Discontinued Thermovape Cera (Original thread, closed because of chaos)
- Thread starter SameOldTim
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OF
Well-Known Member
I think we're exactly one thread adapter from putting a Cera oil cart on any handy Ultra body..... The cart is the same diameter (give or take) and adds an inch plus tip. Hopefully TV will be out with it soon, otherwise some clever guy will I bet?
Edit: Just to add a mental picture, I'm thinking the whole thing would be the same basic length as the Ultra plus DART and tip, just the same diameter and more or less smooth. The adapter also be just made with the new thread style and an appropriate top to mate with the Cera cart by TV by using their existing CNC techniques to replace the adapter piece on the Ultra body (changing the switch and ring over of course). No 510 threads at all. Since the IMR 14500 does an OK job with the 20 Watt Evolution, it's should do even better with the 15 Watt Cera you'd think. By the numbers maybe 10 minutes of joy?
OF
jivebuggered
Well-Known Member
You were warned that complaints about shipping belong in the Cera Jibberish thread. Warning issued.
Yes i am new but dont let that worry you. I completely agree with vapethefuture and a few other comments. I paid (via credit card) for my pre order on the 27th of November 2012. One thing i do not possess unfortunately is PATIENCE. I realised that projected shipping time was from the 10th December 2012 (looking more like 2013) but was willing to wait the shipping and customs thing. It very quickly dawned on me that i was NOT going to get it by Christmas. I also realized that the Christmas and New Year celebrations would also mess things up. Yes they have sent me explanations re: the storm damage, lack of supplies, postage problems, Christmas and New Year breaks, solar eclipse (anything i have missed?). I had to sell some of my other possessions to get the money for the Cera Loose Leaf including another vaporizer. I jokingly asked if i could get ahead of the queue because my surname started with A and i live in A- ustralia and was told that they would be done in the order they were received. Since it is now the 4th January and haven`t heard anything since there last email notice on the 20th December im thinking the poor suckers that pre ordered after me are REALLY going to have a long wait. I still feel they should do the International orders before the "local" orders due to the time taken to get to there destinations. Anyway im still waiting to hear "IT HAS BEEN POSTED" but i wont hold my breath. Always trying to be patient but this wait is really killing me (really).
I ordered on 9th Nov and live in Australia but my name begins in R :-)
I was impatient to start with but have come to terms with the fact that I agreed to a contract that by pre-ordering I accepted shipping was subject to change (edit: with no limit) and am ok with that.
I know my Cera will turn up and will be as good quality as originally intended they have just come up against a few hurdles which is to be expected when building anything as ground breaking and innovative as Cera.
Keep ur chin up TET don't listen to the haters I have faith u will deliver when you can
I was impatient to start with but have come to terms with the fact that I agreed to a contract that by pre-ordering I accepted shipping was subject to change (edit: with no limit) and am ok with that.
I know my Cera will turn up and will be as good quality as originally intended they have just come up against a few hurdles which is to be expected when building anything as ground breaking and innovative as Cera.
Keep ur chin up TET don't listen to the haters I have faith u will deliver when you can
YeeeBuddy
Well-Known Member
Not our fault customs is a pain in the ass. I'm not sure why their would be a big difference in time between those who pre ordered at the beginning or just placed an order, getting the right parts seems to be the problem, once they have them its just assembly(which i doubt is too difficult due to its simplicity). Well thats just me hoping at least haha. Shiiit they should give us that live close enough the option to go pick it up when done .
Edit: WOw i cant fucken believe gmail thought my thermovape confirmation was spam, thank god I checked that shit and didnt start trippin on TET haha.
jambandphan03
in flavor country
Just a friendly reminder for those new people who may not know, we are trying to keep this tread from being too cluttered with discussion of shipping and other pre-order details, by going to this thread to spew all you want about that stuff...
http://fuckcombustion.com/threads/cera-the-wait-jibberish-thread.7919/page-18
http://fuckcombustion.com/threads/cera-the-wait-jibberish-thread.7919/page-18
Puffers
Micro-Climate Mastermind
Ok so I have been following this thread since the beginning all 112 pages now 
, I have been expecting this to come up but haven't seen it yet unless I missed it. How does the Persei charger match up to the Cera charger? If its all the same except for the speed of charging I might save the money from the charger and put it into the eliquid cart. BUT if the cera charger will preserve the integrity of the batteries or give me better performance I would happily put down the $ for the Cera one..... TIA
Puff
, I have been expecting this to come up but haven't seen it yet unless I missed it. How does the Persei charger match up to the Cera charger? If its all the same except for the speed of charging I might save the money from the charger and put it into the eliquid cart. BUT if the cera charger will preserve the integrity of the batteries or give me better performance I would happily put down the $ for the Cera one..... TIA Puff
Darb
Well-Known Member
The Persei charger doesn't work very well for me. I sometimes can leave batteries on for hours and they will not charge. Not sure if mine is defective or just a crappy charger. I have a wf-188 that charges way better. I also have the Cera charger but I haven't been using any 18350's recently. If my memory is correct than the Cera charger outperformed the Persei charger as well.
OF
Well-Known Member
The D9 charger will be slower, probably not charge to the same capacity and runs the risk of wrecking expensive batteries. I have a couple D9 chargers (I don't use) and consider the 'right' charger not only faster but good insurance.
OF
Hey guys/girls. Been along for the ride since the beginning. I understand being impatient and changed dates and all (I'm not the best at waiting either) but all the crying and complaining needs to go. It you can't deal with it cancel and move on with your life.
Anyway I would like to get back to the nuts and bolts of this thing if you will. I think this was talked about briefly in the beginning but now that OF and others have been able to play with one I would like to know, my biggest complain about the Rev I own is the oil running away from the heat and maybe the suction drawing everything up the walls forcing me to open that mess up and mix and drag everything back to the heat. When the oil sits right there on the heater it works pretty good that inevitably does not last long. I understand that the Dart addressed this to some extent but I don't have one to see for myself really how.
So being that the ceramic oil cart is still metal I would assume the same thing may still happen but the vids on it don't seem to prove it. I seem to remember TET saying they use the the same ceramic disc as the Rev but they use 4 of them set on their sides or something. Can someone fill me in a little with this. It is obviously me biggest complaint of the Rev next to the battery life.
Thanks
Anyway I would like to get back to the nuts and bolts of this thing if you will. I think this was talked about briefly in the beginning but now that OF and others have been able to play with one I would like to know, my biggest complain about the Rev I own is the oil running away from the heat and maybe the suction drawing everything up the walls forcing me to open that mess up and mix and drag everything back to the heat. When the oil sits right there on the heater it works pretty good that inevitably does not last long. I understand that the Dart addressed this to some extent but I don't have one to see for myself really how.
So being that the ceramic oil cart is still metal I would assume the same thing may still happen but the vids on it don't seem to prove it. I seem to remember TET saying they use the the same ceramic disc as the Rev but they use 4 of them set on their sides or something. Can someone fill me in a little with this. It is obviously me biggest complaint of the Rev next to the battery life.
Thanks
I have a similar problem and I was about to squeeze tetra labs pure gold straight into the ceramic pad and hope it won't run out of the reservoir. Has anybody done this before and succeed at it? I figure since gold is very thin it could go straight in and stay there.
Also, I know Cera can hold half of a gram of gold, what's the maximum amount I can put in the revolution, does anybody know?
jambandphan03
in flavor country
I wouldn't put more than a couple of drops of PG in the Rev, if you over load it, it will leak.
Thanks j.
OF
Well-Known Member
I'll try..... Yes, the body is metal, but the part of the metal that is subject to vapor condensing on it is much smaller than on Revolution/DART. Very little seems to condense there at all and what little does collect very quickly drains back on it's own.
Inside there are four of the same rings used in Revolution/DART stacked up (plans call for two taller rings in the future. Also the same basic top plate as before. The pores in the ceramic form the reservoir for the concentrate, it holds half a gram quite easily. A big advance is not apparent from looking at it, the heater is very different. Before it was tiny and laid across the ring with the plate on top. This means it touches at places, but other places were also 'too far' away. Now the heater runs up the center of the rings, basically the entire surface is 'the ideal distance away' from the heat. This means the whole thing comes up to 'the magic temperature' at the same instant. This gives a lot better performance as you can see from the videos.
So, noting to scrape or mess with. Just turn it on and vape away.
OF
JoeKickass
Well-Known Member
Darb
Well-Known Member
I think you're looking for 3/8".
Haywood
Onward Thru the Fog
JKA: Keep in mind that the Cera EO core is reported to want about 15W of power. (Not sure as there hasn't been an official word on this, just OF's notes about the different cores that Tim has been winding for him to test). 15W is a bit much for the Ultra's single unregulated 14500 battery, even an IMR. I don't know what the persei will deliver, so that might be OK.
I just bought a two (14500) cell smoktek VV smokbox varicool "beast" (6 Amp) for use with my many LV DART cores. Not nearly as pocketable as the Ultra (or UltraLite), but I'm hoping it will provide a longer, better experience with the DART core, for those times I don't need the benefits of the tiny Ultra (pocket-ability and ruggedness). If I'm really lucky, the smokbox will have enough juice to power an EO Cera when I get one. (Though I am very happy with the DART, the Cera's ability to hold MUCH more PG, and to vape it more efficiently is a big plus. The Cera core mounted on the smokbox via an adapter is going to look pretty silly though).
I just bought a two (14500) cell smoktek VV smokbox varicool "beast" (6 Amp) for use with my many LV DART cores. Not nearly as pocketable as the Ultra (or UltraLite), but I'm hoping it will provide a longer, better experience with the DART core, for those times I don't need the benefits of the tiny Ultra (pocket-ability and ruggedness). If I'm really lucky, the smokbox will have enough juice to power an EO Cera when I get one. (Though I am very happy with the DART, the Cera's ability to hold MUCH more PG, and to vape it more efficiently is a big plus. The Cera core mounted on the smokbox via an adapter is going to look pretty silly though).
OF
Well-Known Member
OK Friends and Neighbors, I just got back from a visit to TV. I went over to get the latest upgrades done to the Beta unit (only partially successful, I'll be going back again early next week). I got a detailed update on a lot of issues and projects going on, including of course Cera production. The short of it is, IMO everything is going as you might expect and is in control. There have been a few problems that impact delivery, but I think there's no big deals going on.
First off, I got a copy of the replacement battery to test. It is the Panasonic CGR18650CH we were speculating about the other day, mine is now on charge for testing later. I'll test it later, but given it's reputation I expect it to do quite well.
The details of the delay are not really important and are even likely to change some as things get resolved in turn. In production planning such products, often a tool called 'critical path analysis' is used. You plot things out against the longest lead time part used. If we were making cars, that might be the engine block. We'd start on the left side of a huge board with the casting of the block, then draw a line to the right labeling each step (aging, machining, inspection, heat treating, and so on). From above or below this 'critical path' we add pistons, bolts, spark plugs and so on to complete the engine. Then add the body, wheels and so on in stages as the line goes right until it ends up getting fuel and being started up and driven away.
For Cera the critical path is the ceramic body. And there lies the major hang up (since having other stuff doesn't give you a shippable product without the body). Those parts are running late due to several factors related to the sole source nature and this being the initial run of parts made with the unique tooling. To get a part we need to make it using the tools, then harden it (often called 'green' at this stage, it's dry but not yet ceramic). It's then inspected (to be sure the material is correct and dimensions and other factors within limits). Then it gets machined to final shape (the bodies were getting the narrow part machined in this week after all the holes had been done and 'signed off on' (passed by Inspection) as I understand it). They got word the parts passed and are now being final fired (called several things in the industry IIRC) which will bond them into ceramics and end the ability to work with the material. This process takes nearly a week, the parts are expected roughly one week from now. Also left to be done were several steps on the mouthpiece (bevels) which seem to be slightly ahead of the body piece so they should be ready at the same time. There's really little way around vendor problems in such cases, there's only one set of tools and often only one vendor that can do the work, which is why it's called 'soul source'. Not the best situation to be in, but it's very common. It's assumed that once the production is running to schedule this will no longer be an issue. Again, not much you can do about it when the guy you're depending on has to rework some parts or has other issues. His delay becomes TV's delay and our wait.
They're making other parts of course, sub assemblies ready for final assembly once the ceramic is in. But it does no good to have heaters for carts if there's no bodies to put them in. The good news here is the Ti parts are on schedule and should be coming in starting next week so Ti units should be available at the same time as the SS ones.
Switches are another rub. The 'best switch in the world for the job' is not as available as they were lead to believe it seems. Production is scheduled for it but it's going to be a while. Rather than delay the product they've pushed up an alternative momentary switch they were planning for oil systems. Originally it was an option for later, but now it's being planned for initial shipments. This is a very nice 'dome top' button of the same size. It should work fine, and might be the best call for oils, but for herb it's going to be the same 'have to hold it on' issue as before. The plan is to ship with the momentary switch cap and then send the latching cap out when they happen (the owner keeps both). You'll end up with a free switch upgrade, just backwards. IMO no big deal, but some might differ with that 'take' and might want to consider canceling and waiting? I'd rather have the momentary switch to use than wait. I assume most guys feel the same?
There's also a lively discussion going on on what to do about the safety switch. One of the models they showed me had the slider replaced by a two piece plastic rod with magnets in them. For safe transit you'd back the battery cap off and insert the rod. After my initial 'I'd rather have an easier and faster switch when running oil (sucker gets going fast.....) it was pointed out that the momentary switch on the bottom was probably more useful......time will tell there I think. Using this switch is calling for a different assembly procedure, but that's well in process.
I also got to see some of the prototype skins. Black and clear at present. Thicker than I'd thought (nearly 1/8 inch), some serious protection there. I got a cover for just the cap part (tooling to cut the holes in the main piece aren't done), it looks very promising WRT controlling the heat. Remember I put an inch or so long tube on the herb cart for my very very long (slow) sessions so the MP would be cool? Now there's no need of that since the cap is insulated. While at first the idea didn't appeal to me, it's kinda growing on me now that I see it.
Lots of repair work to the shop itself going on still, some new doors going on, damaged wood has been replaced and needs some paint in places, new work stations set up, lots going on. As I was leaving I brought up videos by way of a joke, suggesting that Noah get cracking on some more videos once their cameras and stuff are back up and running only to be told he's already on extended leave with his family as had been planned. They got the design 'put to bed' by Christmas and he's out of the area somewhere making up for all those 18 hours days he spent at the shop. So the job of 'Heroic Toker' to star in upcoming videos is open, those who fancy themselves real champs at 'huge clouds' might want to update their resume and pass it on?
I'm sure I've missed something, but the theme is I think they're running a little late (and really less than average if you consider Cloud, the various D9 products and the like?) but noting alarming nor frankly out of line from what what an experienced guy might expect to crop up. This is real cutting edge stuff after all. One source for the best heater wire, one sole source for ceramics, little flexibility with machine shops making metal parts and so on. The fact the design depends on some very precise dimensions doesn't help yield or delivery.
I also got a kick out of the way new ideas are very much alive and thriving 'in the shop'. Cera is not the final product I'm sure.
My best guess is this time next week the late parts will be in or 'in the mail'. Assembly of final units should be fast (they're staging sub assemblies now) meaning they should be working their way down the ship list the following week? As I see it everyone is on the same page, they want it shipped ASAP, but it has to be done right. I think that's exactly what's happening. Doesn't make the waiting any easier, of course, but IMO it's happening.
And please remember, these are not official predictions, let alone promises or commitments, but my personal 'best guess' based on what I know of the process and my past experiences with such fun stuff.
Regards and best wishes to all brave (or bored) enough to have read this far.
OF
Edit: Spelling correction, "sole" for "soul" in two places. OF
First off, I got a copy of the replacement battery to test. It is the Panasonic CGR18650CH we were speculating about the other day, mine is now on charge for testing later. I'll test it later, but given it's reputation I expect it to do quite well.
The details of the delay are not really important and are even likely to change some as things get resolved in turn. In production planning such products, often a tool called 'critical path analysis' is used. You plot things out against the longest lead time part used. If we were making cars, that might be the engine block. We'd start on the left side of a huge board with the casting of the block, then draw a line to the right labeling each step (aging, machining, inspection, heat treating, and so on). From above or below this 'critical path' we add pistons, bolts, spark plugs and so on to complete the engine. Then add the body, wheels and so on in stages as the line goes right until it ends up getting fuel and being started up and driven away.
For Cera the critical path is the ceramic body. And there lies the major hang up (since having other stuff doesn't give you a shippable product without the body). Those parts are running late due to several factors related to the sole source nature and this being the initial run of parts made with the unique tooling. To get a part we need to make it using the tools, then harden it (often called 'green' at this stage, it's dry but not yet ceramic). It's then inspected (to be sure the material is correct and dimensions and other factors within limits). Then it gets machined to final shape (the bodies were getting the narrow part machined in this week after all the holes had been done and 'signed off on' (passed by Inspection) as I understand it). They got word the parts passed and are now being final fired (called several things in the industry IIRC) which will bond them into ceramics and end the ability to work with the material. This process takes nearly a week, the parts are expected roughly one week from now. Also left to be done were several steps on the mouthpiece (bevels) which seem to be slightly ahead of the body piece so they should be ready at the same time. There's really little way around vendor problems in such cases, there's only one set of tools and often only one vendor that can do the work, which is why it's called 'soul source'. Not the best situation to be in, but it's very common. It's assumed that once the production is running to schedule this will no longer be an issue. Again, not much you can do about it when the guy you're depending on has to rework some parts or has other issues. His delay becomes TV's delay and our wait.
They're making other parts of course, sub assemblies ready for final assembly once the ceramic is in. But it does no good to have heaters for carts if there's no bodies to put them in. The good news here is the Ti parts are on schedule and should be coming in starting next week so Ti units should be available at the same time as the SS ones.
Switches are another rub. The 'best switch in the world for the job' is not as available as they were lead to believe it seems. Production is scheduled for it but it's going to be a while. Rather than delay the product they've pushed up an alternative momentary switch they were planning for oil systems. Originally it was an option for later, but now it's being planned for initial shipments. This is a very nice 'dome top' button of the same size. It should work fine, and might be the best call for oils, but for herb it's going to be the same 'have to hold it on' issue as before. The plan is to ship with the momentary switch cap and then send the latching cap out when they happen (the owner keeps both). You'll end up with a free switch upgrade, just backwards. IMO no big deal, but some might differ with that 'take' and might want to consider canceling and waiting? I'd rather have the momentary switch to use than wait. I assume most guys feel the same?
There's also a lively discussion going on on what to do about the safety switch. One of the models they showed me had the slider replaced by a two piece plastic rod with magnets in them. For safe transit you'd back the battery cap off and insert the rod. After my initial 'I'd rather have an easier and faster switch when running oil (sucker gets going fast.....) it was pointed out that the momentary switch on the bottom was probably more useful......time will tell there I think. Using this switch is calling for a different assembly procedure, but that's well in process.
I also got to see some of the prototype skins. Black and clear at present. Thicker than I'd thought (nearly 1/8 inch), some serious protection there. I got a cover for just the cap part (tooling to cut the holes in the main piece aren't done), it looks very promising WRT controlling the heat. Remember I put an inch or so long tube on the herb cart for my very very long (slow) sessions so the MP would be cool? Now there's no need of that since the cap is insulated. While at first the idea didn't appeal to me, it's kinda growing on me now that I see it.
Lots of repair work to the shop itself going on still, some new doors going on, damaged wood has been replaced and needs some paint in places, new work stations set up, lots going on. As I was leaving I brought up videos by way of a joke, suggesting that Noah get cracking on some more videos once their cameras and stuff are back up and running only to be told he's already on extended leave with his family as had been planned. They got the design 'put to bed' by Christmas and he's out of the area somewhere making up for all those 18 hours days he spent at the shop. So the job of 'Heroic Toker' to star in upcoming videos is open, those who fancy themselves real champs at 'huge clouds' might want to update their resume and pass it on?
I'm sure I've missed something, but the theme is I think they're running a little late (and really less than average if you consider Cloud, the various D9 products and the like?) but noting alarming nor frankly out of line from what what an experienced guy might expect to crop up. This is real cutting edge stuff after all. One source for the best heater wire, one sole source for ceramics, little flexibility with machine shops making metal parts and so on. The fact the design depends on some very precise dimensions doesn't help yield or delivery.
I also got a kick out of the way new ideas are very much alive and thriving 'in the shop'. Cera is not the final product I'm sure.
My best guess is this time next week the late parts will be in or 'in the mail'. Assembly of final units should be fast (they're staging sub assemblies now) meaning they should be working their way down the ship list the following week? As I see it everyone is on the same page, they want it shipped ASAP, but it has to be done right. I think that's exactly what's happening. Doesn't make the waiting any easier, of course, but IMO it's happening.
And please remember, these are not official predictions, let alone promises or commitments, but my personal 'best guess' based on what I know of the process and my past experiences with such fun stuff.
Regards and best wishes to all brave (or bored) enough to have read this far.
OF
Edit: Spelling correction, "sole" for "soul" in two places. OF
We'll be very interested to see what result you get with the "Beast". A single 14500 runs out of gas in the Ultra too quickly for our little group. The LV DART is otherwise wonderful, except for a voracious appetite for the best concentrates.
The Cera EO seems like a worthy successor to which we intend to upgrade as soon as we can.
Best,
bopper
OF
Well-Known Member
I think this will fly OK. Consider Ultra (not Ultra Lite) does OK with Evolution (a 20 Watt load) and Evolution needs much longer heat cycles than Cera. My guess is you'd get something like 10 minutes of solid heat. At say 15 or 20 seconds for a killer hit, that's a lot?
IIRC G said Persei was good for 5 Amps, so it should have enough power if the voltage drop isn't too much. I bet the just now shipping Iris tops will make Cera cores sit up and shout?
OF
AirDru
Well-Known Member
OF: is the momentary switch you speak of the same as the switch on the bottom? What is the material of the momentary switch? Does it look much different?
Also? Why the debate with the safety switch? Is there something wrong with the sliding one that can be removed and put on a keychain? I don't want plastic anything on my cera.
Thanks for the update btw
Also? Why the debate with the safety switch? Is there something wrong with the sliding one that can be removed and put on a keychain? I don't want plastic anything on my cera.
Thanks for the update btw
kevin
Well-Known Member
OF
Would it be possible to have a latching safty push button on the side and monetary push button the bottom? ie.
Safty switch engaged= NO POWER LOCKED
Safty switch disengaged= POWER VIA BOTTOM BUTTON
Now engage bottom button and engage safty switch at same time= POWER LOCKED ON CONTROLLED BY SAFTY SWITCH FOR LL.
If this would work it would give use the best of both worlds, the oil guys get the monentary push button and the LL guys can lock on the power for longer warmup times.
So what do you think?
Kevin
Would it be possible to have a latching safty push button on the side and monetary push button the bottom? ie.
Safty switch engaged= NO POWER LOCKED
Safty switch disengaged= POWER VIA BOTTOM BUTTON
Now engage bottom button and engage safty switch at same time= POWER LOCKED ON CONTROLLED BY SAFTY SWITCH FOR LL.
If this would work it would give use the best of both worlds, the oil guys get the monentary push button and the LL guys can lock on the power for longer warmup times.
So what do you think?
Kevin
OF
Well-Known Member
No, it's a different sort (might be the same maker, I don't know) but physically the same size. It also differs in that the button is a dome shape, not flat. From a distance it seems about the same (both are SS buttons I think). I'm not sure what's driving the discussion on the safety switch, perhaps another Beta Tester brought it up? As it is, it's really not all that safe since it can easily get pressed in accidentally. There was some discussion when I got it about making the button removable, but that begs what happens if you loose it. Then there was a plan about setting it up with keyring storage, but as I understand that hit a snag with not everyone having key rings (although how you keep from loosing the plastic pin I don't know.
You're welcome, I hope some additional insight helps.
Good call, no it won't turn itself on if stood up or so I'm told. It falls right over.....
I couldn't get one since they didn't have any made up (because it's not sealed on the back it takes a different potting technique). Hopefully I'll get one to check out next week and can give a first had opinion then.
Yes, in fact depending on how the safety switch pans out that's where it looks headed to me. The only hang up is the latching and momentary bottom switches would require changing the end cap but I can see how a guy might like to change the bottom switch to the push button when he puts his oil cart on.
I think more options are opening up, folks will probably find configurations that suit them best. I like stuff like that.
OF
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