The 2016 Presidential Candidates Thread

[cybrguy]

The consequences of Trump’s victory are coming into focus
11/09/16 09:09 AM

By Steve Benen
David Axelrod, the former senior strategist for President Obama, has long espoused an interesting theory about national elections. As Axelrod explained in January, “Open-seat presidential elections are shaped by perceptions of the style and personality of the outgoing incumbent. Voters rarely seek the replica of what they have.”

By Axelrod’s reasoning, it’s expected that voters will choose a new president who is roughly the opposite of the departing executive – an assertion that looks quite sound this morning.

Some of this will be obvious immediately, because the shifts in presidential style will be jarring. President Obama is measured; Donald Trump is erratic. Obama is intellectual; Trump is incurious. Obama is honest; Trump is pathological. Obama is serious and committed to sound policymaking; Trump is clownish and dismissive of the details of public affairs.

But come next year, the stylistic differences will be an inconsequential afterthought by the time a Trump/Pence administration begins governing alongside a far-right, radicalized Republican majority in the House and Senate. The New Republic’s Brian Beutler had a good piece on this overnight:

At a minimum, Republicans are going to do incredible violence to President Barack Obama’s accomplishments…. Trump will almost certainly abrogate Obama’s international climate agreement and the global powers agreement preventing Iran from creating their own nuclear arsenal. Republicans will send Trump legislation undermining Obama’s legacy everywhere they can find congressional majorities to do so, and Trump will sign those bills. Republicans don’t know how to repeal Obamacare, let alone replace it. But they will try.

The Supreme Court will return to conservative control, and over the next four years, it may very well become far more conservative. Voting rights will be further weakened; the constitutional right to abortion is vulnerable to abolition.

But things could get much, much worse.
There’s a temptation among some to try to look for comfort where available. We collectively hit an iceberg, but maybe we can cling to some floating debris for a while until help arrives. Americans are resilient, and we’ve been through rough times before.

I’d like to offer some kind of assurances along these lines, but I can’t do so with any honesty.​

Millions of families are going to lose their health benefits. Efforts to combat the climate crisis will end and move backwards. The tax system will become radically more regressive. Wall Street will be freed from safeguards and recently created layers of accountability, and the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau will be decimated.

Immigrants who consider the United States the only home they’ve ever known will be forced from the country. Minority communities will experience less justice and fewer voting rights. Higher education will be further out of reach for many young people.

The United States will lose the world’s respect. The Supreme Court will move even further to the right, and the clock on reproductive rights will be turned back a half-century.

This is really just a sampling. At no point in modern American history have we seen a political party as radicalized as the contemporary Republican Party, and as a result of the decisions voters made this year, that GOP will dominate federal policymaking for the next several years – making changes that will affect the nation and the world for generations.

And if we look beyond legislative measures, we also see the worst major-party presidential candidate in history who will have access to nuclear codes.

Yes, there are some political structures and institutions in place that may offer us some semblance of protection, but Trump has made no secret of his hostility towards democratic norms, his indifference towards traditions, and his affinity for authoritarian ideals.

I’m looking for a silver lining. I don’t see one.

 

[Tranquility]

A little safety question. Does a wise person stop posting if the Trump's administration appointed attorney general is someone excessively anti-cannabis such as Chris Christie?

Medical users are protected by law. In one of the few good things a local (to me) politician, Dana Rohrabacher, has done is eliminate federal funding for DOJ to challenge medical marijuana. In my federal circuit (9th), the appellate court felt that means federal prosecutions cannot be done if the suspect was following local law. U.S. v. McIntosh ( https://cdn.ca9.uscourts.gov/datastore/opinions/2016/08/16/15-10117.pdf ). From the summary:

In ten consolidated interlocutory appeals and petitions for writs of mandamus arising from three district courts in two states, the panel vacated the district court’s orders denying relief to the appellants, who have been indicted for violating the Controlled Substances Act, and who sought dismissal of their indictments or to enjoin their prosecutions on the basis of a congressional appropriations rider, Consolidated Appropriations Act, 2016, Pub. L. No. 114-113, § 542, 129 Stat. 2242, 2332-33 (2015), that prohibits the Department of Justice fromspending funds to prevent states’ implementation of their medical marijuana laws.

...
The panel held that § 542 prohibits DOJ from spending funds from relevant appropriations acts for the prosecution of individuals who engaged in conduct permitted by state medical marijuana laws and who fully complied with such laws. The panel wrote that individuals who do not strictly comply with all state-law conditions regarding the use, distribution, possession, and cultivation of medical marijuana have engaged in conduct that is unauthorized, and that prosecuting such individuals does not violate § 542. Remanding to the district courts, the panel instructed that if DOJ wishes to continue these prosecutions, the appellants are entitled to evidentiary hearings to determine whether their conduct was completely authorized by state law. The panel wrote that in determining the appropriate remedy for any violation of § 542, the district courts should consider the temporal nature of the lack of funds along with the appellants’ rights to a speedy trial.​

 

[cybrguy]

For all of you who dislike my long posts of other peoples writing, this may well be the last. I have tried to include things that others might find useful. But the purpose of this thread has expired and I imagine the mods will be glad to see it go. I have found it enlightening, informative, instructive, annoying, infuriating, and divisive. Thanks for letting me hang out here. See ya around...

The Test We Face
by Nancy LeTourneau
November 9, 2016 2:34 PM

This is one of those days when I both love and hate being a writer. I hate it because it’s my job to try and provide some meaning to what happened yesterday at a moment when I honestly feel speechless. The truth is that most of what I thought to be true about our country leading up to this election seems to be wrong. It’s time to re-examine all of those assumptions. To pretend otherwise is a lie.

On the other hand, I love it because writing gives me the opportunity to collect my thoughts and try to organize them. Without the need to do that, I suspect that I’d simply be roiling today from one thing to another with no coherence. What follows here is my best attempt to represent what I’ve put together so far.

This morning I was reflecting on what it was like in the weeks after the 9/11 terrorist attack. What I remember most is how alone I felt. It seemed like after the shock wore off, the entire country skipped over the grieving process and landed permanently on anger and the need for revenge. I felt left behind with my overwhelming sadness and confusion about what had just happened.

In subsequent years, I found out that I was not alone. Others told me that they felt the same way. It’s just that we were all quietly trying to heal the wound and sort things out on our own while the voices of anger and revenge were on public display for everyone to see. This country made some major mistakes as a result. So I learned my lesson. As much as I’d like to retreat and try to figure this all out in private, it is through writing that I will try to add my voice to the mix in favor of slowing down and paying attention to the the deeper questions that we need to struggle with.

I know that personally I need to create some space for that process to happen. So there are some things that I will either do or not do. First of all, I’ll recognize that I am grieving a loss. It’s not the loss of a person – but of an assumption about where we as a country are on this journey of “perfecting our union.” The America that just elected Donald Trump as our next president is not the country I thought we were. Before I get busy trying to figure out who we actually are, I need to give myself the time to grieve that loss.

In the movie The Interpreter, Nicole Kidman’s character says something that has always struck me as very powerful. She said, “revenge is a lazy form of grief.” The process of grieving takes time and it is extremely uncomfortable. We try to short-change that and control things by moving on too fast – usually in an effort to lash out in anger. When I notice myself doing that, I’m going to try to step back and check in to see whether or not that is what I am authentically feeling.

The second thing is something I won’t do. I won’t reach for quick or simplistic reasons to explain what happened – especially those that are designed to do nothing more than assign blame. There is no one reason why this country elected Donald Trump and it will take time to sort through what everyone – including the Republicans themselves – missed. People make names for themselves in this business by pretending that they have “the answer.” But that does nothing more than create the kinds of memes that are impervious to actual data and understanding. Beyond that, as Anne Kim wrote, the assignment of blame creates the kinds of divisions that we just tried to overcome in Trump’s distorted vision of America.

The final thing I won’t do is to make sweeping projections about what all of this means. To be sure, I agree with David Remnick that the election of Donald Trump combined with a Republican-controlled Congress is an American tragedy.

There are, inevitably, miseries to come: an increasingly reactionary Supreme Court; an emboldened right-wing Congress; a President whose disdain for women and minorities, civil liberties and scientific fact, to say nothing of simple decency, has been repeatedly demonstrated. Trump is vulgarity unbounded, a knowledge-free national leader who will not only set markets tumbling but will strike fear into the hearts of the vulnerable, the weak, and, above all, the many varieties of Other whom he has so deeply insulted. The African-American Other. The Hispanic Other. The female Other. The Jewish and Muslim Other. The most hopeful way to look at this grievous event—and it’s a stretch—is that this election and the years to follow will be a test of the strength, or the fragility, of American institutions. It will be a test of our seriousness and resolve.​

But throughout this election season I refused to take Donald Trump’s actual policy proposals seriously. He’s a con man who said whatever he needed to say at the time to inflame his supporters. The divisions in the Republican Party that were the fodder of so much discussion over the last few months are still there. And I am reminded of how Mitch McConnell and John Boehner crowed about all they’d get done following the 2014 midterms when Republicans won both branches of Congress – and then failed so miserably. This is not a party that knows how to govern and – as we’ve seen from Trump over and over – his response to questions about what he would actually do were often not much more than “something great.”

Beyond the “othering” of so many of our citizens, we can be more certain of what won’t get done than we can be about what will happen. Inaction on the two biggest problems we face as a country – climate change and income inequality – are certainties. Having staked their claim on things like repealing Obamacare and funding for Planned Parenthood, I don’t see how Republicans will be able to avoid moving on those fronts. There will surely be no immigration reform. But as we saw throughout the campaign, Trump’s promises to build a wall and deport ’em all waned under the scrutiny of the general election.

On a global scale, Trump – like other presidents – will have much more leeway to act independently of Congress. That is perhaps what concerns me the most. Trade wars, backing out of our commitments in the Paris Climate Accord and the collapse of the Iranian nuclear agreement are just a few of the things that we can expect. Contrary to so much of Trump’s bluster during the campaign, these things provide a tremendous opening for ISIS, Russia and China.

Recently I’ve heard a few people suggest that if any of us ever wondered how we might have reacted to the institution of slavery or the Jim Crow South had we lived during those eras, right now is our opportunity to find out. As Reminick said above, this will be our time to test our seriousness and resolve. For the future of our country and our children…I certainly hope we pass that test.

 

[BeardedCrow]

As much as I hate Donald Trump, and I do hate him.... I do relish the opportunity to watch this series of events unfold; be it at the expense of my freedoms but that's hardly negotiable.

I don't think Donald himself knows this yet because he's basking in his victory, but the pressure has just begun to bear down on him.

1 year from now we will still be at war in the middle east, we will still have issues with illegal immigration, we definitely will still have economic issues and a lack of jobs. And who is it all of us will look at and blame?

Donald said he knew how to defeat ISIS
Donald said only he could fix the economy
Donald said he would make us Great Again.

If he fails to address these issues given an almost impossible expectation, or if he makes any mistakes or unexpected circumstances arise that make him fall short, he will be under fire from everyone.


I look forward to the show

Very few presidents have ever delivered on their promise. He will be no different.

 

[Diggy Smalls]

A friend of mine was just asked "what are all you niggers gonna do now that Trump is in office, huh?"
To say racism played no role in Trump's election is a fallacy.

 

[ReggieB]

A friend of mine was just asked "what are all you niggers gonna do now that Trump I'd in office, huh?"
To say racism played no role in Trump's election is a fallacy.

Unfortunately they said the same about brexit and the same thing happened.

 

[turk]

...he will probably be no worse than Reagan...although that was quite bad for us...certainly no worse than bill Clinton...who increased the war on drugs..gave us nafta...and locked us up at unprecedented levels...just another nice day in America..maybe we can just..pray it all away...always a effective policy...

 

[MyCollie]

Trump may very well appoint Chris Christie Attorney General which could cancel out all of the huge strides that have been taken toward legalization. Christie has explicitly said that he would bring the wrath of the federal government down on all the states that have legal/liberal cannabis policies. federal government doesn't see a dime of those tax revenues

also, does anybody seriously believe that this regime will be against the private prison industry?

whole lotta wishful thinking going down in here

I doubt Christie will be AG but I agree with your other opinions - especially the last sentence. I'm expecting a big effort to shut it all down.

 

[Diggy Smalls]

Brexit and Trump are both about xenophobia deep down. Xenophobia and bigotry. I heard the term "white-lash" and I think that's true. Much of white America was scared of a "black house" and this is what it looks like when they fight back. We were dreaming if we thought white America would elect the first woman right after the first black man.

 

[turk]

...that...was the wrong woman...and they knew it..

 

[ReggieB]

Because they both were about xenophobia deep down. Xenophobia and bigotry. I heard the term "white-lash" and I think that's true. Much of white America was scared of a "black house" and this is what it looks like when they fight back. We were dreaming if we thought with America would elect the first woman right after the first black man.

Kind of but it's the way it was done, they could've picked almost any republican candidate and won it, why do it with such an offensive c**t in such an offensive and divisive manner?

 

[turk]

...because they can..and really they don't give a shit...they got paid...and you know what...they will be hired again...every single one of them...they are dem loyalists..they will work again...probably right now in another campaign..that's...how they roll.

 

[Vicki]

Are the dems going to take a page from the repubs playbook and offer the same obstructionism and encumbrance to the Trump administrations every single fart like they did to Obama's administration? Of course...if they can.

The Republicans are the ones that obstructed Obama for 8 years, not the Democrats. Why shouldn't the Democrats and Indepedents, etc., oppose Obama and the Republicans. The Republicans obstructed for 8 years. Now, the Democrats, etc., are just supposed to bend over and take their shit? I don't think so.

 

[grokit]

The newly-elected mayor of burlington, at the other end of a life of service to others


Thanks for all you've done, we really missed the boat in 2016 it's america's great loss

 

[Trypsy Summers]

“When the tyrant has disposed of foreign enemies by conquest or treaty and there is nothing to fear from them, then he is always stirring up some war or other, in order that the people may require a leader.” – Plato

“As Tavistock’s researchers showed, it was important that the victims of mass brainwashing not be aware that their environment was being controlled; there should thus be a vast number of sources for information, whose messages could be varied slightly, so as to mask the sense of external control.” - Specialist of mass brainwashing, L. Wolfe

Not even saying.....


Peace

 

[grokit]

The shit is really gonna hit the fan when these bastards call for a convention of states to change our sacred law of the land, the us constitution. This is mostly the work of the koch brothers and their ilk.

edit: This is what a soft coup looks like

Corporate America Is Just 6 States Short of a Constitutional Convention
"as of today, 28 states—six shy of the two-thirds threshold required by Article V—have passed resolutions calling for a constitutional convention to consider a balanced budget amendment."

A sampling of their rhetoric (their emphasis not mine):

Against all odds, an outsider, Donald Trump, is now our President-Elect.
This is an incredible moment in American history and signifies not the end of the fight, but instead the beginning of the real fight.
President Trump will now head to the heart of the beast, Washington DC, and attempt to do what no President has ever done...tame the federal leviathan.
The entire federal apparatus will align against any attempts at reform. It has always done so, and it has always done so successfully.
But the beast has one huge weakness.
Article V of the Constitution gives states the authority to call a convention to restrain the scope, power and jurisdiction of the federal government...​

http://inthesetimes.com/article/18940/alec-balanced-budget-corporate-constitutional-convention

 

[Scott A]

Brexit and Trump are both about xenophobia deep down. Xenophobia and bigotry. I heard the term "white-lash" and I think that's true. Much of white America was scared of a "black house" and this is what it looks like when they fight back. We were dreaming if we thought white America would elect the first woman right after the first black man.

The white lash term and most of your post is pure race baiting.

 

[Baron23]

I'm sorry you feel that way about the "people" of America. You must be very sour and hateful of others that disagree with you.

That was my thought.....if they aren't a "basket of deporables" they must just be stupid.

Gosh, it can't just simply be that over 55M people in this country dont' see eye to eye with you, Carol? Yeah?

 

[HighSeasSailor]

Angry Dems Flood Streets in Protest

Remember the good old days when people didn't riot over US elections?

Fuck the Clintons. This country needs a Roosevelt.

 

[CarolKing]

That's my America that I know. Protesters in the streets chanting "not my president". Love to see people voicing their opinions. What are folks telling themselves that felt like they didn't have anybody to vote for - I understand that. Look at the alternative.

We will make America great but not with Trump's kind of help.

 

[Scott A]

That's my America that I know. Protesters in the streets chanting "not my president". Love to see people voicing their opinions. What are folks telling themselves that felt like they didn't have anybody to vote for - I understand that. Look at the alternative.

We will make America great but not with Trump's kind of help.

As someone who voted but didnt vote for president im telling my self the same thing I have been since the primaries were over. Thank god its only 4 years.

 

[HighSeasSailor]

That's my America that I know. Protesters in the streets chanting "not my president". Love to see people voicing their opinions. What are folks telling themselves that felt like they didn't have anybody to vote for - I understand that. Look at the alternative.

We will make America great but not with Trump's kind of help.

Accomplishing what, other than pissing off people trying to commute to work?

Look at it from the other perspective. When you cruise by a women's clinic and see those protesters, do you think they're doing a wonderful service by voicing their opinion? Or do you think it would be nice for the ladies who require the clinic's services if they didn't have to see that bullshit on the way in?

Maybe I'm just getting old, but I'm increasingly failing to see the point of making noise for its own sake. Major issues aren't settled by zealots with sharpies and spare time, they're settled by lawyers and cold hard cash, and plebicite referendums that the law forbids the gov't to ignore. Cannabis has been driven like a wedge into the political system, and it's been done with intelligent dissemination of information, funds to supply quality lawyers, and using the law to give the people the final say. Protests are for angry kids.

 

[CarolKing]

Accomplishing what, other than pissing off people trying to commute to work?

Look at it from the other perspective. When you cruise by a women's clinic and see those protesters, do you think they're doing a wonderful service by voicing their opinion? Or do you think it would be nice for the ladies who require the clinic's services if they didn't have to see that bullshit on the way in?

Maybe I'm just getting old, but I'm increasingly failing to see the point of making noise for its own sake. Major issues aren't settled by zealots with sharpies and spare time, they're settled by lawyers and cold hard cash, and plebicite referendums that the law forbids the gov't to ignore. Cannabis has been driven like a wedge into the political system, and it's been done with intelligent dissemination of information, funds to supply quality lawyers, and using the law to give the people the final say. Protests are for angry kids.

I'm enjoying the fact that people are voicing their option of an election that they felt was a shit show. I'm sure I would feel differently if I was having to commute through it but I'm not. Watching it on TV. We have the right to peaceably protest, as long as we are living in a free country. We don't have a perfect system. We work with what we have.

If the Supreme Court decides to stop abortions I will be protesting too. If rights are restricted for gays I will be protesting. Ive protested before and it won't be the last.

Folks have a genuine fear out there. I don't blame anybody for protesting. I say go for it. As long as nobody is breaking the law.

Edit
I don't agree when the protesting gets out of hand and it's unsafe.

 

[HighSeasSailor]

but not all the time - Trump protests after he won a democratic election seem excessive to me, however, I will fight for anyone's right to protest just about anything. That is part of my love affair with America.

Oh, don't get me wrong, it's a fundamental right. So is burning a flag. I will gladly defend the right to continue doing those things. I very strongly believe that freedom of speech must be a double edged sword, that you simply must allow the good with the bad, the disgusting with the great, and the histrionic with the serious. If you ingrain judgements on this into the legal system, you have removed the fundamental flexibility that makes American goverment sustainable at all.

Nevertheless, I think actually doing them is most often a childish act carried out by people with little sense of perspective. Much like the threats to emigrate to Canada that are now a media joke.

 

[grokit]

Fuck the Clintons. This country needs a Roosevelt.

We had one, but the dnc railroaded him out of the primaries so killary could run against drumpf.
Because even if she lost before, we would be sure to vote for her the second time around

America and the world will be feeling the ramifications of this election past any of our lifetimes.