the Michael Brown thread

[2clicker]

they are saying that they tear gassed a group who would not leave the middle of the street.

RUmors are twitter cofounder @Jack has been arrested protesting.

now the word is that he was escorted out

 

[grokit]

State of emergency declared by gov, midnight curfew (martial law) in effect:

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/17/us/ferguson-missouri-protests.html?partner=rss&emc=rss

 

[Madcap79]

I've never really understood the rioting aspect of 'venting your frustrations'. Especially when it's your own neighborhood. Makes no sense at all.

 

[KidFated.]

Sooo was brown shot in the back??

Here in Minnesota (along with everywhere else) if you take the permit to carry a concealed weapon course, you are educated on all the laws on if you need to unholster your weapon.

If you shoot someone in the back, that is not self defense. It is a murder shot. Plain and fuckin simple.

Thanks for getting my brain moving this morning everyone. Good read, very sad situation all around.

 

[2clicker]

I've never really understood the rioting aspect of 'venting your frustrations'. Especially when it's your own neighborhood. Makes no sense at all.

my heart agrees with this, but my brain tells me that w/out having lived under their oppression one cannot really say how they would react.

Sooo was brown shot in the back??

Here in Minnesota (along with everywhere else) if you take the permit to carry a concealed weapon course, you are educated on all the laws on if you need to unholster your weapon.

If you shoot someone in the back, that is not self defense. It is a murder shot. Plain and fuckin simple.

Thanks for getting my brain moving this morning everyone. Good read, very sad situation all around.

the eyewitnesses have all stated the first shot (that strikes him) was in the back. then MB turns hands in the air and is shot in the chest area i would assume. the number of total shots has yet to be released.

 

[Madcap79]

I understand that but what sense does it make to say, 'Hey, we live in shitty conditions and get treated like shit. Let's make all that worse and fuck up our neighborhood!' Your oppressors aren't going to give a shit. Wouldn't it make more sense to go to Ladue and such places and fuck shit up there. Imho, looting and trashing your own neighborhood is pure ignorance.

 

[aesthyrian]

'Hey, we live in shitty conditions and get treated like shit.

You just explained their mindset and condition. It's called desperation, and when you see no reasonable solution I suppose you resort to desperate measures.

Let's also remember that most of the protesters are peaceful and do not support the looting, however the military-like assault is happening on these peaceful protesters from what I have seen, and not on the looters.


This is starting to remind me of a great documentary called Burma VJ. In that documentary the country made it illegal to publicly gather in groups larger than 10, if you did so, they gave you a few short warnings much like the police in Ferguson are doing, then they would begin their march on the peaceful assembly of citizens. In Burma they used live ammo though, and killed journalist.

We always have the right to assemble peacefully, no matter what time of day. Further suppressing freedoms is not going to make anyone in Fergusion feel safer or respected.

 

[2clicker]

I understand that but what sense does it make to say, 'Hey, we live in shitty conditions and get treated like shit. Let's make all that worse and fuck up our neighborhood!' Your oppressors aren't going to give a shit. Wouldn't it make more sense to go to Ladue and such places and fuck shit up there. Imho, looting and trashing your own neighborhood is pure ignorance.

oh i feel ya. i just know that i could never understand. and really the ones looting n shit are a small portion of individuals compared to the protestors. some of which in this group are probably just assholes to begin with. every community has their share of just shitty people.

 

[Madcap79]

I know. I'm not saying one side is right and one isn't. To me, the looters are just using this unfortunate situation as an excuse to steal shit. I'm not on 'the man's' side, trust me, but do you honestly think this will help the relationship between police and the citizens?

Obviously, the militarized police is way excessive. I don't think riot gear is necessary. The funny thing is, a lot of the funding for the military style equipment comes from the drug war.

 

[2clicker]

To me, the looters are just using this unfortunate situation as an excuse to steal shit.

there are absolutely individuals using this as an excuse. denying that would be ignorant however i also know that is only the case with some of them. the others are beyond furious at how their community is treated by its LE and are exploding with frustration and desperation. its a dangerous situation to say the least.

 

[grokit]

Empathy in very short supply these days and it's almost impossible for someone that hasn't grown up with a lifetime of being oppressed to have any for these people when they act out like criminals and even animals. As if they didn't have enough issues, many of these people have lived all their lives in "food deserts" where every thing they can get to eat comes in a box or bag from that same convenience store that sells cigars. So lacking decent nutrition from day one, their brains aren't even functioning quite properly which just adds to their desperation and perverts their actions. So while I agree that these actions can be based upon ignorance, this ignorance is just another sign of the oppression they've lived under their whole lives in what has evidently been something of a war zone for a generation now. And this new generation doesn't even listen to the old; there's yet another nyt article about just that, that there is a generational polarity here.

They're not all acting out: "Early Saturday morning, the divisions became even more evident during a four-hour standoff with the police. One group, some of its members wearing bandannas, broke into a liquor store and left clutching bottles of alcohol. But at other retail outlets, like a beauty supply store, demonstrators blocked the looters’ way. Arguments ensued on the streets, with some people pleading to avoid confrontations, while others tried to encourage the crowd to take on law enforcement officers."

 

[Madcap79]

I never said they were all looting. I understand they live in shitty situations. I understand they have been oppressed their whole life. It's good to see members of the community helping to clean up the aftermath.

Food may cause ignorance, if that's what you are implying, but you don't think people of all races eat like shit? Even if quality food is available? Ignorance runs rampant in this world. Media has glorified ignorance and knee jerk reactions. Looks at news outlets and reality tv for example.

Random ramblings of the guy (me) that's pissed because his flight has been delayed 5 times after spending a week in Monterrey MX. First world problems.

 

[hanfhead]

Sooo was brown shot in the back??

Here in Minnesota (along with everywhere else) if you take the permit to carry a concealed weapon course, you are educated on all the laws on if you need to unholster your weapon.

If you shoot someone in the back, that is not self defense. It is a murder shot. Plain and fuckin simple.

Thanks for getting my brain moving this morning everyone. Good read, very sad situation all around.

Yes they are saying he was shot in the back. And the laws for ccw permit holders are not the same as the ones police are required to abide by. They are legally allowed to shoot a fleeing suspect in some circumstances. In my state's ccw course you are taught that you are only allowed to use your weapon to stop physical harm to yourself or another.

 

[Madcap79]

Yes they are saying he was shot in the back. And the laws for ccw permit holders are not the same as the ones police are required to abide by. They are legally allowed to shoot a fleeing suspect in some circumstances. In my state's ccw course you are taught that you are only allowed to use your weapon to stop physical harm to yourself or another.

Is it legal to shoot a fleeing suspect multiple times that has stopped, put his hands in the air and is unarmed?

Also, the Missouri governor and the US attorney general both said it was stupid to release the 'robbery' tape.

 

[Caligula]

I've never really understood the rioting aspect of 'venting your frustrations'. Especially when it's your own neighborhood. Makes no sense at all.

 

[hanfhead]

Is it legal to shoot a fleeing suspect multiple times that has stopped, put his hands in the air and is unarmed?

Also, the Missouri governor and the US attorney general both said it was stupid to release the 'robbery' tape.

I never said this case was legal or that what happened was right, only that police live by a different set of laws due to the nature of their jobs.

And whether he knows he was a robbery suspect will no doubt be brought up in court; they just wanted to make sure everyone sees it for when it gets withheld from the jurors.

 

[grokit]

Food may cause ignorance, if that's what you are implying, but you don't think people of all races eat like shit? Even if quality food is available? Ignorance runs rampant in this world. Media has glorified ignorance and knee jerk reactions. Looks at news outlets and reality tv for example.

It's more like a lack of proper nutrition for the developing brain, that can cause adhd/autism-type issues, for which there really isn't any help available. The parents are mostly helpless against many of these dynamics, even if their brain was allowed to develop properly, which contributes to the dysfunctional generation gap. More economically advantaged people can go online and explore alternative health options for these type of issues, which all cost money and are generally not covered by medicaid/care/hmo plans. This is all along with the widespread ptsd issues that being born into an oppressive quasi-war zone will help to facilitate. It's no wonder that these kids are acting out; their ptsd-driven survival instinct is to fight back somehow.

 

[Caligula]

Heh, don't we all love it when nothing is our own fault?

IMO, this is extremely similar to the whole "affluenza defense" malarkey. If you recall, a rich teenager was given probation for killing 4 people and injuring a bunch of others while driving drunk in a car he stole.from his parents. The defense stated that he was never taught right from wrong and was always told that his money buys him privilege. Therefore it's not his fault, he's just a product of the system.

Quite understandably there was a bit of shock and outrage at that defense gaining legal traction and actually working for the defendant.

IMO the theory in the reply above is the equivalent defense for those living under the polar opposite side of the socio-economic spectrum.

"I'm not dysfunctional... the system is, and I'm just a product of it."

Sounds familiar.

Basically, I think people need to take more responsibility for their own actions instead of laying blame with others.

Edit: Sorry I failed to address the nutritional aspect. Quite honestly, there arr only a handful of recent studies suggesting links (and not even direct causality in most cases) between developmental nutrition, ADHD and/or autism. There is by no means any proof, or even general scientific/medical consensus, that this is a direct cause for said ailments.

IMO, stating that there is a direct relation like it's a proven scientific fact is a little disingenuous.

To bring that full circle, however, it would make sense for someone to latch on to any evidence which offered an explanation as to why it's not their fault (assuming that's what they are looking for). That would fall directly in line with human nature IMO, so there's no surprise that many a laymans blog tour these things as fact.

Not saying anyone is wrong here (my point is that we really don't know yet), but it's enough to give someone pause if they are giving this some critical thinking.

I say we let the researchers, doctors, and scientists do their work in the field while concentrating on things that will make a difference without question. I'd like to think personal accountability, and taking responsibility for ourselves, our families, and our communities is towards the top of that list.

 

[Chill Dude]

"I'm not dysfunctional... the system is, and I'm just a product of it.

Basically, I think people need to take more responsibility for their own actions instead of laying blame with others

I'd like to think personal accountability, and taking responsibility for ourselves, our families, and our communities is towards the top of that list.

The system IS dysfunctional and we're ALL products of said dysfunction(to a certain extent). I believe there is a lot of truth to that statement. The systemic dysfunction being more pervasive and damaging to those at the lowest end of the socio economic ladder.

It would be ridiculous to assume that that there exists a level playing field for all and if you work hard it doesn't matter what your socio economic struggles are.... You have an equal shot at success as does the son of a CEO. That's been a major talking point for the conservative far right wing whack jobs for years!!

Although while I sincerely believe that people should take personal responsibility for themselves and their families as much as possible; I also believe that it is much harder to do that without the money,education, family support and other resources readily available to the rich and privileged class. Therefore, I reject the right wing view of "personal responsibility" as it assumes we're all on equal ground which clouldn't be further from the truth!!

 

[grokit]

"Every 1 point increase in dietary pattern score was associated with a 1.67 fall in IQ."
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/02/110207225943.htm

also:
http://www.diseaseproof.com/archive...-a-healthy-diet-to-build-a-healthy-brain.html
and one of my favorites:
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2013/06/20/gut-brain-connection.aspx

Or do your own web search for: "processed food developing brain", there's a ton of information.

Of course the "science isn't really in yet", so low-income kids are being "experimented" on, with no controls in place much like fluoridated water. Might as well err on the side of throwing caution to the wind, eh?

http://www.veteranstoday.com/2014/0...-missouri-this-is-what-martial-law-looks-like

 

[2clicker]

The system IS dysfunctional and we're ALL products of said dysfunction(to a certain extent). I believe there is a lot of truth to that statement. The systemic dysfunction being more pervasive and damaging to those at the lowest end of the socio economic ladder.

It would be ridiculous to assume that that there exists a level playing field for all and if you work hard it doesn't matter what your socio economic struggles are.... You have an equal shot at success as does the son of a CEO. That's been a major talking point for the conservative far right wing whack jobs for years!!

Although while I sincerely believe that people should take personal responsibility for themselves and their families as much as possible; I also believe that it is much harder to do that without the money,education, family support and other resources readily available to the rich and privileged class. Therefore, I reject the right wing view of "personal responsibility" as it assumes we're all on equal ground which clouldn't be further from the truth!!

agreed. things are extremely unequal. and the gov wants to keep it that way. look at the schools in these types of areas. every year the test scoring and numbers of students that graduate are decreasing. and the education systems then say "well as a school you are not performing up to state standards so you will be receiving less money from us". when really the schools that struggle like this need MORE funding and attention. the system is set up that way for a reason. to keep poor people poor and uneducated.

this song is the first thing i think of when rioting and looting happens somewhere. that and bob marleys lootin and burnin.

 

[grokit]

I love those two songs as well.
Many do, perhaps because anarchy is what this country was founded upon.

“Every generation needs a new revolution.”
~ Thomas Jefferson​

 

[dorkus_molorkus]

I like my riots live thanks.

Here is some live feeds out of ferguson.

www.liveleak.com/view?i=18f_1408331354

the st louis police scanner

http://www.ustream.tv/channel/st-louis-county-police-scanner


live stream

http://new.livestream.com/timcast/events/3295551

Its a bit nuts right now.

 

[olivianewtonjohn]

I feel like focusing on the riots is really a distraction. Having a debate about the looting also a distraction. The initial issue and cops firing tear gas at reporters and acting CRAZY is alot more important than the distractions.

Here is a clip of a protest that happened a few years ago. (read the captions at the top of the video, contains important info). Notice the random firing in the crowd because someone said, "fucking pigs". Notice the firing on reporters (because they were with the protestors and not with the cops like the other reporters).

I for one think cops need to be held to a HIGHER standard than civilians. Macing occupy protestors and getting a paid vacation is not cool. If you or I did that we would be in a cage. Police should be a profession that citizens are not scared of and actually honor/respect like an ambulance worker or firefighter.

EDIT: Im sure everyone has seen this but just incase:

 

[grokit]

At about 15 minutes until midnight ferguson time, nothing like surfing fc on one monitor and watching live feeds of swat police on the other. The comments on livestream are quite nasty/revealing.