compressor.

I would do ever clear myself if all the same. It's just more versatile then ISO. Being able to used for a tincture, edibles, and infusions into other solvents. It also is a less aggressive solvent then ISO so some find it easier to get more consistent results. It's food grade from the start, there's something to be said for that particularly when we sometimes use impromptu materials and equipment.

Speaking of equipment I know many of my fellow VAS & GAS suffers here at FC have a tendency to do what some people feel ( ) is overdoing things. I have been eyeing a lab grade hotplate with magnetic stir bar, external temp control via a probe that goes in your extraction to control the extraction within 1 deg of setpoint. Steadily convincing myself I may need a programmable hotplate to run scheduled heat cycles at different temps (decarb hi heat then lower heat infusing, etc). This would all of course need to go with some lab glassware Erienmeyer flask, Buchner filter, vac lines, etc..... It's waaaaay too much like glass shopping I just keep seeing more stuff I want.

Is that too much for personal use? Not gonna ask my wife I know what her answer would be

 

[killick]

@Puffers - I hear you! I have a lot more marijuana usage and processing equipment here than I would have ever thought I'd need even 2 short years ago! Now I'm trying to figure out out to maximize my daily amount in fewer doses. I'm now of the mind that the more I can concentrate, the more of these concentrates I can use for medibles. For heat processing the stove is out (gas), so hot water bath is about it, until we get into our own house and I get my things outta the seacan.

And, oddly enough, we live in a very friendly province for MMJ, but can only buy low-test EC here, with ISO at $4.00/litre at the megamart. Maybe one of the friendly wineries or craft distilleries up the road can help me out with that if I ask nicely?