The 2016 Presidential Candidates Thread

[HellsWindStaff]

I know Trump is not perfect, but I will probably vote for him in November because although he is many things, he is not that. (In regards to the same old corruption/political greasing......whether or not he brings his own brand or not is a bet I'm willing to take, when the other way seems like it's always going to come up)

It's too bad Gary Johnson can't get enough, or that a third party in general can't get established. I think a more diverse system would be a good thing.....but maybe not.....I know there are examples of each (in other countries) but I am too tired to check right now.

 

[CarolKing]

Trump has shown us since he started running for president that he is s decisive individual that can change his mind on a whim. He believes in segregating certain populations of our society. He pits one group against the other. He can only tear this country apart with hate and selfishness.

He wants to deport thousands of Hispanic families. Some families have been living here illegally and the children that were born here are teenagers. It's gotten harder for the illegal folks to get their citizenship. He plans to build the biggest and the best wall ever, he says to keep the Hispanics out.

They have him on tape pretending to be his publicist saying all kinds of wonderful things about the Donald. Do we want a president that has such outlandish behavior? They have Mr. trump on tape saying all kinds of humiliating things about women, some of the tape isn't very old.

He promises folks what they want to hear depending on the crowd he's talking to.

Who would have thought this snake oil salesman would appeal to the masses? Why did the heads of the Democrats put all their hopes on a candidate that didn't have the backing and support of the majority of the American people? Why didn't the DNC put more support behind Bernie Sanders or at least not play favorites? I'm hoping the Democrats didn't shoot themselves in the foot because it's beginning to feel that way.

Treat your voting privaledges like gold.

Edit
Every time when Trump is asked about important issues like health care he comes out with a vague statement that doesnt really answer anything. Or else he comes out with some batshit idea of talking to the leader of N. Korea. What about Japan and S. Korea needs a nuclear weapon? WTF?

 

[Derrrpp]

It boggles my mind how anyone could vote for Donald Trump. Hillary is not perfect. Trump, on the other hand, embodies everything a president shouldn't be.

 

[vorrange]

Bernie is the only serious contender to providing real change in the US.

Hillary is the next puppet, just watch what happened in Nevada to see how much the powers that be want Clinton as president.

Trump is a fool and afaik is totally independent from Hillary's bosses, hence the media frenzy bashing him... but he remains a radical simplistic fool who has proven to feed precisely into the prejudice that is growing in the US and worldwide.

 

[Gunky]

Nevada
Clinton (won)
20 delegates
52.6%
6,316 votes
Sanders
15 delegates
47.3%
5,678 votes
Source: AP

Sanders lost the primary. Then his followers tried to game the rules and get a couple extra delegates out of it, which would not have made any difference to Sanders' overall standing and which he actually didn't deserve according to the rules. When that didn't work they got violent. Sanders is once again suggesting the game is rigged and he was victimized, promoting a narrative whereby he is being robbed of the nomination by a biased Democratic party establishment who are all in the pay of Wall Street, corporate interests, and the wealthy. I guess you have to say things like that when your opponent gets 13 million votes and you only get 10 million (a proportion which would be considered a landslide in a general election). Saint Bernie's halo has cracked and he appears to have feet of clay.

 

[BD9]

Nevada
Clinton (won)
20 delegates
52.6%
6,316 votes
Sanders
15 delegates
47.3%
5,678 votes
Source: AP

Sanders lost the primary. Then his followers tried to game the rules and get a couple extra delegates out of it, which would not have made any difference to Sanders' overall standing and which he actually didn't deserve according to the rules. When that didn't work they got violent. Sanders is once again suggesting the game is rigged and he was victimized, promoting a narrative whereby he is being robbed of the nomination by a biased Democratic party establishment who are all in the pay of Wall Street, corporate interests, and the wealthy. I guess you have to say things like that when your opponent gets 13 million votes and you only get 10 million. Saint Bernie's halo has cracked and he appears to have feet of clay.

Gunky, though I disagree with you, I still appreciate your thoughts. I know I won't change your mind, but I'd like to invite you to take a look at the links @Joel W. posted.

http://www.salon.com/2016/03/30/10_...imary_has_been_rigged_from_the_start_partner/

http://usuncut.com/politics/sanders-says-dnc-rigging-convention/

http://observer.com/2016/03/the-countless-failings-of-the-dnc/

 

[CarolKing]

Trump needs to start acting somewhat presidential. He's starting to surround himself with republicans that know the workings of the system.

He's also getting a lot of money through republican donors. He's not self financing any longer. So Trump won't be able to use campaign funding against Hillary because he's getting money too. It's a money game now.

I would love it if Sanders came in on a white horse and win every state that's left. Now more than ever I see he's the right choice for America. A lot of other people think so too. His momentum came too late. He needed to win some of those early states.

He still will make a difference but only if Democrats get the presidency.

 

[Gunky]

Gunky, though I disagree with you, I still appreciate your thoughts. I know I won't change your mind, but I'd like to invite you to take a look at the links @Joel W. posted.

I read the salon article. I'm sorry but that is very lame. For example, one of the bullet points:

9. The Math, the Math

The final defense for the Clinton camp and the major media, spinning out from the eastern media centers to local news outlets, is that Clinton is too far ahead in delegates so the race is over.

To strengthen the case, Clinton’s big margin among superdelegates is added to the total of delegates won in primaries and caucuses. Even though, unlike pledged delegates, superdelegates are not committed to their position. They can flip at will, as they did from Clinton to Obama in 2008.

Next time you hear a pundit say Sanders needs to win 60 percent of the remaining delegates, “and that just can’t happen,” consider his 80 percent margin in Idaho and Utah.

In state after state, especially those that are not closed to independents, where Sanders has had time to campaign so voters get to know him, his platform, consistent record and unimpeachable character, and when the voting process is allowed to move forward without open rigging, Sanders does increasingly well.

The result often is wins, as in Michigan and recent caucus states, or effective ties in votes and delegates, as in Iowa, Missouri and Illinois. Even in states where Clinton ultimately won because of voters who voted early by mail, Sanders increasingly won the majority of those who turn out on election day.

The above was published 3/30. I guess at that time Bernie needed to win 60 percent of the remaining delegates and the author could still convince herself that it was possible. Now he needs what, 85 percent? The root problem and delusion of the whole Bernie campaign at this point is thinking there is some avenue for a win when you are losing the popular vote 10 million to 13 million. They keep whining about the media, the super-delegates, the rules, the DNC chair, debate timing, yada yada yada. Lame, lame, lame excuses. 10 million to 13 million votes decide the issue and all of that would be fine for Bernie if his numbers happened to be better. He is not complaining about the unrepresentative caucuses he won. Not only is he a left-wing demagogue promising results which are unattainable, he is a sore loser and poor sportsman too. He is also spouting sophomoric conspiracy theory about the democratic party, Clinton, Wall Street, etc which could hurt us in the general election.

 

[cybrguy]

I would love it if Sanders came in on a white horse and win every state that's left. Now more than ever I see he's the right choice for America. A lot of other people think so too. His momentum came too late. He needed to win some of those early states.

He could do this by 30 points and he would still not have enough delegates to win. He DID win some early states. But only ones that had few minorities in them.

 

[CarolKing]

It's going to be important that the folks 30 and under vote. They generally are Democrats and they are the part of the population that doesn't vote as much.

i hope that they won't decide not to vote because of their disappoint if Sanders doesn't get the democrats nomination.

I know it's hard to fathom that Sanders would have enough votes but I'm hoping, I'm not ready to give up yet.

I'll be curious how Trump talks about the airplane crash today.

 

[Joel W.]

I think if the other 9 bullet points were false, then the "math" would not favor Clinton the way it does..

In other words, if the system was not manipulated like it was from the start by the DNC to favor Clinton, then Bernie would have more votes right now.

What I hear is "Yes, she/they cheated, but she's winning now so he is just a sore loser with poor sportsmanship. "

Bull.

If all true, this shit is going to make it really hard for some (me) to vote for her, if/when she does get the nod.

It's a turn off, for me.

Edit: if it turns out that there is solid proof of manipulation by the DNC to favor Clinton like there seems to be, maybe they deserve to get beat by trump. Hopefully they learn from their mistakes.

 

[His_Highness]

It's going to be important that the folks 30 and under vote. They generally are Democrats and they are the part of the population that doesn't vote as much.

i hope that they won't decide not to vote because of their disappoint if Sanders doesn't get the democrats nomination.

These are my concerns as well CK. I've said before that when talking to my family millennials I've been told by many that they won't vote at all if Hillary wins the primary. I guess its better than them saying they'll vote for Trump.

Once the primary is over, and if Hillary wins, I'm going to start my own family millennial campaign. I know I won't be able to change their minds about how they personally feel about Hillary so I'm going to concentrate on 'Vote for Hillary because of how much you hate Trump'. Hope it works....

 

[Adobewan]

I think if the other 9 bullet points were false, then the "math" would not favor Clinton the way it does..

In other words, if the system was not manipulated like it was from the start by the DNC to favor Clinton, then Bernie would have more votes right now.

What I hear is "Yes, she/they cheated, but she's winning now so he is just a sore loser with poor sportsmanship. "

Bull.

If all true, this shit is going to make it really hard for some (me) to vote for her, if/when she does get the nod.

It's a turn off, for me.

Edit: if it turns out that there is solid proof of manipulation by the DNC to favor Clinton like there seems to be, maybe they deserve to get beat by trump. Hopefully they learn from their mistakes.

Multi-like!

 

[TeeJay1952]

Jackson Browne
"Rock Me On The Water"

Oh people, look around you
The signs are everywhere
You've left it for somebody other than you
To be the one to care
You're lost inside your houses
There's no time to find you now
Your walls are burning and your towers are turning
I'm going to leave you here and try to get down to the sea somehow

The road is filled with homeless souls
Every woman, child and man
Who have no idea where they will go
But they'll help you if they can
Now everyone must have some thought
That's going to pull them through somehow
Well the fires are raging hotter and hotter
But the sisters of the sun are going to rock me on the water now

Rock me on the water
Sister will you soothe my fevered brow
Rock me on the water
I'll get down to the sea somehow

Oh people, look among you
It's there your hope must lie
There's a sea bird above you
Gliding in one place like Jesus in the sky
We all must do the best we can
And then hang on to that Gospel plow
When my life is over, I'm going to stand before the Father
But the sisters of the sun are going to rock me on the water now

Rock me on the water
Sister will you soothe my fevered brow
Rock me on the water, maybe I'll remember
Maybe I'll remember how
Rock me on the water
The wind is with me now
So rock me on the water
I'll get down to the sea somehow

 

[grokit]

Bernie Sanders Responds to Nevada Convention Debacle


“The Democratic Party has a choice. It can open its doors and welcome into the party people who are prepared to fight for real economic and social change…Or the party can choose to maintain its status quo structure.”

Bernie Sanders released a lengthy statement on the recent Nevada convention disaster, speaking for the millions of outraged Americans.

“It is imperative that the Democratic leadership, both nationally and in the states, understand that the political world is changing and that millions of Americans are outraged at establishment politics and establishment economics. The people of this country want a government which represents all of us, not just the 1 percent, super PACs and wealthy campaign contributors.

“The Democratic Party has a choice. It can open its doors and welcome into the party people who are prepared to fight for real economic and social change – people who are willing to take on Wall Street, corporate greed and a fossil fuel industry which is destroying this planet. Or the party can choose to maintain its status quo structure, remain dependent on big-money campaign contributions and be a party with limited participation and limited energy.

“Within the last few days there have been a number of criticisms made against my campaign organization. Party leaders in Nevada, for example, claim that the Sanders campaign has a ‘penchant for violence.’ That is nonsense. Our campaign has held giant rallies all across this country, including in high-crime areas, and there have been zero reports of violence. Our campaign of course believes in non-violent change and it goes without saying that I condemn any and all forms of violence, including the personal harassment of individuals. But, when we speak of violence, I should add here that months ago, during the Nevada campaign, shots were fired into my campaign office in Nevada and apartment housing complex my campaign staff lived in was broken into and ransacked.

“If the Democratic Party is to be successful in November, it is imperative that all state parties treat our campaign supporters with fairness and the respect that they have earned. I am happy to say that has been the case at state conventions in Maine, Alaska, Colorado and Hawaii where good discussions were held and democratic decisions were reached. Unfortunately, that was not the case at the Nevada convention. At that convention the Democratic leadership used its power to prevent a fair and transparent process from taking place.

“The chair of the convention announced that the convention rules passed on voice vote, when the vote was a clear no-vote. At the very least, the Chair should have allowed for a headcount.

"The chair allowed its Credentials Committee to en mass rule that 64 delegates were ineligible without offering an opportunity for 58 of them to be heard. That decision enabled the Clinton campaign to end up with a 30-vote majority.

"The chair refused to acknowledge any motions made from the floor or allow votes on them.

"The chair refused to accept any petitions for amendments to the rules that were properly submitted.”

http://www.nationofchange.org/news/2016/05/18/bernie-sanders-responds-nevada-convention-debacle/

 

[Joel W.]

The exit poll miss is pretty telling to me.


"What if early exit polling in the United States is actually quite reliable, except when it involves George W. Bush or Hillary Clinton?

Last night in West Virginia the first full exit poll projected a 19.3% Bernie Sanders win. The first full exit poll is released to CNN and others in the National Election Pool by Edison Research just as polls close for a given state. CNN posts the results within five or ten minutes of poll closing. With 96.8% reporting this morning, Sanders is up 15.4% in West Virginia for a 3.9% difference in Hillary Clinton’s favor. Not bad. In and of itself, this would cause no concern. It is definitely within the margin of error.

For our purposes, the 3.9% miss does raise some concern as outlined in our nine criteria in Part 1 for when a state may show moderate potential for substantial election fraud. The problem is that the majority of West Virginia jurisdictions use voting machines or tabulators more than ten years old and the exit polling miss is more than 3.5% in Clinton’s favor. Beginning with South Carolina, where the first full exit poll missed by 11.5%, 22 of 25 primaries have seen Clinton outperform her exit polling expectations. The average is a 5.1% exit poll bias in Clinton’s favor.

For the numbers I can find (nearly all of them) on the GOP side for the same states, the overall bias is virtually nil, with most results getting the margin between first and second place in each contest right within a percentage or two. In 17 of the 25 contests on the Dem side, the exit polling miss on the marginal difference was 3.5% or more; this has happened just four times on the GOP side. On the GOP side, the misses of 3.5% or more were distributed across candidates. On the Dem side, 16 of 17 were in Clinton’s favor. For 9 of the 25 contests, the polling miss was 7.0% or greater, all in Clinton’s favor. This happened just once for Republicans (Texas)."



More... http://www.counterpunch.org/2016/05...-exit-polling-and-election-fraud-allegations/

 

[HellsWindStaff]

It boggles my mind how anyone could vote for Donald Trump. Hillary is not perfect. Trump, on the other hand, embodies everything a president shouldn't be.

This is why politics are interesting to me, as we all read the same things yet draw our own conclusions and make our own deductions.

I think a lot of the Trump hate is blown out of proportion. (Well, IMO clearly is since he polls much better than he should be if everything was true......) I'm not saying he hasn't said stupid things though. I will say, I don't think the world will burn with Trump as president, and it's a roll of the dice I'm willing to bet on.

I just find the social nature of politics pretty interesting. In my real life, a lot of the Bernie supporters I know, they are people whose opinion/insight I don't really tend to value that much. That said, some of my best friends are Bernie supporters. Just because one Bernie supporter I know is an idiot, doesn't make them all idiots. Similarly, a lot of my family are Trump supporters, and I value their opinion and take on things, but there are some pretty idiotic Trump supporters who I don't consider their take on politics worth much of anything at all.

I always see people referring to the other party as stupid or uninformed, and I guess thats what had me thinking about this. We always remember the stupid ones, but we should try not to project our feelings over a whole group. But one bad apple always spoils the bunch and they'll remember that crappy apple more than any of the delicious ones, just human nature.

I am a millennial and in my neck of the woods, millennial support for Hilary is very rare, from my perspective. Same with Trump. Bernie really captivated the millennials around my parts, as well as a lot of the blue collar steel mill laborer types in 30-40s. I don't see a ton of love for Donald Trump, but it is definitely there in pockets.

To relate back to my earlier point, I was at the bar a few weeks back and there was a couple in there that I recognized, and they are both Trump supporters. Somehow, the transgendered bathroom "issue" got brought up, and the lady was expressing so much shock and worry and anger about it, because she felt that men were going to masquerade as transgendered women in an attempt to rape women in the bathrooms......this was at the forefront of her thoughts I'm assuming, since she repeated it a number of times.

Can't fix stupid, but not all Trump supporters are like that

I am rambling, just some thoughts in general I had earlier, as I too have been mind boggled by reading some of the posts before, but more than any one persons opinion on it, I just find it interesting how people can read the same things and just draw vastly different ideas.

 

[CarolKing]

But the Trump phenomenon shows that “self-interest” includes not only economic self-interest and the rights of one’s gender or ethnic group or race or other group. It also includes a need to feel oneself to be a good person and our nation to be a good nation; to pursue justice; to create a coherent self-narrative; to maintain a sense of oneself as moral; and to maintain a stable set of relationships with peers and with those we see as leaders. Trump has addressed those needs, in however demagogic and despicable a way.

Giving the Obama administration an “A” for “saving the economy” as Clinton has done, and believing that people are anxiously waiting to see what government can do for them won’t wash. Unless Clinton can directly address people’s anxiety, their mistrust of government and of politicians, their need for an honest explanation of what ails America economically, she gives Trump running room. Unless she, like Trump and her own immediate rival, Bernie Sanders, can inspire people, she, like Ted Cruz, John Kasich, Marco Rubio, Jeb Bush, Chris Christie, and all of the other once-upon-a-time Republican hopefuls before her, may well fall before the Trump steamroller.

I found this on Salon.com from today. It was a very good article this was the last couple paragraphs. The link is below so you can read the whole thing.

7 reasons why Donald Trump was no surprise — Hillary either masters them, or she might lose - Salon.com
Salon.com › 2016/05/19

Edit
At first @Gunky i thought you were mad at me but your below post doesn't match up with my post.

 

[Gunky]

OK so let's look at the other nine bullet points in that salon article. These are supposed to prove the system is rigged and as a result Bernie is being robbed.

1. Major Media Blackout

Do I really have to discuss this one? Every candidate who has ever lost claimed the media was against him. This point is disgraceful and doesn't deserve a refutation. It's a form of conspiracy theory.

2. They’re Debating When?

This is such a ridiculous whine! Is anyone taking this seriously? Both candidates appeared at the same debates and got equal exposure. More conspiracy theory.

3. Sanders Booms, Media Works to Marginalize

As the votes began coming in for Bernie, especially with his big win in New Hampshire, Clinton surrogates were given extra time as TV analysts to downplay the results, and the media narrative shifted.

That is so bogus! According to point 1 the media is blacking out Sanders. But at the same time they are vilifying him too? Yet more conspiracy theory. The author should really be ashamed for this. The system is rigged and here's the evidence: pundits write essays putting down Bernie? Give me a break!

4. Vote Rigging

Uh huh. Yeah right. Bullshit!

5. The Sexism Canard

How ridiculous can you get? They are using Trump's argument that Hillary is 'playing the woman's card'? Unworthy and stupid. The primaries are rigged! Rigged I say! Because um, Hillary is a woman!

6. Undemocratic Primaries

Sanders has won the overwhelming majority of independent voters in “open” primaries or caucuses that allow them to vote.

Well, he mostly won in caucuses, which are the least democratic procedures. He also won in places that had few minority voters. That does not make the primaries he won look representative either. Bogus!

7. Superdelegates Toe the Line

Ridiculous point. Aw, all the democratic office holders prefer a real democrat to johny-come-lately dem who only became a democrat yesterday so he could use the facilities and national platform offered by the party. He doesn't raise money for the party or help down-ticket candidates. He doesn't espouse mainstream democratic initiatives. He works alone. What did he expect?

8. Who’s Most Electable, Who Is Not

Wait, this is supposed to be a reason why the primaries are rigged? It isn't.

9. The Math, the Math

Already talked about this. The chances are now zero for all practical purposes. Get over it.

10. Forward to Victory

This is no more than padding out the list to get ten items. It asserts that there are lots of delegates out there and Sanders can still win. There is nothing in this item to indicate the primaries are rigged and it is not particularly different from point 9. More BS.

Here's the link to the original salon article which somebody posted above and somebody else said I should read: http://www.salon.com/2016/03/30/10_...imary_has_been_rigged_from_the_start_partner/

 

[CarolKing]

@Gunky make sure we know who you are talking to.

There needs to be a system for voting for president in the primary and the general election that's up to date and is stream lined.

It needs to be the same for each party in every state. It needs to stay the same and the parties can't change how it works at the last minute or on a whim. I am for states rights for some things but not everything.

The voting process has to be made easy for all. We have a mail in ballot for the general presidential election in WA state.

Voting is one of the most important rights we have as free people living in a civilized country. The voting system is broken, this I can agree with Donald Trump.

Edit
Trump keeps saying that Bill Clinton raped somebody. I hadn't heard this until a week ago. If somebody said this about him he would probably sue. Can Bill Clinton do anything about this?

 

[Farid]

From the sounds of it, any criticism of Hillary is baseless and based in conspiracy theory and Republican propaganda. What is a legitimate criticism of Hillary then? I can think of a whole list of criticisms I have of Bernie Sanders, but I am still proud to have voted for him.

 

[Snappo]

I think a lot of the Trump hate is blown out of proportion. (Well, IMO clearly is since he polls much better than he should be if everything was true......) I'm not saying he hasn't said stupid things though. I will say, I don't think the world will burn with Trump as president, and it's a roll of the dice I'm willing to bet on.

I think you've struck a good point here... If Trump gets in all the way he's going to realize FAST that he's in a league of governmental & world powers that he wasn't quite prepared for, and he'd better learn QUICK and tone it down! This experience will humble even the most brash ego-maniacal sons-a-bitches to tone down their posturing pronouncements and get with the reality of complicated shit... a reality he's not yet stuck his big toe in at even the most shallow depths.

 

[thisperson]

OK so let's look at the other nine bullet points in that salon article. These are supposed to prove the system is rigged and as a result Bernie is being robbed.

1. Major Media Blackout

Do I really have to discuss this one? Every candidate who has ever lost claimed the media was against him. This point is disgraceful and doesn't deserve a refutation. It's a form of conspiracy theory.

2. They’re Debating When?

This is such a ridiculous whine! Is anyone taking this seriously? Both candidates appeared at the same debates and got equal exposure. More conspiracy theory.

3. Sanders Booms, Media Works to Marginalize

As the votes began coming in for Bernie, especially with his big win in New Hampshire, Clinton surrogates were given extra time as TV analysts to downplay the results, and the media narrative shifted.

That is so bogus! According to point 1 the media is blacking out Sanders. But at the same time they are vilifying him too? Yet more conspiracy theory. The author should really be ashamed for this. The system is rigged and here's the evidence: pundits write essays putting down Bernie? Give me a break!

4. Vote Rigging

Uh huh. Yeah right. Bullshit!

5. The Sexism Canard

How ridiculous can you get? They are using Trump's argument that Hillary is 'playing the woman's card'? Unworthy and stupid. The primaries are rigged! Rigged I say! Because um, Hillary is a woman!

6. Undemocratic Primaries

Sanders has won the overwhelming majority of independent voters in “open” primaries or caucuses that allow them to vote.

Well, he mostly won in caucuses, which are the least democratic procedures. He also won in places that had few minority voters. That does not make the primaries he won look representative either. Bogus!

7. Superdelegates Toe the Line

Ridiculous point. Aw, all the democratic office holders prefer a real democrat to johny-come-lately dem who only became a democrat yesterday so he could use the facilities and national platform offered by the party. He doesn't raise money for the party or help down-ticket candidates. He doesn't espouse mainstream democratic initiatives. He works alone. What did he expect?

8. Who’s Most Electable, Who Is Not

Wait, this is supposed to be a reason why the primaries are rigged? It isn't.

9. The Math, the Math

Already talked about this. The chances are now zero for all practical purposes. Get over it.

10. Forward to Victory

This is no more than padding out the list to get ten items. It asserts that there are lots of delegates out there and Sanders can still win. There is nothing in this item to indicate the primaries are rigged and it is not particularly different from point 9. More BS.

Here's the link to the original salon article which somebody posted above and somebody else said I should read: http://www.salon.com/2016/03/30/10_...imary_has_been_rigged_from_the_start_partner/

You did not reply to the interesting points posted about the Nevada Primary.

Also, there was active voter suppression. How do you explain Arizona's reduction of polling places in certain counties and New York's dropping of 100k Brooklyn voters.

He did better in open primaries than in closed primaries, and if they had all been open primaries (MORE CITIZENS VOTING) instead of closed primaries (Just democrats) then he would have won. That simple. He pulls republicans and independents.

As can be attested by the polling comparison of Hillary vs Trump and Bernie vs Trump. he wins by a larger margin because they defect.

I'm convinced the FBI has been preparing us for Hillary's indictment. I just don't know if it will happen before or after the Democratic Convention.

Oh yeah and I don't know what you call the reduction of debates. I think it helped rig the process. The Clinton name has brand recognition. They will win more votes compared to an unknown. It's that simple.

I think you should look at the nevada primary through a different POV Gunky. I have no clue how you got to that conclusion, but everything I've read suggests it was rigged. If you need further evidence than what was posted above, look at this: http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2016...thuggish-power-grab-at-nevada-convention.html

The chairwoman was given special powers to decide the convention. That's undemocratic and not something I would ever condone done in my presence. Once the Bernie people found out what happened of course they were outraged.

 

[neverforget711]

I think you've struck a good point here... If Trump gets in all the way he's going to realize FAST that he's in a league of governmental & world powers that he wasn't quite prepared for, and he'd better learn QUICK and tone it down! This experience will humble even the most brash ego-maniacal sons-a-bitches to tone down their posturing pronouncements and get with the reality of complicated shit... a reality he's not yet stuck his big toe in at even the most shallow depths.

I too am counting on Trump being self-aware and self-interested enough to not at least go down as one of the worst.

 

[rayski]

Here's a more balanced account of what happened in Nevada: http://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/nevada-democratic-convention