Thunderbolt 202 - coil powered, untethered, metal-free, 19mm&14mm compatible all-in one ball injector vaporiser

[funkensteinberg]

Ok, thanks.

I have a Qaroma PID and their wiring diagram is:

1 TC-
2 TC+
3 GND
4 AC
5 AC

I know you can ’t say for sure without actually trying, but looking at https://www.aliexpress.com/item/10000245582837.html, seems the wiring diagram matches the QaromaShop PID diagram.

You mentioned the 25mm is what will be wanted, so that's what I'll go with.

QShop wiring (RecVapes):

b2cvapes (Aliexpress):

 

[Haze Mister]

Yes,the wiring configurations pictured above seem to be the most common ones.

I also have an older Nug Smasher kit which seems to use the "china/high5/qshop " wiring.


b2cvape replied and said they cannot produce a deep coil for the Graveda kit, and also confirmed that their coil is of similar depth to the Dab Ready coil (around 17mm). I will order that coil which will fit the Nug Smasher controller and report.

To repeat previous comments: The Graveda kit has a shallow coil which will work but will need high coil temperatures, unless I produce a shorter version of the TB 202 for this coil.
This won't be any cheaper as the factory charges the same whether the piece is 18mm or 15mm long. I don't know if using the coil at near max temperature is OK in the long term. I guess it will have a shorter life span.

There are a couple of things I was not aware of before embarking on this project:
-the coil depth variability
-That China also has spring holidays and they are not working 24/7- who would have thought!!

So I've taken a short break myself to assess the marketing situation with this project. People are not biting with the pre-orders as I had hoped so I will have to take a risk and fund the first batch out of my own savings, and then try to sell it .

If i do that, I may have to take a different approach to selling this product- and possibly not through this forum as the stakes are different.
I know that soon after there are images of the product, some rodent will get it (badly) copied, as has happened with the Qshop products (which are themselves not exactly original!). I have spent a lot of time and money on this and I am not about to make it easy for them. It is unfortunate I cannot edit my own posts in this thread, which makes the forum even less suitable as a place to promote products like this, which are not easily patented.

So I cannot show the prototype here at this point and this creates a bit of a marketing problem

 

[Oden]

Yes,the wiring configurations pictured above seem to be the most common ones.

I also have an older Nug Smasher kit which seems to use the "china/high5/qshop " wiring.


b2cvape replied and said they cannot produce a deep coil for the Graveda kit, and also confirmed that their coil is of similar depth to the Dab Ready coil (around 17mm). I will order that coil which will fit the Nug Smasher controller and report.

To repeat previous comments: The Graveda kit has a shallow coil which will work but will need high coil temperatures, unless I produce a shorter version of the TB 202 for this coil.
This won't be any cheaper as the factory charges the same whether the piece is 18mm or 15mm long. I don't know if using the coil at near max temperature is OK in the long term. I guess it will have a shorter life span.

There are a couple of things I was not aware of before embarking on this project:
-the coil depth variability
-That China also has spring holidays and they are not working 24/7- who would have thought!!

So I've taken a short break myself to assess the marketing situation with this project. People are not biting with the pre-orders as I had hoped so I will have to take a risk and fund the first batch out of my own savings, and then try to sell it .

If i do that, I may have to take a different approach to selling this product- and possibly not through this forum as the stakes are different.
I know that soon after there are images of the product, some rodent will get it (badly) copied, as has happened with the Qshop products (which are themselves not exactly original!). I have spent a lot of time and money on this and I am not about to make it easy for them. It is unfortunate I cannot edit my own posts in this thread, which makes the forum even less suitable as a place to promote products like this, which are not easily patented.

So I cannot show the prototype here at this point and this creates a bit of a marketing problem

Personally, that's all that keeps me from buying.
No picture.
However, this is the kind of product I'm looking for.
Hope your project goes well

 

[Haze Mister]

Personally, that's all that keeps me from buying.
No picture.
However, this is the kind of product I'm looking for.
Hope your project goes well

check yr PM in 5 minutes!

 

[Haze Mister]

DC Cobra Coil Made By Disorderly Conduction

DC Cobra Coil. Enjoy a perfect temperature and untethered range of motion!! These are intended to be used as heating stations for your Quartz Buckets, Slurpers, Towers & Blenders. One Year Warranty. Most reliable, affordable and accurate heating sources in the industry. Team it up with one of or...

www.disorderlyconduction.com

Annoyingly there is nothing listed under "Dimensions" but this will be good. Small variations in depth are not a problem. A heat shield is on the to-do list once the metalwork is worked out.

I contacted DC about the wiring of the Cobra coil to confirm compatibility with other controllers.

 

[funkensteinberg]

Yes,the wiring configurations pictured above seem to be the most common ones.

I also have an older Nug Smasher kit which seems to use the "china/high5/qshop " wiring.


b2cvape replied and said they cannot produce a deep coil for the Graveda kit, and also confirmed that their coil is of similar depth to the Dab Ready coil (around 17mm). I will order that coil which will fit the Nug Smasher controller and report.

To repeat previous comments: The Graveda kit has a shallow coil which will work but will need high coil temperatures, unless I produce a shorter version of the TB 202 for this coil.
This won't be any cheaper as the factory charges the same whether the piece is 18mm or 15mm long. I don't know if using the coil at near max temperature is OK in the long term. I guess it will have a shorter life span.

There are a couple of things I was not aware of before embarking on this project:
-the coil depth variability
-That China also has spring holidays and they are not working 24/7- who would have thought!!

So I've taken a short break myself to assess the marketing situation with this project. People are not biting with the pre-orders as I had hoped so I will have to take a risk and fund the first batch out of my own savings, and then try to sell it .

If i do that, I may have to take a different approach to selling this product- and possibly not through this forum as the stakes are different.
I know that soon after there are images of the product, some rodent will get it (badly) copied, as has happened with the Qshop products (which are themselves not exactly original!). I have spent a lot of time and money on this and I am not about to make it easy for them. It is unfortunate I cannot edit my own posts in this thread, which makes the forum even less suitable as a place to promote products like this, which are not easily patented.

So I cannot show the prototype here at this point and this creates a bit of a marketing problem

Hey, sorry to hear of your woes. I know basically what I want: your butane thunderfuck, with a handle, resting in a coil but not attached to it. I’m sure I could redneck stoner engineer something from my ceroma/taroma2, a broken coil & handle and rest it on a working coil… but I’d rather have something that’s designed for this and you’re almost there already. A picture is nice, but that wouldn’t be the THING that changes my mind one way or the other.

As for making diff variations to accommodate slight variances in coil depths just sounds like complicating an already complex thing. Heating to 370c instead of 310c because of 3mm difference in coil depth isn’t going to be the biggest stumbling block I don’t think (or hope)…

Good luck! I hope we get there

PS: I mean, if you want to PM me a pic I’d love to see it. But you already have my commit given the price range mentioned and functionality described.

Peace.

 

[Haze Mister]

Yes, I claimed originally that the 202 will work with all 25mm axial coils and this turned out to have a caveat in that the deeper coils will work better for the size being produced, so this is annoying but not a deal breaker, I think.

Another advantage of this design is that you can easily remove some of the heater mass (balls); since the heating is mostly coming from below, this will make the injector quicker to heat up when using a shallow coil. At least the basic deep coils are not expensive and b2cvape can custom make them for other controllers- assuming the manufacturer followed the standard colour coding of the wiring!

 

[funkensteinberg]

Yes, I claimed originally that the 202 will work with all 25mm axial coils and this turned out to have a caveat in that the deeper coils will work better for the size being produced, so this is annoying but not a deal breaker, I think.

Another advantage of this design is that you can easily remove some of the heater mass (balls); since the heating is mostly coming from below, this will make the injector quicker to heat up when using a shallow coil. At least the basic deep coils are not expensive and b2cvape can custom make them for other controllers- assuming the manufacturer followed the standard colour coding of the wiring!

I wonder what effect slightly stretching that shallow coil would have…

 

[Haze Mister]

Yes, that should help if people can't get a deeper coil. Also included in the package I'm offering is a thing to adjust the fit of the injector in the coil and facilitate heating!

 

[Haze Mister]

Time for a big update:

The coil situation is resolved and there is no need to produce two injector sizes. My original statement stands and all 25mm coils will work- shallow coils can be easily stretched a little to encase the entire injector. The slight downside of the shallower coil is the need to use a higher temperature setting and wait longer for heat-up.

I was able to do this to the Graveda shallow coil by inserting a knife blade between each turn (all the way through) and carefully leveraging to slightly expand the coil. It took just a few minutes.

I tested the rig after doing this and the improvement in performance was serious. The prototype now works as I wanted it to!

However - I have taken down the demo videos I shared as the prototype no longer represents the final product. I have already improved the design for efficiency and lower cost. The original design was not only not efficient enough but required a handle that turned out to be needlessly expensive.

The TB-202 will be manufactured with an advanced ceramic material only. This means shorter heat-up times and lower temperatures. ETA is July.

DC did not respond to my request for info on the Cobra coil wiring scheme- they want people to buy their own PID controller of course. Not recommended!

Webshop is now open:

Elixier Designs

Premium metal-free herb aromatherapy diffusers

elixierdesigns.bigcartel.com

Please bookmark and share the link on reddit if possible.
I am no longer selling through this forum's PMs and may not be logging in here very often. Contact is on the webshop.

I will be mostly just posting photos and video links here from now on as I need to be able to remove obsolete information and this forum is not the platform for this- to say the least.

An even more premium and heavy duty bowl design has been OK'd by the glass man- coming soon.

Some of the stuff posted in this thread is no longer relevant or correct but I cannot remove it.
The condensed, updated version will be posted on the shop's TB-202 page. "DIffuser" is the technical term for these devices, got it?!

 

[Haze Mister]

tl;dr complete heating options:

The low budget heating option - they have the box available in various colours.

Choose the 25mm coil, and voltage for your country

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004617342173.html

I will post photos of ways to fix the coil onto a stable base that doesn't look too much like a lab project.. If and when the TB 202 is selling, i plan to offer more interesting coil bases.

For a manufactured coil base, you must currently order from the US and the lower budget option is the Disorderly Conduction Cobra Coil posted earlier+ a controller from the same company.

The current premium option is the Dab Ready with its coffee machine style.

 

[Pcloudy]

Oooooo I read through this and I am interested for sure.

 

[Oden]

tl;dr complete heating options:

The low budget heating option - they have the box available in various colours.

Choose the 25mm coil, and voltage for your country

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004617342173.html?spm=a2g0o.detail.0.0.16ba15094UEgaP&gps-id=pcDetailBottomMoreThisSeller&scm=1007.13339.291025.0&scm_id=1007.13339.291025.0&scm-url=1007.13339.291025.0&pvid=22627ce9-13f6-46ca-bc26-a85903ba27b1&_t=gps-id:pcDetailBottomMoreThisSeller,scm-url:1007.13339.291025.0,pvid:22627ce9-13f6-46ca-bc26-a85903ba27b1,tpp_buckets:668%232846%238107%231934&pdp_npi=3%40dis%21EUR%21114.1%2191.29%21%21%21%21%21%40211b600816837131472158262e4ce6%2112000029848080660%21rec%21ES%214290714570

I will post photos of ways to fix the coil onto a stable base that doesn't look too much like a lab project.. If and when the TB 202 is selling, i plan to offer more interesting coil bases.

For a manufactured coil base, you must currently order from the US and the lower budget option is the Disorderly Conduction Cobra Coil posted earlier+ a controller from the same company.

The current premium option is the Dab Ready with its coffee machine style.

Are you sure that the TB 202 is compatible with DabReady?
It changes everything!

 

[Ramahs]

 

[Haze Mister]

Are you sure that the TB 202 is compatible with DabReady?
It changes everything!

Yes, it is! the plan from the get-go was to be DR compatible. All the 25mm axial coils will work as discussed with the deeper coils such as the DR being preferable.

The project is unfortunately delayed because the funds I was anticipating are delayed and the Quartz Thunderbolt production issue with the original factory dropping out of the project was a bit of a set-back - to say the least!

The TB-202 prototype was expensive and more has already been spent on balls and handle materials.

 

[Haze Mister]

While we wait for the injectors I started work on the upcoming bubbler adapter to accompany the QT and TB-202. This is the quick and dirty first attempt; the final design will actually lower the female joint a little. Made with thick borosilicate tube.

This inexpensive accessory which is something between an "ash catcher" and a drop-down will make it much more comfortable to use the QT or other vapes with short mouthpiece bubblers that are designed for dabbing . What this means is you will not have the hot injector so close to your face when toking!

I decided to add this to the shop (coming soon) as I cannot see anything like this really available outside the USA (?), with Chinese versions being generally too long and ugly for my liking.

 

[Haze Mister]

The TB-202 prototype (optionally with controller and coil shown above) will soon be available to loan to a well-established forum member for test driving and reporting... the PID controller runs on 220V. Ideally I would like to lend this to a Dab-Ready owner. Option to buy.

Contact me to discuss...

 

[Haze Mister]

FInally got the quote I was looking for after contacting about a dozen factories in Asia and one in the US - I was aiming for a Silicon Carbide version of the 202.

As SiC has over 50-100 times the thermal conductivity of quartz or zirconia it would offer a much much faster heat-up time!

As it turns out, i would have to sell a SiC version of the 202 (complete with handle and SiC balls) for at least €600 to make it viable.... Since the level of interest in this is what it is, that ain't happening so we 're sticking to quartz for now... unless someone wants to entirely fund the production of a SiC model!

In the meantime I have lowered the pre-order price for the quartz version (with SiC balls) to €190 ( or less for existing customers).

I should have a new handle ready in a week or so and at that point I will show off the prototype here and see what the interest is.

 

[Haze Mister]

The final production issue with the TB-202 is resolved in a very neat and economical fashion without compromising on materials.

There is a growing list of people contacting me about this...

Reminder: I no longer work through the forum and may not be able to access PM messages here.

Please email me at thunderbolt at fastmail dot fm
A contact email can also be found on my webshop, or you can try catching me on IG: elixier_naturals (slower response time)


This remains a private release for now and will likely be scooped up by a retailer when the batch of 10 units is ready. Negotiations are happening.

BTW the TB-202 name is a reference to my favourite synthesizer, the Roland TB-303 ... it is not a reference to anything else that anyone else may come up with, so hopefully that is clear.

 

[Haze Mister]

Final Update:

This project is being renamed to avoid confusion with the Quartz Thunderbolt (new batch imminent) and this thread will not be updated further. Contact me via the Elixier webshop or IG- I am no longer using this forum.

A certain US-branded coil + PID system previously focused on in this thread will NOT work with this project as it does not have the spec or design needed for this application. This was only revealed by the manufacturer 2 weeks ago via IG video on their page, which I am not allowed to discuss.

Any other American branded kits/ special coils mentioned here will probably NOT work.
Only bare coils (not fixed inside any enclosure or heat shield unless designed by us) and the generic unbranded ( and best value for money) coils and controllers mentioned earlier will be supported and this vape will come as a kit to work with those and those only.


PM inbox disabled, please send all enquiries through webshop or IG.

 

[Haze Mister]

Due to the unbelievably hostile (passive aggressive) atmosphere here (including attempts at intimidation via PM by vendors and their pals), as well as direct bullying of other designers trying to sell ("your intentions don't matter, pal"), I will no longer be promoting my products here. Others are free to start threads discussing any product, as far as I can see.

Elixier Designs is now a company and we have sold more on IG in a few weeks than anything through this forum in 6 months... On top of that, general community discussions in this forum are micro- managed with severe restrictions on what "manufacturers" are apparently allowed to say.
Well, I am not a manufacturer, I am a designer, and do not agree with the way the rules are being applied and what goes down here.

As such, I don't really have the interest to spend time here any longer.

My superior designs will continue to be presented and sold through the webshop and IG page where my limited screen time is better spent for these projects.

 

[Oden]

Final Update:

This project is being renamed to avoid confusion with the Quartz Thunderbolt (new batch imminent) and this thread will not be updated further. Contact me via the Elixier webshop or IG- I am no longer using this forum.

A certain US-branded coil + PID system previously focused on in this thread will NOT work with this project as it does not have the spec or design needed for this application. This was only revealed by the manufacturer 2 weeks ago via IG video on their page, which I am not allowed to discuss.

Any other American branded kits/ special coils mentioned here will probably NOT work.
Only bare coils (not fixed inside any enclosure or heat shield unless designed by us) and the generic unbranded ( and best value for money) coils and controllers mentioned earlier will be supported and this vape will come as a kit to work with those and those only.


PM inbox disabled, please send all enquiries through webshop or IG.

What is your Instagram please?

 

[fucreg123]

What is your Instagram please?

elixier_naturals

 

[Oden]

elixier_naturals

Thanks

 

[Shit Snacks]

Due to the unbelievably hostile (passive aggressive) atmosphere here (including attempts at intimidation via PM by vendors and their pals), as well as direct bullying of other designers trying to sell ("your intentions don't matter, pal"), I will no longer be promoting my products here. Others are free to start threads discussing any product, as far as I can see.

I'm sorry you have had to deal with that, why do so many people feel it is their duty to harass you directly? Live and let live people... They must have felt severely threatened and or need to reevaluate how they react??

Elixier Designs is now a company and we have sold more on IG in a few weeks than anything through this forum in 6 months... On top of that, general community discussions in this forum are micro- managed with severe restrictions on what "manufacturers" are apparently allowed to say.

That's great you are selling more through IG! I don't know how micromanaged, seems to vary as some manufacturers don't have an issue, though many do leave the site unfortunately... It can be tough to deal with since it is not geared towards that I suppose?

Well, I am not a manufacturer, I am a designer, and do not agree with the way the rules are being applied and what goes down here.

As such, I don't really have the interest to spend time here any longer.

To be fair, here the manufacturer tag doesn't necessarily mean you are the literal manufacturer of your product, but since you designed it and are selling it, manufacturer is the label that covers more appropriately than retailer or accessory maker....???

My superior designs will continue to be presented and sold through the webshop and IG page where my limited screen time is better spent for these projects.

Anyway we'll miss you, you contributed a lot of good here, that will live on, I'm glad you will be better spending your time online with the platforms that benefit you more though, (I need to do more of that myself) still wishing you much luck with these endeavors!

However the attitude of "my superior designs" does not feel that inviting to me personally, certainly sounds like something that doesn't tend to go well here and could tick off other vape makers I suppose? Certainly does seem like you may have been pushed there too though so yes live and let live I say! High roads are hard though lol

Also I bet the terp hammer folks will release an all quartz version and probably why they would prefer your product not to work with theirs? Off topic but That's a shame as more cross compatibility in this industry could be such a great thing in my opinion!