The Wim Hof Method Thread

[ginolicious]

Awesome! I hope you like it. I would recommend doing the breathing before the shower, though, as it can have some effects which cause the cold water to trigger a release of endocannabinoids, as well as reducing the pain receptors, which makes the cold more tolerable. Also, be extremely careful doing the breathing IN the shower, as you can faint.

I've never tried it on shrooms, but on Cannabis, it can blast you to space. Especially the portion where you inhale and pressurize your torso, at the end. It can feel like you just blast off into what I would assume is similar to certain psychedelic headspaces.


TBH, even just listening to him talk about his practices, or giving a tour of his land/home, is relaxing, while meditating. He seems to be one of the few people who have achieved a great deal of inner peace and happiness, and who also cares to share his success and well being with the world. I always find myself smiling while listening to him speak. It's a quality that is quite rare in people.

Funny you say that, I can agree with that. But I have a huge struggle when trying to meditate. I cannot slow my mind. When I talk to people I talk about 5 different things. Even to my girl we are having a serious conversation and then I add something else into it. I am always so busy always moving, mind always racing, its never one subject either which sucks. I have never been able to slow it down and have tried several times. It's bad. Having one conversation with 5 topics in one. Sometimes hard for people to keep up with me. I even speak very very fast to keep up with my mind, especially in court so I can get all my points out before my brain moves on to the next one and I forget.

 

[EverythingsHazy]

The vibe you speak of emanates through this thread as well. Thanks for paving the way.

I'm very glad to hear that, and it's my pleasure! If anyone in here benefits from this thread, I'll be happy that I posted it.

Funny you say that, I can agree with that. But I have a huge struggle when trying to meditate. I cannot slow my mind. When I talk to people I talk about 5 different things. Even to my girl we are having a serious conversation and then I add something else into it. I am always so busy always moving, mind always racing, its never one subject either which sucks. I have never been able to slow it down and have tried several times. It's bad. Having one conversation with 5 topics in one. Sometimes hard for people to keep up with me. I even speak very very fast to keep up with my mind, especially in court so I can get all my points out before my brain moves on to the next one and I forget.

I could've written that reply. My mind runs at a very fast pace, andmy speech tends to follow, to keep up. I am working on slowing down. Meditation is very challenging for me. It's easier after an ice bath or cold shower, and easier after a few rounds of WHM breathing, for me, though. I try to focus on feeling my entire body starting at my individual toes, up to the top of my head. Very slowly. I also mix in slow breathing, box breathing, or 4-7-8 breathing. The later puts me deeper into the meditative state.

 

[mephisto]

A question for fellow Hof huffers. Yesterday I did 3 rounds of breathwork at the start of my morning, typical day. At the "squeeze into the head" part of my last round I experienced the most profound headrush I have ever felt. The intensity was incredible and alarming. Better than any nitrous oxide hit, or externally induced euphoria. The afterglow was amazing as well. Question is: Is/was this potentially harmful? I am rather well versed in oxygen deprivation, but I did not expect this response to breathwork. I was unable to reproduce the effect with this morning's
3 round session. If I stroke out from this exercise, at least the ride up will be enjoyable. Thanks for any response, I fear I will be forever chasing the dragon with this experience. Breathe!

 

[EverythingsHazy]

A question for fellow Hof huffers. Yesterday I did 3 rounds of breathwork at the start of my morning, typical day. At the "squeeze into the head" part of my last round I experienced the most profound headrush I have ever felt. The intensity was incredible and alarming. Better than any nitrous oxide hit, or externally induced euphoria. The afterglow was amazing as well. Question is: Is/was this potentially harmful? I am rather well versed in oxygen deprivation, but I did not expect this response to breathwork. I was unable to reproduce the effect with this morning's
3 round session. If I stroke out from this exercise, at least the ride up will be enjoyable. Thanks for any response, I fear I will be forever chasing the dragon with this experience. Breathe!

To be honest, that's my favorite part, too. however, there are a few things to be careful with. I have to ask my doctor how long you can do the pressurizing part, too. I feel like at a certain point, I'm close to a psychedelic "breakthrough".

Potential Risks
If you have heart disease, don’t use the Valsalva maneuver unless your doctor tells you to. It’s rare, but the technique could cause chest pain and other heartbeat problems.

Sometimes the maneuver causes a rise in pressure behind the eyes. Don’t use it if you have retinopathy -- damage to the retina in the eye -- or have an implanted lens.

Side effects are rare, but talk to your doctor if you have concerns or questions about how to perform it correctly.

https://www.webmd.com/heart-disease/atrial-fibrillation/valsalva-maneuver

 

[mephisto]

Do you get that massive response every time? I have become a full on obsessive in pursuit of this rush again. Unable to reproduce with 4 round session after mountain biking this morning.

 

[EverythingsHazy]

Some of you might enjoy listening to this while doing the breath work. After a while, you can't tell if that high pitched whine is from the music or from your head, as it will eventually be coming from both, if you do enough breath work. It also seems to help me do my exhaled retentions for longer. *Note: I'm not claiming that the title or description are accurate. I just like the sounds, sometimes.

Do you get that massive response every time? I have become a full on obsessive in pursuit of this rush again. Unable to reproduce with 4 round session after mountain biking this morning.

Not every time, and usually after the 3rd, 4th, or 5th, rounds. When I start to feel a some sort of physical sensations during the exhale hold, the pressurizing part usually has a stronger effect.

I've also noticed that meditation, breath work, and even Cannanis, all seem to have far stronger effects on me, when I am fasted for >14 hours.

How many inhalations do you do for the first part? I don't get as much of a rush if i do 20-30 as I do with 40 breaths.

That euphoric rush is definitely one of the better feelings I've experienced. I have never tried psychedelics, but sometimes, it feels like my mind gets put into a different place, even if its just for a few seconds, and I have a feeling that if I did more rounds, I might be able to reach a new headspace. I haven't tried more than six though. Once, when I was having some anxiety that made me feel like I couldn't fully expand my lungs for a deep inhale, even though I was breathing just fine. I did 6 rounds, and went straight into an ice bath.

Another time, I was outside enjoying the weather, and I sat on a bench to do a few rounds, and at one point after the exhale, I got such a powerful rush that I very breifly forgot where I was, why I was outside, and what I was doing there. I remembered within seconds, but it was wild. For those few seconds. it felt at least as strong as a Cannabis buzz, and my eyesight was thrown out of wack. Had I been biking, driving, or standing, I would've likely fallen, so be very careful with that.

Also, if you do the WHM breathing while you are already stoned, there's a good chance that you'll have a crazy rush.

 

[mephisto]

I have been sticking to 3 rounds of 30. Today was the first foray into 4 rounds of 30. I will go for 3 rounds of 40 with my morning session. The pervading calm that envelopes me following a session is mind blowing. I have a hyper aware monkey brain and the removal of all background mental chatter after a session feels extremely healing. There is a similarity in
headspace with regard to my experiences with psychedelics, primarily psilocybin. Unlike psilocybin, the ego loss from breathwork is quite welcome and comforting. On mushrooms, getting lost tends to be very disconcerting.

 

[Haze Mister]

Thanks for posting this. I started doing this this morning and it's great!

 

[hinglemccringleberry]

How are you all doing 4-5 rounds? Thats nuts I barely have the energy to do 1 round per day. And lately I've been doing that round during my shower, basically I take a 2 minute long cold shower and hyperventilate the whole time (it's winter and that shit is COLD right now). It works out to probably 80 breaths give or take. This by itself has huge benefits. Everything from joint pain to energy levels at work are improved.
Some days I will do 1 real round of slow breaths (around 40) and it takes alot of energy, I just don't have it in me to do much more than that per day.

 

[EverythingsHazy]

I have been sticking to 3 rounds of 30. Today was the first foray into 4 rounds of 30. I will go for 3 rounds of 40 with my morning session. The pervading calm that envelopes me following a session is mind blowing. I have a hyper aware monkey brain and the removal of all background mental chatter after a session feels extremely healing.

I feel the same way. It's like my senses are heightened, and I can perform at peak levels, both physically and cognitively, albeit for a short period of time. The calmness lasts for several hours, though, especially if followed by at least 10 minutes of silent meditation.

I start to notice that static and then high pitched whine on my third round, but if I push to 5+ rounds, and do 40 breaths each, I can sometimes get full body tingles, and some very powerful sensations.

Nothing has beaten the 5 x 40 + 10 min Outdoor Garbage Can Ice Bath + 10 min Outdoor Meditation in the Sun, forom the summer, for me. I'm excited to push myself this winter, though, I think the water in the pipes is already as cold as my coldest ice baths, and since it moves, it strips heat away very efficiently, though I do prefer to relax in a bath, with chunks of ice floating around. It's only going to get colder for another 2 months. I plan on doing some more outdoor, cold bike riding and meditation.

There is a similarity in headspace with regard to my experiences with psychedelics, primarily psilocybin. Unlike psilocybin, the ego loss from breathwork is quite welcome and comforting. On mushrooms, getting lost tends to be very disconcerting.

Do you usually have such a profound experience with the WHM breathing, or is that a rare thing? I've forgotten where I was for several seconds, in a trippy headspace, but I've never "broken through". I feel like if I pushed to 10+ rounds, I might be able to, though I might not be doing myself any good, and may be doing myself some harm. Too much of anything can be bad, so idk.

Thanks for posting this. I started doing this this morning and it's great!

You're welcome! I hope it helps you in some way! Keep us updated! It's fun to see a whole group participating to different degrees.....>.> degrees. cold...

How are you all doing 4-5 rounds? Thats nuts I barely have the energy to do 1 round per day. And lately I've been doing that round during my shower, basically I take a 2 minute long cold shower and hyperventilate the whole time (it's winter and that shit is COLD right now). It works out to probably 80 breaths give or take. This by itself has huge benefits. Everything from joint pain to energy levels at work are improved.
Some days I will do 1 real round of slow breaths (around 40) and it takes alot of energy, I just don't have it in me to do much more than that per day.

According to Wim and most doctors, you should probably avoid doing the breathwork in the shower, itself. Do the breathing beforehand, so that you don't faint mid shower/bath, and either hit your head or drown, or both. It's not unlikely that you may pass out without any warning, during various parts of the breath work. I'm not trying to be a know it all. Just looking out for you. Some people have died from doing breath work in water.

 

[hinglemccringleberry]

@EverythingsHazy Ive been doing it for years and have enjoyed the benefits of what I do. I don't know what type of freaks of nature you guys are, but for me, there is no avoiding heavy breathing when I first go into the cold regardless of how many rounds are done just before going into the cold. Soon after, I acclimate and it becomes less uncomfortable. It just requires getting over that hump of major discomfort at the beginning. I thought it was like that for everyone. Oh well. If an accident like you describe was going to happen it would've happened years ago, right after starting this journey. I know the limits.

 

[EverythingsHazy]

@EverythingsHazy Ive been doing it for years and have enjoyed the benefits of what I do. I don't know what type of freaks of nature you guys are, but for me, there is no avoiding heavy breathing when I first go into the cold regardless of how many rounds are done just before going into the cold. Soon after, I acclimate and it becomes less uncomfortable. It just requires getting over that hump of major discomfort at the beginning. I thought it was like that for everyone. Oh well. If an accident like you describe was going to happen it would've happened years ago, right after starting this journey. I know the limits.

Just letting you know, so you're aware and can make your own educated choices.

If it's just the breathing that being in freezing cold water makes you do, that may be different than the hyperventilation breaths that I do as part of the WHM breath work, where I can definitely see myself passing out, if I were to do it for more than a few minutes. I thought you were just straight hyperventilating the entire time, without ever being able to calm down. It can definitely take a while to calm yourself down to a normal breathing rate, when you enter very cold water.

The initial sharp inhale that you get from the cold water is something that I like. It's not "pleasant", but I know I shocked my body. I also try to quickly soak my entire face, to make sure I've activated the mammalian diving reflex, for all of those benefits.

Glad to hear that you're getting benefits.

 

[guyonthecouch]

A question for fellow Hof huffers. Yesterday I did 3 rounds of breathwork at the start of my morning, typical day. At the "squeeze into the head" part of my last round I experienced the most profound headrush I have ever felt. The intensity was incredible and alarming. Better than any nitrous oxide hit, or externally induced euphoria. The afterglow was amazing as well. Question is: Is/was this potentially harmful? I am rather well versed in oxygen deprivation, but I did not expect this response to breathwork. I was unable to reproduce the effect with this morning's
3 round session. If I stroke out from this exercise, at least the ride up will be enjoyable. Thanks for any response, I fear I will be forever chasing the dragon with this experience. Breathe!

Never chase the elusive dragon.. sit and wait patiently.. let it come to you

"There is no try" ..or some mumbo jumbo like that

 

[Haze Mister]

A question for fellow Hof huffers. Yesterday I did 3 rounds of breathwork at the start of my morning, typical day. At the "squeeze into the head" part of my last round I experienced the most profound headrush I have ever felt. The intensity was incredible and alarming. Better than any nitrous oxide hit, or externally induced euphoria. The afterglow was amazing as well. Question is: Is/was this potentially harmful? I am rather well versed in oxygen deprivation, but I did not expect this response to breathwork. I was unable to reproduce the effect with this morning's
3 round session. If I stroke out from this exercise, at least the ride up will be enjoyable. Thanks for any response, I fear I will be forever chasing the dragon with this experience. Breathe!

I think it is the opposite of harmful and I don't believe it is oxygen deprivation. It is the theshold to what's called "enlightenment", as far as I can tell, and trying to reproduce or "chase" it can be harmful!

 

[cptofnthng]

ive done a beginners class a year Back. i Loved it,but i cant replicate it at home, i cant pack 10 Kilo of ice everyday.im Just using cold showers. skipped the breathing too. still feel i benefit from that.

 

[vapirtoo]

Hey folks just got to say that East Indian mystics and Tibetan monks have been doing this
forever. I had an old book called, The science of breath by, Rajah whoever? (I forget) that
stressed the importance of breath control. It forced me to fully embrace abdominal breathing which most
top flight athletes employ( look at their heaving bellies and relative calm chests after violent exercise.
The Tibetans used to sit on a frozen lake and dry their soaked tunics as a breathing initiation.
The Coney Island polar bears used to say, If you turn bright red in the freezing surf you're
one of us, If you turn blue you're through. This is really ancient knowledge.

 

[Haze Mister]

Abdominal breathing must be done correctly and the term "abdominal" shouldn't really be used. It is important to inflate your back as well as your front. Both Tai Chi/Chi Gung and yoga teachers will confirm this. If you don't breathe into your back your can create back problems later...

I am still doing the basic 2 rounds of 30 (more or less) deep breaths in the morning followed by maximum pushups then cold/hot/cold shower..... This stuff is LIFE! it is really helping me fix some chronic issues with my body!

 

[EverythingsHazy]

Hey folks just got to say that East Indian mystics and Tibetan monks have been doing this
forever. I had an old book called, The science of breath by, Rajah whoever? (I forget) that
stressed the importance of breath control. It forced me to fully embrace abdominal breathing which most
top flight athletes employ( look at their heaving bellies and relative calm chests after violent exercise.
The Tibetans used to sit on a frozen lake and dry their soaked tunics as a breathing initiation.
The Coney Island polar bears used to say, If you turn bright red in the freezing surf you're
one of us, If you turn blue you're through. This is really ancient knowledge.

Yea, Wim doesn't claim to have invented the breathing techniques. He just combines the breath work with cold exposure and some yoga poses, and allows scientists to run tests on him to figure out what is going on.

I am still doing the basic 2 rounds of 30 (more or less) deep breaths in the morning followed by maximum pushups then cold/hot/cold shower..... This stuff is LIFE! it is really helping me fix some chronic issues with my body!

It really does make a big difference in my day. It's amazing what simple breathing techniques can do.

 

[EverythingsHazy]

I just finished Wim's book. I enjoyed it. There was nothing really revolutionary in there, but it's a good way to get started with the practices, and he goes over the surface level of a good chunk of the popular studies which have been done on him and other practitioners.

I have been doing 3 rounds of 40 breaths, and it takes between 14-17 minutes, but I want to try going back up to 5 rounds again, soon, for a "deeper" experience.

I didn't take any hot showers in May, and took a minimum of 1 x 5 min cold shower every morning, and sometimes 2 - 3 times in a day, if I worked out.

 

[EverythingsHazy]

Still going strong!

 

[snaffle]

I've been reading the book Breath by James Nestor, which has been great. I just got to the chapter where he talks about the Wim Hof method and Tummo (the Tibetan Buddhist breathing & meditation practice which he says Wim Hof's practices are good simplifications of). It's super interesting - the whole book is; I thoroughly recommend it, a great mix of science and useful advice, and very readable.

I'd heard of Wim Hof for years, but had never really given it much notice - it sounds a bit too weird and improbable to be true, from the outside. Reading "this person can do things medical doctors thought impossible, and can teach you to do the same" on the Internet generally reads to me as "whatever, I'm ignoring this quack". But I see now that in Wim Hof's case it's not that at all. I haven't tried his method yet, but I'd like to try it soon, it sounds great. Would maybe be a nice thing to do before meditation in the morning.

@EverythingsHazy, would you still recommend the videos you posted in the first post of this thread as the best introduction to doing the Wim Hof method?

 

[EverythingsHazy]

I've been reading the book Breath by James Nestor, which has been great. I just got to the chapter where he talks about the Wim Hof method and Tummo (the Tibetan Buddhist breathing & meditation practice which he says Wim Hof's practices are good simplifications of). It's super interesting - the whole book is; I thoroughly recommend it, a great mix of science and useful advice, and very readable.

I'd heard of Wim Hof for years, but had never really given it much notice - it sounds a bit too weird and improbable to be true, from the outside. Reading "this person can do things medical doctors thought impossible, and can teach you to do the same" on the Internet generally reads to me as "whatever, I'm ignoring this quack". But I see now that in Wim Hof's case it's not that at all. I haven't tried his method yet, but I'd like to try it soon, it sounds great. Would maybe be a nice thing to do before meditation in the morning.

@EverythingsHazy, would you still recommend the videos you posted in the first post of this thread as the best introduction to doing the Wim Hof method?

That book is on my list! You just reminded me to order it.

I agree about usually being turned off by improbably medical claims online. I'm the same way. "Doctors hate her." = "This is about to be some scam."

That said, I have noticed some benefits from breath work for a few years, so I decided to give the WHM a shot, and I feel like it's pretty significantly benefited my life. A lot of people think that breath work is mostly a mindset thing, but if you look into the biology of respiration, you'll see that we can influence some key chemical processes in our bodies, which have pretty immediate effects. For one, the hyperventilation phase tends to spike adrenaline, which has a bunch of effects on the body.

I'm not sure if there are any newer, better intro videos out, now, but those which I posted should provide you with more than enough info to get started with the practice, including some of the science behind how it works.

I like to do 3-4 rounds of WH breathing, then jump into a 5 minute cold shower, and then do a 15 minute silent mediation, before I start my days. The breathing primes your body for the cold exposure, and the combo of the two brings a lot of alertness and clarity to the mind, which helps with the meditation, in my experience.

 

[DillGaff]

"Brain over body"-A study on the willful regulation of autonomic function during cold exposure​

Otto Muzik 1, Kaice T Reilly 2, Vaibhav A Diwadkar 3
Affiliations expand

• PMID: 29438845
• DOI: 10.1016/j.neuroimage.2018.01.067

Abstract​

The defense of body temperature against environmental thermal challenges is a core objective of homeostatic regulation governed by the autonomic nervous system. Autonomous mechanisms of thermoregulation are only weakly affected by top-down modulation, allowing only transient tolerance for extreme cold. There is however, anecdotal evidence of a unique set of individuals known for extreme cold tolerance. Here we present a case study of a 57-year old Dutch national, Wim Hof, the so-called "Iceman", with the ability to withstand frequent prolonged periods of extreme cold exposure based on the practice of a self-developed technique involving a combination of forced breathing, cold exposure and meditation (collectively referred to as the Wim Hof Method, henceforth "WHM"). The relative contributions of the brain and the periphery that endow the Iceman with these capabilities is unknown. To investigate this, we conducted multi-modal imaging assessments of the brain and the periphery using a combination of fMRI and PET/CT imaging. Thermoregulatory defense was evoked by subjecting the Iceman (and a cohort of typical controls) to a fMRI paradigm designed to generate periods of mild hypothermia interspersed by periods of return to basal core body temperature. fMRI was acquired in two separate sessions: in a typical (passive) state and following the practice of WHM. In addition, the Iceman also underwent a whole body PET/CT imaging session using the tracers C11-hydroxyephedrine (HED) and 18F-fluorodeoxyglucose (FDG) during both thermoneutral and prolonged mild cold conditions. This acquisition allowed us to determine changes in sympathetic innervation (HED) and glucose consumption (FDG) in muscle and fat tissues in the absence of the WHM. fMRI analyses indicated that the WHM activates primary control centers for descending pain/cold stimuli modulation in the periaqueductal gray (PAG), possibly initiating a stress-induced analgesic response. In addition, the WHM also engages higher-order cortical areas (left anterior and right middle insula) that are uniquely associated with self-reflection, and which facilitate both internal focus and sustained attention in the presence of averse (e.g. cold) external stimuli. However, the activation of brown adipose tissue (BAT) was unremarkable. Finally, forceful respiration results in increased sympathetic innervation and glucose consumption in intercostal muscle, generating heat that dissipates to lung tissue and warms circulating blood in the pulmonary capillaries. Our results provide compelling evidence for the primacy of the brain (CNS) rather than the body (peripheral mechanisms) in mediating the Iceman's responses to cold exposure. They also suggest the compelling possibility that the WHM might allow practitioners to develop higher level of control over key components of the autonomous system, with implications for lifestyle interventions that might ameliorate multiple clinical syndromes.
Keywords: CNS thermoregulation; Cold exposure; FDG PET; Functional MRI; Hydroxyephedrine PET; Periaqueductal gray; Stress-induced analgesia; Wim Hof method.
Copyright © 2018 Elsevier Inc. All rights reserved.

 

[snaffle]

Well, I've been doing the Wim Hof method breathing daily (with some exceptions over the festive break), and have been really enjoying it. The first few sessions were semi psychedelic, which was a fun and pleasant surprise, but that seems to have passed now. But the more important thing is that I feel great after doing it, and I'm sure it's doing my body some good. I've done some cold exposure showers, and I like them, but the breathing is more my focus for now.

I want to learn more about the method and what it's doing physiologically. @EverythingsHazy you mentioned reading Wim's new(ish) book, and that it was a good primer and introduction, but it sounded like it didn't go into a lot of depth. Having watched some of Wim's content on youtube, while he's clearly super likeable and a great instructor, I'm not entirely convinced in his understanding and communication of the science - him talking about "alkalinity of the body" for example sounds like a bit of a red flag for pseudoscience to me. From James Nestor's book it's clear this sort of stuff is very much at the cutting edge of science, and there's a lot that isn't known yet. But clearly it works, and works well, for a bunch of things. Any reading recommendations very welcome - I'm not a big fan of relying on youtube for learning.

Also, does anyone here have experience of mixing Wim Hof method stuff with strength workouts? I ask as I saw a short youtube video on Wim's channel where someone does the fast breathing in & out, then rather than relax for 1-1.5 minutes, just launches into pushups with held breath, and allegedly can do double the amount of them in this state. I could imagine doing the final set of a workout routine like this, potentially, to get some extra muscle damage to promote more supercompensation, but I could also easily imagine that doing double the reps you could "normally" do could lead to slower and worse recovery and significantly increase the chances of overtraining. One for cautious experimentation, perhaps...

 

[snaffle]

I want to learn more about the method and what it's doing physiologically. @EverythingsHazy you mentioned reading Wim's new(ish) book, and that it was a good primer and introduction, but it sounded like it didn't go into a lot of depth. Having watched some of Wim's content on youtube, while he's clearly super likeable and a great instructor, I'm not entirely convinced in his understanding and communication of the science - him talking about "alkalinity of the body" for example sounds like a bit of a red flag for pseudoscience to me. From James Nestor's book it's clear this sort of stuff is very much at the cutting edge of science, and there's a lot that isn't known yet. But clearly it works, and works well, for a bunch of things. Any reading recommendations very welcome - I'm not a big fan of relying on youtube for learning.

To partly answer my own questions here, I recently watched the video at the end of @EverythingsHazy's original post here, of a doctor examining some of the physiological effects, and it was really good, I definitely recommend it. That doctor was also friends with Scott Carney, and interviewed him for the video and clearly thought he had a good understanding of the basic biology going on, and he wrote a book (partly) about the Wim Hof method called What Doesn't Kill Us that sounds fun, I may well give that a read next.