The 2016 Presidential Candidates Thread

[Roth]

Seriously
So many different americas all you can do is lol (and vote)

I can't stop staring at that picture. It's a car crash; horrifying, yet I can't look away.

The most disturbing part in the whole image in the woman with the baby in front. She literally looks like she's ready to eat her baby if Trump commanded it.

The woman on the far bottom, right is great too. She's staring, thinking, "How the hell did I end up here?"

 

[CarolKing]

This is part of an article from the Daily Beast. Pertaining to the Building that Trump was having built. Donald Trump I'm sure we will find out has a lot of ghosts in the closets and a lot of buried secrets under the bed. This of course is public knowledge. I'm sure he has the money to pay people off.

The appeals court found that if the Trump parties had not known of the Polish workers, “they should have known.” According to The New York Times, Trump maintained that he was not aware there were undocumented laborers on the site. He said he was also unaware of the circumstances they were working under. He insisted he was not liable for the union payments.

“All we did was to try to keep a job going that was started by someone else,” Trump told The New York Times in 1998. “In fact, we helped people and it has cost a lot of money in legal fees.”

The case was finally settled in 1999 and then sealed. That was 19 years after the demolition began, 16 years after the suit was filed.

Trump did not return a request for comment placed through a spokeswoman.

The tower that is his crown jewel and symbol of his wealth continues to stand on ground cleared by 200 undocumented workers who labored off the books, 12 hours a day, seven days a week, for no more than $5 an hour with no overtime.

 

[CarolKing]

Bernie Sanders Closing On Hillary In Iowa According To New Poll
DOUG MATACONIS · SUNDAY, AUGUST 30, 2015 · 4 COMMENTS


In addition to showing Donald Trump and Ben Carson leading the Republican field in the Hawkeye State, the new Des Moines Register poll also shows something we have not seen yet in the Democratic race in Iowa, Bernie Sanders is closing in on Hillary:

Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders is rapidly closing the gap with former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, but she still maintains a solid lead in Iowa’s Democratic caucuses, according to a poll released Saturday.

Clinton, the Democratic frontrunner and establishment favorite, is drawing 37 percent of the vote. Sanders earns 30 percent of the vote. Vice President Joe Biden, who is still wavering on making a run, earns 14 percent. This is the first time Clinton has fallen short of a majority in the Iowa poll, conducted by pollster Ann Selzer for the Des Moines Register and Bloomberg, this year.

 

[Scott A]

Does anyone really take the comb over or the socialist seriously? I mean we would be pretty obviously fucked with either one.

 

[Roth]

Does anyone really take the comb over or the socialist seriously? I mean we would be pretty obviously fucked with either one.

You did really just compare Trump and Sanders?


I also love how people have so vilified the idea of "socialism" and "government". Yet when you ask them about certain "socialist" policies, they're all for it. Fox really has done a good job with their demagoguery.

But to answer your question, yes, I absolutely take "the socialist" seriously.

And to clarify, he calls himself a democratic socialist. A hybrid of the two. Pure capitalism is just as scary to me as pure socialism. You can't be blind to the other, you have to incorporate what actually works and makes sense.

 

[Scott A]

You did really just compare Trump and Sanders?


I also love how people have so vilified the idea of "socialism" and "government". Yet when you ask them about certain "socialist" policies, they're all for it. Fox really has done a good job with their demagoguery.

But to answer your question, yes, I absolutely take "the socialist" seriously.

And to clarify, he calls himself a democratic socialist. A hybrid of the two. Pure capitalism is just as scary to me as pure socialism. You can't be blind to the other, you have to incorporate what actually works and makes sense.

Yes I compared their likeliness to get elected.

 

[Roth]

Yes I compared their likeliness to get elected.

That's different, and not at all clear in your original post. I took it to mean that we'd all be fucked by both of their policies.

 

[CarolKing]

Does anyone really take the comb over or the socialist seriously? I mean we would be pretty obviously fucked with either one.

Stranger things have happened. We voted Mr. "I'm a Uniter not a divider" as president twice in this country. We haven't recovered yet. I don't know if we will ever recover. He got us involved with a war that changed the face of the world. Look at the rippling effects.

Don't be complacent about who our next president will be.

EDIT

 

[Joel W.]

Don't be complacent about who our next president will be.

Well said. This is why the pendulum swings both ways. People only vote when it really matters, when times are bad. Then things slowly get better, we forget how bad things were, everything is good, no need to vote, no worries.

The swing begins again.

 

[grokit]

I think as front-runners they have to be taken seriously. We're a year early though.

 

[CarolKing]

A picture of Bernie as a young man. He looks so much like one of my friends from years ago. I loved this pic of him. Look at all that hair.


WTF Kanye running for president in 2020? It looked like he was serious.

 

[syrupy]

I'm no historical expert, but I got the impression that the 2nd amendment exists for reasons beyond hunting. Didn't Jefferson say "And what country can preserve it's liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms."

For disclosure, I believe he should just come out against the 2nd amendment then, and not bring hunting into it.

Edit: As frightening as Kanye in 2020, even scarier is Kim Kardashian as a potential first lady?

 

[grokit]

Re the 2nd amendment:
It's about having a citizen's brigade (militia) to protect the citizenry from tyranny.
The hunting/sporting part is more of a privilege.

 

[Scott A]

That's different, and not at all clear in your original post. I took it to mean that we'd all be fucked by both of their policies.

We would be fucked with both policies just in different ways. I dont think either will be even considered to be in the race by the time we actually get close to primaries.

 

[Joel W.]

 

[CarolKing]

Rand Paul Attacks Christie, Bush On Marijuana Politics
Posted by Rick Thompson at 10:00 AM on September 18, 2015Ending Marijuana Prohibition


During the CNN Republican Presidential Debate, which aired on the cable news network September 16, Senator Rand Paul of Kentucky took New Jersey Governor Chris Christie and Florida Governor Jeb Bush to the woodshed over their stated policies on marijuana. Christie was attacked by Paul over his proposal to use federal law to eliminate state medical and recreational marijuana programs. Governor Bush was challenged about his NO vote on Florida’s 2014 state referendum on medical marijuana. Governor Christie agreed with the stated summary of his position as follows: “If you are getting high in Colorado today… enjoy it until January of

Read More
I know Rand Paul has been flip flopping all over the place with his stance on cannabis.

 

[grokit]

 

[Gunky]

Rand Paul said some things about the war on drugs that were right in the debate. Too bad he's such a gibbering, anti-government fool in virtually every other area.

 

[CuckFumbustion]

From the F**K Y** thread and pardon my f-bombs. It was thread appropriate.

Sic (Donald Trump)I used to feel that way when he ran as a democrat. If you actually examine how both parties on how they actually vote and put aside their gassy election year rhetoric, Then they both start to resemble each other that much more. The higher up you go, the greater that resemblance. It is all a shell game and an illusion of choice. Only us poor people on the bottom are actually having any sort of political debate. I would prefer to have India's model of having over 1000 parties. And break up both monopolies. Did you know both parties have written different laws in an attempt to exclude third parties and protect themselves?

First thing that is cast off when an official takes office is their own dignity. Fuck Self abasement for political gain. Doesn't matter where you stand politically, One party will make you angry while the other party will make you crazy. I don't have the stomach to watch this sideshow and frankly I'm sick of the phony discourse between and within both parties that are engaged in every election cycle. Fuck phony discourse. I just want to know what laws you are for and against passing. Y'know representative government.

I don't need a 'leader' much less an egotist 'in charge'. Just an honest administrator. Here is my takeaway for every presidential debate I've been hearing as of late.
It is slightly abbreviated but applicable.
Lewis Black on the difference between Democrats and Republicans

Well, I finally got up the nerve to watch parts of the CNN 'debate'. I used to think Chris Christie was a moderate, perhaps a bit of a tool, But Now I think he is a total control freak.
The kind that will throw people in jail to keep his fallacy of social engineering. Bridge-gate took on a whole meaning when I saw him spout his rhetoric. This prison system in his state is so deplorable that out of state criminals are told simply to leave NJ after being arrested and candidly TOLD WHY.

I don't expect anyone to share my own political views. But I have known about the Libertarian Party since I was a teenager and it was a lot less fashionable then. I agree with say 85% of what Dr Paul has been saying for over 20 years. his message, if anything has been consistent. He has co-sponsored bills with Barnie Frank over the legalization of MJ and Hemp. Unfortunately, to be a president you have to go through the self abasement process when joining the RepubloDemocratics in office. I would not vote for Bernie Sanders, But if I 'ahem' had a gun held to my head, I would choose him over Hillary.

Rand Paul at least reminds people about the constitution at the podium and could reach some compromise with handing power back to the states. Just makes me cringe when I see the debasement process happening right in front of me. Rubio is obliviously threatened and can't even keep his #1 aide inline.

Oh and this whole affair of Trumps obsession with reminding where he stands in the polls and trying to use it as salt on the other candidates. My memory hasn't faded from the past
4 elections, and polls account for two things near the end of election time. Jack and squat, and Jack just left town.

Re the 2nd amendment:
It's about having a citizen's brigade (militia) to protect the citizenry from tyranny.
The hunting/sporting part is more of a privilege.

Wow, way to turn that argument on it's head. I've never heard about point of hunting being the privilege and the militias being the single impetus. But hunting was considered a privilege for citizens in the old world. Back when the aristocracy owned most of the property. Still is in some sense in the UK if you examine their interpretation of property rights.

 

[Gunky]

Rand Paul's brand of libertarianism combined with his standard repub xenophobia, homophobia, racism, anti-government laissez-faire capitalism, Christian chauvinism, Ayn Rand stupidities, etc is the sort of naive fantasy that people who have no notion of the history of capitalism imagine might be the way forward. All of that has been tried before (over and over) and it what it would do is deliver us all into the hands of the few, the wealthy, the powerful and well-armed oligarchs, plutocrats, bullies, and dictators. Paul is a poorly educated demogogue selling a version of feudalism masquerading as 'individualism' (you're on your own, jack! and don't even think about collective bargaining) and 'freedom' (the rich and privileged will be fully free to rape you over good).

All the republicans in the debates are trying to hoodwink you into believing they can return the United States to the growth and dynamism of the 1950's, except that some of most important conditions of the fifties - higher tax rates on the wealthy, a big role for labor unions, smaller disparities between worker pay and boss pay, wages that can support a middle class lifestyle, etc etc - are precisely what they are fighting against.

 

[CarolKing]

Why are there just 2 Democrats running for president so far? I would like to have more of a choice. I just don't like Hilary Clinton, she comes across as being fake and cold unlike Elizabeth Warren who comes across as a change and authentic. She's not running so I'm backing Bernie Sanders. It may come down to Hilary and a Republican then I will be forced to go with Hilary. If Joe Biden runs I'm not sure how I feel about him. I will vote Democrat when it comes down to the election.

 

[hd_rider]

I hope Biden decides to run. Admittedly, I don't know a great deal about him, but from what I've seen in the media and on television, he seems quite "genuine" to me. When he talks, he makes sense to me.

I simply cannot stand Hillary. She seems completely dishonest, calculating, and deceitful.

I sure hope I am not forced to pick between Hillary and a Republican.

 

[CuckFumbustion]

Not sure where that is coming from. I so try not to confuse Rand's positions from his fathers. No system has all the answers and someone will always come up short when ANY decision is being made. That is why I don't think a large central government has ever had the answers. It is counter-intuitive to the idea process. States do look at the progress of other states to decide what to do next. What is happening in Colorado is a prime example of all this. I'm sure they did look at the laws of the other 50 states before forging ahead and forming their own model. Then other states took their steps and opened up the debate further. Notice that federal officials had to reconsider their own positions and grow some backbone when the statistics came back 1 year later. This would never have happened on the Federal level on it's own. Too much group-think and too slow of a beast to react to any sea change happening on the ground.

Ayn Rand is the part I disagree with the most. I'm an ideas man and don't need a 'leader'. Even one who sees the 'virtue of selfishness'. But I have cherry picked a few of her ideas.
Ideas and laws tend to outlive people. And I despise any form of demagoguery or conflation, That some feel is necessary to make there point. Biggest conflation that ideas come in two forms. Hence my 1000 parties argument. I consider myself an independent that believes the constitution has a lot to offer, if it was properly enforced. IMO, however it never has been fully implemented! Much less used as a foundation to build on. And so it goes....

I don't want to demonize the rich. I want to try to change their minds first. Beside government will always be at the far end of the curve as far positive change and show up at the last minute to claim victory. Like say civil rights. They seem to thrive and perpetuate a class hostility, when better ideas would benefit all. Often times they get in the way of good people who genuinely want to help society.

And there is different separations and interpretations even in the smaller parties. Libertarians are no different. So glad to see 3 different types of libertarians running in the last election.
Can't honestly look as your "-obias" and compare that to Rand's actual voting record. Which is where the rubber meets the road. IMO.
The tax system by it's very nature corrupts. Turns honest people into criminals. Smaller gov requires less revenue. Plus states are rising in population and the problems of one state doesn't
necessarily share the same problems of another state.

 

[Gunky]

"Small government". It's total bullshit. It's like tv ads for soap that tell you you get More! More than what they don't mention. But it's more. Same with 'small government'. People tout this nowadays. Smaller than what? It's a stupid conception of how to understand government or evaluate its effectiveness. Small good, big bad. Four legs good two legs bad. Note that this absurdity has no limits whatsoever. There is no small that would be too small. Small is just an absolute good in itself! It's the height of stupidity, which is being fed to you by the .1 percent. Why? Because they don't want any regulation and don't want to pay any taxes. Therefore the government must be tiny!

The "small" government envisioned by Rand Paul is not there when a Great Recession comes along and just as you were thinking about retiring you are wiped out by economic forces far outside of your control. There won't be any Social Security check for you, even though you lost your home and most of your savings in that last bust (the wealthy, of course, swooped in afterwards and acquired all the real estate homeowners had to shed and stocks they were forced to sell; the rich have no problem weathering boom and bust and came out richer), because small government means you are fucking on your own, pal.

 

[bounce5]

Bernie Sanders: States Should be Able to Legalize Cannabis “Without Restrictions”

http://marijuanapolitics.com/bernie...le-to-legalize-cannabis-without-restrictions/