The VXL EVO vs. The Sublimator - Adapt a Bong edition. Compared

[weedemon]

TLDR: My buddy and I sat down and tried to compare the 2. In the end we decided that while both heavy hitters, they are 2 different beasts. One hits like a one hitter and it is the new king of that arena as far as I am concerned. (the sub) the other hits longer, tastier with a more thorough extraction while using less herbs. (the EVO) The EVO got the final nod.

Who we are:

I like to think most of you know me pretty well. I don't smoke anymore. I have been a vapor convert for 2-3 years I think? Maybe a longer. Been vapin (while still smoking too) since 2006 and had tried vapes as early as 2001.

My friend : No stranger to vapor, He's been with me on my journey through most of my vapes. He prefers smoking as he's not willing to invest the money into a device. He smokes cigs too so I can kinda see why he doesn't see the benefits from vapor as opposed to smoking. he's still smoking anyways! Tried to convert him, but It just never took. He has a great knack for spotting differences though. I love getting together to do a comparison with him. He has owned a mflb and an omicron. He also borrowed my volcano, SSV and Underdog vapes before.

Moving onward! Here are the 2 vaporizers compared!


Sublimator(adapt a bong edition w/o the auto shutoff) Owned it since June and been my daily driver till the EVO arrived)

pros:
- very good extraction at a very quick rate.

- Very tasty

- Produces "sublimate". My new favourite concentrate! (Solventless extract with "none" of the particulate... very minimal anyways!)

- Feels very well built and sturdy. I have had no reliability issues with this one.

- Gives me the biggest clouds of any unit I have ever tried!

- Can also be used to take dabs! (small to large size dabs. but no "take a dab from the slab" business!)

- Hits best with a dry tube (pro/con? you decide)

cons:
- Seems to go through herbs faster than I do with the evo.

- Requires a larger load of herbs to give me the flavour and clouds that I seek.

- I feel the sub is a lot less portable, as it takes a long time to cool down (and heat back up) before you can take it places. I wish I had a case for it like I have coming for the evo. Then the sub would be better equipped for travel. that case would have to be pretty heat proof though!

- Dimmer switch feels cheaply built and gets in the way during use, because of an awkward placement distance on the cord. A bit of tape to cover the dial and keep it where you set it is a good idea too. I've had my dial move from dragging on the floor. Imo, the dial should be on the handle.

- The unit is a tad dangerous ( I have 1 permanent scar and so does my gf (she doesn't even blaze!)) Not to be used around pets that could knock it over either. Also required me to give a safety lesson or just operate the sub for them. (I'm talking about new users.) This vape is serious business and not for the careless. I consider myself a pretty cautious person and I still got hurt. I'd say this is this vapes biggest con.


My routine:
I have my switch dialed into it's sweet spot marked off with a sharpie (it's one setting that I use for all herbs and I found it's point where I get max vapor without compromising taste too much.) I turn it on, put some tape over the dial so it stays put and let it warm up for a solid 30-45 min before I go to use it. (Apollo and atomizer together in the stand. This is NOT recommended as it's a safety hazard. I made a coil to further secure my atomizer and have not had any troubles. but do this at your own risk) *pics of this are in the sub thread (http://fuckcombustion.com/threads/the-sublimator-beyond-vaporisation.9708/page-96#post-429315)

I use 2 screens. One super fine in the bottom, and a larger one about 1-2 cm above the fine that the herb sits on. I load a moderately large bowl I'd guess at anywhere from 0.15-0.3+ grams per go. I get 1 to 3 tasty hits (depending on the quality of the herbs and their dryness) from this with stirring between hits. then I dump it out.The abv is a golden brown, lighter than the EVO's. The taste is great and the size of the clouds are unparalleled. I find I go through my herbs faster with this vape than any other. I could turn the temp up, but then taste is sacrificed and I don't like that. it also becomes harsher and harsher the hotter you go. you can go to the verge of combustion if you wanted to and this would increase efficiency.

There is also a method where you turn the temp up and take smaller hits that are pooched after one hit every time. I tried this method and it worked fairly well, but found I much preferred the more tasty and wasteful method of lower temp, bigger loads. turning the temp up after and finishing the extraction is also an option but the taste is gone at this point... and I don't have tome for all that. if you adjust the temp up you have to wait a good 5 min for it to take effect.


Cloud EVO (Had an original ticker back in the day. Loved it. Had this new one about 2 weeks now. We are best friends.)

pros:
- Uses a glass pathway to isolate the air from any internal parts of the unit.

- Very tasty hits given with great clouds, possibly the tastiest I have ever had. (not as large as the sub's by comparison though!)

- Also feels very well built. It is light, but strong.

- Detachable power cord! Can even be preheated, unplugged and passed around for a min or 2. I don't really like this though, I leave the cord in.

- The lights offer a great feedback tool. (I wish the sub could indicate to me it's on besides heat output.)

- The turbine hydratube is really nice. It's small and great for travel. It's my fanciest piece of glass now. Hit's really well, I love my turbine effect! but at home, I like my larger 18 inch tall (el'cheapo 420 special) tube as it seems to "milk" better. A volume thing I am sure.

- Heats up a lot quicker than the sub can!

- Very thorough extraction of the herbs with no need to temp adjustment (I go at noon)

- Water filtration seems to improve the experience. It's a bit dry otherwise.


cons:
- The top half of the unit gets too warm to comfortably hold. after it's been on for a full cycle or longer.

- The bottom is a bit awkward to hold because of the power cord and dial being down there in the way of where I want to grab it. Holding it so the cord points away from your hand, and the dial in towards your palm seems to be the best way to hold it I found..

- requires cleaning more often than the sub does. The elb's shine when they are not all gunked up so I clean em (all 10 of em every 3-4 days) it's really easy.


My routine:
I dial my EVO in at noon and let it warm up. Once the light is green (2-3 min I think?) you can start, but I wait a few more min yet. (probably 5-8 min)I load the ELB about 50% full. With my old cloud ticker, I filled the elb right up! 80-100% full. A 50% load of the ELB by comparison to what I load in the sub is about half the amount I would put in my Sub. I get lighter clouds than the sub gives me, but I find these are tastier than the subs as well. I also get many more than the 1 to 3 rips before I have to dump he bowl. I'd say I get more like 8-12. I dump it out when it's not giving me anymore flavour. It's still giving off thinner vapor however, it just tastes done at this point so I stop.The ABV is a medium to dark coffee grinds colour by now, and it's like powder to dump out.

 

[weedemon]

The comparison:
My friend told me that he finds the sub far too complicated and tricky to use. He went on further to say he would only hit the sub if I "serve" him using the sub. It's just a bit too tricky for him to maneuver and operate... easily at least. The evo by comparison... he was able to use it without my supervision to ensure he didn't burn himself, my house or the dog. He also said he liked the flavour of the evo better. (I was surprised as I thought he would like the sub better as it gives crazier hits.)

I like to think of the sub as a "one hitter". If I was in a rush to leave the house and the sub was already on and ready to go. It would get me high faster. I would be able to take 2 or 3 bowls and be done in a matter of a minute or two. The evo by comparison would take longer to get the herbs extracted. I find I get 8 - 12 rips before the contents of the elb is spent. It probably takes me about 5-8 min to use up an elb as opposed to the 15-30 seconds it takes to use up the herbs in the sub.

In summary:
I like to think of the sub as a one or 2 hitter. You pack a bowl and hit it to have the load spent after 1 or 2 hits. There is good flavour and the vapor feels thick. The thickest of any vape I have personally used. The abv comes out lighter than it does in my evo's elb. If you have the sub preheated it gets the job done faster than the evo can. But if it's not your gonna be waiting a while. I want to buy the torch version of the subs heater now... the "end of days" vape

The EVO is used to give off about 8-12 hits per elb at a 50% load. You can do this at one heat setting, with stirring every 2nd or 3rd hit. The abv comes out darker than the sub's. As for the vapes, we both prefer the evo over the sub but for different reasons. For my friend it's the simplicity of the device and as far as he is concerned the clouds were both good. (he's a smoker and prefers it. I've tried to get him onto vapor but for him, it takes too long, costs too much and he just prefers the smoke (quickness and type of high) as he also smokes cigs. always nagging me about how long it takes for my vape by comparison) He can operate the sub by himself, but he said he doesn't like the effort required to not burn anything/one.

For me, I give the evo the edge because I can easily extract the most actives out of my herbs with the least effort. With no temp adjustment I can get vapor that is tastier, albeit thinner than the subs. I like that the elb can be shared with a few people before you need to load more herbs. For a group situation that is more economical.

On a final side note I'd like to add I feel the evo gets me "higher" with the same amount of herbs. It takes the abv to a more depleted state and I get so many more hits from it. with the sub you get 1 or 2 huge rips and the body can only absorb so much in one go...

I would also love to hear fellow members who own both to chime in with their experiences!

 

[Dr. Plutonious]

I wonder if the E-Nailator is going to start getting some more attention now, since it fills even more of a niche role and a lot of heavy hitter flower vapes are popping up.

Anyways, GREAT comparisons. Very well thought out.

 

[SD_haze]

Awesome write-up!

Thought:
Have you tried if the "less dense vapor than sub" thing holds up when you go to a higher temperature?

I tend to use my VapeXhale as as a one to two hitter with a high temp setting and a low ELB fill (like 20%)

 

[Mister G]

Thanks for the great write up, I'm sure A LOT of people will benefit. I'm a UFO sub user myself, and was thinking about picking up an Apollo when the next generation or so comes out, like the quartz version, but now after reading this, I would seriously consider an EVO. Both are rather pricey, so I'd only get one or the other and the safety of the EVO is appealing to me as main differentiator. Sub seems to keep innovating as well, so who knows what will be around when I'm ready to upgrade.

I consider Sub and EVO in a specific category of "heavy hitting, high extraction" vapes, are there others that belong with them?

 

[weedemon]

for me personally I find no need for the e-nail. I don't do enough concentrates anymore. the dabs that I do fit in the sub just fine. (I love my sublimate though! I dab that now.) I have done dabs in the sub before, but i figure I may as well be using my swing instead. Those of you who do dabs more than flowers may think differently.

I have hit my evo on 2 o clock and 3 also. I got combustion once, so i backed down. I did notice the thickness of vapor was higher yes. Even saying that, i still think the sub is the king if you want thickness though. I swear i'm smoking when I see the vapor that the sub makes. but the abv comes out lighter than the evo's! go figure. Crazy thermal mass here. I should try again with only 20% fill like you suggested though.

with my old ticker the routine was 12 to start and then 3 to finish. but I don't really find that needed anymore. one temp seems to get the herbs very spent looking.

I can't think of any other vapes I'd lump up against the evo or sub atm... the herbaliser might be a contender... we will see. I think the closest things that compares to these 2 vapes are doing dabs. oh and the old cloud of course too! but I like the EVO better now.

 

[Dr. Plutonious]

I have hit my evo on 2 o clock and 3 also. I got combustion once, so i backed down. I did notice the thickness of vapor was higher yes. Even saying that, i still think the sub is the king if you want thickness though. I swear i'm smoking when I see the vapor that the sub makes. but the abv comes out lighter than the evo's! go figure. Crazy thermal mass here. I should try again with only 20% fill like you suggested though.

I can agree with that. My only flower experience on the sub was actually with the E-Nailator as well and I thought I was combusting when I was hitting, but it was just a thick, thick fucking rip. The owner had just backed it off of dabbing range too to so it practically got the bowl done in a hit (plus I was forced to do the whole bowl in a hit, WOOOOOO, good times ).

If I pick up a sublimator I'll probably go with the E-Nailator personally. I already have the HI, the EVO, and soon the Lotus for flowers. E-Nailator would probably match my line up better.

 

[hassan]

Great comparison bro - appreciated the read!

I particularly like the point you make regarding the body being unable to absorb more than a couple Sub hits at a time - even though it's the smoothest vapour you'll ever inhale, I think one's anatomy recognizes what it can and cannot take - and you won't be able to even inhale the full hit once it's hit that limit - you'll just start coughing up a lung as soon as it touches your throat.

 

[CG420]

Very spot on with the wire problem on the sub and evo. I agree that if you take the Sub with 0.15 hits (use a precision scale) while turning it up til about 40 watts and you will be feeling the heaviness hits. I am agreeing with you also that you will go through herbs fairly faster if you are definitely not the conservative type or are fairly a beginner/rather new to be less insulting (some people here are critical on this forum so I am just putting this out as respect and not to title others or to suggest I am a great vaporist from the planet Saturn. If you are new to vaporizing and also might not have the funds to purchase a watt meter then you are left guessing for the correct heat. I think that is definitely the cons about the sub. It should be incorporated into the handle for easy readability and usage. Something about the name makes holding it feel like the moment you drop the apollo right off from the stand to the launchpad and then having to exhale just to prepare for what's down yonder. Yeah maybe not a good thing to have around anywhere that it could fall off or get tangled/tripped otherwise some very bad accidents can happen.

 

[TheSkipper]

I want to add to this thread but the wattage on my sub maxes out at 33. So lately I have just been using the EVO but this morning I busted out the sub.

At 33 it still gets the job done but not as well as it could at 40+. With some dust like 1/32 teaspoon (I use a 1/8 baking teaspoon for dosing) got a nice milky hit that gave me a buzz so I tried some wax. WHITE TUBE It worked No residue left over. I am surprised! So the sub did a nice job but I still feel at 33 watz its lacking.

Then I thought EVO lets see how you handle the same amounts.

I started with a dab at max. It tastes so good from this vape, and my mobius was milky. Then same amount of "dust" placed in a mini elb at 230. I like my abv dark. MORE vapor then the sub for sure. Hit took longer and smacked me in the face.

I definitely think the EVO extracts better. The hit is just more full.

That said the EVO does not give you sublimate. I LOVE sublimate. Its good stuff. But you pay a price to make it and that is a less full hit. The sub still gets you there. One thing I do love about the Sub is its smoothness. I use t dry because it too smooth through water.

The EVO punches you in the face like Rocky, in a good way. Way more similar to taking a bong rip, but way tastier than a smoky bong rip

Those who read this should keep in mind that MY Sublimator is not working 100%
Overall I like my EVO more but I wish it produced large amounts of magical dabbable oil while doinhg everything else it does

As far as efficiency goes I think the EVO wins. Both can milk up a piece with the same amount of material (no matter how small) but I always find myself using more with the Sub than with the EVO

Sorry this was so long, I did the experiment then immediately found myself on FC. I was not planning on posting this because I really should be studying...



EDIT: Later today I started experimenting with using the EVO through the subs atomizer. Hot it seemed to keep hits smooth. Cold I have not tested. My main goal in this is to be able to produce sublimate. Does anyone think this might work?

 

[Monsoon]

- I feel the sub is a lot less portable, as it takes a long time to cool down (and heat back up) before you can take it places. I wish I had a case for it like I have coming for the evo. Then the sub would be better equipped for travel. that case would have to be pretty heat proof though!

For travel I use an inside-out silicone oven mitt so I can transport it while it's still hot. The mitt has room for the Apollo, downstem and the E-Nail too.

 

[oldiebutgoodie]

. . .
- The bottom is a bit awkward to hold because of the power cord and dial being down there in the way of where I want to grab it. Holding it so the cord points away from your hand, and the dial in towards your palm seems to be the best way to hold it I found...

I felt the same awkwardness with the grip (along with the cord, my two main gripes). Just fwiw . . . I'm using two grips, mostly preferring the second below. With the first I hold the back of the unit with a pinky below the plug and three fingers above it, and my thumb on the front between the switch and knob. That keeps my hand away from the top half; I have the wristbands there for a buffer. This grip requires a little more attention, and with my HydraLine when I tilt the unit/tube the grip forces me to bend my wrist a little, too.

The second grip I'm using is very similar, except all my fingers on the backside are above the plug, and on the front I rest my thumb on the wristbands just above the knob inset. (I use 3 bands, fit perfectly between the top of the inset and bottom of the logo; don't want to hide that logo!) So I'm gripping up to about 1.5" above the middle caution mark. This provides a very solid grip and is very comfortable. The downside is when the unit is set to 12+ and left on for 30+ minutes, after which the top-half heat makes even the wristbands a little uncomfortable. But I have yet to have a session last more than 20 minutes, so this hasn't been an issue. I'll use this grip most of the time, the other grip above for when the unit gets extra hot.

 

[wisherly]

Sorry this was so long, I did the experiment then immediately found myself on FC. I was not planning on posting this because I really should be studying...

Damn, you just reminded me I'm in the middle of final exams and have no business being on FC. Fascinating discussion though. I'm looking forward to getting one of these two soon, unless your experiment works. Then I may have to get both.

With that combination set-up, are you loading the sub or one of the ELBs in the EVO?

 

[Monsoon]

For the grip issues on the EVO you might get some luck playing around with some Sugru. It's also safe to 180C so it should be okay to use on the top section as well.

 

[weedemon]

For the grip issues on the EVO you might get some luck playing around with some Sugru. It's also safe to 180C so it should be okay to use on the top section as well.

good god! TY for telling me about Sugru! that this looks awesome imagine rolling it out into thin-ish rolls and then wrapping a bunch of em around the evo in a fashion similar to the inhalaters "ribs"?

I ordered a fitted case too, so I don't want to be adding to the size a lot, but I could see the use for that product all over my house! flashlight handle (like the ski handle in the video on their site) for example.

I should probably get more of those bands or similar to put on it. too bad that nasa thermogel plating stuff was too expensive.

@oldiebutgoodie

thank you for the tips on your gripping techniques. I tried those out, but interestingly enough I am actually doing something very similar now as the holding it backwards things just didn't feel natural. I have 2 fingers above, one below (ring finger) and the pinky tucked underneath with the weight of the unit partially resting on that pinky. my thumb is between the power switch and the temp knob.

 

[shredhead]

Ok so I've used the OG cloud exstensively and I own a UFO kit sublimator. I can see why the EVO is winning in the herb category. It's perfectly designed to extract herbs, I feel the sublimator is more geared towards concentrate users. If I had the money for a EVO or Apollo it would be a tough choice. But I'm more of a herb user so I may steer towards the EVO. I love my sublimator, but the Apollo does need some work (hopefully the new version will be better). Until the electric version of the sublimator is a little more thought out I'll keep torchin away. And maybe one day have an EVO by my side. I sure miss those nights of ELB after ELB. Mind boggling.

 

[Mister G]

Ok so I've used the OG cloud exstensively and I own a UFO kit sublimator. I can see why the EVO is winning in the herb category. It's perfectly designed to extract herbs, I feel the sublimator is more geared towards concentrate users. If I had the money for a EVO or Apollo it would be a tough choice. But I'm more of a herb user so I may steer towards the EVO. I love my sublimator, but the Apollo does need some work (hopefully the new version will be better). Until the electric version of the sublimator is a little more thought out I'll keep torchin away. And maybe one day have an EVO by my side. I sure miss those nights of ELB after ELB. Mind boggling.

All I can say is Ditto. Amen.

 

[Tweak]

TY for telling me about Sugru! that this looks awesome

How to make your own Sugru Substitue

It's basically just silicone and corn starch.

Isn't that what the wristbands are made of anyway? Just silicone.

 

[Vapodudule]

So @weedemon did you try to put some sublimate on a the EVO?

 

[weedemon]

I haven't actually to be honest my prefered way to use my sublimate is my plain old Ti swing doing dabs in a my mini rig. because of this I have not done a ton of dabs in my sub either. dont get me wrong. the subdoes it well, but the Ti does it better.

 

[Been Vapin]

Still rocking that EVO?

 

[Dr. Plutonious]

I concur!

Love to hear your thought on this subject now that you've got a couple months with the EVO under your belt.

 

[grokit]

I've been consuming sublimate with one of these lately.

 

[stickstones]

why? do you find it different than running it back through the Sub? I've got other options as well, but never used them. maybe i should run some sublimate through the Baker and see...

 

[jdee]

If sublimation if going from a solid to a gas (bypassing the liquid phase), or in this case from flowers to vapor, can we not just call it what it really is... vaporization? Why do we insist on using this word, which is usually reserved for talking about dry ice how it goes from a solid to a gas without becoming a liquid first? Calling reclaim 'sublimate' seems strange...what am I missing?