There's almost nothing left in the Herb after "low/medium" temp vaping with my vaporizer (E-Nano)

[WoodyWeedPecker]

Basically what I'm asking is: Is it really worth it in term of total cannabinoids extraction to vape at high temp?

I usually vape at medium temp around 6.2 or below on the Nano. It gives me nice, flavorful and thick vapors. When you vape at higher temp the vapor is thicker but personally, even at 6.2 I don't do full draws because the vapor is too dense already in the first few tokes. If you want thicker vapor and quicker extraction, high temp works well. But my point is about TOTAL cannabinoids extraction without caring for quicker extraction. Personally, I'm not a cloud chaser, I'm all the contrary, I like to sip on my bowl all night long while doing something else. Taking short sips of dense vapor every now and then with my on-demand vaporizer.
For the fun of it and for the purpose of this post I use my stem or makeshift bubbler. For those with no bubbler, you can use the stem close to the light/lamp at a particular angle. You want to see the vapor. I usually use my stem.

After vaping at 6.2, I verify there's almost no more vapor in my last draws after maybe 10-15 tokes. Then I bump it at 7.5 and wait many minutes >20min. Then I get one or 2 flimsy vapor draws.
This lead me to believe that extracting at 6.2, seem to extract almost all the cannabinoids possible. Maybe even with the benefits of less benzene and other less beneficial gases if you care about that. So in term of total cannabinoids extraction, I see no point in using higher temp beside for quicker extraction. Medium or low temp vaping completely extract the cannabinoids simply because almost each cannabinoids molecules (THC, CBD, etc) eventually reach their vaporization temperature and are fully vaporized.

My abv are medium brown not light brown (but not as dark as with my MFLB).

 

[FlyingLow]

Don't think of the number so much with the nano, it depends so much on your power supply what number you will use and mine can vary slightly location to location. I know with mine, one nice draw at 7 is combustion immediately. At 6 I can take 2-3 full draws and completely coffee brown a load.

It also depends on your material, some vape at higher or lower temps than others. Best part of it all is it sounds like you are learning all the intricacies and traits of what this device can do.



Like an old, aged and experienced hooker, the Nano knows a lot of tricks
^You can quote me on that.

 

[WoodyWeedPecker]

Don't think of the number so much with the nano, it depends so much on your power supply what number you will use and mine can vary slightly location to location. I know with mine, one nice draw at 7 is combustion immediately. At 6 I can take 2-3 full draws and completely coffee brown a load.

It also depends on your material, some vape at higher or lower temps than others. Best part of it all is it sounds like you are learning all the intricacies and traits of what this device can do.



Like an old, aged and experienced hooker, the Nano knows a lot of tricks
^You can quote me on that.

My point and question is: what is the benefit of vaping at high temp beside quicker extraction if the cannabinoids are basically fully vaporized at medium temp.

 

[MinnBobber]

My point and question is: what is the benefit of vaping at high temp beside quicker extraction if the cannabinoids are basically fully vaporized at medium temp.

...........................................................
Only SOME of the cannabinoids are fully vaporized at medium temp. SOME are not vaporized until higher temps are reached---where the ABV comes out almost coffee grounds brown

 

[WoodyWeedPecker]

...........................................................
Only SOME of the cannabinoids are fully vaporized at medium temp. SOME are not vaporized until higher temps are reached---where the ABV comes out almost coffee grounds brown

I know about that.

Here's a table of the various vaporization temp s(similar tables/study exist for flavonoids, terpenes, etc):
https://owensmithe.files.wordpress.com/2014/06/volcano-vapourizer-temperature-chart_-4-22_thumb.jpg

After vaping fully at 6.2, there's almost no more vapor even if I temp step at higher temp.

Put yourself in my position.

1) I vape at a temp around 6.2.
2) I step up the temp in my vape (around 7.5 on the E-Nano)
3) There's almost no vapor. Very flimsy vapor.
4) I don't see any benefit of temp stepping at such high temp. I could temp-step because you tell me something about something but there's NO MORE VAPOR!!

Have you ever tried to time step the way I did it. That is taking many draws at medium temp until there's no more vapor then go to higher temp and realize there's almost no vapor!

 

[Hippie Dickie]

my experience is what @MinnBobber describes ... i normally vape at 390F but i do temp stepping some times and each 10F increase gets additional vapor production - past 420F is pointless. having a temperature display makes it easier to get repeatable results.

 

[WoodyWeedPecker]

my experience is what @MinnBobber describes ... i normally vape at 390F but i do temp stepping some times and each 10F increase gets additional vapor production - past 420F is pointless. having a temperature display makes it easier to get repeatable results.

Do you temp step before there's absolutely no more vapor at 390F?

It's very important to have no more vapor left at 390F to understand my point and what I do. If that's not the case, it just means you didn't fully vaporize your herb at 390F (on your vaporizer) and increasing 10F helps you get a quicker extraction to finish the bowl. If you would have taken a few more draws at 390F, it would have been almost full vaporized already and temp stepping would be useless for full extraction (it could still provide quicker extraction).

 

[Hippie Dickie]

well, it is very thin at 390F and then with the 10F increase it is, not thick, but noticeably more vapor - i look through the vapor in the stem at the red oven LED to gauge the amount of vapor. the temp is controlled so draws at 390F only get those cannabinoids. but there are tradeoffs - i don't temp step above 390F that often.

 

[WoodyWeedPecker]

well, it is very thin at 390F and then with the 10F increase it is, not thick, but noticeably more vapor - i look through the vapor in the stem at the red oven LED to gauge the amount of vapor. the temp is controlled so draws at 390F only get those cannabinoids. but there are tradeoffs - i don't temp step above 390F that often.

Thank you for your post. I really want to know other's people experience with temp stepping the way I did (that is by fully extracting at med temp before increasing temp). I also get one or 2 flimsy draws when I bump up the temp.

 

[MinnBobber]

If you would have taken a few more draws at 390F, it would have been almost full vaporized already and temp stepping would be useless for full extraction (it could still provide quicker extraction).

.................................................................
I temp step 95% of the time and my bud is nowhere near fully extracted at 390. I almost always finish at 435 to "fully extract".
And guess what, that is not even really fully extracted as it makes nice edibles.

I've vaped until no vapor at 410 and stopped there---come back the next day and bump to 435 and definitely goodies are there.

?? do you have a vapor light, that you exhale toward? Without this, I would not see a lot of vapor.
I can exhale away from it and not really see any vapor and same breath, exhale toward light and it shows a lot of vapor.
You might not be seeing vapor that is really there

 

[WoodyWeedPecker]

.................................................................
I temp step 95% of the time and my bud is nowhere near fully extracted at 390.

Is there still vapor at 390? For this to work, you must fully extract it at 390F. Absolutely no vapor must be present at 390F (well, almost).

My light is fine, I always use the perfect angle and anyway as I just said there's no more vapor at 390F under the light and still almost no vapor when I temp step. There's like 1 or 2 flimsy draws. It's like almost all the cannabinoids are already extracted at med temp (6.2). Don't get me wrong, I want to temp step, but there's no more vapor after taking my 10-15 draws at 6.2 (med temp). It's only because there's no more vapor that temp stepping seems pointless for me (although it works great for quicker extraction which is not something I seek usually).

 

[hoptimum]

Temp setting is just one of several factors that determine the heat of the air passing through the herb, which is what really matters.

 

[TeeJay1952]

I leave nano at 6.2. Slow with many stirs. Picking out bones (stems) as I go till there is a dry powder left. All powder is collected for cookies. Trim? Cookies, Vape scrape? Cookies. Cookie crumbs? Well if there is a pile I pop em into mouth. Full utilization is the target. I do not think one size fits all when it comes to consumption. There are different effects available and you are the Doctor.

 

[nondarb]

Unless your nano runs particularly hot (entirely feasible) you aren't able to fully extract at any one temp most any would consider low.

www.fuckcombustion.com/threads/vaporization-temperature-dependent-selection-of-effects.1637

I'm particularly sensitive to the higher temp actives, my only lower temp concerns are terpenes. I pretty much have go higher to feel medicated, my ABV is typically a light coffee color (and yes, there are still some actives).

I think it chalks up to a different strokes deal.

 

[WoodyWeedPecker]

Unless your nano runs particularly hot (entirely feasible) you aren't able to fully extract at any one temp most any would consider low.

I wouldn't consider 6.2 so low. At 5.2, I still get vapor but the ABV end up light brown yellowish. At around 6.2, my abv are medium brown but not as dark as when I was using my MFLB. At 7.5 or more, the ABV do turn darker but there's no vapor left in the ABV. It was already fully extracted at 6.2.

I just want to add that fully extracting cannabinoids at med temp probably doesn't work well with vaporizers with no full control of their temp (nano, ud with vvps, lsv, etc). Because you have to pin-point the right temperature (with some wiggle room of course). If you only have the choice of 5 different temperature for example. It's possible temp 4 is below vaporization point of the cannabinoids (or at the edge of it) while temp 5 is well above and thus temp stepping from 4 to 5 would produce a lot of vapor even if there was no vapor left at temp 4.

Also vaporizers which change the temp according to draw rate (pax, etc) probably doesn't work well for this.

 

[nondarb]

I wouldn't consider 6.2 so low. At 5.2, I still get vapor but the ABV end up light brown yellowish. At around 6.2, my abv are medium brown but not as dark as when I was using my MFLB. At 7.5 or more, the ABV do turn darker but there's no vapor left in the ABV. It was already fully extracted at 6.2.

All nanos and power supplies run differently. I combust with one cord over 7.25, another can dance up to 8. Its a dimmer, not temperature control. Your houses wiring, outlets, your nano, and any surge protectors ect you may be running through are all variables in your dimmers settings.

I just want to add that fully extracting cannabinoids at med temp

You can't get a complete extraction below the actives extraction temp, no matter how long you leave it on. The link I provided discusses the various temperatures various actives are released at, many require high heat.

 

[mitchgo61]

I know about that.


1) I vape at a temp around 6.2.
2) I step up the temp in my vape (around 7.5 on the E-Nano)
3) There's almost no vapor. Very flimsy vapor.
4) I don't see any benefit of temp stepping at such high temp. I could temp-step because you tell me something about something but there's NO MORE VAPOR!!!

Interesting. Somewhat diametrically opposed to my Nano experiences. I almost always start at 7. I need to go to 9ish to hit full extraction. This is with the basket about an inch from the end of the stem. At almost any point, I can dump, re-grind, and get more hits at 9 or 10.

I've combusted as low as 8 if packed densely, but I can also go to 10 and not combust most of the time.

Full extraction in the Nano, for me, usually results in a very very dark abv, and can't be achieved south of 9. (The Nano is the vape I use to finish extraction on anything I can't quite polish off in a lower temp vape, like the FF1.)

 

[WoodyWeedPecker]

Interesting. Somewhat diametrically opposed to my Nano experiences. I almost always start at 7.

You can do what I do also with the LSV, Da Buddah, Grasshopper, etc. Most full convection vaporizer with full temp control.

Your Nano runs a bit cold (you may have to check that out) but it doesn't matter. When you start at 7. How many draws do you take? At the end of your draws at 7 do you verify that there's no vapor at all left?

 

[mitchgo61]

You can do what I do also with the LSV, Da Buddah, Grasshopper, etc. Most full convection vaporizer with full temp control.

Your Nano runs a bit cold (you may have to check that out) but it doesn't matter. When you start at 7. How many draws do you take? At the end of your draws at 7 do you verify that there's no vapor at all left?

Yeah it runs hot enough for me! I can do half a dozen hits at 7 before moving up. The vapor starts getting weak at that point, and I move up to 8ish.

 

[Tweak]

Temp setting is just one of several factors that determine the heat of the air passing through the herb, which is what really matters.

This ^. There are so many mitigating factors that effect temperature. Even then, boiling points change with pressure, so looking at a chart of numbers is worthless.

@WoodyWeedPecker I have the same experience. I try to temperature step but rarely do I find vapor above 7 on my Nano (or any of my Vapes). I start as low as I can visually pull decent clouds, which results in my ABV to be lightly brown.

 

[max]

All nanos and power supplies run differently. I combust with one cord over 7.25, another can dance up to 8. Its a dimmer, not temperature control. Your houses wiring, outlets, your nano, and any surge protectors ect you may be running through are all variables in your dimmers settings.

True. Completely aside from any differences due to what's in your house, comparing one e-nano to another, at a particular temp setting, is really a waste of time, and that's without factoring in draw speed, which can vary quite a bit from person to another, and does affect the vaping temp. We have two e-nanos at our house, and my wife and I both agree that the older one runs cooler than the other at the same setting. Every e-nano, along with the individual using it, should be considered a unique equation. You have to judge the appropriate temp range by your experience, and not someone else's, even if it's the same unit.

 

[EverythingsHazy]

Unless you are taking only a certain number of timed hits with regulated draw speed, I feel like you'll be able to get most of the actives out of well ground herb on several settings. It'll just take longer to fully extract them at lower temps. This is because even before they hit their boiling temp, they still evaporate. It's like bringing water to 70C or 100C (boiling point). Eventually, both pots off water will be empty. The 70C one will just take longer. Sure some chemicals won't be affected by lower temps, but I think a lot of what we go for, is.

 

[davesmith]

time also plays a factor.....

 

[WoodyWeedPecker]

Unless you are taking only a certain number of timed hits with regulated draw speed, I feel like you'll be able to get most of the actives out of well ground herb on several settings. It'll just take longer to fully extract them at lower temps. This is because even before they hit their boiling temp, they still evaporate. It's like bringing water to 70C or 100C (boiling point). Eventually, both pots off water will be empty. The 70C one will just take longer. Sure some chemicals won't be affected by lower temps, but I think a lot of what we go for, is.

^^This

Good analogy.

If you put a pot of water on your stove at mid temp, it will completely vaporize the water if you wait long enough, just like herb. Put it at high temp it will vaporize faster but not more thoroughly.

 

[nondarb]

^^This

Good analogy.

If you put a pot of water on your stove at mid temp, it will completely vaporize the water if you wait long enough, just like herb. Put it at high temp it will vaporize faster but not more thoroughly.

Its not water. Look into the boiling points linked above, this is a factual matter. It simply doesn't work that way.