Discontinued The RBT Milaana (unregulated single 18650)
- Thread starter RastaBuddhaTao
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GTAVaper
Well-Known Member
Sorry guys, you got to go full sized admission with this one 
Either Batman or Superman .....take your pick for the evening.
Although one nice thing about the Batman outfit is that the Milaana can fit on the utility belt and be inconspicuous there.
Otherwise, squeeze your 6' 2" 350lb frame into your "Underoos" of choice and then either attach the red towel or the black towel for the evening
How's that image seared into your mind working for you?
But don't worry......that's not me.....I'm at least 100lbs lighter.....
But that image wouldn't have been so entertaining
Can't wait to stick my Milaana on the old utility belt
Oh.....as for couch cushion forts......in the heyday of late 70's sectionals - you could build a cushion castle with abutments and everything
Lots of room to hang your cape in there
Oh yeah, back to the Milaana...........can't wait to get mine!
Either Batman or Superman .....take your pick for the evening.
Although one nice thing about the Batman outfit is that the Milaana can fit on the utility belt and be inconspicuous there.
Otherwise, squeeze your 6' 2" 350lb frame into your "Underoos" of choice and then either attach the red towel or the black towel for the evening
How's that image seared into your mind working for you?
But don't worry......that's not me.....I'm at least 100lbs lighter.....
But that image wouldn't have been so entertaining
Can't wait to stick my Milaana on the old utility belt
Oh.....as for couch cushion forts......in the heyday of late 70's sectionals - you could build a cushion castle with abutments and everything
Lots of room to hang your cape in there
Oh yeah, back to the Milaana...........can't wait to get mine!
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KeroZen
Chronic vapaholic
Actually, I would have to disagree with you there (...) If I am wrong in my thinking then I would like to know from someone with a greater knowledge base of battery performance who can explain why this reasoning would be incorrect
Damn! I knew I shouldn't have taken such a shortcut and made a two-lines post. Apparently you misunderstood my point, and no, your reasoning doesn't seem to be incorrect. I think I mostly agree with what you said but with a few caveats:
- These sites are fine but often have few data points, depending on which one you read you can find the 25R slightly better or slightly worse than the HE4 (the truth is, they are pretty close in terms of performance)
- On Dampfakkus.de (as well as another site I forgot) the 25R is tested superior to the HE4 (see http://dampfakkus.de/akkutest.php?id=569 @ 5A) and this kinda contradicts the reports here
- That site has no datapoint for the newer 25R (green), only for the older (blue)
- It's also lacking some of the newer 30A cells of possible interest (ex: HB4/HB6)
- The HE2 and HE4 are indeed different and one should prefer the newer HE4 but I group them as they have the same specs on the label and the differences are small in practice
- There are so many fake cells that you never know if even reputable testers sometimes don't get B-grade cells repackaged to look like A-grade from the real manufacturer
As of today I fully agree with his recommendations: all 18650 cells listed here are compatible with the Zi/Mi excepted the Panasonic/Sanyo and the Samsung 30Q (*) If you get anything else it will be *at best* equal to one of these cells but in most cases it will be of lower quality, and in nearly all cases it will not be what's stated on the (rewraped) label.
(*) The 30Q is indeed borderline and will illustrate our first misunderstanding well: it should work in practice, not only because it's under-rated but because the amp draw on the Mi isn't that high, RBT used a good safety margin to help cope with cell performance degradation over time. As the cell ages its internal resistance will rise, lowering its discharge rate (C rating) So if you already are operating at the listed continuous discharge with a new cell, over time you will exceed what the cell can safely output and enter the red zone. The closer to the limit you operate the more strain you put on the cell and it will sag more and more, it's a vicious cycle.
I don't recommend trying to get larger capacity cells as the results will be mixed: it will stay in the usable range for longer, so you will get somewhat more run time per charge. But the larger the capacity the lower the C rating and the higher the internal resistance. The cell will sag way more under load and you will spend all that usable range at a lower voltage. You'll get more seconds of use but they will always be a lower power, the device will last longer but will be weaker during that time.
So my initial post was not about using higher capacity / lower discharge rate cells, it was about the inverse. I was thinking about the HB2/HB4/HB6/VTC3/VTC4 on the picture above. All these cells have a higher continuous discharge than the currently recommended 25R/HE2/HE4 at the cost of a shorter run time. Under a given load they will stay a shorter time in the usable range of interest but they will indeed have less sag (lower internal resistance) and thus the device will operate at a higher power for less time.
Those will works yes, and they might give more ooomph, but it's a matter of trade-offs and my remark was more: we don't need more than 20A continuous discharge as it's already overkill and includes a good safety margin. It's overkill for the Zi, and sorry I don't have a Mi to give you the figures you requested but I know it should draw even less amps and it operates at a lower voltage (the Zi is regulated around 5V)
To illustrate that point have a look at the HB2 5A graph here: http://dampfakkus.de/akkutest.php?id=375 and note how the HB2 reaches the 3.6V point more than twice as fast as the reference 25R (btw the HB2 is only listed as 22A on this site for some reason....)
On this one we can see the HE4 performing marginally worse than the 25R: http://dampfakkus.de/akkutest.php?id=569
Now a few controversial data points, here we can see the HE4 performing better than the VTC5 that you considered, under a heavy load (20A). Note how all these cells almost instantly reach 3.6V (*under load*, not the voltage reading you get when you remove them) http://dampfakkus.de/highamps/569-at 20A.png
Here we have a comparison of the HE2 and HE4 under same heavy load and they peform practically the same: http://dampfakkus.de/highamps/569-vs HE2 at 20.png
Here we see the HE2 performing better than the 25R @ 5A : http://dampfakkus.de/akkutest.php?id=507 when the HE4 was slightly worse above. Tbh I think these 3 cells perform almost the same.
This one illustrates the point you were making about getting higher voltage through the usable range, where we see the 20R performing better for the first part of the curve compared to the 25R but then ultimately reaching the 3.6V point faster due to the lower capacity: http://dampfakkus.de/akkutest.php?id=411
Then this graph is interesting as it shows the HE2 performing better than the VTC5 at first under a pulsed heavy load (closer to the Mi reality) but then the VTC5 lower internal resistance translates pretty fast to less sag and more performance: http://dampfakkus.de/highamps/523-vs lg+samsung.png
Finally I ran a little comparison using his tool and the better cell for his data set seems to be what he calls VTC5A, the normal VTC5 being about the same as the HE2/25R: http://dampfakkus.de/akkuvergleich.php?akku1=569&akku2=610&akku3=490&akku4=523&akku5=&akku6=&a=5
To conclude, I think the 25R is the cell being the most counterfeit. At some point Sony halted production so most VTC's around were also fake. Now provided you get genuine ones, yes the VTC5 are surely a good bet, or any of the 30A cells if you want more power at the expense of run time. I've been using VapPower 2500mAh 35A cells with my Zion and they peform as good as the HE4 I got afterwards (I think VapPower are rebadged HE2's and clearly only 20A continuous, but the HE2 is also slightly under-rated and closer to 25A in some tests...)
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GTAVaper
Well-Known Member
Awesome read, thoroughly enjoyable!
I just finished reading your exception statement regarding the 30Q in addition to the Sanyo/Panosonic GA's and was sub-vocally saying, "but, but...." .......and then saw your (*) follow up and then flipped my eyes upwards and saw, damn - he actually referenced that for further discussion (just didn't recognize it for what it was when I first read through those stars .....as it was highly unexpected)...... and then had a chuckle
As I said, highly enjoyable - but even if the Zion is regulated at 5v and is utilizing the current draw capacity of the HE4 at a full rated 20A (as this would only entail a requirement of a regulated 2.5v per cell) then this provides 100W to the heater.
If you are looking for similar performance with one cell at 3.6v then you are requiring more than a 20A continuous draw for an unregulated circuit that is depending on the one 185650 to push the heater to the same 100w potential output.
If you have a Zion that is regulated.....how much power is going to that heater?
Because with the Milaana being one cell dependent.....if you start going above 20A draw ......this is where the VTC5 would begin to shine in utilizing the usable portion of its capacity in a way that a lower current rated battery couldn't since the voltage sag is too great.
I would thoroughly enjoy reading another response as informative as the previous one
But not tonight....that was too much work - I actually had to click on links and everything
I just finished reading your exception statement regarding the 30Q in addition to the Sanyo/Panosonic GA's and was sub-vocally saying, "but, but...." .......and then saw your (*) follow up and then flipped my eyes upwards and saw, damn - he actually referenced that for further discussion (just didn't recognize it for what it was when I first read through those stars
.....as it was highly unexpected)...... and then had a chuckle As I said, highly enjoyable - but even if the Zion is regulated at 5v and is utilizing the current draw capacity of the HE4 at a full rated 20A (as this would only entail a requirement of a regulated 2.5v per cell) then this provides 100W to the heater.
If you are looking for similar performance with one cell at 3.6v then you are requiring more than a 20A continuous draw for an unregulated circuit that is depending on the one 185650 to push the heater to the same 100w potential output.
If you have a Zion that is regulated.....how much power is going to that heater?
Because with the Milaana being one cell dependent.....if you start going above 20A draw ......this is where the VTC5 would begin to shine in utilizing the usable portion of its capacity in a way that a lower current rated battery couldn't since the voltage sag is too great.
I would thoroughly enjoy reading another response as informative as the previous one
But not tonight....that was too much work - I actually had to click on links and everything
SteamfunQ
Well-Known Member
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Whoops my bad i thought the milaana was going to have a usb port? I must have missed the usb port getting removed
MrPeanut
Zion, stealing faces since 2015
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Whoops my bad i thought the milaana was going to have a usb port? I must have missed the usb port getting removed
That might have been a design suggestion by someone. I do not believe it was planned for Milaana. I know it will not in the foreseeable future.
WakeAndVape
VapeLife X
I have to admit when I saw a post from MrPeanut I thought it was some type of let's 'celebrate the shipping message'...I have to relax!
@SteamfunQ maybe it's because it was originally referred to as the usb?
@nondarb *opens trench coat in shady ally with noisy cats and smokey sewer lids* I got capes right here see...take yer pick before the coppers come and arrest me for the cape caper I pulled last night.
Going to Denver for green christmas! Hope the milaana will go on her first domestic airline flight without TSA thinking it's something else!
But then again I have dabbed on a flight...Apparently I'm an idiot...or so i've been told.
@SteamfunQ maybe it's because it was originally referred to as the usb?
@nondarb *opens trench coat in shady ally with noisy cats and smokey sewer lids* I got capes right here see...take yer pick before the coppers come and arrest me for the cape caper I pulled last night.
Going to Denver for green christmas! Hope the milaana will go on her first domestic airline flight without TSA thinking it's something else!
But then again I have dabbed on a flight...Apparently I'm an idiot...or so i've been told.
AJS
Calm Consistency
1 day, 13 hours and 26 minutes, is how long you must wait until the lack of relaxation can begin. That is the time, ohhhhh boy the time, of which RBT has officially taken all our money and ran off to the world of April Fools.
WakeAndVape
VapeLife X
Now that would be shit snacks forreal! Not @Shit Snacks...but literally little foil wrapped peices of turds...some containing corn, others containing jelly shit squirts...in a valentine's box; appropriately...because it would symbolize what my love of vaporizers has earned me...lol
I'd be highly doubtful of that...the only thing that concerns me is the 80% thing...it would however be a big 'vape caper'.
I want it asap...but if it took longer than expected, I'd be happy just being in the first batch with some freebies.
SteamfunQ
Well-Known Member
Yup good call i think thats where my confusion began lol (it doesnt take much tehehe)
Oh well i dont think i'll be any less excited to get my grubby mits on a milaana!
AJS
Calm Consistency
This speaks to my soul. Please write a book.
Milaana somethin somethin.
Looking at my MFLB trying to transform it into a Milaana...it's not working. I feel like I'm looking at it hard enough, so...not really sure why it's not working.
AJS
Calm Consistency
First person to strap a cape to their Milaana and take a rip wins.
...while wearing a cape, of course.
Alan Partridge
Smell my cheese
When I first started posting here, the autocorrect would turn my posts into diatribes telling the world of my new found love of gaping.
Copacetic
Somewhere North of The Wall
Bastard, I just bellowed with laughter in a crowded bus, and now everyone thinks I'm the bus looney.
Plenty of elblow room now though, so maybe I should thank you.
This arrived today having spent about a month in Luxembourg:
When it was originally shipped, tracking showed that it went straight to Germany and never moved again. We'd given up hope on it, but it surprised me by showing up this morning. The funny part of the story is that the package also contained Jessica. Both of these have been used for their original purpose, Jessica quite thoroughly, yet they sailed through US Customs, presumably German Customs, and finally Canadian Customs—all in a box addressed to Pakalolo! I guess none of the agents were familiar with Hawaiian, because "pakalolo" is the word for cannabis.
Here's my entire RBT family. Jessica is on the left, then next is Little Bugger (the alpha prototype for the Milaana), the beta Milaana, and Pauahi.
As you can see, the Milaana is somewhat larger than Little Bugger. I'll measure the difference later. Speaking of comparative sizes, here's a shot to give people an idea:
Here's my entire RBT family. Jessica is on the left, then next is Little Bugger (the alpha prototype for the Milaana), the beta Milaana, and Pauahi.
AJS
Calm Consistency
Oh dear god. Amazing.This arrived today having spent about a month in Luxembourg:
When it was originally shipped, tracking showed that it went straight to Germany and never moved again. We'd given up hope on it, but it surprised me by showing up this morning. The funny part of the story is that the package also contained Jessica. Both of these have been used for their original purpose, Jessica quite thoroughly, yet they sailed through US Customs, presumably German Customs, and finally Canadian Customs—all in a box addressed to Pakalolo! I guess none of the agents were familiar with Hawaiian, because "pakalolo" is the word for cannabis.
Here's my entire RBT family. Jessica is on the left, then next is Little Bugger (the alpha prototype for the Milaana), the beta Milaana, and Pauahi.
As you can see, the Milaana is somewhat larger than Little Bugger. I'll measure the difference later. Speaking of comparative sizes, here's a shot to give people an idea:
Thank you for that. Much needed.
Never seen that alpha before, neat looking unit.
Oh, and the fact it was addressed to Pakalolo is hilarious.
Copacetic
Somewhere North of The Wall
Shit Snacks
Milaana. Lana. LANA. LANAAAA! (TM2/TP80/BAK/FW9)
This arrived today having spent about a month in Luxembourg:
When it was originally shipped, tracking showed that it went straight to Germany and never moved again. We'd given up hope on it, but it surprised me by showing up this morning. The funny part of the story is that the package also contained Jessica. Both of these have been used for their original purpose, Jessica quite thoroughly, yet they sailed through US Customs, presumably German Customs, and finally Canadian Customs—all in a box addressed to Pakalolo! I guess none of the agents were familiar with Hawaiian, because "pakalolo" is the word for cannabis.
Here's my entire RBT family. Jessica is on the left, then next is Little Bugger (the alpha prototype for the Milaana), the beta Milaana, and Pauahi.
As you can see, the Milaana is somewhat larger than Little Bugger. I'll measure the difference later. Speaking of comparative sizes, here's a shot to give people an idea:
Finally! Glad they made it to you safe and sound...
And I remember that alpha! RBT's second 14mm unit if I recall correctly, no trigger but outfitted with that voltage meter. Your feedback was part of the determination that 18mm was better, even if it made it a bit bigger (as does the trigger, another feature that was quickly deemed necessary)
Looking forward to your thoughts on the (near) final model!
WakeAndVape
VapeLife X
little maggie
Well-Known Member
After ordering the first week this was available and waiting patiently, I just realized that I have no idea what unregulated means. Could someone explain this in simple language or point me to an explanation.
WakeAndVape
VapeLife X
The Zion is regulated with a temprature knob that controls the heat.
The milaana's heat is determined by how much battery is left in the unit and how long you have the battery engaged...hope that makes sense?
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