Thinking of getting a concentrate exclusive pen

[TwistedGray]

For the atomizer...

I picked up a Yocan Evolve Plus already with a pack of the donuts, should arrive this week. I'll look into the recommended temperature controllers (TC) because flavor is more important to me than anything else. I'll get medicate, no doubt, but I'd like to maintain the terp. flavors throughout.

 

[biohacker]

Skimmed through this thread, and i'm thinking of completely switching over to concentrates, for several reasons. I've been vaping flowers (and some concentrates) for over a decade now, and i'm planning on going concentrate exclusive, while also using way less frequently. The Grasshopper vape has converted me from a session style vaporist to a a one hitter, and now I want that one hitter style with more convenience with the oomph of a concentrate hit.

All this talk of atomizers and donuts is confusing. If money is no object (within reason) what should I buy exactly, so I don't need to mod, etc. so I can have a purist connoisseur level experience? Links would be appreciated! And if it can easily mate with a glass water tool, even better! Unless the experience is so smooth it isn't needed?

 

[TwistedGray]

All this talk of atomizers and donuts is confusing. If money is no object (within reason) what should I buy exactly, so I don't need to mod, etc. so I can have a purist connoisseur level experience? Links would be appreciated! And if it can easily mate with a glass water tool, even better! Unless the experience is so smooth it isn't needed?

Lol, I don't truly get it myself either.

Atomizer is the device that turns your concentrate into vapor (I think). To do that you either have coils or a ceramic donut (coilless). The supposed advantage of coilless is greater flavor due to the slower "cooking" process of the material as compared to immediate vaporization of the concentrate using a coil.

 

[biohacker]

It's cool i'm having second thoughts because on a quick search...i really don't want my tolerance to skyrocket anymore than it is, unless this can be smartly mitigated?

Has anyone here been using concentrates exclusively after flowers for more than several months to a year? Would you go back? Hmmm, another thread?

 

[TwistedGray]

It's cool i'm having second thoughts because on a quick search...i really don't want my tolerance to skyrocket anymore than it is, unless this can be smartly mitigated?

Has anyone here been using concentrates exclusively after flowers for more than several months to a year? Would you go back? Hmmm, another thread?

For starters, don't use it exclusively.

I'll use this when I feel the need for an instant WHAM! Such is the case if/when I wake up at 3am. Otherwise I'll continue just using my Arizer Air with small doses.

...And yes I think you'll get more traction on that question with another thread. Generally speaking, I think concentrate exclusive medicating is not a good idea...personal opinion, for what that is worth.

 

[Baron23]

Ok, so I know that @TwistedGray bought an Evolve but here are my suggestions:

1. This from New Vape. Its a DT2.5/Atmos Kiln type atomizer (same exact stuff, made in China) and an Eleaf iStick 30W VW/VV mod. For $30, this is a screaming hot deal
https://www.newvape.com/velvet-hammer-mod-vaporizer/

2. if I wanted a true pen, I would get (well, I have bought) a Linx Hynos Zero. Doesn't leak, small, sleek, works well, and have been reliable for about 8-9 months now I think. I particularly like the Zero for a quick hit to boost a flower session or, as @TwistedGray mentioned, for that 3 am medication dose.

As for TC versus VW/VV. A TC mod does not measure temperature in an atomizer. It works on the basis that resistance of a resistive load (our coils) changes with temperature. There is the temperature coefficient of resistance (TCR) value for any given metallic heating element element (e.g. Ni, Ti, ect). DT advised me that on their ceramic donut, the metallic coil in the donut (the thingy that actually gets hot) is either Ni or at least the Ni value should be used. So, the temp is derived from a value once removed from actual temperature.

But even so, what does the mod do when it thinks its off temp....it varies the voltage (and hence the wattage). In VV or VW mode, I can set the one parameter that actually changes directly and not rely on TCR.

Now, the reason DT wants you to use TC mode is that many people over drive their coils and burn them out....and then want them warranted by DT. Can't say I blame him.

Also, TC mode will cycle power to keep temp (PWM maybe?) and I would suppose this is better for atomizers. But I still like using VV/VW as its direct.

TC is required, Imo, since it is difficult to get big clouds and avoid combustion without it.

I am not convinced that anybody in this world ever actually combusted these highly volatile concentrates. They do boil off, but combust...I don't think so.

 

[TwistedGray]

@Baron23
Couldn't someone buy the linked DT2.25 unit, pop off the atomizer, and then use the controller on their pen (such as an Evolve)?

 

[herbivore21]

Ok, so I know that @TwistedGray bought an Evolve but here are my suggestions:

1. This from New Vape. Its a DT2.5/Atmos Kiln type atomizer (same exact stuff, made in China) and an Eleaf iStick 30W VW/VV mod. For $30, this is a screaming hot deal
https://www.newvape.com/velvet-hammer-mod-vaporizer/

2. if I wanted a true pen, I would get (well, I have bought) a Linx Hynos Zero. Doesn't leak, small, sleek, works well, and have been reliable for about 8-9 months now I think. I particularly like the Zero for a quick hit to boost a flower session or, as @TwistedGray mentioned, for that 3 am medication dose.

As for TC versus VW/VV. A TC mod does not measure temperature in an atomizer. It works on the basis that resistance of a resistive load (our coils) changes with temperature. There is the temperature coefficient of resistance (TCR) value for any given metallic heating element element (e.g. Ni, Ti, ect). DT advised me that on their ceramic donut, the metallic coil in the donut (the thingy that actually gets hot) is either Ni or at least the Ni value should be used. So, the temp is derived from a value once removed from actual temperature.

But even so, what does the mod do when it thinks its off temp....it varies the voltage (and hence the wattage). In VV or VW mode, I can set the one parameter that actually changes directly and not rely on TCR.

Now, the reason DT wants you to use TC mode is that many people over drive their coils and burn them out....and then want them warranted by DT. Can't say I blame him.

Also, TC mode will cycle power to keep temp (PWM maybe?) and I would suppose this is better for atomizers. But I still like using VV/VW as its direct.

I am not convinced that anybody in this world ever actually combusted these highly volatile concentrates. They do boil off, but combust...I don't think so.

Thanks for elaborating on the values involved with TCR that I was talking about earlier brother! I totally spaced on that lol

I agree with all of this and I love my puffco+ for the same reasons you love the hypnos zero. It is especially good for the 3am medication hits isn't it!

 

[2clicker]

I've had no trouble at all using the Puffco+ at 10-13w and have never had any over-cooked taste that way. I got the overcooked taste into the cart by heating it up too much trying to clean like a nail at first, which worked. An iso soak will solve it I'm sure. A new chamber is <$20 anyway so this shit is throw-away cheap compared to other vapes.

I don't like donut designs and prefer the Puffco+ because the whole bottom of the chamber gets heated. I can get the bottom of the chamber to get white as brand new even after staining it black after lots of usage! Also means no errl can pool in less hot parts of the floor of the dish.

Still I'm sure these are all mostly similar carts I don't much care to try others right now (but that will come later, replacement carts are so cheap!) but my thanks for the suggestions of mods, it definitely sounds like I was looking at the right kind of thing with the vtwo mini

I actually have some no-brainer ideas to make these carts much more efficient too! I need to buy myself a CNC with various diamond tooling before I can make that a reality though!

get the Vtwo mini. its really a great device. joyetech often provides updates to the firmware and upgrading is very easy.

i cant speak to it using the TCR settings though. ive been enjoying the clean taste from SS316 wire using the SS316 setting. just switched to SS from Ti. i do not get a metal taste from SS or Ti when running it in its respective TC mode on a joyetech device. ive got a VTC mini and a Vtwo mini. its been a while since ive used ceramic. so im curious to try some of DTs donut/cup setups and see if i notice a difference.

 

[tsp247]

Been using a Hohmslice by Hohmtech. Can TC anything. Paired with a Yocan cerum using the quartz dual coil in Ti mode. 350-400° 12-15w depending on desired hit. Amazing flavor. Got the mod half off so the whole setup with battery ~$65. You could pair the mod with various atomizers. Extremely versatile unit. Battery last for days and the unit is all metal. Very solid build.

 

[Baron23]

@Baron23
Couldn't someone buy the linked DT2.25 unit, pop off the atomizer, and then use the controller on their pen (such as an Evolve)?

Hi - I'm not sure what you are asking.

Is your question whether one can take the atomizer off of the New Vape Velvet Hammer that I linked, and put an Evolve atomizer on the Eleaf iStick that came from New Vape?

If so, then I'm not sure as I don't know what kind of thread is on the Evolve. If its a 510 thread, then I don't see any reason why not. The Eleaf mod will run sub-ohm and is very controllable.

I'm not saying you can as I have never done so, but these things really aren't that complicated....its a coil and a regulated battery basically and if your battery can do sub-ohm and have 510, the it should be able to drive any physically compatible atomizer.

Thanks for elaborating on the values involved with TCR that I was talking about earlier brother! I totally spaced on that lol

I agree with all of this and I love my puffco+ for the same reasons you love the hypnos zero. It is especially good for the 3am medication hits isn't it!

hahaha...well, I'm glad that my meaning got through in that post, @herbivore21 , because I was pretty baked at the time and rereading it makes me cringe a bit at its wondering about. LOL

Cheers

 

[TwistedGray]

Just ran some of this BadFish shatter across the QDC coils. I am enjoying the efficiency of the Yocan (or likely any concentrate pen).

Thanks for the suggestions guys/gals. This is good

 

[2clicker]

Hey...I am not the herbi whose opinion you are soliciting, but I did read over that and I have some thoughts on the issue too:

Thanks for posting that, first off, it's good to be challenged and to raise issues of common concern.

I think your skepticism of the types of ceramic donuts being discussed here is misplaced, based on the hazards you shared with us regarding silica-based RBA heaters.

The reason: all these ceramic donuts aren't made of silica. They are made of alumina (aluminum oxide) to the best of my knowledge. Various brands of donuts may have different coil wires soldered to them, some are Ti, others kanthal (yuck) the DT wires are made of nichrome. The soldering material for the wire can vary as well.

These kinds of ceramic donuts we're discussing are all non-porous, and are quite durable to abrasive scraping. They do not emit dust or particles.

With regular use vaping melt oils, a layer of thick "reclaim" oil can accumulate on the donuts. My lazy trick to get it clean, short of a full-on cleaning, is to set the temp to 200F (the minimum) and hold the button down while i scrape it off with a flat-edged dab tool. The gentle heat loosens the reclaim, doesn't even make it sizzle, while the tool easily glides across, wiping it off and leaving an almost perfectly white and clean and flat donut underneath.

I've done this on some donuts hundreds of times, and no visible chunks, dust, or fibers break off from the donut. Even after burning them clean by setting them to VW mode (that mode does have some use) and heating them to glow mildly, the integrity of the donuts is uncompromised, even if you set the watts/temps too high and use it a lot. The electrical contact blows between the wire and the solder on the donut, rendering it inoperable, well before any significant particulates can be emitted from the donuts.

The guy who designs these donuts and vapes, Matt @divinetribe, has even sent one of his latest units to a lab for an off-gassing test, and he has shared these raw lab results with me . Although it is quite detailed and I can't interpret it with much confidence, he has assured me the results were excellent, with the help of his doctor & the lab techs explaining it. IDK why, but I'm sure these results will be published soon, once they can be broken down for the layman.

But I'd encourage you to contact Matt if you have concerns about the safety of vaping with ceramics. He's quite accessible and un-pretentious, and I'm pretty sure you'll come away from a discussion with him with your concerns completley or mostly allayed.

Anyways, sorry for the long counter-rant, but I think you've got silica mixed with alumina in this case. I'd like to see the original source of that quote from another forum too, to see what other people have responded to regarding that post. Thanks

yes i did mix them up. actually embarrassed a bit because i knew all of this already and just spaced it lol. i had done some research about a year ago looking for ideal ceramic.

what i still dont know is if all porous ceramic is bad news...? depending on the type of ceramic. i ask because non porous ceramic, while tastes great, doesnt wick and that makes in a total PITA imo. and then you cant invert your device for use with glass unless you dont mine losing half the dab. sure you could hook tubing up to it or something but i really want something that wicks.

thats why i feel my SS coils are a better option over ceramic. im not convinced that a SS coil (or even Ti) puts off any metal taste when used in TC mode. so why would ceramic that doesnt wick be better? the flavor? i just dont see it personally. well it looks like im just going to have to get some DT donuts and do a side by side comparison.

i feel like if they could make a porous donut... that it would be the best option. but if all porous ceramic is not a good idea then maybe ceramic isnt for me. idk yet. more testing needed.

 

[invertedisdead]

yes i did mix them up. actually embarrassed a bit because i knew all of this already and just spaced it lol. i had done some research about a year ago looking for ideal ceramic.

what i still dont know is if all porous ceramic is bad news...? depending on the type of ceramic. i ask because non porous ceramic, while tastes great, doesnt wick and that makes in a total PITA imo. and then you cant invert your device for use with glass unless you dont mine losing half the dab. sure you could hook tubing up to it or something but i really want something that wicks.

thats why i feel my SS coils are a better option over ceramic. im not convinced that a SS coil (or even Ti) puts off any metal taste when used in TC mode. so why would ceramic that doesnt wick be better? the flavor? i just dont see it personally. well it looks like im just going to have to get some DT donuts and do a side by side comparison.

i feel like if they could make a porous donut... that it would be the best option. but if all porous ceramic is not a good idea then maybe ceramic isnt for me. idk yet. more testing needed.

W9 makes the 1701 porous ceramic donut.
I would be interested in trying a metal coil in my all ceramic DT housing. I think Matt is testing this, saw a picture somewhere of a coil mounted in one. I think metal mouthpieces are a big part of the metallic taste.

 

[2clicker]

W9 makes the 1701 porous ceramic donut.
I would be interested in trying a metal coil in my all ceramic DT housing. I think Matt is testing this, saw a picture somewhere of a coil mounted in one. I think metal mouthpieces are a big part of the metallic taste.

when you say metal mouthpieces do you mean the drip tip or the rda cap?

 

[invertedisdead]

I mean the part you put up to your lips.
Here's the pic I was thinking about @2clicker
https://www.instagram.com/p/BPaq486BLSX/?taken-by=divinetribe

 

[shredder]

Great thread guys!

I don't have a lot to contribute, but I'm enjoying the thread.

I started my pen adventure with a more ecig deal and quickly soured on it.

And now I use a Sirus by pulsar. I think it's a Linx knockoff. But it works reasonably well, and was fairly inexpensive.

For use I really agree with those 3am hits. Almost garranteed to get back to sleep after a couple quick hits. I love using it that way. Not surprised others are on to this too.

And I look forward to the evolution of concentrate pen vaping. It really is changing for the better, and fast.

 

[paytonpenn]

It's cool i'm having second thoughts because on a quick search...i really don't want my tolerance to skyrocket anymore than it is, unless this can be smartly mitigated?

Has anyone here been using concentrates exclusively after flowers for more than several months to a year? Would you go back? Hmmm, another thread?

Concentrates just don't seem to get me as high as flower. But tolerance for me has never been a concern as a single hit can be satisfying. I do consider them somewhat different highs but I normally have a load or two of concentrates in the gH/MVT/FW before work.

I do prefer my convection devices over the atomizers I have available. The grassHopper with hemp fiber is amazing and rips just as well as my atomizers. I hate mixing herb and oil, I never do that.

I do like the Firewood and MistVape Touch more personally for on the go as they aren't harsh native but the Hopper is perfect when at home when I want to milk a tube.

If people didn't want herb videos I'd just stick to using concentrates as they handle easier and are better value for the price. But I do like them both and very much would miss the high from herb.

 

[muunch]

Been debating this as well. I live in a non legal state but have access to concentrate and prefilled cartridges thus was thinking of the hypnos zero (just for the option to do the 510 carts. fuck those unreliable battery holders)

I'd like some opinions/experience though. Just want something for when i don't feel like busting out my rig etc or firing up torch etc. Not looking to get a onehitter quitter that'll wreck your day type deal, I just want something with nice taste that's easily reloaded for a nice portable boost

 

[TwistedGray]

Been debating this as well. I live in a non legal state but have access to concentrate and prefilled cartridges thus was thinking of the hypnos zero (just for the option to do the 510 carts. fuck those unreliable battery holders)

I'd like some opinions/experience though. Just want something for when i don't feel like busting out my rig etc or firing up torch etc. Not looking to get a onehitter quitter that'll wreck your day type deal, I just want something with nice taste that's easily reloaded for a nice portable boost

My 2c to avoid all the other hassles, if you want something on the go that isn't going to wreck you get a disposable oil pen. They're perfect for exactly what you want, and they're super small (about the size of a cigarette).

 

[TwistedGray]

Concentrates just don't seem to get me as high as flower...

I have the exact same opinion. I don't get much off any concentrate pen unless I'm on a torched rig then it's all downhill real quick. I'm not sure if I'll continue using concentrates or not to be honest...it's just not that fulfilling for me.

 

[muunch]

I don't mind getting rekt. I just don't think it's reasonable for me to expect a pen-type product to give me a blast equal to a dab-rig.

I'd prefer to load my own concentrates rather than use the prefilled carts but the option is nice jic I ever get em. I assume they're awesome for stealth etc


I like flower more too, but I fucked my tolerance up and I pretty much need to have a blast from my torch+quartz nail to get properly baked now so I've been looking at pens so I don't have to mess with busting out my torch and hydratube and etc etc every day bc every night I go to bed like "ok I'm going to not dab tomorrow to get my tolerance back to normal".... we all know how that goes.

 

[TwistedGray]

I don't mind getting rekt. I just don't think it's reasonable for me to expect a pen-type product to give me a blast equal to a dab-rig.

I'd prefer to load my own concentrates rather than use the prefilled carts but the option is nice jic I ever get em. I assume they're awesome for stealth etc

Yeah I doubt there is any concentrate pen that will get you to the level of a rig, but hell maybe I'm wrong. And yes, those disposable pens are about as stealthy as possible (and they taste good...some of them). You literally just inhale and you're done. There is literally nothing to it, so it would make taking a hit from one super super simple. I bet you could board a plane, go to the bathroom, hit the pen, and no one would be the wiser...ps: try that and let me know so that I know the next time i have to fly

 

[PPN]

I doubt there is any concentrate pen that will get you to the level of a rig

Did you tried a Hercule?

This device can make you high, so high!

 

[invertedisdead]

The pen high is never as long as a real dab.

Something to do with the surface being already at vaporizing temperature versus heating it to temperature with the concentrate on it that can't compare.