Thoughts on recharegable batteries and vaporizers (also in general)

[Vicki]

From what I have read here (and other places as well), working a rechargeable battery is a necessity, but is it really? Do they all get memories, or just some? I've thought about this with my Solo (I never let it run down all the way), and now with our new Microsoft Surface Pro 3. The tech at the Microsoft Store told me I could just leave my SP3 plugged in all the time, and it would not hurt the battery. I don't always let my Dr. Dabber battery drain completely either before I charge it.

Opinions?

 

[MinnBobber]

Hi Vicki,
I posted the following in the Mighty section where battery questions came up. Note: my summary and the linked study relate to all Li-Ion batteries:
you asked about battery memory and they do not have a memory.
..............................................................................................................

No, the battery is NOT bypassed by the charger. The charger provides an input charge to the battery while the battery is discharging to power the heating element.

I would be concerned about Lith-Ion battery life while charging and discharging simultaneously. Below is a very interesting albeit long article on prolonging any Lithium battery's life. among the highlights:

- Li-ion batteries do not like elevated heat (above 86 F), meaning it will shorten battery life
- they do not like full discharges, partial discharges will prolong battery life. They like a low
DoD (depth of discharge) to extend how many cycles they last
- they don't like extended storage at full charge or at elevated heat

http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries

Charging and discharging at the same time has to put a high heat load into the battery.
Anybody have a temp gun to measure battery heat level while on the charger AND heating?
I'd be concerned about the impact on battery life, even if S & B say it's ok. OK is different
than is it good for the battery/battery life.

I use this info on my miniVAP to : not charge to full capacity if it will sit, not run it way down, keep the depth of discharge low, etc. But, that's a lot easier to do since it has excess capacity to play with, 3 hour battery life on low temp.

 

[Vicki]

Hi Vicki,
I posted the following in the Mighty section where battery questions came up. Note: my summary and the linked study relate to all Li-Ion batteries:
you asked about battery memory and they do not have a memory.
..............................................................................................................

No, the battery is NOT bypassed by the charger. The charger provides an input charge to the battery while the battery is discharging to power the heating element.

I would be concerned about Lith-Ion battery life while charging and discharging simultaneously. Below is a very interesting albeit long article on prolonging any Lithium battery's life. among the highlights:

- Li-ion batteries do not like elevated heat (above 86 F), meaning it will shorten battery life
- they do not like full discharges, partial discharges will prolong battery life. They like a low
DoD (depth of discharge) to extend how many cycles they last
- they don't like extended storage at full charge or at elevated heat

http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries

Charging and discharging at the same time has to put a high heat load into the battery.
Anybody have a temp gun to measure battery heat level while on the charger AND heating?
I'd be concerned about the impact on battery life, even if S & B say it's ok. OK is different
than is it good for the battery/battery life.

I use this info on my miniVAP to : not charge to full capacity if it will sit, not run it way down, keep the depth of discharge low, etc. But, that's a lot easier to do since it has excess capacity to play with, 3 hour battery life on low temp.

So, leaving a device plugged in all the time (that uses a Li-Ion battery) won't degrade the battery?

 

[MinnBobber]

So, leaving a device plugged in all the time (that uses a Li-Ion battery) won't degrade the battery?

.........................................................................
They say that in a perfect world they would not leave a laptop with battery plugged in all the time BUT it's probably not worth worrying about. They'd even consider removing the battery but that's also not really necessary. They say most important variable is avoid high heat for the battery.

A high rate of discharge, like a vape, heats up the battery as it's working really hard. If you then charge it at the same time, that also inputs heat and Li-ion batteries don't like high heat.
Even if S & B says it's ok to simultaneously charge AND use a Mighty/Crafty, I would not do it IMO.


Note that miniVAP recommends/warns to not charge and use it simultaneously.

 

[Vicki]

.........................................................................
They say that in a perfect world they would not leave a laptop with battery plugged in all the time BUT it's probably not worth worrying about. They'd even consider removing the battery but that's also not really necessary. They say most important variable is avoid high heat for the battery.

A high rate of discharge, like a vape, heats up the battery as it's working really hard. If you then charge it at the same time, that also inputs heat and Li-ion batteries don't like high heat.
Even if S & B says it's ok to simultaneously charge AND use a Mighty/Crafty, I would not do it IMO.


Note that miniVAP recommends/warns to not charge and use it simultaneously.

This is why I have not used my Solo at the same time I'm using it. I just don't feel comfortable doing that. As far as my Surface Pro 3 goes, the battery cannot be replaced.

 

[max]

As far as my Surface Pro 3 goes, the battery cannot be replaced.

It can be, but it's not something the typical SP owner would want to tackle.

 

[DieHard]

This is why I have not used my Solo at the same time I'm using it. I just don't feel comfortable doing that. As far as my Surface Pro 3 goes, the battery cannot be replaced.

How are you using it if you are not using it while you are using it?
Sorry!

 

[Vicki]

It can be, but it's not something the typical SP owner would want to tackle.

I'm not even sure Microsoft tackles it. This is from their website:

Battery care

• Operating temperature. Surface is designed to work between 32°F and 95°F (or 0°C to 35°C). Lithium-ion batteries are sensitive to high temperatures, so keep your Surface out of the sun and don’t leave it in a hot car.
• Recharge anytime. The battery doesn’t need to be empty or low before you recharge. You can recharge the battery whenever you’d like. However, it’s best to let the battery run to below 10 percent at least once per month before you recharge it.
• Battery warranty. If your Surface battery is found to be defective during the warranty period, it is covered under the standard Surface Warranty. For more details about the Surface Warranty or for extended warranty coverage, see Surface standard warranty and Microsoft Complete for Surface.

http://www.microsoft.com/surface/en-us/support/hardware-and-drivers/battery-and-power-pro

This is an interesting video too. Too many parts! I could never put that back together again!

How are you using it if you are not using it while you are using it?
Sorry!

Don't be sorry man! It's rare that I fuck up like that.

 

[max]

I'm not even sure Microsoft tackles it.

Oh they'll replace worn out batteries...for a price, just like some vape makers.

to any company designing products with user replaceable batteries. When available space is at a minimum though, and maximizing run time is the goal, the user friendly/replaceable battery often loses out, and if you want a new bat, you have to pay for major surgery.

 

[Hippie Dickie]

Do they all get memories, or just some?

it depends on the battery chemistry ... i prefer LiFePO4 for higher power output, fastest recharging, 10 times the life (recharge cycles)

the user friendly/replaceable battery often loses out

high current draw really requires soldered in batteries for most reliable operation - which as a designer (and user) is my primary concern.