The Economy...

[reece]

It doesn't cut funding for social security. It cuts 2% of the social security tax payed by employees. The 2% will still be payed into social security albeit with borrowed money.

Everyone, not just the rich, will continue with the current tax rate for two years.

The problem is the Senate. Get out there and communicate with your senators to change the rules in the next session. Do you know how many judges they will not allow to be seated? How many bills passed the House only to die in the Senate at the whim of ONE senator?

http://www.congressmatters.com/storyonly/2010/12/2/143329/678

 

[finchrock24]

Want to make it all go away?

Three party system. Our old friend George Washington had it right when he said that the two party system would be the death of the nation. Perhaps what we are witnessing. People often forget that history repeats and I have likened the great US to the Roman Empire many different times. A lot of the problems that brought down the RE are weakening America, and to say that the RE and the US are different subjects is a stretch. Internal corruption (do i need to explain this one?), external pressures (seems like every country is putting the squeeze on the US for some reason or another), reckless financial systems...and this happened in 450AD!!!! We still can't get it right.

The greed of a few human beings and the control of our nation by 2 major groups will end our great nation. I firmly believe that with the proper government management, the US could be the super nation it once was. We could aid so many, help so many, but our leaders are too busy with re-elections, endorsements, and the media to care about anything real. its only a matter of time. and i'm sick of my Econ teacher telling us to be "optimistic young American's". There is not ONE thing our young Americans have to be optimistic or hopeful about. Thank you baby boomers for that.

 

[reece]

George Washington, if I remember correctly, warned against parties, period. Not the two party system.

Three parties will have people being elected even though the majority voted against them.

If you have nothing to be optimistic and hopeful about, you've already given up.

 

[finchrock24]

George Washington, if I remember correctly, warned against parties, period. Not the two party system.

Three parties will have people being elected even though the majority voted against them.

If you have nothing to be optimistic and hopeful about, you've already given up.

That may or may not be true. Think about all the candidates that don't have a shot (realistically) because they do not belong to dem or repub. Sure, here and there you'll find an independent that will have some success but we desperately need a third party to expose a new approach to our governmental system, in my opinion...unless you think our current parties and their system are working. I'm simply saying that a third party may help to break up the deep routed political lines of the repubs and dems.

You might be able to say that...I am seriously considering moving out of the US when my education is done. I didn't say i had nothing to be optimistic about in my personal life, but as an American looking at the economy, what would YOU say MY generation (18-24) have to be optimistic about?

EDIT: damn, this skunk has made my spelling and grammer atrocious!

 

[Pappy]

Three party system. Our old friend George Washington had it right when he said that the two party system would be the death of the nation.

The problem is the Senate. Get out there and communicate with your senators to change the rules in the next session.

I've pondered this for years and have concluded the only logical solution is....

 

[finchrock24]

Dear Pappy,

YES!

Sincerely yours,

Finch

 

[Vicki]

Well, I saw the title of the thread "The Economy," but after reading the majority of the posts made, it seems centered around politics. A topic I tend to stay away from.

That being said, I'll just say the economy sucks, and lots of people are suffering.

 

[finchrock24]

Yes, we should try to steer a bit more on course...but our kind tend to...ramble. Its a side affect. lol...

I really hope it improves soon...like I said, my Economics teacher seems to think things will turn around within 2 years...but I really haven't seen much to make me think that.

 

[aesthyrian]

The Economy and Politics are related in many cases, sorry.

 

[reece]

I've pondered this for years and have concluded the only logical solution is....

We already have term limits. It's called elections. Far too many of us are not paying attention and not even doing the very least that we can, which is voting.

Think about it. Let's say your representative is doing a good job and most of the people in your district agree. You want him to continue but because of term limits it is out of your hands.

I don't think any office should have term limits. A majority of the people should decide if one keeps office or not.

You might be able to say that...I am seriously considering moving out of the US when my education is done. I didn't say i had nothing to be optimistic about in my personal life, but as an American looking at the economy, what would YOU say MY generation (18-24) have to be optimistic about?

EDIT: damn, this skunk has made my spelling and grammer atrocious!

I'd say if most of your generation has that attitude then you are absolutely correct. Leaving the country surely won't help it. Get involved in your own self governance. Get others involved. The politicians work for us. But too many of us are uninvolved and quick to say "I'm leaving" at the first little sign of trouble. This little experiment wouldn't have made it this far if most had that attitude. It isn't perfect. It never was. But we have constantly progressed. There have been setbacks. There always will be. The answer is not to run away. This country will never be taken down from without. It will come from within. It will be because people left the country, because not enough of us are participating, and far too many of those participating are not paying attention (partially thanks to our almost non-existent press), which is not to say that everyone who pays attention will agree. Surely they won't, but then we can at least debate the issues honestly with real facts instead of BS talking points.

What you have to be optimistic about is YOU. Stop bitching and talking about running away and get out there and make a difference.

If you don't want to do that. If most those in your generation (a generation spans more than six years, doesn't it?) doesn't want to do that, then you're probably right, and you are definitely part of the problem.

 

[reece]

...

 

[finchrock24]

\

I'd say if most of your generation has that attitude then you are absolutely correct. Leaving the country surely won't help it. Get involved in your own self governance. Get others involved. The politicians work for us. But too many of us are uninvolved and quick to say "I'm leaving" at the first little sign of trouble. This little experiment wouldn't have made it this far if most had that attitude. It isn't perfect. It never was. But we have constantly progressed. There have been setbacks. There always will be. The answer is not to run away. This country will never be taken down from without. It will come from within. It will be because people left the country, because not enough of us are participating, and far too many of those participating are not paying attention (partially thanks to our almost non-existent press), which is not to say that everyone who pays attention will agree. Surely they won't, but then we can at least debate the issues honestly with real facts instead of BS talking points.

What you have to be optimistic about is YOU. Stop bitching and talking about running away and get out there and make a difference.

If you don't want to do that. If most those in your generation (a generation spans more than six years, doesn't it?) doesn't want to do that, then you're probably right, and you are definitely part of the problem.

While this is a good response...I don't really see any specific topics that relate to my question. I have taken part in every election process I have been able to since my 18th birthday. I definitely take part and enjoy the democratic process, so I don't really see what advice your offering. And I have every right to leave or stay, the US has a net immigration rate of 4.3 (which is defined by the CIA as an excess of entrances) so I don't think the US falling apart because peole leaving is a problem. And why should I be responsible for my father's generation and their inability to handle money? Its pretty elementary skills...spend less then you take in. Obviously, it doesn't work that simple, but I digress...

Also, I really don't think personal attacks are whats needed. Please refrain from calling my posts 'bitching' when I was just stimulating the topic at hand. Also, I highly doubt that I am the reason our political system is not working. As said above, I take pride in my "I Voted" sticker...maybe I'll tackle city counsel after I get out of school, but for now...thats as much participating as I can do.

And btw, not sure if you caught it or not, but I said I am optimistic about my personal life and family...so I am optimistic about myself, yes. The economy (which is what the topic is, right?) is a different story...

 

[reece]

I believe I am addressing an underlying problem in our society which your attitude, as expressed in your posts, exemplifies. Take care of it and we take care of the symptoms (economy, etc).

I did not mean to offend, it wasn't meant as a personal attack, obviously my choice of words made it seem so. I should have said stop complaining. My apologies.


However, I take offense when people criticize the way things are (or even worse, how bad it might be someday) and their solution is to leave the country. Of course it is your right. I never questioned that. It doesn't mean it's the right thing to do. If you're don't like the way it is, work to change it.

Voting isn't all you can do. Next to not voting it is the least you can do. You're spending time here complaining when you could be writing your senators and representative. Before the election you could have been working to get the vote out amongst those in your generation. Although you voted in the last election, too many of those in your generation did not. Most of those who voted in the presidential election couldn't be bothered to get out and vote in this midterm election.

And I'm not just talking to you. I'm talking to everyone here. I'm talking to myself. We all have lives. We all have things going on. But all of us can do more.

Don't get me wrong, at your age all I did was vote, and complain. I got cynical. At my current age I do more but not nearly enough. I am starting to understand that now. If you can understand it now, instead of 20 later, wow. If you can get others your age to understand it...

If the country you move to faces troubling times will you leave there for another place? If/when that country has trouble will you move to a fourth country? Will you just leave every time?

This country has faced trying times all throughout its short existence. We always get through it. But not by leaving when there's work to be done.

All I'm saying is, keep your educated mind, and passion here. Make your country better. "They" want you to think there is no hope. To the extent that things are screwed up, it is due to the fact that so many of us have bought into the idea that what "we" do doesn't matter.


If you don't understand how this answers your question, I don't know what else to say. It wouldn't be the first time I've had trouble getting my point across. Sometimes I just don't communicate very well.


Take care

 

[Purple-Days]

Term Limits pose several problems.

-Who is the leadership? Some guy that has been there 4 (or 6) years, who just got his feet wet? Assuming a two term limit.

-Lame ducks... with term limits everybody is a lame duck for at least half their service (if not all).

-Since, all Presidents nowdays are either Congressmen / Senators / Governors, and if you impose term limits, and since campaigning starts long before elections, you will be choosing Presidents from folks with Zero track record.

I'm not saying the current system is without flaws (not at all), but I think Reece hit it, terms are limited by voters.

Yes, I think Presidential term limits are a good thing. There is no higher office to move on to. And as the third (or fourth) leg of government and a singular position, well we decided we didn't want a King a long time ago.

 

[finchrock24]

I believe I am addressing an underlying problem in our society which your attitude, as expressed in your posts, exemplifies. Take care of it and we take care of the symptoms (economy, etc).

I did not mean to offend, it wasn't meant as a personal attack, obviously my choice of words made it seem so. I should have said stop complaining. My apologies.


However, I take offense when people criticize the way things are (or even worse, how bad it might be someday) and their solution is to leave the country. Of course it is your right. I never questioned that. It doesn't mean it's the right thing to do. If you're don't like the way it is, work to change it.

Voting isn't all you can do. Next to not voting it is the least you can do. You're spending time here complaining when you could be writing your senators and representative. Before the election you could have been working to get the vote out amongst those in your generation. Although you voted in the last election, too many of those in your generation did not. Most of those who voted in the presidential election couldn't be bothered to get out and vote in this midterm election.

And I'm not just talking to you. I'm talking to everyone here. I'm talking to myself. We all have lives. We all have things going on. But all of us can do more.

Don't get me wrong, at your age all I did was vote, and complain. I got cynical. At my current age I do more but not nearly enough. I am starting to understand that now. If you can understand it now, instead of 20 later, wow. If you can get others your age to understand it...

If the country you move to faces troubling times will you leave there for another place? If/when that country has trouble will you move to a fourth country? Will you just leave every time?

This country has faced trying times all throughout its short existence. We always get through it. But not by leaving when there's work to be done.

All I'm saying is, keep your educated mind, and passion here. Make your country better. "They" want you to think there is no hope. To the extent that things are screwed up, it is due to the fact that so many of us have bought into the idea that what "we" do doesn't matter.


If you don't understand how this answers your question, I don't know what else to say. It wouldn't be the first time I've had trouble getting my point across. Sometimes I just don't communicate very well.


Take care

I really do appreciate your response and it interesting to here your point of view...but you haven't really told me anything. your just saying "wait it out". Your just like everyone else. The young guns will fix it...they will think of something....why don't YOU guys fix it? OUR country shouldn't rely on the upcoming generation to fix the previous one that dereailed.

That is all i'm trying to say. I am a little surprised that you are so passionate about the the young people fixing all of your generations problems...why don't YOU get out and fix them? I'd love to write my congressmen a letter, but the dude is a complete joke that cares only about winning the next election in order to keep is job. I haven't once voted to keep him in, but when 70% of your district does. Infact, I'm so dissapointed in our governmental leaders that I usually try to NOT vote for the incumbent...unless he/she has proven they are worthy of me letting them keep their job. My point of view is that if our system isn't working right now, then why should we re-elect the same people (like my brilliant statesmen...re electing another failed politician on the brink of death from old age....WHY!?!)

Also, there is more to leaving the country then the economi/political CRISIS that the US is in. There are 192 nations that belong to the UN, living in 1 of those for my entire life seems to me like I'm missing out on a lot of culture and different people and lifestyles, couldn't you agree? That's like eating hot dogs everyday for dinner. And, like I said, it gets me out of this shit hole state (CA) I'm in...that is just the plus side.

 

[Pappy]

Let's say your representative is doing a good job and most of the people in your district agree. You want him to continue but because of term limits it is out of your hands.
I don't think any office should have term limits. A majority of the people should decide if one keeps office or not.

I respectfully and wholeheartedly disagree! Congress is an elite private club supported by K Street lobbyists back by big corporations whose entire motivation is to serve themselves and maintain their standing in the "D. C. Cushy Club" for the rest of the goddamned lives! I'll bet you can't name one member in Congress there to serve the people before themselves. Our founding fathers didn't intend for the Congress to be a retirement home for out of touch old fogies. Serving the government is like running in a marathon. It certainly should be an entitlement.

 

[reece]

Let's say your representative is doing a good job and most of the people in your district agree. You want him to continue but because of term limits it is out of your hands.
I don't think any office should have term limits. A majority of the people should decide if one keeps office or not.

I respectfully and wholeheartedly disagree! Congress is an elite private club supported by K Street lobbyists back by big corporations whose entire motivation to serve themselves and maintain their standing in the Cushy Club for the rest of the goddamned lives! I'll bet you can't name one member of Congress who's there to serve the people before themselves. Our founding fathers didn't intend for Congress to be a retirement home for out of touch old fogies. Serving the government is like running a marathon. It certainly should me an entitlement.

Our founders didn't intend for senators to be elected by the people. They put it in the Constitution along with many other things we have changed over time. They weren't perfect. In my opinion, the founder's intent is not a good enough argument to stand on its own. There has to other reasons.


Bernie Sanders, Jeff Merkeley, Ron Wyden, Dennis Kucinich, Ron Paul, Russ Feingold...What do I win?


Tom put it better than I did as far as the problems with term limits.

Term limits is another way of saying you don't trust the people. We can vote these guys out any time we want to, and we do. But we need the press to be an informed populace. An uniformed citizenry, even worse a misinformed citizenry believes all politicians are the same. They vote against their best interests. They vote on name recognition (one reason incumbents are usually hard to unseat). They vote according to political advertisements. They vote straight party line without regard for the individual candidates. They think all democrats/republicans are honest/corrupt.

There is a reason the press is mentioned in the First Amendment.

I understand where you're coming from. I'm a recovering cynic. It just isn't as simple as you make it out to be. It's a cop out. Have you really researched a good number of Congress members and their activities to come to that conclusion ("...entire motivation...")? Have you looked at their voting records and what they have to say about various topics?


I already know the answer. Because if you had, you wouldn't think they were all the same. You wouldn't think they were all corrupt.

 

[reece]

I really do appreciate your response and it interesting to here your point of view...but you haven't really told me anything. your just saying "wait it out". Your just like everyone else. The young guns will fix it...they will think of something....why don't YOU guys fix it? OUR country shouldn't rely on the upcoming generation to fix the previous one that dereailed.

That is all i'm trying to say. I am a little surprised that you are so passionate about the the young people fixing all of your generations problems...why don't YOU get out and fix them? I'd love to write my congressmen a letter, but the dude is a complete joke that cares only about winning the next election in order to keep is job. I haven't once voted to keep him in, but when 70% of your district does. Infact, I'm so dissapointed in our governmental leaders that I usually try to NOT vote for the incumbent...unless he/she has proven they are worthy of me letting them keep their job. My point of view is that if our system isn't working right now, then why should we re-elect the same people (like my brilliant statesmen...re electing another failed politician on the brink of death from old age....WHY!?!)

Also, there is more to leaving the country then the economi/political CRISIS that the US is in. There are 192 nations that belong to the UN, living in 1 of those for my entire life seems to me like I'm missing out on a lot of culture and different people and lifestyles, couldn't you agree? That's like eating hot dogs everyday for dinner. And, like I said, it gets me out of this shit hole state (CA) I'm in...that is just the plus side.

I'm saying the opposite of "wait it out." (am I really that unclear?) I'm saying work to change it. I'm asking you (collectively) to join us. Fact, people my age are more involved than people your age. Fact, those in my mother's and grandmother's generations are more involved than those my age. So I don't see how you can say older people are just waiting on younger ones to fix anything. We know better. We're waiting, hoping, begging you to stop sitting on the sidelines. What I'm hearing from you is a bunch of blaming others as justification for doing next to nothing.

All I'm hearing are excuses for why you can't be bothered to do more than you do. Guess what, those that don't agree with you, the ones that vote him in, are writing him. The crazies and extremists are communicating with him. He needs to hear from those that disagree with him also. They do pay attention. And if ever there comes a day when he gets more letters from actual voters saying they want him to act differently, he will because he knows he'll be voted out.


My goodness, you're in California? You just elected a governor and senator who were up against some serious financially backed opposition. That is no easy feat but it proves that when the people pay attention and ACT the corrupting influences can be held at bay.

Remember, they are our employees. Every so often we evaluate potential new hires as well as those currently in office to see if they keep their job. We hold the power, we just don't exercise it. Instead we fall into the trap that makes us believe we have no power. We get cynical. "They" win.


And I can certainly understand those reasons for going elsewhere. That's the reason I moved from Louisiana (talk about corruption) to Oregon. I would never fault you for that.

 

[lwien]

Well said, Reece. Well said.

It's not an either or situation regarding which generation does what. It's going to take all of us to affect change.

But the fact remains that the young voters sat it out on the mid-terms, and so.............we got what we got.

 

[Pappy]

ernie Sanders, Jeff Merkeley, Ron Wyden, Dennis Kucinich, Ron Paul, Russ Feingold...What do I win?

Tom put it better than I did as far as the problems with term limits.
Term limits is another way of saying you don't trust the people. We can vote these guys out any time we want to, and we do. But we need the press to be an informed populace. An uniformed citizenry, even worse a misinformed citizenry believes all politicians are the same. They vote against their best interests. They vote on name recognition (one reason incumbents are usually hard to unseat). They vote according to political advertisements. They vote straight party line without regard for the individual candidates. They think all democrats/republicans are honest/corrupt.
There is a reason the press is mentioned in the First Amendment.
I understand where you're coming from. I'm a recovering cynic. It just isn't as simple as you make it out to be. It's a cop out.

You make some good points including the fact I'm cynical. I studied your stated principles in high school civics. But my real world experience teaches me in action these principles don't hold water. You're 100% correct, I don't trust people! I judge deeds, not words, and in my world people earn my trust. For every Ron Paul or Dennis Kucinitch there are hundreds of spineless entitled phonies like John McCain or Harry Reid -- not to mention the frosh prototype, Michelle Bachman. Only God know whose pockets these assoles are in. I have nothing but contempt for them. They've mediocritized my country!

 

[finchrock24]

I really do appreciate your response and it interesting to here your point of view...but you haven't really told me anything. your just saying "wait it out". Your just like everyone else. The young guns will fix it...they will think of something....why don't YOU guys fix it? OUR country shouldn't rely on the upcoming generation to fix the previous one that dereailed.

That is all i'm trying to say. I am a little surprised that you are so passionate about the the young people fixing all of your generations problems...why don't YOU get out and fix them? I'd love to write my congressmen a letter, but the dude is a complete joke that cares only about winning the next election in order to keep is job. I haven't once voted to keep him in, but when 70% of your district does. Infact, I'm so dissapointed in our governmental leaders that I usually try to NOT vote for the incumbent...unless he/she has proven they are worthy of me letting them keep their job. My point of view is that if our system isn't working right now, then why should we re-elect the same people (like my brilliant statesmen...re electing another failed politician on the brink of death from old age....WHY!?!)

Also, there is more to leaving the country then the economi/political CRISIS that the US is in. There are 192 nations that belong to the UN, living in 1 of those for my entire life seems to me like I'm missing out on a lot of culture and different people and lifestyles, couldn't you agree? That's like eating hot dogs everyday for dinner. And, like I said, it gets me out of this shit hole state (CA) I'm in...that is just the plus side.

I'm saying the opposite of "wait it out." (am I really that unclear?) I'm saying work to change it. I'm asking you (collectively) to join us. Fact, people my age are more involved than people your age. Fact, those in my mother's and grandmother's generations are more involved than those my age. So I don't see how you can say older people are just waiting on younger ones to fix anything. We know better. We're waiting, hoping, begging you to stop sitting on the sidelines. What I'm hearing from you is a bunch of blaming others as justification for doing next to nothing.

All I'm hearing are excuses for why you can't be bothered to do more than you do. Guess what, those that don't agree with you, the ones that vote him in, are writing him. The crazies and extremists are communicating with him. He needs to hear from those that disagree with him also. They do pay attention. And if ever there comes a day when he gets more letters from actual voters saying they want him to act differently, he will because he knows he'll be voted out.


My goodness, you're in California? You just elected a governor and senator who were up against some serious financially backed opposition. That is no easy feat but it proves that when the people pay attention and ACT the corrupting influences can be held at bay.

Remember, they are our employees. Every so often we evaluate potential new hires as well as those currently in office to see if they keep their job. We hold the power, we just don't exercise it. Instead we fall into the trap that makes us believe we have no power. We get cynical. "They" win.


And I can certainly understand those reasons for going elsewhere. That's the reason I moved from Louisiana (talk about corruption) to Oregon. I would never fault you for that.

I guess I haven't made myself clear....

I;m not sure what you expect me (a college student) to do. I'd like to concentrate more on my education (something very worth while to me) before I tackle all the things wrong with government (in my opinion). 15 units of college courses, a job, debt, and many other things consume me, so I'm unable to put my politico crime fighter cape on.

It seems like all I hear from you is that you want ME (and people my age) to do something...and we are! WE are rebuilding the economy (or attempting to) through starting businesses, earning professional experiance, and earning degrees. As much energy as people my age have, we can't get 4.0s, keep up with social life, manage entry level jobs, and change the political world at the same time.

Who my state elected for governor means nothing....its an election and someone has to win, so I don't really see why your surprised JB won...he had a 50% chance anyway. Fact of the matter is he had 'the name', experience, and was republican (which we all know was the 'right' party this year at the mid-terms). I would have loved to see Meg win for the sole reason that she used her own money! I think that is admirable!

All i hear from you is that you think people my age are doing nothing...yet you haven't once given an example of what we can do! Write letters? Vote? Yes, that is all fine and good but at the end of the day the only does so much. (I'm not saying its in effective).

What makes you think "I'm" against "you"? I would love to see our nation strong again, but the simple fact is that I, personally, don't see that happening soon. I'm sick of seeing money taken out of my check that goes to no where, when i can use that money to pay for school.

 

[reece]

I guess I haven't made myself clear....

I;m not sure what you expect me (a college student) to do. I'd like to concentrate more on my education (something very worth while to me) before I tackle all the things wrong with government (in my opinion). 15 units of college courses, a job, debt, and many other things consume me, so I'm unable to put my politico crime fighter cape on.

It seems like all I hear from you is that you want ME (and people my age) to do something...and we are! WE are rebuilding the economy (or attempting to) through starting businesses, earning professional experiance, and earning degrees. As much energy as people my age have, we can't get 4.0s, keep up with social life, manage entry level jobs, and change the political world at the same time.

Who my state elected for governor means nothing....its an election and someone has to win, so I don't really see why your surprised JB won...he had a 50% chance anyway. Fact of the matter is he had 'the name', experience, and was republican (which we all know was the 'right' party this year at the mid-terms). I would have loved to see Meg win for the sole reason that she used her own money! I think that is admirable!

All i hear from you is that you think people my age are doing nothing...yet you haven't once given an example of what we can do! Write letters? Vote? Yes, that is all fine and good but at the end of the day the only does so much. (I'm not saying its in effective).

What makes you think "I'm" against "you"? I would love to see our nation strong again, but the simple fact is that I, personally, don't see that happening soon. I'm sick of seeing money taken out of my check that goes to no where, when i can use that money to pay for school.

Yes, Republican was the "right" party. Jerry Brown is a Democrat, who despite all of the money spent against him, and the "Republican wave," won. Do you see what I'm saying about paying attention now?

I've heard of single issue voters but using one's own money hardly qualifies a person to be governor in my opinion. So it doesn't matter what her policies are?

Most people your age are doing nothing. They aren't even voting. But as I've said already, most Americans are doing nothing. And the rest of us can do more. I've said that repeatedly. I'm not singling you out.

Which is it? Have I not "once given an example," or did I give the examples of writing letters and voting?
See what I'm saying about paying attention.

I have also given you examples of what you can do besides vote and write letters. Reread my posts if you really missed it. Educate yourself about what your taxes are used for. I can assure you it goes somewhere (police/fire, roads, financial aid for college...). Pay attention. You may not agree with every use, and of course there is some waste...

I think you're against me? I don't know what you are talking about.

If it isn't going to happen quickly it isn't worth doing? That's you're attitude? Those are unrealistic expectations.

I think we've gone over all the ground we can cover. We are starting to go in circles and you seem to be selective in what you are hearing from me and you are miss-characterizing what I'm saying.

Again, I'm don't mean to come off as holier than thou. I could certainly do more than I am. We all could, regardless of where we stand politically.

Take care.

 

[finchrock24]

I guess I haven't made myself clear....

I;m not sure what you expect me (a college student) to do. I'd like to concentrate more on my education (something very worth while to me) before I tackle all the things wrong with government (in my opinion). 15 units of college courses, a job, debt, and many other things consume me, so I'm unable to put my politico crime fighter cape on.

It seems like all I hear from you is that you want ME (and people my age) to do something...and we are! WE are rebuilding the economy (or attempting to) through starting businesses, earning professional experiance, and earning degrees. As much energy as people my age have, we can't get 4.0s, keep up with social life, manage entry level jobs, and change the political world at the same time.

Who my state elected for governor means nothing....its an election and someone has to win, so I don't really see why your surprised JB won...he had a 50% chance anyway. Fact of the matter is he had 'the name', experience, and was republican (which we all know was the 'right' party this year at the mid-terms). I would have loved to see Meg win for the sole reason that she used her own money! I think that is admirable!

All i hear from you is that you think people my age are doing nothing...yet you haven't once given an example of what we can do! Write letters? Vote? Yes, that is all fine and good but at the end of the day the only does so much. (I'm not saying its in effective).

What makes you think "I'm" against "you"? I would love to see our nation strong again, but the simple fact is that I, personally, don't see that happening soon. I'm sick of seeing money taken out of my check that goes to no where, when i can use that money to pay for school.

Yes, Republican was the "right" party. Jerry Brown is a Democrat, who despite all of the money spent against him, and the "Republican wave," won. Do you see what I'm saying about paying attention now?
No, paying attention and JB winning have no correlation.

I've heard of single issue voters but using one's own money hardly qualifies a person to be governor in my opinion. So it doesn't matter what her policies are? Did I say that didn't matter? Don't take words out of context...I said its admirable, in my opinion, that she used all her own money. That is all I said.

Most people your age are doing nothing. They aren't even voting. But as I've said already, most Americans are doing nothing. And the rest of us can do more. I've said that repeatedly. I'm not singling you out. I agree on this with you...its a lack of 'caring' by a majority of our countrymen that is doing us in....which is something I said back in one of my first posts about greed....

Which is it? Have I not "once given an example," or did I give the examples of writing letters and voting?
See what I'm saying about paying attention. Did YOU not pay attention? I asked for example other then what I have already done. Reading about taxes and policies is a good thing to do...knowledge is POWER (see above where I noted that education is extremely important) but that doesn't turn our gvt/economy around.

I have also given you examples of what you can do besides vote and write letters. Reread my posts if you really missed it. Educate yourself about what your taxes are used for. I can assure you it goes somewhere (police/fire, roads, financial aid for college...). Pay attention. You may not agree with every use, and of course there is some waste...

I think you're against me? I don't know what you are talking about.You said "Join us"....making it sound like I'm 'against' whoever 'your' with. Maybe its just the way you misused the term...not sure.

If it isn't going to happen quickly it isn't worth doing? That's you're attitude? Those are unrealistic expectations. Please tell me where I said that. I never once said that if it takes a while, it isn't worth doing...and you are right, that IS completely unrealistic. If i thought that was true, I wouldn't have learned guitar, become and architecture major, learn to build computers, learn aerobtics, etc.

I think we've gone over all the ground we can cover. We are starting to go in circles and you seem to be selective in what you are hearing from me and you are miss-characterizing what I'm saying.

Again, I'm don't mean to come off as holier than thou. I could certainly do more than I am. We all could, regardless of where we stand politically.

Take care.

Honestly...Reece, I just don't think you can understand the state of my state (lol). No offense, but you don't live here (have you ever lived in CA at any point in your life?) and you don't know how it is. You yourself said you left LA because of corruption...why didn't you stay their and write letters and vote for new leaders like you tell me to do? Don't just abandon your state...take your own advice!

 

[reece]

No, paying attention and JB winning have no correlation.

There is a correlation between paying attention and knowing the most basic information about the two recent gubernatorial candidates. I've never lived in California yet I know which candidate belongs to which party and you don't. You thought Brown was a shoe in because he is a Republican. No, Brown had an uphill battle because he is a Democrat and had far less money. And you voted, based on erroneous information, and have the nerve to say paying attention has no bearing on the results?

And as I'll prove below, you aren't even paying attention to what you are saying.

Did I say that didn't matter? Don't take words out of context...I said its admirable, in my opinion, that she used all her own money. That is all I said.

No, that is not all you said. You said:

I would have loved to see Meg win for the sole reason that she used her own money!

If that is the sole reason, other reasons don't matter.

Did YOU not pay attention? I asked for example other then what I have already done.

No. You said:

...yet you haven't once given an example of what we can do!

Then immediately followed that statement with two examples I gave you.

Write letters? Vote?

And as for more examples, I have already given them. Go back and read if you are sincerely interested.

You said "Join us"....making it sound like I'm 'against' whoever 'your' with. Maybe its just the way you misused the term...not sure.

Hmm. Or maybe it's the way you misinterpreted the entire conversation? What I said is we are waiting for you (meaning your generation) to join us in trying to fix the problems. Go back and read it.

Please tell me where I said that. I never once said that if it takes a while, it isn't worth doing...and you are right, that IS completely unrealistic. If i thought that was true, I wouldn't have learned guitar, become and architecture major, learn to build computers, learn aerobtics, etc.

What you said was:

I would love to see our nation strong again, but the simple fact is that I, personally, don't see that happening soon.

I took this as another one of your excuses for why you cannot do more, or why you're considering running away. That is what we are talking about, isn't it? What was your reason for saying this?

Honestly...Reece, I just don't think you can understand the state of my state (lol). No offense, but you don't live here (have you ever lived in CA at any point in your life?) and you don't know how it is. You yourself said you left LA because of corruption...

Again you miss-characterize...You said:

Also, there is more to leaving the country then the economi/political CRISIS that the US is in. There are 192 nations that belong to the UN, living in 1 of those for my entire life seems to me like I'm missing out on a lot of culture and different people and lifestyles, couldn't you agree?

That is the reason I left Louisiana. But you don't remember your own statement that I was replying to.

Can we end this now? I don't expect to change your mind. I just hope you can understand where I'm coming from. Someday.

 

[finchrock24]

I never once claimed JB was a republican. I was speaking in terms of as a whole nation...the repubs had the advantage this year. Show me where I sad JB was a republican?

My meg comment: I'm saying if she would have won, I would have been happy that she did it using her own money. I can see how my comment wasn't accurate. I should have reworded it differently. I'm not implying that her political views don't count...it is after all an election. I would hope that you have a little bit more respect for me, because this kinda implies that I just voted on a willy nilly reason without doing any sort of political research....and that kind of voting is almost as bad as not voting. An uniformed decision is often times a bad one.

Just because I don't think America will be strong again soon (2-5 years) doesn't mean I don't see it being strong again. I never once said recovery wasn't really an option for our government. I do believe the state it is in right now is not that strong but I do believe that it can be reworked and improved. My reason for saying that statement was to express my feelings of depreciation for our current social security system, specifically...which is one of the major aspects that is detrimental to our nation at the present time.

For the 4th or 5th time, I have told you what part I have done, and you keep telling me that in your eyes, it isn't enough. Sorry I wasn't able to please you and your idea of participation. You keep say join us to fix the problem, and I have asked you many times how I can 'join you'. You have simply just quoted what I have said and told me to re-read. If you see me not understanding what your saying, instead of dissecting my statements and nit picking, you should perhaps rephrase are reword your statement so I can better understand what your trying to say. It simply seems you just keep talking about nothing to me...I don't get what your saying and you clearly don't get what i'm saying...

....and back on topic now.