The ACMPR - Access to Cannabis for Medical Purposes Regulations

[mikek9]

Hello Canadian FCers. The new ACMPR regulations are upon us today. I still don't see anywhere I can apply for my permit to produce at home which is what I am mostly interested in. Today should be the day we can begin to apply so if anyone has found a link for me please provide it below.

http://healthycanadians.gc.ca/publi...icales-comprehension-reglements/index-eng.php

I am curious though if I will have to forfeit my relationship with my LPs to produce at home. The regulations only state you can purchase from an LP while production is being started and can even register with one with your Health Canada grow permit. So hopefully they allow you to stock up in between production cycles and just for a change of product from what you are going to be producing.

5 indoor plants for every 1 gram prescribed or 2 outdoor plants.

You can only grow for yourself and one other person or for two people if you are not producing for yourself. You can't have a drug conviction in the past 10 years, but this isn't clear for patients themselves. It is only stated under the section talking about designated growers so I don't know if a patient producing for themselves are allowed any drug convictions on record to produce at home. Also, if an adult, you can participate in the grow itself that your designated provider is managing for you whereas under the MMAR this was not allowed. As well, designated producers and patients can both process the cannabis into oils and extracts as long as they are not using solvents like butane and etc.

They do add that storefront dispensaries are illegal. I wish they wouldn't keep up this fight and just give patients options to access cannabis. There is supposed to be reasonable access and dispensaries are a sensible model for this. If only they would allow people to produce for them legally then they wouldn't be able to claim it comes from unknown sources.

 

[lazylathe]

Here is the whole new guide:

http://www.gazette.gc.ca/rp-pr/p2/2016/2016-08-24/html/sor-dors230-eng.php

I wonder if a simple swap from MMAR to ACMPR is possible?
I found this:
"
The Marihuana Medical Access Regulations (MMAR) were repealed on March 31, 2014. However, as a result of a Federal Court Order granted on March 21, 2014, individuals who were previously authorized to possess and/or produce marijuana under the former MMAR and who meet the terms of the Federal Court injunction order may continue to do so until the Court orders otherwise.

Individuals covered by the injunction who wish to change the terms of their license, such as a change in address or designated producer, will be able to do so by registering with Health Canada under the new ACMPR."

Found here:
http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/dhp-mps/marihuana/index-eng.php

As far as i can find, no paperwork is available yet... I have read some papers stating we have until the 29th to put forth our suggestions here:
http://healthycanadians.gc.ca/healt...ation-marijuana-legalisation/document-eng.php

Interesting times ahead! Some will love it, some will hate it, some will just tolerate it like previous systems...

 

[BHOmb.]

Just talked to someone at HC. ACMPR forms should be up in the next few hours.

 

[chris 71]

if you got your prescription through one of these places that you pay and they set you up with a skype appointment or what ever , good luck , i was told they wont do it and you need a new document not your current one

 

[lazylathe]

Forms are up!

http://healthycanadians.gc.ca/alt/p...istration-form-formulaire-inscription-eng.pdf

 

[mikek9]

Forms are up!

http://healthycanadians.gc.ca/alt/p...istration-form-formulaire-inscription-eng.pdf

Thank you very much for that. I hope for more clarification on how ordering from LPs will work alongside personal production as I want variety, something incase production turns out poorly and also something for in between production cycles if I ever run out of medicine.

 

[TripMan]

I honestly don't care about my MMPR/ACMPR
anymore, the whole process and dealing with LP's sucks. The one I'm with constantly jacks their prices up, charges tax, doesn't carry tinctures (never been a smoker so best solution for me) and doesn't have cbd at all times. If they give me troubles with converting to MMPR I will just skip the process and switch to MOM. I've already been using MOM because my LP doesn't have the CBD.

 

[theCerberus]

ugh. even with the forms filled out and the script signed, there is no way to start growing because LPs need to start selling seeds and clones first.

hope it happens fast. the first LP to sell seeds gets my script. i dont even care what strains they are selling. they wont know if i started seeds from a seed bank or theirs. but i cant grow legally without legal starting material .

this is akin to possession under MMPR.

we can possess whatever strain we want, the cops wont know the difference, but we have to place an order to get the bottle as proof of script in the first place. even if we never use that cannabis.

Thank you very much for that. I hope for more clarification on how ordering from LPs will work alongside personal production as I want variety, something incase production turns out poorly and also something for in between production cycles if I ever run out of medicine.

My understanding is that you can send your growing permit to the LP and they will provide you with interim cannabis until your grow produces for yourself. You can also get your doctor to submit a separate medical document so that you can join other LPs. The grow permit allows you to submit to as many LPs as you want to get starting materials (i dont know how they are going to keep track of that), but only allows one of them to supply you with actual dried cannabis.

 

[mikek9]

ugh. even with the forms filled out and the script signed, there is no way to start growing because LPs need to start selling seeds and clones first.

hope it happens fast. the first LP to sell seeds gets my script. i dont even care what strains they are selling. they wont know if i started seeds from a seed bank or theirs. but i cant grow legally without legal starting material .

this is akin to possession under MMPR.

we can possess whatever strain we want, the cops wont know the difference, but we have to place an order to get the bottle as proof of script in the first place. even if we never use that cannabis.




My understanding is that you can send your growing permit to the LP and they will provide you with interim cannabis until your grow produces for yourself. You can also get your doctor to submit a separate medical document so that you can join other LPs. The grow permit allows you to submit to as many LPs as you want to get starting materials (i dont know how they are going to keep track of that), but only allows one of them to supply you with actual dried cannabis.

Where are you getting your information from? I didn't read anywhere you had to order your starting materials from an LP for it to be considered legal. I read you can order starting materials and some LPs are going to even sell kits with lights and such (Aurora).

It also didn't state anywhere that you have to have a relationship with an LP to grow legally. It only says you need a certificate from health Canada, which they issues once you submit the paperwork to them.

 

[poonman]

Does anyone have any clue as to what will
happen next spring , when it's legal for recreational usage ?
Won't they be allowed to grow their own ?

 

[mikek9]

Does anyone have any clue as to what will
happen next spring , when it's legal for recreational usage ?
Won't they be allowed to grow their own ?

I don't believe the government will allow you to grow your own. Medical patients almost lost that privilege, but the courts ordered the government to allow it as they proved without it being forced to buy from a licensed provider they don't have reasonable access. However these are medical patients who have legitimate need for this as a medicine so that weighs heavily on the argument.

I highly doubt recreational users would have any ground whatsoever to compel the courts to agree they should have the right to produce your own cannabis because they have no real need to have easy access. Patients need it to alleviate suffering, recreational users need it to have a good experience. It could be obtained as other substances such as alcohol through its various outlets. I guess though it is legal to produce your own alcohol at home such as beer and wine so maybe they could argue based on that. That's my only reasonable argument I could think of for recreational users to produce at home.

I guess I would be ok with non medical patients producing as long as they have to adhere to the same restrictions as I have to such as security and etc. They should have to undergo some type of approval as we have to.

I guess @poonman 's question about what will happen next spring very well might involve an abolishment of the need to register to grow with health Canada if recreational users gain the right to produce at home. But there might still be some system as you should be allowed to produce an excess of plants for your needs. Some people have 40+ plants going. I would think recreational users would be limited to 4-6 plants if it is allowed.

 

[poonman]

The Gov. doesn't have any clues EITHER !
All this talk is about medical usage Only .
They admitted to requiring more time to work on
legislation for recreational use .

One of the reasons people make their own spirits and grow
their own veggies , is for the financial aspect . Plus I'm sure
I would enjoy what I've produced with my own hands too .
So why would rec. users be tied down to a certain # of plants
to harvest . ( But I'm sure they will come up with a reason )

One more thought , while I'm super vaked .
What if in the future , we find cannabis growing wildly
indigenous in Canada like Dandy-Lions ....

 

[theCerberus]

Where are you getting your information from? I didn't read anywhere you had to order your starting materials from an LP for it to be considered legal. I read you can order starting materials and some LPs are going to even sell kits with lights and such (Aurora).

It also didn't state anywhere that you have to have a relationship with an LP to grow legally. It only says you need a certificate from health Canada, which they issues once you submit the paperwork to them.

Read between the lines.
According to the NCR seeds are illegal because they are part of the cannabis plant.
Dana Larsen was arrested earlier this year for distributing seeds in his cross country tour.
Only nonviable hemp seeds are legal. Those seeds should never produce a plant. Seed banks are illegal, even though health canada didn't explicitly say this. importing any part of the cannabis plant that is not hemp or nonviable seeds is also illegal to individuals (only LPs can obtain these through an import/export process).
ACMPR allows LPs to sell seeds because it was previously illegal. Under MMAR the only legal source of seeds was Health Canada. Health Canada no longer sells seeds.
According to ACMPR, 3 seeds are now considered one plant. Patients arent allowed to share and dispensaries are illegal.
If I start my garden before LP's have seeds or clones, how would I explain where these plants came from? Did they fall from the sky?
TBH I dont know entirely how the ACMPR works yet, but we do know that inspectors are allowed to come and check out your grow (they need your permission to enter your home).
When you register with health canada you then forward the certificate off to LPs to get seeds or clones. You can reorder starting material as many times as you want if your seeds didnt germinate or plants died. But the question is, where does the official authorized plant come into play? for MMPR we have our bottles with the script on them or the document accompanying the shipment.

I can see this expanding into plants, where you need the document accompanying the shipment of the clones or seeds. This isnt something expressly written into the ACMPR, but how do you suggest I start legally without a method to obtain a legal starting material?

 

[poonman]

TBH I dont know entirely how the ACMPR works yet, but we do know that inspectors are allowed to come and check out your grow (they need your permission to enter your home).

The Gov. are still working on it .
There were No fore thoughts involved , Trudeau
wanted to get elected . Period .

And how many inspector jobs will be created to
monitor the logistics on thousands of citizens' harvests ?

What " if " my seeds/spores , some how got into my
neighbor's yard ? ( nudge nudge , wink wink )

We need to assist Blair and Maclaren , because we
know they will FUCK it up !

Those are just 2 scenarios ...
Can you guys think of anymore ?

 

[mikek9]

Read between the lines.
According to the NCR seeds are illegal because they are part of the cannabis plant.
Dana Larsen was arrested earlier this year for distributing seeds in his cross country tour.
Only nonviable hemp seeds are legal. Those seeds should never produce a plant. Seed banks are illegal, even though health canada didn't explicitly say this. importing any part of the cannabis plant that is not hemp or nonviable seeds is also illegal to individuals (only LPs can obtain these through an import/export process).
ACMPR allows LPs to sell seeds because it was previously illegal. Under MMAR the only legal source of seeds was Health Canada. Health Canada no longer sells seeds.
According to ACMPR, 3 seeds are now considered one plant. Patients arent allowed to share and dispensaries are illegal.
If I start my garden before LP's have seeds or clones, how would I explain where these plants came from? Did they fall from the sky?
TBH I dont know entirely how the ACMPR works yet, but we do know that inspectors are allowed to come and check out your grow (they need your permission to enter your home).
When you register with health canada you then forward the certificate off to LPs to get seeds or clones. You can reorder starting material as many times as you want if your seeds didnt germinate or plants died. But the question is, where does the official authorized plant come into play? for MMPR we have our bottles with the script on them or the document accompanying the shipment.

I can see this expanding into plants, where you need the document accompanying the shipment of the clones or seeds. This isnt something expressly written into the ACMPR, but how do you suggest I start legally without a method to obtain a legal starting material?

A family friend under the MMAR acquired all his starting materials from his local dispensary. His paperwork didn't say anywhere on it he had to order seed from health Canada. He got clones from dispensaries and had a legal grow. I don't know where you got this information. His health Canada paperwork didn't specify where you had to obtain the starting materials from. They suggested health Canada as an option, but that was just an option as I believe it will be under the ACMPR. His grow was legal and in compliance and it was all because of his paperwork and approval from health Canada.

 

[theCerberus]

A family friend under the MMAR acquired all his starting materials from his local dispensary. His paperwork didn't say anywhere on it he had to order seed from health Canada. He got clones from dispensaries and had a legal grow. I don't know where you got this information. His health Canada paperwork didn't specify where you had to obtain the starting materials from. They suggested health Canada as an option, but that was just an option as I believe it will be under the ACMPR. His grow was legal and in compliance and it was all because of his paperwork and approval from health Canada.

Dispensaries are illegal. It's almost like you posted the link and you didnt even read it. I got the information from the link you posted.

http://healthycanadians.gc.ca/publi...icales-comprehension-reglements/index-eng.php

Sorry but you are dead wrong. MMAR forms had a spot to say you were growing and they shipped you seeds with the permit (form E2), or that you wanted to buy their health canada shake (form E1). That was illegal of him to buy cannabis clones at a dispensary, and he should have started the health canada seeds that are shipped with the MMAR growing permit. But who would ever know that?

Under the former MMAR, the only option to acquire starting materials was seeds obtained from Health Canada. In addition, individuals who were authorized to possess marijuana for their own medical purposes could only purchase an interim supply of dried marijuana from Health Canada while waiting for their production to be ready. The ACMPR permit newly registered persons to register with any of the producers licensed by Health Canada using a copy of their Health Canada registration certificate to obtain starting materials (seeds or plants) for production, and/or an interim supply of fresh or dried marijuana or cannabis oil while their own production is established.

Under MMAR almost everyone threw away the Health Canada seeds and grew their own.
That doesn't mean the seeds did not exist like the situation we are in now.

Health Canada has made it clear many times that dispensaries are illegal, therefore what your friend did was ILLEGAL according to Health Canada. But alas again I ask, how would they ever know you didnt start the Health Canada seeds? Law enforcement doesnt know one strain from another!

....activities with cannabis conducted outside of the ACMPR, the NCR or an exemption pursuant to section 56 of the CDSA could be illegal.

Access to cannabis for medical purposes is only permitted under the terms and conditions set out in the regulations. Storefronts selling marijuana, commonly known as "dispensaries" and "compassion clubs," are not authorized to sell cannabis for medical or any other purposes. These operations are illegally supplied, and provide products that are unregulated and may be unsafe. Illegal storefront distribution and sale of cannabis in Canada are subject to law enforcement action.

Any individual registered to produce a limited amount of cannabis for him/herself may not sell, provide or give cannabis to another person.

A designated person may not:

• sell, provide or give cannabis to any person, except for the individual for whom he/she is authorized to produce in a registration; and,
• produce cannabis for more than two people registered with Health Canada, including him/herself, for whom he/she is authorized to produce in a registration.

think of it in reverse. MMAR, MMPR, ACMPR, were all created to permit otherwise illegal activities according to the NCR and CDSA. anything that falls outside of them is still illegal.

again, read between the lines, its not explicitly stated that you have to buy LP seeds or clones, but buying any part of the cannabis plant from a storefront is illegal/against the NCR. seeds banks are illegal. dispensaries are illegal. sharing with other patients is illegal. sharing with other growers is illegal. That means LPs are now the only legal source for starting material, and they dont sell it yet.

i ask you again, where do these magic starting materials come from? they cant come from another patient, they cant come from a store. health canada no longer sells them. they can only come from an LP!!! how do i start my grow without starting material?

 

[Ron]

The LP's have a captive market to sell their product to. Why would they voluntarily sell seeds or clones?

 

[BreeJay]

.............under the old system you had to buy seeds from PPS. Under the new system, the LP's. In the old system, no one was using PPS's seeds. The provision was not enforced. It will be the same under the new system, not likely to be enforced.................at least according to Kirk Tousaw. If folks are interested in keeping abreast of whats happening on the Canadian medicinal and recreational front, you might want to follow or friend him on FB.

 

[theCerberus]

.............under the old system you had to buy seeds from PPS. Under the new system, the LP's. In the old system, no one was using PPS's seeds. The provision was not enforced. It will be the same under the new system, not likely to be enforced.................at least according to Kirk Tousaw.

Correct, except for one thing, LP's do not sell starting material yet, and PPS had seeds to buy/throw away when MMAR started. It was and still is impossible to enforce genetics because law enforcement do not know one strain from another.
Under ACMPR, where can I currently get legal starting material from? LP's do not sell it yet.... Without that the argument of which strain is which is moot.
Law enforcement can enforce legal starting material as a whole.

 

[BreeJay]

Correct, except for one thing, LP's do not sell starting material yet, and PPS had seeds to buy/throw away when MMAR started. It was and still is impossible to enforce genetics because law enforcement do not know one strain from another.
Under ACMPR, where can I currently get legal starting material from? LP's do not sell it yet.... Without that the argument of which strain is which is moot.

I understand what your saying. You ( or anyone ) can't legally get seeds until the LPs play ball. It's a stupid provision designed to help keep as much control in the LP's hands as possible.

Sorry but you are dead wrong. MMAR forms had a spot to say you were growing and they shipped you seeds with the permit (form E2), or that you wanted to buy their health canada shake (form E1). That was illegal of him to buy cannabis clones at a dispensary, and he should have started the health canada seeds that are shipped with the MMAR growing permit. But who would ever know that?

No seeds were shipped with my permit. I had the option to buy, but never did.

 

[Trainwreck]

I understand what your saying. You ( or anyone ) can't legally get seeds until the LPs play ball. It's a stupid provision designed to help keep as much control in the LP's hands as possible.



No seeds were shipped with my permit. I had the option to buy, but never did.[/Q

But why do they ask "Will you need to obtain starting material (i.e. seeds) from a Licensed Producer? yes or no. This is under 4. Proposed Type of Production of Cannabis. What happens if you answer " no " ?

 

[theCerberus]

No seeds were shipped with my permit. I had the option to buy, but never did.

But you were supposed to buy the seeds. you started your grow illegally according to Health Canada but managed to slip through the cracks as no one seemed to care back in the MMAR days.
Dont get me wrong, I'm not judging you, you did a smart thing, and I would have done the same thing. The question is the uncertainty surrounding the ACMPR and they seem to be more intending on inspections this time around. They seem to want strict control.

But why do they ask "Will you need to obtain starting material (i.e. seeds) from a Licensed Producer? yes or no. This is under 4. Proposed Type of Production of Cannabis. What happens if you answer " no " ?

I believe Health Canada intends the " No " option only for current MMAR growers. Designated growers can grow for 2 patients, so if you can find a grower that only has one patient, I would assume that would also be legal starting material. If you do have an acquaintance with an MMAR growers permit you could potentially get him a really short DG licence (maybe 2 months depending on how long it takes for health canada to process scripts), buy his clones, then proceed to move the grow license when that one expires to your own house.

 

[Trainwreck]

I would think the idea would be to grow a strain you need and not some crap from an LP. I was with one LP and no more, a bunch of crocks and a total waste of time. I've been trying to find seeds that I know work for me and no luck, and when i found some bud from an LP of course they run out. So you try to go legal and you just can't win. And then they start with the propitiatory shit and I'm not going to go there. So stay low and carry on I will.

 

[Creeper]

The LP system is inundated and overloaded as is, I am working in the industry now and it's not pretty. We have to remember that this current system is the ghost of the Harper government and they wanted to have nothing to do with cannabis so it was designed to be as slow and clunky as it is from the onset.

For what it's worth the LPs are trying but the whole system is kinda retarded right now.

 

[theCerberus]

The LP system is inundated and overloaded as is, I am working in the industry now and it's not pretty. We have to remember that this current system is the ghost of the Harper government and they wanted to have nothing to do with cannabis so it was designed to be as slow and clunky as it is from the onset.

For what it's worth the LPs are trying but the whole system is kinda retarded right now.

I wholeheartedly disagree with you.

ACMPR was created under the liberal government.

They had a chance to change everything and they didnt. I dont have much hope.

The LPs are not trying!
they could be in court fighting for us to have actual concentrate products a la the smith decision and they could also be fighting against medical patients paying taxes.... they are doing NEITHER. THEY DONT GIVE A FUCK.... the only people fighting for patients in court are dispensary staff and other patients.... this whole system exists because of them.... The LPs have done NOTHING to advance the system whatsoever! They have NO PUSHBACK AT ALL. They are leaches. They wont take risks.

Despite the ACMPR rules restricting LP extracts to 3% THC, LPs should be allowed to produce any form of cannabis derivative because of the Smith decision. Does any LP do this? NO!
Even if you give health canada the OK to ban organic solvents (which they only did for patients anyways), the limit of 3% is COMPLETELY AND UTTERLY ARBITRARY AND WOULD NEVER HOLD UP IN COURT! This is a definite win, there is really no way to lose that case in court. But no LP would dare break health canada's rules to get in trouble to go to court and fight. Patients and dispensary staff will, and thats why we have the Smith decision in the first place.

And lets not forget about taxes. Medical patients shouldnt be paying taxes. Dispensaries went to court over this and lost solely because they were operating illegally. The judge decreed that if the business had been legal they would not have to charge tax. AGAIN ITS A FUCKING CAKE WALK. If an LP stopped charging tax and fought in court they would win, hands down. The legal precedence is already set. But no LP would dare do that either.