natural farmer
Well-Known Member
I prefer load and dump out as well. Lotus works so good this way and it's quite fast! I am so looking forward for this! And a not-so-expensive Gandalf pipe with 14mm GonG fitting as well! 
Discontinued The Okin by D.M. Pipes
- Thread starter Stu
- Start date
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- Tags
- charcoal powered okin portable
Load and dump it is! This thing is evolving...
In other news, I just finished this up... http://imgur.com/a/lzwmz
Now that it's done, I'm free to focus more on this vaporizer!
In other news, I just finished this up... http://imgur.com/a/lzwmz
Now that it's done, I'm free to focus more on this vaporizer!
I love the look of this, and i like how it uses charcoal to give you that primal smoking feeling.
Also, Dan..... That pipe is beautiful!
Also, Dan..... That pipe is beautiful!
Adobewan
Well-Known Member
The VAS is so strong... If this were available right now I wouldn't hesitate for a moment.
Dan, those pipes are so beautiful, your work is stunning, and I can't wait to get one of these
Thanks!
Updates coming soon! It's amazing how much thought you can put into such a small object, haha. I think.. with minimal designs... there is even greater importance on each detail.. everything must be perfect.
HillaryClinton
Future ruler of earth
SoulCaptivesAreFree
Hazemaniac
Dan i'm so glad you found your way to fc 
your work is astonishing and the vape-concept has huge potential! this will be a fun thread to watch blow up!
keep up the good work!
your work is astonishing and the vape-concept has huge potential! this will be a fun thread to watch blow up!
keep up the good work!
Fenton Mewley
A man in search of cloudier pastures
That's actually quite an accurate representation of my reaction.
Okay, I thought I would post a quick update about my more recent findings.
In developing the design, one of the biggest challenges is the connection between the wooden body and the steel tip...
There are a few complications, and I'll try to sum them up in bullet form for easy digestion:
- Thermal expansion. The steel will expand and contract at a different rate, causing various joints to become loose or tight.
- Thermal conductivity. Metal on metal joints will conduct heat really well, letting the heat from the tip, transfer directly to the wooden body of the vape.
- Abrasion. Press fit unions between similar materials will wear over time, producing a loose joint that is difficult to repair.
- Threaded unions and glue. With a threaded union, you need a male and female that are made from compatible materials. So, you end up having to make a glued joint between the wooden body, and the metal bushing that will be threaded (Cutting the threads into the wood is not a good idea at this scale, the heat will make the fine threads weak and they will degrade over time).
This glue joint is a problem. There are high heat epoxy resins out there, but most of them require a heat cure at a temperature and duration that would damage the wood. This glue joint would have to hold up to heat, and the expansion/contraction difference between the metal bushing and wood body. My gut tells me that this would eventually fail.
That, and using glue is...less elegant.
So, where does that leave us?
The answer, I found, is in instrument making. Wooden wind instruments have the exact same problems. They need to have air-tight unions, between materials that are constantly expanding and contracting, and these unions have to be infinitely serviceable for longevity.
There seems to be two avenues. Cork, and waxed thread. Cork is out, because, again, it requires glue.
Here is what a waxed thread union looks like,
This has a few advantages. It strengthens the wooden tenon, keeping it bound will reduce the likelihood of cracking. It is completely adjustable. By adding or removing thread, you can service the joint so that it is perfect despite any seasonal changes in the wood.
The thread makes an elastic joint that swells or contracts when needed, so that changes due to thermal expansion are not an issue.
It requires no glue.
And, I would like to use Nomex/Kevlar thread. This heat resistant thread will provide a thin layer of insulation between the steel tip and wooden body so that less heat is transferred directly to the wood.
So, that's where I'm at as far as the joinery goes...
You may be wondering, why not just sleeve the wood with stainless steel and stabilize the wood so that it doesn't contract/expand? Well, I want a wooden airway, that's why.
Glass, stainless or ceramic seems to be the preferred airway material for modern vaporizers. But, based on my experience with pipe making, I don't think that these materials are ideal in a small portable vape.
Porous ceramic might be something to explore, but for now, I'm going to put those ideas aside, too many issues with using ceramic materials...
Traditional tobacco pipes are made from wood because the physical properties of wood make for a good smoke. This is mostly due to the porosity of the wood. This porosity sucks the moisture (steam) out of the smoke. A dry smoke is a smooth smoke, surprisingly. Then this moisture is allowed to dissipate outwards, through the wood, rather than stay strapped inside the airway.
Non-porous materials will give you a far more neutral taste, but they will also give you a harsher vapor, and will condense moisture on the inside walls which will need to be cleaned.
There are two paths I could take with this... I could go with stainless, and the airway would be easy to clean, it would taste neutral, and it would provide a hotter/harsher vape. Or I could go with solid wood, which would never truly be neutral tasting, but it would help give you that smooth vape. The main body of the vape wouldn't get as hot either.
Personally, I think that this vaporizer should evolve in taste, just like a tobacco pipe. It will never return to baseline...both in taste, and aesthetics. The oils from the vapor, and your hands, will permeate the wood and change its colour over time... in a year, your vaporizer will look and taste different than anyone elses. It's taste would be shaped by what herbs you vape... and much like a well made tobacco pipe, it should only become better with age!
I know this is a new concept with modern vapes, but.. I totally dig that shit, haha.
In developing the design, one of the biggest challenges is the connection between the wooden body and the steel tip...
There are a few complications, and I'll try to sum them up in bullet form for easy digestion:
- Thermal expansion. The steel will expand and contract at a different rate, causing various joints to become loose or tight.
- Thermal conductivity. Metal on metal joints will conduct heat really well, letting the heat from the tip, transfer directly to the wooden body of the vape.
- Abrasion. Press fit unions between similar materials will wear over time, producing a loose joint that is difficult to repair.
- Threaded unions and glue. With a threaded union, you need a male and female that are made from compatible materials. So, you end up having to make a glued joint between the wooden body, and the metal bushing that will be threaded (Cutting the threads into the wood is not a good idea at this scale, the heat will make the fine threads weak and they will degrade over time).
This glue joint is a problem. There are high heat epoxy resins out there, but most of them require a heat cure at a temperature and duration that would damage the wood. This glue joint would have to hold up to heat, and the expansion/contraction difference between the metal bushing and wood body. My gut tells me that this would eventually fail.
That, and using glue is...less elegant.
So, where does that leave us?
The answer, I found, is in instrument making. Wooden wind instruments have the exact same problems. They need to have air-tight unions, between materials that are constantly expanding and contracting, and these unions have to be infinitely serviceable for longevity.
There seems to be two avenues. Cork, and waxed thread. Cork is out, because, again, it requires glue.
Here is what a waxed thread union looks like,
This has a few advantages. It strengthens the wooden tenon, keeping it bound will reduce the likelihood of cracking. It is completely adjustable. By adding or removing thread, you can service the joint so that it is perfect despite any seasonal changes in the wood.
The thread makes an elastic joint that swells or contracts when needed, so that changes due to thermal expansion are not an issue.
It requires no glue.
And, I would like to use Nomex/Kevlar thread. This heat resistant thread will provide a thin layer of insulation between the steel tip and wooden body so that less heat is transferred directly to the wood.
So, that's where I'm at as far as the joinery goes...
You may be wondering, why not just sleeve the wood with stainless steel and stabilize the wood so that it doesn't contract/expand? Well, I want a wooden airway, that's why.
Glass, stainless or ceramic seems to be the preferred airway material for modern vaporizers. But, based on my experience with pipe making, I don't think that these materials are ideal in a small portable vape.
Porous ceramic might be something to explore, but for now, I'm going to put those ideas aside, too many issues with using ceramic materials...
Traditional tobacco pipes are made from wood because the physical properties of wood make for a good smoke. This is mostly due to the porosity of the wood. This porosity sucks the moisture (steam) out of the smoke. A dry smoke is a smooth smoke, surprisingly. Then this moisture is allowed to dissipate outwards, through the wood, rather than stay strapped inside the airway.
Non-porous materials will give you a far more neutral taste, but they will also give you a harsher vapor, and will condense moisture on the inside walls which will need to be cleaned.
There are two paths I could take with this... I could go with stainless, and the airway would be easy to clean, it would taste neutral, and it would provide a hotter/harsher vape. Or I could go with solid wood, which would never truly be neutral tasting, but it would help give you that smooth vape. The main body of the vape wouldn't get as hot either.
Personally, I think that this vaporizer should evolve in taste, just like a tobacco pipe. It will never return to baseline...both in taste, and aesthetics. The oils from the vapor, and your hands, will permeate the wood and change its colour over time... in a year, your vaporizer will look and taste different than anyone elses. It's taste would be shaped by what herbs you vape... and much like a well made tobacco pipe, it should only become better with age!
I know this is a new concept with modern vapes, but.. I totally dig that shit, haha.
Breathemetal
Well-Known Member
I say go with wood
I think you have to consider that smoke and vapor are two different things. To take out the moisture of the vapor that alone will make it harsh on the end user. You have to remember a lot of people are looking for the cool vapor because the nature of the herbs and what they use it for, many can not smoke and have throat issue this is why they look for vapor because it is smoother and with moisture it is perfect for the person who needs herbal sessions.
natural farmer
Well-Known Member
Hey @Dan Morrison ! Any updates on your vapor beauty? Need any help maybe to speed things up? I can wash, cook, clean up the place, I don't make much noise… 
Okay, here are some updates.
The vaporizer design is pretty much set in my mind, so I've started to focus on the case design. I want the case to be equally important to the overall experience.
I went through many different variations, but this is what I've settled with for now...
Here is the link to the image for fullsize viewing, http://i.cubeupload.com/xAVpFB.jpg
I'll explain a little bit about what is going on here, because I know it appears confusing at first.
The case holds two wheels inside of it, one of the left side that holds charcoals, and one on the right that holds herbs. The right side of the case shows the two wheels which can be turned with your thumb. The wheels are turned to align the chambers with the two holes on the top of the case.
In the closed position, the steel lid is held on by a large magnet, and locked to the wooden side under a dovetail.
To load the vaporizer, the herb chamber is placed into the hole on the right side of the case, with the wheel turned to reveal the herb chamber you want to empty. The case is flipped upside down, and the herb chamber dispenses the herbs into the vaporizer. The wheel can then be turned to the closed position.
Only the steel lid is removable for cleaning. The charcoal dispenser wheel is permanently hidden within the wooden case. This is both for easier manufacture, and because the wheel won't have to be cleaned of sticky herb residue and powder. The steel lid can be removed, and the wheel cleaned if needed. Depending on how the prototype turns out, I may incorporate a felt gasket on the top of the herb wheel, both to protect against fine particles getting trapped between the wheel and the steel top plate, and to create a bit of resistance while turning the wheel. If I don't use a felt gasket, the top of the wheel will be waxed with beeswax and lapped perfectly flat for a near perfect union with the steel top plate.
The vaporizer itself is stored inside of the removable case which is held onto the side of the main case with magnets. This is also held together with a bar magnet, and tiny steel pin that will lock the lid from rotating.
The smaller case can hold a pre-loaded vaporizer (one chamber full, and one charcoal, good for a single one person session) for times when you don't want to carry the main case with you. Two button magnets will be supplied, they can be used to clip the smaller case onto fabrics or backpacks... You could stick it to the outside of your jeans, or shirt, or backpack, or whatever. The same can be done with the main case, if you want it stick it to the outside of your jean pocket or something like that.
Aesthetically, I am going for a minimal vibe here. The wood will be most likely beech, because it is quite stable over time, it's local, and has a very nice grain structure and aged appearance over time. The steel will have a flat lapped underside, but the top will have a traditional rusted finish, which will be waxed to seal the steel from further rusting. This finish has a long history of use in Japanese metalwork, and have a very natural feel to it. The steel will give the case some weight to it, which is a trade-off in portability, but I think it makes up for it in how it will feel in the hand.
Anyhow, I'd love to answer questions, and get some feedback!
The vaporizer design is pretty much set in my mind, so I've started to focus on the case design. I want the case to be equally important to the overall experience.
I went through many different variations, but this is what I've settled with for now...
Here is the link to the image for fullsize viewing, http://i.cubeupload.com/xAVpFB.jpg
I'll explain a little bit about what is going on here, because I know it appears confusing at first.
The case holds two wheels inside of it, one of the left side that holds charcoals, and one on the right that holds herbs. The right side of the case shows the two wheels which can be turned with your thumb. The wheels are turned to align the chambers with the two holes on the top of the case.
In the closed position, the steel lid is held on by a large magnet, and locked to the wooden side under a dovetail.
To load the vaporizer, the herb chamber is placed into the hole on the right side of the case, with the wheel turned to reveal the herb chamber you want to empty. The case is flipped upside down, and the herb chamber dispenses the herbs into the vaporizer. The wheel can then be turned to the closed position.
Only the steel lid is removable for cleaning. The charcoal dispenser wheel is permanently hidden within the wooden case. This is both for easier manufacture, and because the wheel won't have to be cleaned of sticky herb residue and powder. The steel lid can be removed, and the wheel cleaned if needed. Depending on how the prototype turns out, I may incorporate a felt gasket on the top of the herb wheel, both to protect against fine particles getting trapped between the wheel and the steel top plate, and to create a bit of resistance while turning the wheel. If I don't use a felt gasket, the top of the wheel will be waxed with beeswax and lapped perfectly flat for a near perfect union with the steel top plate.
The vaporizer itself is stored inside of the removable case which is held onto the side of the main case with magnets. This is also held together with a bar magnet, and tiny steel pin that will lock the lid from rotating.
The smaller case can hold a pre-loaded vaporizer (one chamber full, and one charcoal, good for a single one person session) for times when you don't want to carry the main case with you. Two button magnets will be supplied, they can be used to clip the smaller case onto fabrics or backpacks... You could stick it to the outside of your jeans, or shirt, or backpack, or whatever. The same can be done with the main case, if you want it stick it to the outside of your jean pocket or something like that.
Aesthetically, I am going for a minimal vibe here. The wood will be most likely beech, because it is quite stable over time, it's local, and has a very nice grain structure and aged appearance over time. The steel will have a flat lapped underside, but the top will have a traditional rusted finish, which will be waxed to seal the steel from further rusting. This finish has a long history of use in Japanese metalwork, and have a very natural feel to it. The steel will give the case some weight to it, which is a trade-off in portability, but I think it makes up for it in how it will feel in the hand.
Anyhow, I'd love to answer questions, and get some feedback!
The entire case will be around 3 3/8" long X 2 1/4" wide X 1 1/8" thick. Give or take...
LuckySeed777
Well-Known Member
Will you offer the vape without the case to meet different price points? Love the idea of the dugout case but would like to buy the vape first and add the case later. I'm really excited about this vape! Would be perfect for concerts (Have to resort to jays and blunts at concerts. Don't Wana loose my vapes) and when chillin with smoker friends. I understand it's just a prototype but do you have an estimate of what your thinking of charging for the kit?
I will most likely offer the vape with just the small magnetic case. You would be able to sub in your own charcoal/herb carrying methods. And if you wanted to upgrade, I would send out the second half of the case that would fit with the small case you already have.
Price, I am really not sure. It's just too early to make a proper estimate. A super rough estimate is $350-$500 for the entire package. Could be less, could be more... depends how complex I decide to make the final product.
Just keep in mind that it will be completely hand built in my shop, in relatively small numbers. This will be a design that is built to last a lifetime.
Price, I am really not sure. It's just too early to make a proper estimate. A super rough estimate is $350-$500 for the entire package. Could be less, could be more... depends how complex I decide to make the final product.
Just keep in mind that it will be completely hand built in my shop, in relatively small numbers. This will be a design that is built to last a lifetime.
My original idea is to use a spindle mount or felt gasket that gives the wheel enough friction so that it won't move unless you actually turn it with your finger. The wheel dials will be inset about a millimeter from the outside of the case, so it won't turn if you are pushing it down into a backpack or jeans pocket. In practice, this could be an issue, but I won't know until I test it.
If it turns out to be a problem, it wouldn't be too hard to design a few locking pins into this design, but I just want to start with the more simple design and go from there.
If it turns out to be a problem, it wouldn't be too hard to design a few locking pins into this design, but I just want to start with the more simple design and go from there.
natural farmer
Well-Known Member
I would love it if the vape only won't cost more than 150$... Another 50-70$ for the case maybe and a 100$ more for the dispenser. And that's if it works well indeed. I wonder if there is enough temp variation by changing the draw. Can you one-hit the load or take 10-20 smaller and tastier draws?