Discontinued The RBT Milaana (unregulated single 18650)

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KeroZen

Chronic vapaholic
I'm not brushing anything off, to the contrary. I keep hammering about Lithium-Ion safety in about every thread where portable vapes using them in removable form are discussed. We even have one if not more dedicated threads about Lithium-Ion batteries and their dangers.

Yes the Milaana is an advanced device because it's strictly equivalent to a so-called "mechanical mod" in the e-cig world. The circuit is as simple as possible and thus lacks any kind of protection, and it's a considerably high power device (yet quite average to low by modern e-cig standards)

Mech-mods are not for novice users as you indeed need to know your Ohm's law. But in the e-cig world they can change (and rebuild at will) their attachments, so the heater resistance is variable. Here we have a fixed and calibrated resistance and the user doesn't really need to know anything about it as the manufacturer knows and recommend what batteries are suitable or not for that particular load.

You have to know your Lithium-Ion cells though, but this is valid for any device with removable cells. You need to know at least what a CDR means (or just buy exactly the 8 models currently on the market that are compatible, and only 6 are recommended) You need to be aware of counterfeits and bogus claims on the wraps of most unscrupulous brands. But again if you stick to the recommendations and buy from trusted sources, no problem.

You also need to know that these cells are not meant to be used like we do. Manufacturers sell them to be assembled as part of larger packs with proper BMS circuitry. They are not meant to be swapped constantly as by design they are dangerous and easy to short: the wrap around them is super thin and can be pierced easily and when they don't have a nipple (i.e. the flat-tops we use) the negative and positive are only a few millimeters away at their tip. This is why it's recommended to put the positive side down inside the device, as the copper tab could grind the shrinkwrap and create a short circuit otherwise.

Finally the device has no low-voltage protection, so you can damage your cells by discharging them too much. But the IMR/INR chemistries we use just die gracefully when you do that. It will likely damage the cell internally but it shouldn't create a dangerous situation. Now if you keep using the cell after it has been damaged it's another story...

Ah and there's no protection against pressing the trigger continuously, but the devices are designed (and were tested before production and in the field during some mishaps) to not create much of a hazard. The wood can char but the heater is enclosed in glass. And the process is self-limiting as the cell will produce less and less current as it discharges.

PS: and don't get me started on the lack of MOSFET for the switching...
 

Bravesst

Full Steam Ahead
Manufacturer
As far as safety goes...

We must defer to the experts @KeroZen

I don't believe the Milaana is inherently unsafe. It can be if misused. That reminds me of a lot of things, driving, smoking, even riding a bike could kill you. Certain rules apply, and you must abide by them. If you fail to do so, you will get hurt.

There is lots of good advice here on FC, concentrated all in one place. Our electronics engineers can, and will, help you out.


But if we compare it to say, smoking, and I'm not talking about the fact that to this day, smoking is the 3rd leading causing of fire fatalities in the US. But I am talking about bringing an open flame a few inches from your face. There is a bit of a learning curve, wouldn't you say? Without using common sense, you could really get burned, and I'm sure many do.

Just my opinion. Above all, if you're not comfortable, avoid it at all costs.
 
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pakalolo

Toolbag v1.1 (candidate)
Staff member
I appreciate your response. I have a personal relationship with Ryan and could talk about this with him further but would rather let him do his thing.

With all due respect, it's a bit disconcerting when your genuine concern gets brushed off by people with conflicts of interest on a community site that should be unbiased. I was looking for a scientific response to a concern I saw on social media that is genuine. I clicked on the guy's profile who posted that and he's an electrical engineer.

I own 2 Milaana's and was one of the first people to pre-order the Splinter, I'm not here to cast shade. There's a very small user base here and we probably wouldn't even know if there was a safety incident with a Milaana. I should be able to post stuff like this and not get a Wizard of Oz response, especially when I'm trying to gain knowledge to keep myself, family, and friends safe as well as promote the brand.

I'm pretty sure we would know if there were a safety incident with the Milaana. Outside of the FC user base, the number of units sold is tiny.
 

Dynavaper

Karma Farmer
Oh Lord. It's just a small amount of days, but I cannot imagine grabbing any other vaporizer than the Milaana when I come home in the evening. And I really would have enough devices to choose from. It has already become a reason to get home earlier, just to enjoy it.

I am so glad that I bought one!
 
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AJS

Calm Consistency
Oh Lord. It's just a small amount of days, but I cannot imagine grabbing any other vaporizer than the Milaana when I come home in the evening. And I really would have enough devices to choose from. It has already become a reason to get home earlier, just to enjoy it.

I am so glad that I bought one!
When you were telling us what you like in a vape I was thinking, man .. he sure is in for a treat! He's gunna love this shit!!
 

Dynavaper

Karma Farmer
When you were telling us what you like in a vape I was thinking, man .. he sure is in for a treat! He's gunna love this shit!!

And you were (and are) so right! I still think that the Milaana is not the right choice for everyone, but for me - it's THE BOMB.

Yesterday, a friend of mine asked what I like so much about that device, compared to others. He does not know much about vapes, but lots about coffee. It's the kind of roast that the Milaana delivers. No other device that I am aware of delivers this kind of roast. You f*cking know the difference between a good coffee from an average roasting house and a great coffee from an artistic roasting house, once you tried. Same with the Milaana. Yummy. And I honestly expected that it would take longer to "master" it. It was easier than anticipated. :)
 

Danksta

Well-Known Member
It's a very tasty roast too. I'm in love with mine. Such a classy looking device and it's function is just amazing. Unregulated is exactly what I needed in my life. I'm able to judge my speed very well when driving and will apply the breaks when needed. I appreciate the fact the Milanna never tries to stop me. She lets me do whatever I please.

One stem seems to get be pretty medicated too. The Milaana is just that efficient.

I made the right choice. :tup:
 

Bravesst

Full Steam Ahead
Manufacturer
I had one hit out of a two day stem that I had left downstairs. It had already had three hits the other night......one nice deep hit, I'm on hour number three.
I envy you one hit wonder guys. Even with the efficiency and potency of Mi, I sip at her all day. A few hits here, a few there. As my cousin (and mentor) used to say, "I don't smoke (vape) to get HIGH, I smoke (vape) to get EVEN. " It takes me a bit to get even...
 

jazzyvapeman

Well-Known Member
I'm not brushing anything off, to the contrary. I keep hammering about Lithium-Ion safety in about every thread where portable vapes using them in removable form are discussed. We even have one if not more dedicated threads about Lithium-Ion batteries and their dangers.

Yes the Milaana is an advanced device because it's strictly equivalent to a so-called "mechanical mod" in the e-cig world. The circuit is as simple as possible and thus lacks any kind of protection, and it's a considerably high power device (yet quite average to low by modern e-cig standards)

Mech-mods are not for novice users as you indeed need to know your Ohm's law. But in the e-cig world they can change (and rebuild at will) their attachments, so the heater resistance is variable. Here we have a fixed and calibrated resistance and the user doesn't really need to know anything about it as the manufacturer knows and recommend what batteries are suitable or not for that particular load.

You have to know your Lithium-Ion cells though, but this is valid for any device with removable cells. You need to know at least what a CDR means (or just buy exactly the 8 models currently on the market that are compatible, and only 6 are recommended) You need to be aware of counterfeits and bogus claims on the wraps of most unscrupulous brands. But again if you stick to the recommendations and buy from trusted sources, no problem.

You also need to know that these cells are not meant to be used like we do. Manufacturers sell them to be assembled as part of larger packs with proper BMS circuitry. They are not meant to be swapped constantly as by design they are dangerous and easy to short: the wrap around them is super thin and can be pierced easily and when they don't have a nipple (i.e. the flat-tops we use) the negative and positive are only a few millimeters away at their tip. This is why it's recommended to put the positive side down inside the device, as the copper tab could grind the shrinkwrap and create a short circuit otherwise.

Finally the device has no low-voltage protection, so you can damage your cells by discharging them too much. But the IMR/INR chemistries we use just die gracefully when you do that. It will likely damage the cell internally but it shouldn't create a dangerous situation. Now if you keep using the cell after it has been damaged it's another story...

Ah and there's no protection against pressing the trigger continuously, but the devices are designed (and were tested before production and in the field during some mishaps) to not create much of a hazard. The wood can char but the heater is enclosed in glass. And the process is self-limiting as the cell will produce less and less current as it discharges.

PS: and don't get me started on the lack of MOSFET for the switching...

Thank you so much for this reply and I apologize if this has been discussed in the prior 385 pages, I've been staying away from FC as I find it cured my VAS (2 Milaanas = paradise, vape nirvana, heaven on earth and in my lungs, soon Splinter and I'll have my 40 virgins too).

I only get my batteries from places recommended here, I got a good charger that is verified to not be counterfeit, and I take good care of my batteries, I should be good. I guess I fully don't understand what all of the dangers/cautions are not being an engineer myself but from what I gather I should be OK as long as I'm not using batteries that are acting strangely.

I've been failing at getting people to buy this thing and upon reflection I realize it's a highly technical vape and not for everyone. I always tell people it replaced my $600 Herbalizer that I haven't used since I got the Milaana nearly a year ago (which is true other than for drying freshly cleaned stems). I don't even pass it around anymore after several bad experiences, I bring my ESV 2.0 for that (hardest and easiest vapes I've used), but the ESV does not compare to the powerful effect from the Milaana. I also noticed that if you google reviews the first page is all negative (I know FC is pretty much the only non biased source of reviews, but it takes dedication and time to research here). One of my friends went with the Solo II after he said he was buying a Milaana per my recommendation and I found out later it was because of the reviews. Quick google searches and Page 1 are everything, I shared this feedback with Ryan.
 

mucsusn

60 going on 20
I envy you one hit wonder guys. Even with the efficiency and potency of Mi, I sip at her all day. A few hits here, a few there. As my cousin (and mentor) used to say, "I don't smoke (vape) to get HIGH, I smoke (vape) to get EVEN. " It takes me a bit to get even...
I built the tolerance curve well this time. After a 30 year military and parenting hiatus from THC, I rediscovered it summer of ‘15 visiting my son in Denver. Only combusted a few times before I discovered vapes......that’s all there is now. I go from around noon to bedtime everyday on about 2g a week. These amazing vapes like the Mi, logs and VC’s just are amazing at conserving weed. They literally pay for themselves! How’s that for classic rationalization?!?
 

AJS

Calm Consistency
I built the tolerance curve well this time. After a 30 year military and parenting hiatus from THC, I rediscovered it summer of ‘15 visiting my son in Denver. Only combusted a few times before I discovered vapes......that’s all there is now. I go from around noon to bedtime everyday on about 2g a week. These amazing vapes like the Mi, logs and VC’s just are amazing at conserving weed. They literally pay for themselves! How’s that for classic rationalization?!?
What...did you think money grows on vapes?!!
Uh .. kinda..
 

Bravesst

Full Steam Ahead
Manufacturer
That rationalization is pretty good... I'm never gonna take that kinda T break, but I do consume minute quantities (another awesome rationalization), and there are times are consume much less, especially when I'm busy, which is kinda most of the time.

Not to change subject completely, but I only want to use the VTC 5, goes great with unregulated.
 

Danksta

Well-Known Member
That rationalization is pretty good... I'm never gonna take that kinda T break, but I do consume minute quantities (another awesome rationalization), and there are times are consume much less, especially when I'm busy, which is kinda most of the time.

Not to change subject completely, but I only want to use the VTC 5, goes great with unregulated.

Mine arrive tomorrow. Thanks for the recommendation, I am looking forward to putting them to work.
 

Vapenvy

Indie vaper
Instead, please allow me to completely change the subject...

I know this has been mentioned before, but i am really liking the coloured stem which came with my Zion (using with milaana). The Zion stems seem to be the perfect length for smooth vapor whilst allowing enough feedback. I know there's not much difference in length between the two, and it's a big hassle to cut them down for the Mi, but at great risk of ending up in the out of context thread (again) I can't help but state that it's amazing what a difference an inch makes...

Also, i love how they mask the 'detritus of use' so they remain looking clean and make the Milaana a better looking vape overall

Finally, after almost 18 months use, it looks like the bottom plate on my Milaana is coming loose. An easy fix, i know, but truth be told i am actually looking forward to getting a bit of a gawk at the inner workings of this thing before i reglue it. For those concerned, mine is a first run Milaana, so kind of expected, and i wouldn't expect this to be an issue on current units. Just another statistic and info for RBT in his ongoing improvements and upgrades.

Oh, and despite no turbulator, i almost never scorch a load in this these days. I don't stir and rarely bother to rotate the stem either. Practice makes perfect ha ha.
 

Bravesst

Full Steam Ahead
Manufacturer
Instead, please allow me to completely change the subject...

I know this has been mentioned before, but i am really liking the coloured stem which came with my Zion (using with milaana). The Zion stems seem to be the perfect length for smooth vapor whilst allowing enough feedback. I know there's not much difference in length between the two, and it's a big hassle to cut them down for the Mi, but at great risk of ending up in the out of context thread (again) I can't help but state that it's amazing what a difference an inch makes...

Also, i love how they mask the 'detritus of use' so they remain looking clean and make the Milaana a better looking vape overall

Finally, after almost 18 months use, it looks like the bottom plate on my Milaana is coming loose. An easy fix, i know, but truth be told i am actually looking forward to getting a bit of a gawk at the inner workings of this thing before i reglue it. For those concerned, mine is a first run Milaana, so kind of expected, and i wouldn't expect this to be an issue on current units. Just another statistic and info for RBT in his ongoing improvements and upgrades.

Oh, and despite no turbulator, i almost never scorch a load in this these days. I don't stir and rarely bother to rotate the stem either. Practice makes perfect ha ha.

With bottom cap off, you will get a look at the switch compartment, but the heater compartment will be above, on the other side of the oven floor. You'll see two wires coming through two small holes. To get a look at the heater, the glass has to come off the top. You will also get a look at the bottom of the battery compartment.

Good luck!
 

Bravesst

Full Steam Ahead
Manufacturer
Got home from work early today, thought I'd fiddle around in the shop, modding out. Funny, some days you just shoulda stayed on the couch and vaped, would have got just as much done.
 
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AJS

Calm Consistency
I lost my DDave 14mm stem (the girl probably threw it away by accident :rant:), but I still have the reducer so I'm just pairing it with a 14mm m2m I have. It's not quite as smooth because the opening is wider but microdosing is microdosing! Kind of a bummer, but this works just the same. Uglier tho .. might try to hook it to glass with the Milaana if I grab an 18-14 for my d020d.
dnatUej.jpg

Just realized it's a Zion picture not a Mi .. oh well!
 

Bravesst

Full Steam Ahead
Manufacturer
Over the last few weeks I've been busy crafting custom bodies for old Milaanas, while at the same time getting familiar with the inner workings. I feel like a Milaana savant.

Here's the results of me in my shop. They all didn't survive, many got transplanted numerous times. My latest score was a really nice hunk of Cherry, I'm gonna have lots of fun with that.

I really love using these vapes, even though at this point they may be a little rough around the edges (as prototypes). Hope you enjoy the little show...
q4DcZd0.gif
 
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TheRobbo

Well-Known Member
Had a little accident the other day. Pulling my Milaana out of my back pocket and because the old soft camera case I keep it in has a belt strap it snagged on the way out and fell to the floor :o:doh:
Must have landed bottom down because the weight of the battery crushed the spring/contact at the bottom :(
t16SwZX.jpg

Had the ddave 14mm reducer in the female no damage to either...
sP7qGkF.jpg

Repair kit


And hey presto we are back in action ladies and gentlemen :tup::clap::clap::clap::clap:
UAcQtWI.jpg
 

Bravesst

Full Steam Ahead
Manufacturer
Nice fix... I have a pair of really long "medical clamp". I used to use shorter ones as roach clips. Once you realize you gotta get under and pull up, and which side it's fixed to, it's an easy fix. Nice work.
 
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