The 2016 Presidential Candidates Thread

Joel W.

Deplorable Basement Dweller
Accessory Maker
Time for me to send Bernie some coin I think. Then, I can feel like I tried.

I hate how the media and wall street favor Clinton over him, rigging/removing polls that favor Bernie over Clinton. All the unfair air time. Why even have an election?

That shit just motivates me to do more for him and hopefully others too.

Feeling the Bern!
 

CarolKing

Singer of songs and a vapor connoisseur
Who thought that 8 years ago Barack Obama would win out over Hilary Clinton during the caucus process. If everyone would have had the attitude that he didn't have a snow balls chance, he wouldn't have gotten into office. In WA state we have a caucus as well as a primary election.

Your right to vote is a scared thing, own it and do what you think is the right thing. Some folks in other parts of the world like North Korea and China don't have that right. Be greatful we live in a free society, that includes voting your choice.
 
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His_Highness

In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king
Other than death and taxes, there's nothing 100%, but if you feel strongly about both the long term and short term damage that could be done if your competing party won the election, why wouldn't you want to play the odds and bet on who has the best chance on winning the general even if it's not your ideal candidate?

Case in point. There were those who voted for Santorum and Huckabee knowing full well that their chances of winning were minuscule yet they voted for them anyway. Why? It's an exercise in futility.

I don't know full well how minuscule the chance of any candidate wining at this point is. In my mind knowing full well about anything went out the door when Trump became a serious contender.

There may be a bunch of people voting for who they think can win instead of who they want. I wouldn't be one of them.
 

Gunky

Well-Known Member
Nope not me. Voted for them both. Lost to Nixon & Reagan. Wouldn't change a thing, other than more voters minds.
I'll shut up now.
Be Proud.
Be Involved.
I think you are missing the point. The problem wasn't voting for McGovern once he was nominated. It was nominating him in the first place. Nominating Bernie gives a huge opening to the repubs. Why do it when his policies are either identical or inferior to the front runner?

Bernie's explanation of how he will enact his policies is pretty much fantasy. So many people will vote for him and down ticket candidates who support him that suddenly gridlock will fade away? Seriously, that's the plan? It's kind of similar to republican magic asterisks. Aint gonna happen. Especially after what happened to the Obama administration. 8 years of repub stonewalling and non-cooperation is going just vanish because Bernie says things I like and agree with? Nah.
 
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Gunky,

grokit

well-worn member
Personally, I like Bernie better as well but unlike you, I don't think that there is a chance in hell a self professed socialist can win the general. He does, however, have a chance in winning the primary but if that happens, the chances of the GOP taking the WH goes up tremendously
But every poll says that bernie does better than hillary, against any of the republicans.

Do we need to post these polls, again?
:myday:
 

lwien

Well-Known Member
But every poll says that bernie does better than hillary, against any of the republicans.

Do we need to post these polls, again?
:myday:

Do we need to post up polls over the past 20 years at this state of the primaries? If I did that I think it would be clearly apparent that at their core, they are totally inaccurate in predicting anything.
 

grokit

well-worn member
Polls this early are meaningless.
They're not meaningless if you use them as an excuse to vote for someone you don't like :2c:


Now Trump is calling Cruz a cheater regarding the Iowa Caucus. There needs to be a do over he said.
It's not jot just the republicans:
Sanders’ supporters cry foul over “Coingate”: Controversy over coin tosses that made Clinton “winner” in Iowa
The suspicious circumstances in which Clinton edged Sanders has critics demanding answers over bizarre coin flips

sanders_hillary7-620x412.jpg

(Credit: Reuters/Lucy Nicholson/AP/Jim Cole/Photo montage by Salon)
(This article was updated when the details of another coin toss in Johnson County emerged.)


The results of the first caucus in the U.S. presidential primary election came down not to actual votes, but to a coin toss — or, rather, to multiple coin tosses.

Bernie Sanders and Hillary Clinton had a virtual tie in the Iowa caucus Monday night. With 99 percent of precincts reported, there was just a 0.2 percent difference; Sanders had 49.6 percent of statewide delegate equivalents, and Clinton had 49.8 percent.

The Iowa Democratic Party said the results were “the closest in Iowa Democratic caucus history.”

Because they were tied, in order to determine who would get the delegates, coin tosses were reportedly held in at least seven precincts.

This is how the #IowaCaucus works. A tie is solved tossing a coin @HillaryClinton wins pic.twitter.com/yZDTUKFJXQ

— Fernando Peinado (@FernandoPeinado) February 2, 2016

There were two coin tosses in Des Moines and four more in Ames, Newton, West Branch and Davenport, the Des Moines Register reported. Clinton won all of these.

Another video, which the Des Moines Register did not report on, also emerged, showing a seventh coin toss in Johnson County. Sanders won what appears to be just this one.

Clinton reportedly won six out of the seven coin tosses. This assured her several more delegates to the Democratic Party’s county conventions, of which there are thousands that are selected from the state’s 1,681 precincts in order to determine who gets statewide delegate equivalents.

Clinton ultimately got 700.59 state delegate equivalents, while Sanders got 696.82 state delegate equivalents, a mere 3.77 point difference, according to the Iowa Democratic Party.

In other words, although six is a small fraction of the thousands of overall county delegates, these coin tosses — all of which Clinton reportedly won, despite the low probability — may have pushed her over the edge, giving her the extra statewide delegate equivalents that granted her an additional Iowa delegate.

Clinton ended up getting just one more Iowa delegate, with 22 to Sanders’ 21.

Even before all the precincts were reported, the characteristically confident Clinton campaign had immediately declared victory.

The Sanders campaign, on the other hand, has not conceded, and is requesting a recount, the Associated Press reported.

Because of the incredibly close results and the very low probability of Clinton winning all of these coin tosses, Sanders’ supporters have raised suspicions. Others have accused the Iowa caucus of manipulation and foul play.

Salon reached out to John Allen Paulos, the prominent mathematician and author of “Innumeracy: Mathematical Illiteracy and Its Consequences,” requesting a comment on the controversy. “It does arouse a little suspicion — about the six consecutive wins for Clinton, about the way the flips took place, and about the 60 missing attendees. Can’t say more now,” he said.

In Ames, Clinton was awarded county delegates based on a coin toss only after 60 caucus participants suddenly disappeared, for unknown reasons.

Moreover, a widely circulated video uploaded to C-SPAN alleges that Clinton supporters committed voter fraud in Polk County, Iowa. The post claims that the video shows the caucus chair and Clinton precinct captain not conducting an actual count of Clinton supporters and deliberately misleading the caucus.

Mere hours after being uploaded, the C-SPAN post had hundreds of thousands of views.

These circumstances led critics on social media to jokingly use the hashtags #coingate, #coinspiracy and #coinghazi.

.@HillaryClinton won 5/5 tosses?!. . . Did they get the coins from the Goldman Sachs bank? #coinspiracy #IowaCaucus #DemCaucus @SenSanders

— Andy Grewal (@AndyGrewal) February 2, 2016

A coin flip is the basis of our government? Are you FLIPPING kidding me?
This is why nobody likes America. #flipthis #coingate

— Madison Logan (@MadisonAlise23) February 2, 2016

Everybody calm down. @HillaryClinton obviously just put in more time practicing her coin flips than @BernieSanders. #IowaCaucus #coingate

— Devin Mahoney (@oneillmahoney) February 2, 2016

@BernieSanders winning if it weren't for 3 delegates decided by a literal coin-toss. #IowaCaucus #coinspiracy #dems pic.twitter.com/yhVkE4u0Gg

— Alex Clark (@AlexCl4rk) February 2, 2016

We really, really need to have a better system than flipping coins for deciding hanging votes.. … #IowaCaucus #Coinghazi #Coingate …

— Minifig Barker (@Minifig81) February 2, 2016

we need more young people to get out and toss coins in new hampshire. #coingate #biasedcoins #coins4clinton #coinspiracy

— Vegas, baby! (@moxyfruvous) February 2, 2016

Hmmmm – what are the odds?? #coingate https://t.co/iELWp1RXmO

— Paul Singer (@singernews) February 2, 2016

.@imraansiddiqi hey come on Hillary won those coin tosses fair and square pic.twitter.com/jJsdszFTlv

— Gore Vidal Sassoon (@JimmyJazz1968) February 2, 2016


https://www.salon.com/2016/02/02/cr...at_made_her_winner_in_iowa/?source=newsletter
 

Gunky

Well-Known Member
They're not meaningless if you use them as an excuse to vote for someone you don't like :2c:

Apparently you believe the polls are meaningful enough to indulge your wishful thinking about a Sanders presidency. You do realize you are arguing both sides of the coin? And by the way I happen to like Clinton and think she is the better candidate for president. I agree with many things Bernie says but that doesn't mean I think he is the best candidate.

The problem is Bernie, by calling himself a socialist, puts himself too far out on the left (at least perception-wise) for him to win the general. He is just like Goldwater or McGovern, candidates who were viewed by a great many as extreme. He thrills the left but nobody else is going to vote for him. You can't win the general unless you have some sort of cross-over appeal and an appeal to independants. It is a given in this election that the repubs are going to nominate someone extreme. All the candidates are pretty far right. Much further than Mittens and he was bad enough. Why oh why would we democrats put up our own extreme candidate? We should be looking for the center that the repubs have so obligingly vacated. Especially when whoever wins is going to be so constrained that Sanders and Clinton would end up doing similar things.
 
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Joel W.

Deplorable Basement Dweller
Accessory Maker
SEATTLE – Democratic presidential candidate Bernie Sanders has collected more single donations in Washington state than all the other presidential candidates combined, The Seattle Times reports.
That is just the number of individual donations, not amount of money raised. Hillary Clinton has raised the most money of any candidate in the Evergreen State. Jeb Bush leads the Republicans in money raised in Washington.

The Times says Sanders has 14,322 itemized donations – and that’s just the ones that are large enough to be officially reported with the Federal Elections Commission. His total number of donations is an estimated 57,000.

Ben Carson is second with 12,000 donations. Clinton has 6,000 donations.
 

Chill Dude

Well-Known Member
I vote with my brain and my heart and I don't vote for someone just because I feel that they're more electable. I like visionaries with big ideas that I feel connected with that can "over time" move the democratic party to the left . Of course, if elected, Bernie could not immediately pass all aspects of his agenda.. Big ideas take time and the will of the people to overcome the obstacles to change over many years. Clinton is certainly qualified, but she's the status quo candidate and not much will change IMO..

Same goes if you're a conservative.. If your truly a right wing conservative vote Cruz instead of being a pussy who votes for Rubio(Cruz Lite) just because you feel he's more electable.
 

lwien

Well-Known Member
If your truly a right wing conservative vote Cruz instead of being a pussy who votes for Rubio(Cruz Lite) just because you feel he's more electable.

If you are truly a right wing conservative, why would you vote for someone who has a higher chance of losing to a liberal?
 
lwien,

Chill Dude

Well-Known Member
If you are truly a right wing conservative, why would you vote for someone who has a higher chance of losing to a liberal?

Because you would be voting your values. Why vote for someone just because he may be more electable..

I don't know if Bernie can win or not, but I'm willing to move forward with him for a chance to form a more perfect union:tup: if you don't think big then nothing great can happen. No one ever said it will be easy, but you have to stand up for your values... Win, lose or draw.
 

Gunky

Well-Known Member
-snip- Of course, if elected, Bernie could not immediately pass all aspects of his agenda..

He could not pass any aspects of his agenda. And because his agenda is so radical, like trying to get single-payer healthcare, he could pass even less. Where has he been? Pass single-payer healthcare now? Repubs own both houses of congress now, and likely will retain the House and maybe the Senate. They just voted to repeal Obamacare (which is a system they originated and Romney pioneered) for the 63rd time! The guy who just won the Iowa caucus is the fellow who keeps shutting down the government. This is the reality the next president faces. I love Bernie's schtick, but nothing he is saying is going to happen; electing him is not a magic spell.
 

Chill Dude

Well-Known Member
I love Bernie's schtick, but nothing he is saying is going to happen; electing him is not a magic spell.

True, but you get the ball rolling to move the country to the left.. If you do that, then over time you get bits and pieces of the leftist agenda in play..it could take many years and a big shift to the left in congress, but you have to fight for your values. If you're happy with where the country is at now, then Hillary is your candidate. Personally, I'm a true progressive who is not excited with the status quo and I'm willing to fight with Bernie!
 

Derrrpp

For the world is hollow and I have touched the sky
Nominating Bernie gives a huge opening to the repubs. Why do it when his policies are either identical or inferior to the front runner?
Because not everyone thinks his policies are either identical or inferior to Hillary's?

8 years of repub stonewalling and non-cooperation is going just vanish because Bernie says things I like and agree with? Nah.
No, but if we let their stonewalling and non-cooperation antics bully us into not even trying, then they get exactly what they wanted in the first place.

It is a given in this election that the repubs are going to nominate someone extreme. All the candidates are pretty far right. Much further than Mittens and he was bad enough. Why oh why would we democrats put up our own extreme candidate? We should be looking for the center that the repubs have so obligingly vacated.
If you ask me, the fact that the Republican candidates are all so extremely right-wing actually helps Bernie's chances at winning the general. Sure, Hillary is a safer bet, but IMO Bernie couldn't have picked a better time to run for president. If the Repubs had even a single "centrist" candidate, it might be a different story, but they've put all their proverbial eggs in one basket it seems...


:2c:

:peace:
 

Gunky

Well-Known Member
Hillary was one of the most liberal Senators. She has a long and proud record as a progressive, feminist and civil rights activist. Her positions in the Senate were considerably to the left of Bill Clinton. Unlike Sanders, Clinton respects voters enough to give it to them straight and is talking real world, not socialist fantasies. Reality tastes a lot less like candy than fantasy agendas do.

In this regard Bernie, great as he is, bears some resemblance to republican politicians who are constantly promising their right wing and evangelical supporters things that they can't deliver.
 
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Gunky,

lwien

Well-Known Member
Bottom line to all this? This has got to be the most entertaining primary that I've ever witnessed with over the top, bigoted Trump, Uncle Bernie, a crazed Jesus freak nephew who wants to save everybody, another young nephew from your mothers side of the family who THINKS he has all the answers and my be a bit strung out on meth or maybe just a bit of coke, your other uncle who's a doctor who happens to be strung out on tranqs, and then, who walks in but your old Aunt Hillary who thinks everyone but her is crazy.

It's kinda like going to a family Thanksgiving dinner, eh?
 

grokit

well-worn member
Hillary was one of the most liberal Senators. She has a long and proud record as a progressive, feminist and civil rights activist. Her positions in the Senate were considerably to the left of Bill Clinton. Unlike Sanders, Clinton respects voters enough to give it to them straight and is talking real world, not socialist fantasies. Reality tastes a lot less like candy than fantasy agendas do.
The flipside to this is that hillary has made a lot of enemies on the hill, and she would inherit many of her husband's as well. I think that bernie would be better able to work with this congress once elected.

I also believe that bernie would do better in the general election than hillary would, one big reason is that the youth vote is highly motivated to support him. I realize that some of you have a different opinion.
 
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little maggie

Well-Known Member
I know I asked this before but given what seems like movement towards more traditional Christianity I wonder if socialism is the biggest obstacle Bernie has to deal with. People aren't talking about it but it really seems unlikely that a Jew will be voted president for some time.
 

Gunky

Well-Known Member
I know I asked this before but given what seems like movement towards more traditional Christianity I wonder if socialism is the biggest obstacle Bernie has to deal with. People aren't talking about it but it really seems unlikely that a Jew will be voted president for some time.
Yep. It's wrong and unfair (I'm Jewish myself) but the world is as it is, not as it should be. It adds another layer of vulnerability: not just a socialist but a Jewish socialist. Oy vey!
 

Gunky

Well-Known Member
from wiki, "Sanders has said he is "proud to be Jewish" but "not particularly religious", and is not actively involved with any organized religion."
That probably describes a majority of American Jews. In an ideal world none of this would matter but in the America we live in it kinda does. My suggestion: let's have a woman prez next, which is already a big step and a useful one (and would give her some interesting leverage) and after that we can have a Jewish president.
 
Gunky,
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