The Pax and MFLB: a subjective comparison

[terpsfan726]

wow this thread has turned out to be great! Packed with a ton of info.

I currently own the pax, and have owned the mflb in the past, but i don't think i have had enough experimenting with various vaporizers to really put forward my insight, but oh well...

At the time i had my launch box, my only other vape was a box vape that combusted somewhat often. I had a pretty low tolerance at the time so i could squeeze in two sessions out of a trench and i thought the hits were pretty good once i got the right technique down with 2700's. Even though the clouds can't really compare to the Pax's, the smallness/ stealthliness kind of makes up for it. THE BATTERIES were what killed me. They are just such a hassle to charge, carry enough for a decent session, worry about which ones are charged, etc.

Something came up then i no longer had the mflb

So i saved up for a bit then decided to splurge on the new pax by ploom

My first impression was, there is so much damn resistance on the draw, and the device is beautiful. Once i started to pack, i mean PACK, the oven down, i started to realize that the small amount of airflow is actually a good thing and i got some ridiculous clouds(even on low).

The pax is just so much more convenient with the battery, no 'tapping' and 'shaking' in between each hit, and just in general. The downsides that i have noticed is the price, and you have to clean it a lot. Probably forgetting a few, but i can't think of them at the moment.

 

[OF]

All this goodness for $119.57 delivered. At that price I was able to splurge on the P.A. That's a pretty good set up for less than 180 clams,especially with the versatility it allows. She'll do all I need while I start that long haul towards a Volcano!

Sounds like a solid start for sure. Sharp consumerism IMO.

One thought on that 'long haul towards a Volcano" part, consider taking a side track to a HA 2.2. IMO it blows a mighty fine bag, is also a great whip vape and fits directly into waterpipes and bongs with 14 or 18 mm fittings. Does a good job with concentrates like Volcano does as well. In all modes. And you can own one for a few bucks under what you've got in MFLB......

OF

 

[poonman]

I just want to thank all the " Titans " of FC for their educational input .
This is why I joined FC and encourage others to do so .
It was a very Civilized discussion on the merits of both vapes .
You do not get that kind of data from a salesman or their web sites .

Someone hinted it earlier ,
" Variety is the spice of life . "
And I need variety in my life .

mflb gives me small to medium hits that is still to this day ....the tastiest . imo
NO2 and the Solo offers medium to bigger hits with very easy user friendly . imo
My Volcano sits in the corner for most days unless I'm entertaining friends . Big easy lung full vapors .
A tad costly because of the chamber size . imo

I've learned more about the Pax on this thread than the Pax thread .
Again , Thank you Titans of FC .

 

[Dreamerr]

I don't. As I said, plant material, dry or not, is a lousy thermal conductor. If it weren't, you wouldn't be able to hang on to a joint for long.

The even cooking referred to is almost certainly due to the increased secondary convection that happens in the Pax over the LB. The wider mouthpiece allows you to move a lot more hot air through the chamber.

ok as always confused...if combustion is conduction what makes a conduction vape different then a joint?

 

[pakalolo]

ok as always confused...if combustion is conduction what makes a conduction vape different then a joint?

Well, in a sense combustion is big time conduction. The material comes into contact with a heated surface i.e. smoldering weed, and PHOOM! Up in smoke.

A conduction vapourizer is different from a joint because it doesn't heat up to the point of combustion, or at least used properly it doesn't.

 

[Dreamerr]

I have never ever combusted in the LB. I didn't even know it was possible. I doubt my technique is great but have been using it I suppose for about two years. I always get visible vapor which like u pakalolo is not really what I want. If I get a cloud I know I will cough. I take really small hits and have never had an issue getting medicated. I might be using a dirty word but I usually smoke a bowl before I leave the house so the LB is topping me off the whole time I am out or the DV if I will be out longer. I run a trench down all the way now and since I do have a DV I then chuck the abv in there and get a bit more out of it hehe.

Thanks for that explanation it was on my mind for a while.

 

[OF]

I have never ever combusted in the LB. I didn't even know it was possible.

I might be using a dirty word but I usually smoke a bowl before I leave the house so the LB is topping me off the whole time I am out or the DV if I will be out longer.

You have to work pretty hard to do it, but it's possible. Do it once and you'll be looking for ways to avoid it ever again.....

Combustion is fire. A cherry. Like other fires (say the BBQ or fireplace), a chemical reaction takes place making water and CO2 out of the 'fuel' (your herb in this case) and air. LOTS of energy is liberated, which is why the BBQ will cook your steak or the fireplace warm the house. This extra energy makes the bowl temperature skyrocket. Notice you only have to light the bowl, not continue to provide heat? That's why.

The rub is the higher temperatures not only produce other nasty stuff you don't really need, but also literally 'burns up' part of your THC. This is why vape usage stretches your stash.

When you blaze, you respond mostly to the toxins, not the THC. That's why you get 'red eye' blazing but not vaping. Over time, your mind ties all the details together and you end up craving the toxins to get the THC. Smoke a placebo and most folks get off without the THC! In college we amused ourselves getting the new guy stoned on tea.....right out of the bag. Breathe in the nasty smoke and you'll probably get off if you think that'll happen. You need to unlearn that association if you want to get the full benefit of vaping. This means, unfortunately, swearing off blazing for a few weeks. On the plus side, stuff starts smelling better almost right away. Almost all of us have made that transition and are not about to go back, some few do for a host of reason (no doubt good to them). The rest of us foolishly enjoy better health and cheaper herb costs and try to convince each other we're happy......

OF

 

[terpsfan726]

You have to work pretty hard to do it, but it's possible. Do it once and you'll be looking for ways to avoid it ever again.....

Combustion is fire. A cherry. Like other fires (say the BBQ or fireplace), a chemical reaction takes place making water and CO2 out of the 'fuel' (your herb in this case) and air. LOTS of energy is liberated, which is why the BBQ will cook your steak or the fireplace warm the house. This extra energy makes the bowl temperature skyrocket. Notice you only have to light the bowl, not continue to provide heat? That's why.

The rub is the higher temperatures not only produce other nasty stuff you don't really need, but also literally 'burns up' part of your THC. This is why vape usage stretches your stash.

When you blaze, you respond mostly to the toxins, not the THC. That's why you get 'red eye' blazing but not vaping. Over time, your mind ties all the details together and you end up craving the toxins to get the THC. Smoke a placebo and most folks get off without the THC! In college we amused ourselves getting the new guy stoned on tea.....right out of the bag. Breathe in the nasty smoke and you'll probably get off if you think that'll happen. You need to unlearn that association if you want to get the full benefit of vaping. This means, unfortunately, swearing off blazing for a few weeks. On the plus side, stuff starts smelling better almost right away. Almost all of us have made that transition and are not about to go back, some few do for a host of reason (no doubt good to them). The rest of us foolishly enjoy better health and cheaper herb costs and try to convince each other we're happy......

OF

thats pretty interesting, but i still get the glorious "red-eye" vaping... hmmm

 

[Dreamerr]

Believe it or not I feel about the same smoking or vaping. I am not sure why and I also do not get red eyed. I do understand what you are talking about because I remember that from when I was a teen and in college as well. It doesn't seem to be the case now that I am way older. I do think blazing is faster for my spasms and fast is very important. I will think about swearing off it for a while but it can't be for months because of a situation that needs to be dealt with. I will update you when I do it.

 

[UpUpandAway]

When you blaze, you respond mostly to the toxins, not the THC. That's why you get 'red eye' blazing but not vaping.

OF

Interesting... I had noticed that I no longer got red eye when I vaped, but really didn't know why.

I haven't completely cut out combusting yet (I feel rude turning down a joint), but that day is coming. I recently took a rip from a bong (combusting) and it tasted AWFUL!!!

Anyhoo.... back on topic.

I have both the Pax and MFLB and I love both for different reasons. Choosing one over the other for any given session depends on my mood and the environment/circumstances.

I use the Pax when I'm out and about.

• doesn't really call attention to itself
• solid battery life
• holds a good amount of flower

The MFLB is part of my home arsenal.

• It's my go-to piece when I'm conserving my herb or if I want just a couple of hits.
• I actually appreciate the learning curve associated with the LB; it transforms vaping into a "skill" that can be honed and mastered.
• The LB has a charm that I can't quite put into words. I think using the LB has become like a ritual for me: assembly (load trench, insert batt, insert stem), warm-up, inhale, flip trench, repeat. In a Buddhist sense, I'm very much "in the moment" when using the LB.

 

[Xchadb]

ive had both, LB was my first vape ever, and the pax is the most recent ive gotten, and a few in between.

if price wasnt a concern for anyone, what would you choose for everyday use? PAX.

LB still has it when it comes to portability and stealth, almost like its so simple that its ahed of its time.

i feel like pax is only a stepping stone in about whats to come in the later years.

 

[willieR]

The MFLB is part of my home arsenal.

• It's my go-to piece when I'm conserving my herb or if I want just a couple of hits.
• I actually appreciate the learning curve associated with the LB; it transforms vaping into a "skill" that can be honed and mastered.
• The LB has a charm that I can't quite put into words. I think using the LB has become like a ritual for me: assembly (load trench, insert batt, insert stem), warm-up, inhale, flip trench, repeat. In a Buddhist sense, I'm very much "in the moment" when using the LB.

This is very true. The wood construction and utter simplicity have made it a great thing. Wish there were a more powerful battery for it beyond the Powerex.

 

[ShipDit]

Sounds like a solid start for sure. Sharp consumerism IMO.

One thought on that 'long haul towards a Volcano" part, consider taking a side track to a HA 2.2. IMO it blows a mighty fine bag, is also a great whip vape and fits directly into waterpipes and bongs with 14 or 18 mm fittings. Does a good job with concentrates like Volcano does as well. In all modes. And you can own one for a few bucks under what you've got in MFLB......

OF

Thank you very much for the tip,I did some research and like what I see. One question,(and to me it's a biggie),which one is more efficient? I live in a non-MMJ state,so when The Good Stuff is around it runs between 120-150 bux a quarter,so i NEED to make the absolute most of my investment.
B.T.W.,thanks to all who frequent these forums and take the time to respond to borderline retards like myself!

Stay free

 

[Quetzalcoatl]

Thank you very much for the tip,I did some research and like what I see. One question,(and to me it's a biggie),which one is more efficient? I live in a non-MMJ state,so when The Good Stuff is around it runs between 120-150 bux a quarter,so i NEED to make the absolute most of my investment.
B.T.W.,thanks to all who frequent these forums and take the time to respond to borderline retards like myself!

Stay free

Can't speak for any of the vapes he mentioned with the exception of the Launch Box. All I can say is I'm vaporizing a THIRD of what I was smoking. A half has lasted me almost a month of continuous vaporizing. Vapes are very efficient when used properly, so it's an improvement for sure. It's generally agreed that "log-style" vaporizers are the most efficient, so... Underdog, Heat Island, Wychwood, etc. It's all personal preference, do you want bags? Do you want stealth? Digital readout?

 

[OF]

Thank you very much for the tip,I did some research and like what I see. One question,(and to me it's a biggie),which one is more efficient? I live in a non-MMJ state,so when The Good Stuff is around it runs between 120-150 bux a quarter,so i NEED to make the absolute most of my investment.

You're very welcome.

Efficiency is a funny thing to tie down. In the broad sense, the machine that extracts the most (leaves the least in AVB) would be the champ. Sometimes human nature takes over and you take advantage of the 'easy pickings' and use more than needed. Let's discount that for now, you're on your own for self restraint?

By that standard MFLB is good. It does a pretty good job at extraction if you play it right. Stem vapes will get even more of it since you use convection to evenly roast the bud (everything is uniformly heated rather than randomly like in conduction vapes). IMO the difference is slight but the champs in 'how many times can I get stoned from this gram?' is probably stem vapes, followed by the box?

However, you can take the AVB from either, put it in HA, and squeeze a little more out of it. You can run it right up to 'roast coffee' color if you've a mind to without combustion getting you. It's a bit like cars, if you can keep from 'putting your foot into it' you'll probably get the best mileage that way.

So, the point that HA can get a little more out of 'spent' AVB from other vapes should make it the most efficient IMO. It's possible to get carried away with it, though......

There's also the point that HA will do a good job on mids and regs. Even low grade trim will have some THC in it, and the HA will hold half a gram or more at a time if you want and can strip it out where MFLB and stem vapes will leave you sucking hot air with trivial amounts of vapor. Not to mention, bags are lots of fun when you've got the herb to spare.

Good luck.

OF

 

[ShipDit]

Thank you both for the quick replys!
Quetzalcoatl,you're so right,in the 2 1/2 months I've had my LB,my consumption is at least half of what it was BV (Before Vaping). I've been running the ABV through the Roor,it tastes like hell,but it does get me through those dreaded dry spells!
Of,once again I've learned something from ya,info absorbed and greatly appreciated. One last question then I'll quit boring ya all with all my nonsense. (Total lie,but I will try). How does the HA hold up to daily use? Is cleaning a hassle? Any recomendations on where to buy?
SHIT! That was 3 questions wasn't it? Sorry 'bout that, I try to keep my "untruths" to dating and church....

Thanks again all!

Stay free!

You're very welcome.

Efficiency is a funny thing to tie down. In the broad sense, the machine that extracts the most (leaves the least in AVB) would be the champ. Sometimes human nature takes over and you take advantage of the 'easy pickings' and use more than needed. Let's discount that for now, you're on your own for self restraint?

By that standard MFLB is good. It does a pretty good job at extraction if you play it right. Stem vapes will get even more of it since you use convection to evenly roast the bud (everything is uniformly heated rather than randomly like in conduction vapes). IMO the difference is slight but the champs in 'how many times can I get stoned from this gram?' is probably stem vapes, followed by the box?

However, you can take the AVB from either, put it in HA, and squeeze a little more out of it. You can run it right up to 'roast coffee' color if you've a mind to without combustion getting you. It's a bit like cars, if you can keep from 'putting your foot into it' you'll probably get the best mileage that way.

So, the point that HA can get a little more out of 'spent' AVB from other vapes should make it the most efficient IMO. It's possible to get carried away with it, though......

There's also the point that HA will do a good job on mids and regs. Even low grade trim will have some THC in it, and the HA will hold half a gram or more at a time if you want and can strip it out where MFLB and stem vapes will leave you sucking hot air with trivial amounts of vapor. Not to mention, bags are lots of fun when you've got the herb to spare.

Good luck.

OF

 

[OF]

How does the HA hold up to daily use? Is cleaning a hassle? Any recomendations on where to buy?

IMO the HA is a tank. Very tough, glass filled nylon I think. You could probably drive nails with the body. The crucibles let you delay the cleaning (swap in a clean unit and vape on). The PTFE cap will stand up to ISO soaks and boiling, as will the crucibles, cleaning is a snap when you finally get to it. The only tough part is the screen in the cap but I usually put a 1/2 SS screen on top of the crucible (over the herb) so this screen takes most of the fouling. When it get's fouled, I pull it and put it in the dirty jar. Every few months, when there's a few dozen dirty screens, I take out the clamp and torch lighter and 'flame' them clean (heat them until they glow). Five dollars of screens saves lots of grief.

Cheapest place I know to buy the HA is Amazon.....a place you seem to be a master at? They'll sell you screens cheap, too.

My only gripe with it is the maker went a little cheap on the hose, not a good whip IMO. I use a couple feet of nice (larger bore) silicone tube instead.

OF

 

[ShipDit]

Thank you yet again! On my way right now to Amazon for the HA and some hose.
Just did some quick math,with what I'm saving by going for the HA over the Volcano should keep me in The Good Stuff for probably 2 months. I owe ya big time Bro!

Stay free

IMO the HA is a tank. Very tough, glass filled nylon I think. You could probably drive nails with the body. The crucibles let you delay the cleaning (swap in a clean unit and vape on). The PTFE cap will stand up to ISO soaks and boiling, as will the crucibles, cleaning is a snap when you finally get to it. The only tough part is the screen in the cap but I usually put a 1/2 SS screen on top of the crucible (over the herb) so this screen takes most of the fouling. When it get's fouled, I pull it and put it in the dirty jar. Every few months, when there's a few dozen dirty screens, I take out the clamp and torch lighter and 'flame' them clean (heat them until they glow). Five dollars of screens saves lots of grief.

Cheapest place I know to buy the HA is Amazon.....a place you seem to be a master at? They'll sell you screens cheap, too.

My only gripe with it is the maker went a little cheap on the hose, not a good whip IMO. I use a couple feet of nice (larger bore) silicone tube instead.

OF

 

[skippy]

Yep good thread. Own a MFLB, it is my third one, so I'm pretty attached to them but reading the Pax thread has just about convinced me to buy one . the MFLB is the only vape I've ever owned but the pax, to me looks like a 21st century vape
while the MFLB could have been invented in the 1970s, not that there's anything wrong with that.
To me the only thing that I can see that puts me off the pax is it seems to require more herb, I use very little in my MFLB for a good result where as from what I can see I will need to use a fair bit more in the pax.

 

[rei]

Thank you very much for the tip,I did some research and like what I see. One question,(and to me it's a biggie),which one is more efficient? I live in a non-MMJ state,so when The Good Stuff is around it runs between 120-150 bux a quarter,so i NEED to make the absolute most of my investment.
B.T.W.,thanks to all who frequent these forums and take the time to respond to borderline retards like myself!

Stay free

Thank you very much for the tip,I did some research and like what I see. One question,(and to me it's a biggie),which one is more efficient? I live in a non-MMJ state,so when The Good Stuff is around it runs between 120-150 bux a quarter,so i NEED to make the absolute most of my investment.
B.T.W.,thanks to all who frequent these forums and take the time to respond to borderline retards like myself!

Stay free

I have a Launch Box and a Herbalaire 2.1 - I've used my friends SIlver Surfers, Extremes, DaBuddha's and lightbulb vapes - of the ones I've used, I find the HA gets the most out of the weed, and will just cook through anything even not ground. I dont like the taste as much as the surfer or dabuddha but i think thats just me imagining glass makes things taste better / cleaner (Extremes ive only done bags, the others ive all basically hit straight)
Another nice thing about the HA is its shaped in a way so its good to pass around and just hit off the top

Anyway I sound like a marketing drone for HA, back on topic. - I've been having problems iwth my MFLB batteries (I think) and while i'll probaby switch them out and be fine, I was considering another portable vape - I dont think the Pax has me sold, just because of it's price tag

 

[lesvape]

I dunno why but this thread kind of makes me want to get a Omicron with a herb cart and a LB to go with my pax and VG bat. Thank you.

 

[MrNorml]

I said it was subjective. Where's your list of Pax positives over the LB?

Well, like you I don't want to create a riot, but...
Pluses : No need to carry several batteries; no learning curve; not just a "1-hitter"; perhaps more stealthy (no battery out the side, plastic straw or sucking on a piece of wood); holds more for longer sessions; combustion not possible; 1-handed operation; consistent temps (within some variation I would imagine); don't have to carb (although some to apparently toggle bottom cover to do just that so you can carb but don't have to cover a hole with finger while pushing in battery while holding up to mouth); no need to disassemble battery/plastic tube to store and so perhaps less risk of losing "loose' parts.
Minuses : not just wood with conductively hot metal - i.e., much more complicated and thus I would have to imagine more to go wrong somewhere; a bit larger; probably continues to cook bud after shut-off longer; apparently must return to seller to replace battery. That's just off the top of my head, but seems to look at both in terms of what they offer. And like you, I don't (yet) have in my possession a Pax (Latin for "peace") but do have a LB (among others). And, they are different animals for different purposes. If I went to a bar and wanted to go to the bathroom and get a quick hit, LB would win (or 1-hitter to be honest but combustible), but beyond that limited purpose the LB seems _to me at least_ to not be my cup of tea and mine hasn't gotten use for over 10 months now. Maybe if I were consuming canna butter the LB would be fine to "keep me there" but I'm vaping, not eating (unfortunately for me at times IMHO).

 

[MrNorml]

ok as always confused...if combustion is conduction what makes a conduction vape different then a joint?

About 250 bux apparently :-) plus you dont get the 'bad stuff' that starts with combustion just the lower temperature-released meds that do what they do. Look for some charts (in Q thread I believe) of what meds are released at different temps and see that you don't need the combustion temp to get what you want/need. And hotter must be worse if it's going into your lungs (every try a glycerine tube???).

 

[akwardsauce]

not reading this whole thread...but i just wanna mention 2 things.

first of all, havent heard of the pax until this moment (had to youtube it)...looks cool but expensive.

anyways, all i have is the mflb & the con i didnt see mentioned in the original/modified list is that it has opened up in my pocket like 3-6 times already (about 1 yr of usage).

but another pro of pax is that it is more stealth to sneak past the bouncers who pat u down at the door (maybe?). once, a guy asked me what my mflb was, then flipped it around in his hand and could see the herb through the window...so i had to walk back to my car to put it away.

 

[Dreamerr]

Mr. Normal what is a glycerine tube?