Discontinued The RBT Milaana (unregulated single 18650)

[IAmKrazy2]

Can I simulate the operation of a Milaana by cranking a Zion to max and only using the button for temp control? Is one in the same ballpark that way, so to speak?

I do it all the time. Straight unregulated dual is still more dangerous with a full charge than a fully cranked Zion but it sure is close. I would assume full blast Zion would be even more similar to the single battery unregulated than the double

 

[bounce5]

I do it all the time. Straight unregulated dual is still more dangerous with a full charge than a fully cranked Zion but it sure is close. I would assume full blast Zion would be even more similar to the single battery unregulated than the double

What is the benefit of doing a full blast Zion that makes you decide to do it all the time vs setting it at a more regulated temp. Is it just about speed? There is the risk of combustion, right?

I worry that the Milaana might be difficult to manage. I don't know. It looks beautiful and all, but perhaps it might be best to wait for a regulated Single battery version, or save for the Zion.

 

[Shit Snacks]

What is the benefit of doing a full blast Zion that makes you decide to do it all the time vs setting it at a more regulated temp. Is it just about speed? There is the risk of combustion, right?

I worry that the Milaana might be difficult to manage. I don't know. It looks beautiful and all, but perhaps it might be best to wait for a regulated Single battery version, or save for the Zion.

It is about speed, and setting a cap, but mainly speed. Just means no preheat and a quicker hit, need to let off the button right away or pulse it. For example in Milaana with a fresh battery you would hold the button for just a second really as you inhale and quickly let go to keep drawing and finish the hit.

 

[KeroZen]

Can I simulate the operation of a Milaana by cranking a Zion to max and only using the button for temp control? Is one in the same ballpark that way, so to speak?

Excepted the Zion is regulated, so we are immune to the battery level variable, and this to me should not be under-looked.

And the Milaana being a single cell device it will necessarily have a heater with lower power, like the Crafty vs Mighty difference.

The TOD/dual on the other hand could pretty much be designed with a higher power output, as there is some margin left in the Zion compared to what the IMR cells we use can deliver.

I don't think I would ever need the TOD as I use strictly no water tools and the production Zion is damn hot, instant and poweful already. It will really be some kind of extreme device for those who love monster lung-buster rips.

The Milaana on the other hand has more appeal to me, but I know in advance that I will prefer the Zion and its regulated voltage/power.

 

[IAmKrazy2]

What is the benefit of doing a full blast Zion that makes you decide to do it all the time vs setting it at a more regulated temp. Is it just about speed? There is the risk of combustion, right?

I worry that the Milaana might be difficult to manage. I don't know. It looks beautiful and all, but perhaps it might be best to wait for a regulated Single battery version, or save for the Zion.

Speed, but what makes speed most relevant for me is i also like to use a good unbroken chunk of moist material. When it isn't broke up and is moist you need that extra punch. I will rip full blast until i get a few big exhales, spin chunk with stick and get a few more really good blasts. I either than break down further and likely turn down the heat for a full extraction or just empty and start a new bowl. It doesn't take a huge chunk to do this.

Full blast once herb is super crumbled and dry, and heater is already warmed up must be done with a bit of caution, one would not be able to ride the throttle too hard.

Edit. This vape is super easy to use but may hold power some will have to learn to respect early on. Think LSV just much faster with more manual play.

Double edit @bounce5. This device wont be for everyone but it might compare well to a battery Daisy or Lily. Combustion is possible, but can be easily managed with a little practice. The experience won't be right for everyone,.but some. (most) will tame the device and rave and use them as daily drivers IMO.

 

[Shit Snacks]

This vape is super easy to use but may hold power some will have to learn to respect early on. Think LSV just much faster with more manual play.

Double edit @bounce5. This device wont be for everyone but it might compare well to a battery Daisy or Lily. Combustion is possible, but can be easily managed with a little practice. The experience won't be right for everyone,.but some. (most) will tame the device and rave and use them as daily drivers IMO.

Yeah, I know I said it about Zion originally, but Milaana is also truly MFLSV like...

 

[phattpiggie]

If RBT is using the same heater as the Zion, at the same resistance, then the single should be half the power of the TOD or thereabouts. The single shouldn't be as hard to tame as the TOD. If it is the same heater.
@bounce5 a regulated single was spoken about some time ago and could well be still on the cards.

 

[nondarb]

This device wont be for everyone but it might compare well to a battery Daisy or Lily.

truly MFLSV like...

It's quotes like this that sold me. I am hyped.

 

[bounce5]

Speed, but what makes speed most relevant for me is i also like to use a good unbroken chunk of moist material. When it isn't broke up and is moist you need that extra punch. I will rip full blast until i get a few big exhales, spin chunk with stick and get a few more really good blasts. I either than break down further and likely turn down the heat for a full extraction or just empty and start a new bowl. It doesn't take a huge chunk to do this.

Full blast once herb is super crumbled and dry, and heater is already warmed up must be done with a bit of caution, one would not be able to ride the throttle too hard.

Edit. This vape is super easy to use but may hold power some will have to learn to respect early on. Think LSV just much faster with more manual play.

Double edit @bounce5. This device wont be for everyone but it might compare well to a battery Daisy or Lily. Combustion is possible, but can be easily managed with a little practice. The experience won't be right for everyone,.but some. (most) will tame the device and rave and use them as daily drivers IMO.

Ok, you say it could be compared to a battery Daisy or Lily. But won't it differ in the way that as the battery level goes down, the button will have to be held down longer to get the same amount of power? Please do correct me if I'm wrong. If that is the case then it will be hard to know how long to hold down the button and combustion will be harder to avoid. With the Daisy or any butane vape, the power/heat factor is steady - the flame size stays the same, as a result you can cultivate technique and predictable results. I worry that the Milaana, since I understand the battery level affects how fast it heats, and how long you hold down the button, knowing the battery level would be crucial to knowing how long you should hold down the button. Am I right? Please, correct me if I'm mistaken.

 

[VegNVape]

Ok, you say it could be compared to a battery Daisy or Lily. But won't it differ in the way that as the battery level goes down, the button will have to be held down longer to get the same amount of power? Please do correct me if I'm wrong. If that is the case then it will be hard to know how long to hold down the button and combustion will be harder to avoided. With the Daisy or any butane vape, the power/heat factor is steady - the flame size stays the same, as a result you can cultivate technique and predictable results. I worry that the Milaana, since I understand the battery level affects how fast it heats, and how long you hold down the button, knowing the battery level would be crucial to knowing how long you should hold down the button. Am I right? Please, correct me if I'm mistaken.

Yes, but I do think that the way the button will be used will also be dependent on the response to the physical feedback that the user will feel in the throat.

Generally, you will hopefully have at least a rough idea of your battery status - couple this knowledge with the warmth & taste of the draw, & I think you'll likely have a pretty good technique down without too much practice, and probably without even thinking about it.

After all, we all know what charring tastes like, right?

Of course, you'll need to allow some time to get to know the vape, but seriously, this heater tech is very intuitive, imo.

I certainly don't envisage having a problem, & I'm a damn firestarter!

 

[ragnorokk]

Based on the video I mentioned before, I would not be super concerned about performance fluctuation from full battery to the cutoff. I would also not be concerned about the lack of heat settings, as button modulation should suffice -- @RastaBuddhaTao is a thorough engineer who wants repeatable results for everyone, so I rest assured I will not have to figure out on my own how to modulate the button properly -- there will be a brief, but detailed explanation and I will be able to do it right on the first try, I'm absolutely certain.

 

[KeroZen]

If RBT is using the same heater as the Zion, at the same resistance, then the single should be half the power of the TOD or thereabouts.

It's not that simple in fact. I don't have the exact figure for the production Zion heater but from memory we are around 55W maximum peak power output at (regulated) 5V. That translates to 0.45ohm for the heater. If we put the same heater on a single non regulated cell it should give us 39W peak power output when the cell is fully charged (4.2V) and only 20W when it's depleted (3V, but from what we saw of the alpha milaana, the practical cutoff would be higher, maybe 3.2V or 3.4V)

So the milaana should have 70% of the Zion power on a fresh cell and go down to 36% when discharged. Your 50% power figure would be indeed the average between these two extremes.

To put things back in perspective, 20W is about the nominal power output of the FlowerMate 5-Pro and 5-S. While the reported power is 27W for the Crafty and 30W for the Mighty. But as I said before, the power figure tells us only part of the story: how these Watts are used is what's important. In RBT's case, the patented heater tech means they are really used to transfer heat to the air and there is no large power-robbing heat sink, like a metal or glass core cover or a metal device shell.

But won't it differ in the way that as the battery level goes down, the button will have to be held down longer to get the same amount of power?

Yes, in a sense it will be very similar to how the Firewood 1 & 2 work.

Generally, you will hopefully have at least a rough idea of your battery status

I beg to differ. I keep losing track of my status in the Zion and I always have to grab my voltmeter to be sure before starting a session. A charge indicator of some kind has always ranked very high on my wishlist for RBT, even a simple LED would help a lot.

Of course you will have throat feedback to help but the milaana will be more "manual" than the Zion as we have that extra parameter (ie. battery charge) to take into account.

 

[VegNVape]

I beg to differ. I keep losing track of my status in the Zion and I always have to grab my voltmeter to be sure before starting a session.

Well I would definitely have to disagree there @KeroZen because personally, I have found that I use my Zion so much that I always know if my batteries are fully charged, or if they are several bowls in, or if they are about on thier way out. As I said, it is a pretty rough idea but -whenever I check it out with a meter I'm generally not far off the mark.

It's just become second nature to me.

And the way I see it with Milaana, is this information will be used in conjunction with the physical feedback recieved from the unit, and also in-line with the recommendations which I believe will be set out by RBT on the best way to modulate the heat for your load, depending on the current state of your battery.

Armed with this knowledge, the user is put in full control of the experience they recieve.

But it's not a vape for dummies!

No, no, no.

Anyway kero, we all know you're a sucker for blinking lights

 

[phattpiggie]

@KeroZen the figures I remember were TOD 70w, Zion 50w and the single >25w. As you say these figures depend heavily on the state of play with battery voltage.
@VegNVape The only thing the user will have to be aware of will be that whatever pre-heat and draw speed was needed with the depleted cell will be different with a fresh one. As you say it will all become 'second nature' after a while.
Kero perhaps the chip RBT is using has the ability to have a voltmeter fitted to it perhaps something for the future. We will see.

 

[pakalolo]

I was trying not to post anything until I've actually tried a Milaana, but since some of you are concerned I will say this: I think the worries about control and battery status are probably exaggerated.

Before I got a Zion I used a FlashVAPE almost exclusively. The FV is a single battery unregulated device. The difference is that the heater in the FV is extremely fast, so you have to be quick on the button to avoid combustion. Once you learn how to deal with this, the FV is a superb device that is hard to match. Unfortunately, its learning curve is steep.

The Zion heater comes up to temperature much more slowly and once it gets to operating temperature the curve flattens, so further temperature increase is not significant unless you hold the button for a long time. The Milaana has no regulation so the curve probably doesn't flatten, but the change should still be slow enough that I think it will be easy to determine when to let up on the button just by the vapour temperature and taste.

The battery state should be obvious by the length of time it takes to get up to temperature. This is how I know the FV battery status. The FV has a light, but it's really only useful an on/off indicator. By the time the battery is so weak that the light starts to look dim, the vapour production has already dropped enough that it's simple to recognize that you need a fresh battery. I can't see how a Milaana LED would behave any differently. It would just increase the cost and manufacturing complexity while adding a point of failure.

I think it won't take long for a user to work out how to use the button—but again, until I try one, I can't say that for certain.

 

[ragnorokk]

Well, I hear beta units of this device will be in the wild soon enough, so I suppose we'll get to find out if a battery indicator is "neccessary." Currently, I only have the Zion experience to go by. I just know when my Zion stops pumping my face full of vapor on my chosen setting, it's time to recharge my batteries. That usually takes a full day of vapin my face off (occasionally I use closer to 2 pairs in a day, but those days are not ones I remember well). If the Zion had an indicator light, it would only save me the few seconds of time spent checking my bowl to see if it's green when I'm not getting vapor.

@KeroZen I really doubt @RastaBuddhaTao will be jumping at the chance to put more bells/whistles on it, as he's pretty adamant about the KISS design methodology... but once we get beta feedback, who knows what changes might occur. I'm guessing very few that aren't just tweaks to the heater, based on how the Zion went.

 

[TheWhisper]

Are there videos or photos of this? The video in the OP no longer exists.

 

[bounce5]

Whoa, RBT is getting slammed on Reddit for his customer service fails.

https://www.reddit.com/r/vaporents/comments/46v1lo/thinking_about_cancelling_my_zion_preorder/

 

[killick]

So there might be some hope for you International peeps - just snaffled this from the RBT website:
International Sales
Contract manufacture identified in Canada has signed the NDA and is starting to prepare a quote package for review expected sometime in March
The close proximity of our Montreal manufacturer to our US manufacture in Albany, NY will make for easy knowledge transfer and dual supply
Initial review of the Zion and Milaana with potential Canadian retail outlets will start over the coming weeks with one capable of shipping internationally

Much Love and Respect to all that continue to make the RBT dream a Reality.... A big Shout Out to RBTNation! What a fun and wild ride it has come to be.


@bounce5 It sounds like the same guys that got spanked for excessive complaining on here. There they can continue to bash for as long as they like...

 

[Shit Snacks]

I was trying not to post anything until I've actually tried a Milaana, but since some of you are concerned I will say this: I think the worries about control and battery status are probably exaggerated.

Before I got a Zion I used a FlashVAPE almost exclusively. The FV is a single battery unregulated device. The difference is that the heater in the FV is extremely fast, so you have to be quick on the button to avoid combustion. Once you learn how to deal with this, the FV is a superb device that is hard to match. Unfortunately, its learning curve is steep.

The Zion heater comes up to temperature much more slowly and once it gets to operating temperature the curve flattens, so further temperature increase is not significant unless you hold the button for a long time. The Milaana has no regulation so the curve probably doesn't flatten, but the change should still be slow enough that I think it will be easy to determine when to let up on the button just by the vapour temperature and taste.

The battery state should be obvious by the length of time it takes to get up to temperature. This is how I know the FV battery status. The FV has a light, but it's really only useful an on/off indicator. By the time the battery is so weak that the light starts to look dim, the vapour production has already dropped enough that it's simple to recognize that you need a fresh battery. I can't see how a Milaana LED would behave any differently. It would just increase the cost and manufacturing complexity while adding a point of failure.

I think it won't take long for a user to work out how to use the button—but again, until I try one, I can't say that for certain.

Agreed, much like the Thermovape T1 as well, it is not the first of its kind to operate this way, but it is the first with such a robust heater...

I think we all need to wait until the real feedback begins, @phattpiggie those numbers were the old 14mm mini, since then I had been told it has been tuned to run more TODlike power somehow. We shall see...

@TheWhisper yeah there will be videos soon enough, there's only a couple functional betas and one is enroute to Mr Pak. I am certain other testers will receive some too and some will be making videos and reporting with early feedback as well... So patience here, Zion is the more established product, but this one will be much faster in development and production

 

[tblast]

Whoa, RBT is getting slammed on Reddit for his customer service fails.

https://www.reddit.com/r/vaporents/comments/46v1lo/thinking_about_cancelling_my_zion_preorder/

There's a lot of that on Reddit, it's basically the same 7 or 8 people in every thread who've all ostensibly cancelled their order and still harbor much resentment over minor quibbles and long wait times. Speaks to the serious amount of VAS that RBT products create.

 

[srama21]

This single battery unit is going to be dope when it drops.

@tblast - yeah and we all know 7 or 8 people are completely meaningless - ask RBT

 

[jim-bob]

I don't think it's fair to characterize that thread as '7 or 8' malcontents. I think of myself as a fairly reasonable person, and I too am very displeased at RBT's total lack of concern for the customer.

 

[tblast]

RBT's total lack of concern for the customer.

For the record, I don't agree with that sentiment at all.

 

[thekarmawhore]

RBT is good people, the patient are and will continue to be happily rewarded.