m0sh
Singer Song Writer Stoner
I don't think that whip is going anywhere...
I don't see a better solution when I'm laying in my bed...
The future of vapourizing
- Thread starter m0sh
- Start date
I don't think that whip is going anywhere...
I don't see a better solution when I'm laying in my bed...
I've agreed to write about 1500 words or so on the future of vapourizing. The challenge is to do it without mentioning the stoned elephant over in the corner. I've been asking some of the manufacturers for their thoughts, but it occurred to me that I should also ask the FC hive mind. I know some of you have thought about this. For example, this is from another thread, Whip vs. Bag:
I agree that cooling and GonG will become more common, but I don't agree that they'll replace whips and bags. Neither cooling nor GonG are big factors in portables, which is that segment that I think will dominate the future of vapourizing for some time to come.
Discuss.
Edit: Bah. I moved a response here and it turned into the first post.
I agree that cooling and GonG will become more common, but I don't agree that they'll replace whips and bags. Neither cooling nor GonG are big factors in portables, which is that segment that I think will dominate the future of vapourizing for some time to come.
Discuss.
Edit: Bah. I moved a response here and it turned into the first post.
fake name
Well-Known Member
The future of cannabis consumption has to be a big factor in the future of vaping. A large shift towards concentrates has taken place, and this directly effects the vaporizer market. If the trend towards hash and oils continue, then the market will shift more so in that direction.
As batteries continue to Improve, any qualms with the portable market will continue to dissipate. I also believe that the concentrates will help grow the portables, for those that like a large rip and for those that like to have something give off hundreds of hit on a single pack, like the omicron.
With dispensaries I am interested in The future of pre-loaded carts that they will do for some of the pen style errl vaporizers. This will be interesting to see if people prefer preloaded or filling their own.
As batteries continue to Improve, any qualms with the portable market will continue to dissipate. I also believe that the concentrates will help grow the portables, for those that like a large rip and for those that like to have something give off hundreds of hit on a single pack, like the omicron.
With dispensaries I am interested in The future of pre-loaded carts that they will do for some of the pen style errl vaporizers. This will be interesting to see if people prefer preloaded or filling their own.
I agree completely that despite e-cigs, cannabis will shape the future of vapourizing. Since it's mostly illegal, everyone is pretending the emperor is adorned in a gorgeous robe of woven gold-pressed latinum. As I said, writing around that is my challenge.
I like your point about concentrates. We've reached energy densities that allow pocket vapourizer designs that are powerful enough to handle them. I think battery development will be second only to cannabis legalization in its influence on vapourizing. They are already marketing batteries specifically designed for high drain applications like vapourizers.
jardri
Vapor Dreams
I think the future will be laser-heating devices able to step from 0 to 230º in a fraction of second. The main problem in direct draw vaporizers is draw speed. We try to draw at a steady rythm but that is impossible so while we vape huge temperature differential is created. Perfect vaporization requires perfect airflow. But if we could measure that draw intensity in real time we could use a laser heater electronically controlled so temp variation would be in theory +/- 0,001º C (In a perfect non-thermodinamic world). If this technology were developed heaters size would be a fraction and it would consume the power of a torchlight.
well, it takes more than just having the heater reach vape temp ... the heat must be absorbed by the trichomes, which may be hidden behind plant material - or are you talking about hash/oil?
Depends on the vape design. my vape maintains correct temperature regardless of draw speed -- no temp differential is created. That being true, a long slow draw is still most effective to allow the air to absorb the heat to deliver to the herb (convection vape, with some infrared radiation effect) -- since my heater is only 1" long. The Cloud, on the other hand, has a 6" heater length of larger volume, and since its heater is also not affected by draw speed, delivers a massive amount of vape temp air to the herb.
i think the main problem with direct draw vaporizers is dynamic temperature control -- few have this.
well, that's beyond my physics knowledge ... is that an efficient process?
Hi HD, pleased to see you join in. I hope you don't take this the wrong way, but you're a classic example of what I fear might be an endangered species: the independent vapourizer inventor. Most of the current variations on vapourizers came from a sort of "cottage industry" that allowed a lot of innovative trial and error. A small group or even one man could get something out there, get good feedback, and improve the product without being buried. Most of the well-known vapourizers are still made by small companies, but I worry that this won't last. Do you think that we'll see it get tougher for the inventors like yourself? Will corporations like Ploom dominate with sizzle and big advertising dollars?
lwien
Well-Known Member
While large companies will no doubt get into this business, I think it will still be the small entrepreneur/tinkerer/inventor that will push the envelope, if you will. And.......there will always be room for that craftsman that will offer the market something hand built and unique that a large corporation cannot provide simply because they must operate on "economy of scale".
Edit: Just thought of something. A bit OT, but it kinda fits.
Here, as well as at a few other sites, vaporbonging thru very warm/hot water is beginning to take off and it very well may overtake the whole idea of ice pinches and such. I've been a fan of hot water vapor bonging for awhile now and my ONLY pet peeve with this is keeping the water in the bong at a decent temperature because it cools off quite quickly and then I have to go through the hassle of reheating water and replacing it in the bong.
I know that if someone came up with a nice bong or beaker that incorporated a heating element that kept the water at the desired temperature (kinda like an electric tea kettle), I would buy it in a heart beat and if ANYONE takes this idea, runs with it, and it becomes viable……..know this. I will find you and demand a cut.
Edit: Just thought of something. A bit OT, but it kinda fits.
Here, as well as at a few other sites, vaporbonging thru very warm/hot water is beginning to take off and it very well may overtake the whole idea of ice pinches and such. I've been a fan of hot water vapor bonging for awhile now and my ONLY pet peeve with this is keeping the water in the bong at a decent temperature because it cools off quite quickly and then I have to go through the hassle of reheating water and replacing it in the bong.
I know that if someone came up with a nice bong or beaker that incorporated a heating element that kept the water at the desired temperature (kinda like an electric tea kettle), I would buy it in a heart beat and if ANYONE takes this idea, runs with it, and it becomes viable……..know this. I will find you and demand a cut.
Yes, vapourizers are simple enough that I think there'll always be a place for the log vapes and similar. Since I can't put this in the article, I guess I might as well expand on it there.
I think we're moving toward cannabis acceptance, but we're coming from a largely underground cannabis culture. I don't think that 100% legalization tomorrow would change that easily. There won't be a sudden massive influx of new marijuana users, except that you might be surprised who comes out of that closet. Our cannabis culture is used to and supportive of the little guys. I am curious to see how welcome the corporations would be.
lwien
Well-Known Member
Paka, see my edit above.
Regarding large corporations getting into the cannabis business, I read somewhere that a major tobacco company is already on board to produce "joints" when the time is right. Being that cannabis is and always will be an intoxicant, I think major corporations that currently exist and that are not currently in the intoxicant business (cigarettes and alcohol), it would be too far removed from their core business plan to get involved.
Edit: Thinking a bit more, large medical device companies (that make glucose testers, insulin injectors, etc) may get involved in the vaporizer business in regards to medical cannabis delivery systems. I can even see those systems being able to provide a digital readout as to the dosages that are being provided (specifically thc/cbd/cbn's) by being able to analyze what cannabinoids are being delivered and that they could be programed to give out those predetermined dosages at specific intervals.
Regarding large corporations getting into the cannabis business, I read somewhere that a major tobacco company is already on board to produce "joints" when the time is right. Being that cannabis is and always will be an intoxicant, I think major corporations that currently exist and that are not currently in the intoxicant business (cigarettes and alcohol), it would be too far removed from their core business plan to get involved.
Edit: Thinking a bit more, large medical device companies (that make glucose testers, insulin injectors, etc) may get involved in the vaporizer business in regards to medical cannabis delivery systems. I can even see those systems being able to provide a digital readout as to the dosages that are being provided (specifically thc/cbd/cbn's) by being able to analyze what cannabinoids are being delivered and that they could be programed to give out those predetermined dosages at specific intervals.
As I think you know, tobacco conglomerates have already started buying e-cig companies. I know e-cigs and vapourizers are different beasts in almost every way, but e-cigs are further removed from tobacco than cannabis, and vapourizers can also use tobacco. I've been told by someone well placed in Big Pharma that they are drooling over cannabis and so I'm pretty sure the tobacco companies are no different.
A medical device such as you envision could well be in the future, but not yours or mine I'd think. We'll still be using log vapes and LBs. I was wondering whether we'd be typical or stubborn holdouts.
Here are my thoughts based on the discussion so far, and topics raised ...
i don't get the fascination with portables -- mobile, yeah, i want to take it from this room to that room, but i never go out (unless provoked), so vaping at my desk, tv chair, or bed is all i'm looking for. i think more and more people will spend more time at home - particularly as we (the boomers) age.
cooling? meh. bong water gets yucky too quickly, the bong is a pita to clean, and i don't want a bong leaking onto my keyboard. i find with a glass expansion chamber -- from 12mm x 35mm vial into 16mm x 150mm draw tube -- the vapor cools enough. i plan to get some 18mm or 25mm tubes soon to see where the sweet spot is.
re: concentrates. i have lived by the rule of "know your chemist, personally". so i eschew big pharm (i don't believe in allopathic medicine, any medicine for that matter). i will not be interested in what the big guys do in this market either in devices or concentrates.
re: batteries. research on batteries has only just begun. i'm looking forward to the energy storage and current flow of two 26650 LiFePO4s in a 2"x2"x1/4" thick square. But working with what's available, i am quite satisfied with a two cell power pack. i'm getting 12 sessions (90 minutes) from a charge which satisfies me for 2 to 3 days.
re: independent vaporizer inventor. i have limited expectations. i don't want to (at this point) be a major company. i'm focusing on techno-art projects. so i don't see Ploom or VXH or 7th Floor being any competition. This will be a seller's market for quite some time. so i agree with lwien's take on the craftsman market.
@lwien -- your bong water heater would be very easy to do. my heater does ambient to 500°F (auto upper limit cutoff) -- should be pretty efficient at that lower temp, too.
Also, legalization of cannabis does nothing to rescind the drug paraphernalia law that prohibits manufacture and sale of same. it might be useful for the big guys to spend some lobby money to get that fixed.
But otherwise, i don't see the big companies doing anything of interest. but, then again, i paint all the biggies as just another color of Monsanto. Yuck!
Ah! that's the Bud Toaster. So, no that's not too much.
i don't get the fascination with portables -- mobile, yeah, i want to take it from this room to that room, but i never go out (unless provoked), so vaping at my desk, tv chair, or bed is all i'm looking for. i think more and more people will spend more time at home - particularly as we (the boomers) age.
cooling? meh. bong water gets yucky too quickly, the bong is a pita to clean, and i don't want a bong leaking onto my keyboard. i find with a glass expansion chamber -- from 12mm x 35mm vial into 16mm x 150mm draw tube -- the vapor cools enough. i plan to get some 18mm or 25mm tubes soon to see where the sweet spot is.
re: concentrates. i have lived by the rule of "know your chemist, personally". so i eschew big pharm (i don't believe in allopathic medicine, any medicine for that matter). i will not be interested in what the big guys do in this market either in devices or concentrates.
re: batteries. research on batteries has only just begun. i'm looking forward to the energy storage and current flow of two 26650 LiFePO4s in a 2"x2"x1/4" thick square. But working with what's available, i am quite satisfied with a two cell power pack. i'm getting 12 sessions (90 minutes) from a charge which satisfies me for 2 to 3 days.
re: independent vaporizer inventor. i have limited expectations. i don't want to (at this point) be a major company. i'm focusing on techno-art projects. so i don't see Ploom or VXH or 7th Floor being any competition. This will be a seller's market for quite some time. so i agree with lwien's take on the craftsman market.
@lwien -- your bong water heater would be very easy to do. my heater does ambient to 500°F (auto upper limit cutoff) -- should be pretty efficient at that lower temp, too.
Also, legalization of cannabis does nothing to rescind the drug paraphernalia law that prohibits manufacture and sale of same. it might be useful for the big guys to spend some lobby money to get that fixed.
But otherwise, i don't see the big companies doing anything of interest. but, then again, i paint all the biggies as just another color of Monsanto. Yuck!
Ah! that's the Bud Toaster. So, no that's not too much.
Bluntcrush
Director of Vapor Research Labs™
Very interesting thread! I think about things like this all of the time! I will be very interested to take part in this discussion as well! Thanks for starting this thread!
OF
Well-Known Member
For those of us proven incapable of profiting from past mistakes, foretelling the future seems the next best option somehow......
One trend I've seen developing over time is the customer is becoming more educated, asking better questions, holding gear to higher standards. In those lines is a healthy interest (some might say bordering on a fetish) with materials that seems to be becoming more wide spread. Likewise, the interest in 'made in USA' products (or at least not 'made with child slave labor using lead based paint in China') seems on the rise. Folks are willing to pay extra for such factors, not often seen these days. Good things, IMO.
Fun topic.
OF
One trend I've seen developing over time is the customer is becoming more educated, asking better questions, holding gear to higher standards. In those lines is a healthy interest (some might say bordering on a fetish) with materials that seems to be becoming more wide spread. Likewise, the interest in 'made in USA' products (or at least not 'made with child slave labor using lead based paint in China') seems on the rise. Folks are willing to pay extra for such factors, not often seen these days. Good things, IMO.
Fun topic.
OF
VapeStL
Active Member
I tend to agree with OF's statement above, the internet offers us amazing amounts of information & communication. Good or bad is up to each of us to decide.
As a young american, in my brief 37 years i've witnessed our country change in ways that are hard to even imagine. We used to produce the best of the best, of nearly everything, in my lifetime. Sad to see it all go.
When i take on a hobby (or some other expensive distraction) I always try to buy Made in the USA first.
Keep your finger on the pulse of this movement. Due to the devastating US economy the last few years our manufacturing sectors are awakening & good things are happening all over. My recent ecig project is a decent test of my stance: All the asian made crap I bought is so bad & rudimentary that I dove into the TV Cera pre-order craze. I will spend more than I need to, but I expect to receive more than I asked for.
As a young american, in my brief 37 years i've witnessed our country change in ways that are hard to even imagine. We used to produce the best of the best, of nearly everything, in my lifetime. Sad to see it all go.
When i take on a hobby (or some other expensive distraction) I always try to buy Made in the USA first.
Keep your finger on the pulse of this movement. Due to the devastating US economy the last few years our manufacturing sectors are awakening & good things are happening all over. My recent ecig project is a decent test of my stance: All the asian made crap I bought is so bad & rudimentary that I dove into the TV Cera pre-order craze. I will spend more than I need to, but I expect to receive more than I asked for.
lwien
Well-Known Member
There is American made crap as well. It's just that American made crap is more expensive than Asian made crap. Chinese made crap from crap that originates in China is more than likely cloned crap. China is better at cloning crap rather than making their own crap. They're also good at making things that are not crap, as long as the instructions on how to make them come from somewhere else.
Japan, which is also Asian last time I looked, makes bad crap, good crap, and things that are not even crap at all.
And regarding the other 50 Asian countries, their crap varies all over the place.
And lets not even get into pre-crap farts, better known as crap that's presented but never materializes into real crap but rather just wafts it's way through the room getting everyone's attention.
I think, like the cell phone did as time progresses and our technology continues to advance as far as light weight durable composite materials I foresee vaporizers becoming more and more portable. Imagine something similar in size to a solo with a durable composite medical tube (similar material to the steele concept)running through the center not unlike the Cloud. You want a heavy hitter, plug the fucker in to make thick dense clouds - or - perhaps, unplug and it runs on batteries for smaller on the go hits! All this at the same time as having an open all glass (composite) air path. I could see the top being interchangeable with either a gong tip or direct draw. And....what if it had an add on accessory that you could place the device when plugged in on to a base that had....wait for it.......a fucking fan! Wham, with the change of the top you get a whip or damn bag vape! I should fucking patent this - whos in?
Shit...wheres SM55?
Shit...wheres SM55?
PaperClouds
Well-Known Member
I don't know if anything like this already exists, but instead of bags, perhaps using some sort of glass vessel. I know plastic is permeable and just doesn't taste good over time. This isn't really a huge improvement but if it's not already in use somewhere then some people(myself included) would enjoy not sucking on what is essentially a garbage bag. It's like how I made a waterfall for combusting out of glass and the difference between that and plastic is night and day.
If the technology exists that I'm speaking of, please direct me to where I can get one of these type of vapes.
If the technology exists that I'm speaking of, please direct me to where I can get one of these type of vapes.
Roger D
Vapor Wizard
You just gave me an idea
DIY automatic vape ripper 100% Glass. The one with two clear bottles. You cut the neck of the larger one, and the bottom of the small one. Sand where it is rough, clean it. Add water, adapter, rip.
I'm going to make one, already gathered the bottles and checked, I can manage a perfect seal on one. Really promising
PaperClouds
Well-Known Member
Go for gold! I'd love to see pictures, maybe even a video?