The 2016 Presidential Candidates Thread
- Thread starter CarolKing
- Start date
Gunky
Well-Known Member
I don't think so. It was a mistake and she immediately recognized it and walked it back some. That it is probably true doesn't matter, it was a truth that sounds bad, even Romneyesque in a bizarro way coming out of her mouth. Nevertheless I don't think it is significant - she is after all dismissing racists and xenophobes, not everybody who doesn't pay taxes.
Polls go up and down and in the end I suspect Trump will lose by a landslide. Still it depresses me a lot to discover the surprising number of people who say they support him despite his birtherism, religious bigotry, thinly veiled white supremacism, demonstrably racist rants, pathological lying, insane foreign policy notions, anti-semitic campaign staff etc . It makes me feel more suspicious and doubtful and cynical about my fellow countrymen and that is a shame.
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lwien
Well-Known Member
The mindset of Trump supporters has ALWAYS been part of the US fabric. The only difference here is now they have someone of prominence who can validate them so they can all feel safe and come out from under their rocks.
So @Gunky, you shouldn't feel suspicious or doubtful. They've always been here. They've just come out of the closet. The good thing is that, for the most part, they are of a generation that will shortly die out and the younger ones that remain will hopefully be shamed into oblivion.
Hey, gotta be a bit optimistic here, eh?
So @Gunky, you shouldn't feel suspicious or doubtful. They've always been here. They've just come out of the closet. The good thing is that, for the most part, they are of a generation that will shortly die out and the younger ones that remain will hopefully be shamed into oblivion.
Hey, gotta be a bit optimistic here, eh?
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Stevenski
Enter the Dragon
I think there are a lot of people who are underestimating the amount of people who are saying fuck all about it but will vote Trump.
Case in point. They don't get mouthy or strut about like peacocks but come election day they will go & vote Trump without a fuss & without parading their affiliation. Combine that with the abundance of people who won't vote as they see no one representing them & Amerikkka could be in for a rather rude shock.
Seeing the results of the federal election in my country & the Brexit vote is quite telling about the number of people who have been "shamed into silence" by the moral minority yet come election day go & vote the way they want.
This forum has done a good job of ensuring Trump supporters keep quiet here through a campaign reeking of smug idealism but all that achieves is a mutual fantasy circle jerk & dearth of objective discussion. The smart Republicans here just avoid this thread, keep their mouths shut & go about their business leaving the anti Trump brigade to turn on each other.
Good luck Amerikkka as you sure will need it with either piece of trash leading your nation down the toilet.
Case in point. They don't get mouthy or strut about like peacocks but come election day they will go & vote Trump without a fuss & without parading their affiliation. Combine that with the abundance of people who won't vote as they see no one representing them & Amerikkka could be in for a rather rude shock.
Seeing the results of the federal election in my country & the Brexit vote is quite telling about the number of people who have been "shamed into silence" by the moral minority yet come election day go & vote the way they want.
This forum has done a good job of ensuring Trump supporters keep quiet here through a campaign reeking of smug idealism but all that achieves is a mutual fantasy circle jerk & dearth of objective discussion. The smart Republicans here just avoid this thread, keep their mouths shut & go about their business leaving the anti Trump brigade to turn on each other.
Good luck Amerikkka as you sure will need it with either piece of trash leading your nation down the toilet.
lwien
Well-Known Member
Personally, I have no idea how to objectively discuss Trump.
Being that the smart Republicans are not going to vote for Trump, I have no idea why they would avoid this thread.
On the other hand, smart Republicans is an oxymoron, eh?
(I just couldn't resist that one.....)Hey, we've circled the ring around that toilet many times in the past and I have no doubt that we'll circle around it in the future but being flushed down it? Naw, ain't gonna happen. Way too many safeguards in place. And anyways, there's been so much shit that has flowed down that toilet that it's permanently backed up and is a constant reminder that no matter how many flushes take place, we ain't goin' anywhere.
ClearBlueLou
unbearably light in the being....
Sadly, the young ones are more strident and less reasonable than their elders - they're not just dyed-in-the-wool bigots, they have been fed an exclusive diet of aggrieved Confederate entitlement their entire lives - by their families, their schools, their churches - they have never personally known anything more horrid that the Reagan years, never known any people of color well enough to see them as real people, are serenely convinced that the wrong stuff they believe is more than enough to pass judgment, and are the ones rolling coal, doing the shootings, carrying the weapons, making the threats, and wearing the uniform.
They think they're smart, they actually are as clever as they are mean / vicious / ill-mannered...but they're pretty effing transparent, to, even when they're SURE they're invisible: you have to want what they want with them in order to 'miss' what they're doing & how they're doing it, and then it's because TEAM, nothing else....
They've listened to their elders predict race war (tho they prefer to call it "taking their country back" - lying gets easier, apparently, when you do it long enough, tho their denials stopped being plausible 20 years ago) for so long that they're ready to pick the fight for themselves. That really kind of IS the "message" of the so-called alt-right: let us win, or start shooting. The most amazing display of wall-to-wall cowardice and bullying seen in my lifetime: The slavers are out in the light once again - and complaining that they can be seen, so we should all stop looking at them and listening to them - and let them get on with it.
===
IMO that was a BIG mistake on her part: Dems are FAMOUS for being bullied / bufalloed out of frank, "un-PC" assessments of their enemies ('cause we wouldn't want to offend the most offensive among us, now would we?) - it is in fact the exact sort or "liberal back-pedalling" the wrong-wing expects...it does not help us, our fellow citizens, or the nation..
Here's what it seems you're missing: they don't support Trump "in spite of" anything - they support him BECAUSE OF EVERYTHING you listed as a down-side factor.
This is a war to them, not an election, and not just any war but the Civil War: the election is only about gaining control over the government: once that's done, once they have Congress, ScCOTUS, the White House and the military, they can roll back the entire twentieth century without a meaningful murmur from anyone - and if you don't believe they'll try, you haven't been paying attention to them. They don't give a rat's ass about policy, and "public" is a dirty word to them: they care about power and privilege, and getting a share of the spoils.
A Trump administration will alter this nation for all time, perhaps even ruin it permanently; it will at least be a 'forever end' to that "shining city on a hill" self-infatuation...and it could well cause the rest of the world to rise up and unite against us - they know better than we do what happens when a good nation goes bad..and we were really pretty good, once - before we decided we were the best.
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Stevenski
Enter the Dragon
Personally, I have no idea how to objectively discuss Trump.
Being that the smart Republicans are not going to vote for Trump, I have no idea why they would avoid this thread.
On the other hand, smart Republicans is an oxymoron, eh?
p.
It is hard I suppose. He is an person of most unsavory character as is his opponent. Bringing attention to being a Trump supporter provides no benefit on this forum much like in the wider world. However come election day when it is just voter & ballot paper there is no one to judge oneself or influence a vote & true colours/feelings come out.
Being a cannabis based forum it is expected that there will be a substantial leaning towards the liberal/left side of the fence. I woudl be astonished otherwise & I like to think there is 10-15% loony fringe on both sides of the spectrum & a healthy 70-80% of people who just want to get on with life as best they can & seek stability in their life & government.
I really hope so, for the rest of the free worlds sake as well. I might be some US politics ignorant foreigner but Obama is a leader & who commands respect whilst being able to show a human side. I can't see any redeeming qualities let alone humanity in either candidate that will be leading the US for at least four long painful years.
lwien
Well-Known Member
On THAT, we agree. I'm gonna miss him. Thank God it's only a 4 year term which is one of those rules that helps us to keep from going down that drain you talked about. We'll get through it and then we'll have another chance to elect someone whose really worthy of the job.
We've had some great presidents in the past. We've has some shitty ones as well. And the beat goes on.......
cybrguy
Putin is a War Criminal
Well, we obviously see a totally different woman in Hillary Clinton. I would have no problem saying that about Trump, but there is just no way I could describe Clinton anything like that. I think she has a surplus of both.
lwien
Well-Known Member
I know you do cyber.
Gunky
Well-Known Member
Obama knows Hillary well, having served with her in the Senate, hired her as Secretary of State and worked with her in the White House for 4 years. He and Michelle are campaigning vigorously for Hillary Clinton. Possibly they are not wrong about her.
Branding Trump supporters as racist and so forth is not good strategy. Branding Trump and Trump policies as racist is good. This offers a kind of 'benefit of the doubt' to Trump followers. Possibly they don't realize what a total mess Trump is. As Hillary correctly noted, many see Trump as a change agent. It is to our benefit to suggest inclusion of as many Trump followers into that basket as possible. Unlike Trump, our method involves making friends and generating loyalty along the way, not burning friend and foe alike as Trump does. Labeling Trumpies as racist etc just plays into the Trump campaign narrative and stiffens their resistance.
Branding Trump supporters as racist and so forth is not good strategy. Branding Trump and Trump policies as racist is good. This offers a kind of 'benefit of the doubt' to Trump followers. Possibly they don't realize what a total mess Trump is. As Hillary correctly noted, many see Trump as a change agent. It is to our benefit to suggest inclusion of as many Trump followers into that basket as possible. Unlike Trump, our method involves making friends and generating loyalty along the way, not burning friend and foe alike as Trump does. Labeling Trumpies as racist etc just plays into the Trump campaign narrative and stiffens their resistance.
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CarolKing
Singer of songs and a vapor connoisseur
I too will miss Obama. He is a wonderful speaker who weighs the good verses bad and tries to make the best decision for the American people. I don't agree with everything but being president is difficult to please everyone. We live in troubling times with problems from North Korea, China, the Middle East and Russia. Plus terrorism coming from various places. Let alone home grown problems. He is a wise president and s thoughtful one.
I'm scared and hope that Donald Trump stays far away from the predidency. I understand folks wanting change but Trump is a horrendous choice for a dog catcher let alone a president of our country. I'm at the point where I need to turn off all the election coverage. It's just gotten too ridiculous. I need the election to be over.
I've watched CNN specials about the presidential races of the past. It has been stupid before but with Trump in the race he has turned this into a farce and a huge joke. He is a clown that should be disqualified because he is assaulting the American public's values and hopes for the future. He has set the bar so low for personal decency it's beyond comprehension.
I too can't imagine the American people being so stupid to vote for this ass and evil person. I'm hoping more republicans realize this and decide to vote for someone other than Trump. Anyone but Trump needs to be the mantra. His actions and how he talks is so disturbing at times its frightening.
You can vote for whoever you want but a bad president can effect our country for 50 years or more. That is pretty much a lifetime.
I'm scared and hope that Donald Trump stays far away from the predidency. I understand folks wanting change but Trump is a horrendous choice for a dog catcher let alone a president of our country. I'm at the point where I need to turn off all the election coverage. It's just gotten too ridiculous. I need the election to be over.
I've watched CNN specials about the presidential races of the past. It has been stupid before but with Trump in the race he has turned this into a farce and a huge joke. He is a clown that should be disqualified because he is assaulting the American public's values and hopes for the future. He has set the bar so low for personal decency it's beyond comprehension.
I too can't imagine the American people being so stupid to vote for this ass and evil person. I'm hoping more republicans realize this and decide to vote for someone other than Trump. Anyone but Trump needs to be the mantra. His actions and how he talks is so disturbing at times its frightening.
You can vote for whoever you want but a bad president can effect our country for 50 years or more. That is pretty much a lifetime.
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BD9
Well-Known Member
Sometimes looking in from the outside gives a better perspective.
His_Highness
In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king
gangababa
Well-Known Member
It is totally non-negatable that sometimes looking in from the outside gives a better perspective,
but for the best perspective, one needs properly understand the "One" looking out from the inside.
The subjective-relative confused self-identifications and relations to the greater 'jagat' (world) explain the Trump supporter (and others).
There is a range of human behavior, common to all tribes. Within that range, societies establish their norms and normals. I like to use the regressive-progressive scale measuring dharma (essentially the golden rule).
This Alabama pastor saying, any in a high school football crowd not standing for the anthem should be shot, fails the dharma test and is in the range where likely Trump voters may be found; certainly the local state is.
Too confused and society says, "mental illness".
Less confused and you are an eccentric.
Less confused still and one might be called interesting.
...and there in the socially acceptable range; well! being well-adjusted to a profoundly wrong nation is not mental wellness...
No confusion is the state of grace of the saints, who are usually seen as though out of bounds; admirable but not 'normal'. Jesus is admirable. Paul was normal.
Being called a saint does not a saint make; actions trump words for all but the trickle down logicians.
but for the best perspective, one needs properly understand the "One" looking out from the inside.
The subjective-relative confused self-identifications and relations to the greater 'jagat' (world) explain the Trump supporter (and others).
There is a range of human behavior, common to all tribes. Within that range, societies establish their norms and normals. I like to use the regressive-progressive scale measuring dharma (essentially the golden rule).
This Alabama pastor saying, any in a high school football crowd not standing for the anthem should be shot, fails the dharma test and is in the range where likely Trump voters may be found; certainly the local state is.
Too confused and society says, "mental illness".
Less confused and you are an eccentric.
Less confused still and one might be called interesting.
...and there in the socially acceptable range; well! being well-adjusted to a profoundly wrong nation is not mental wellness...
No confusion is the state of grace of the saints, who are usually seen as though out of bounds; admirable but not 'normal'. Jesus is admirable. Paul was normal.
Being called a saint does not a saint make; actions trump words for all but the trickle down logicians.
CarolKing
Singer of songs and a vapor connoisseur
People get sick, especially when you are around large crowds. Hillary could have the flu? Maybe she didn't eat breakfast? I would hope that it isn't anything serious, she could have been dehydrated. After all she is 68 years old. She has had past problems with a blood clot. She needs to go to the doctor. Then tell the American people what's going on - transparency is the key.
Sanjay said that hypothyroidism can cause folks to become dehydrated. She does have low thyroid. I have that, it's pretty common in women. I've felt faint before.
She will probably be fine. I know Bernie is waiting in the wings - you never know.
Trump is going to be all over this. I hope he makes an idiot out of himself, like usual. I'm surprised he hasn't said anything about it. Kelly Ann Conway is probably babysitting him, making sure he doesn't say anything right away. He doesn't have enough common sense to do the right thing on his own.
Sanjay said that hypothyroidism can cause folks to become dehydrated. She does have low thyroid. I have that, it's pretty common in women. I've felt faint before.
She will probably be fine. I know Bernie is waiting in the wings - you never know.
Trump is going to be all over this. I hope he makes an idiot out of himself, like usual. I'm surprised he hasn't said anything about it. Kelly Ann Conway is probably babysitting him, making sure he doesn't say anything right away. He doesn't have enough common sense to do the right thing on his own.
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grokit
well-worn member
Nothing happens by accident imo. The driving dynamic in this election is racism, moreover the forced immigration of refugees on both sides of the pond that the killary/bush/obama policies created. That's why the world is getting involved in this particular election of ours, because these same policies are creating the climate for wwiii. No matter how much we may deny it, at the end of the day, when the shit hits the fan, we're all racist from the redneck with a rifle rack to the liberal in a volvo and drumpf knows this.
Just ask the people of calais how tolerant they would like to be, compared to how tolerant they are now.
also https://www.theguardian.com/comment...ote-to-the-failed-humanity-of-the-calais-wall
Drumpf has the churches riled up, but not in the traditional way of social conservatism with gay marriages and abortions. No, they're foaming at the mouth for an existential showdown with the nation of islam.
In today's news, it sounds like killary's about as healthy as I am.
For anyone not keeping up, that's not good![:\](/i/s/hmm.gif "Hmm :\")
"Democratic presidential candidate Hillary Clinton fell ill on Sunday as she became "overheated" and had to leave early from a September 11 memorial ceremony in New York City.
Clinton, 68, was taken to her daughter Chelsea's home in Manhattan, and emerged later wearing sunglasses and telling reporters that she was "feeling great," around two hours after she left the event on a hot and muggy morning.
Video posted to social media showed Clinton as she left the ceremony, standing rigidly but upright while an aide holds her arm. As a motorcade vehicle approached, Clinton wearing the same clothing as at the televised memorial, swayed and her knees buckled. She was helped into the van."
September in new york sucks, but not this bad; this woman's not right.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...d-bulldozers-eviction-thousands-refugees.html
Just ask the people of calais how tolerant they would like to be, compared to how tolerant they are now.
also https://www.theguardian.com/comment...ote-to-the-failed-humanity-of-the-calais-wall
Drumpf has the churches riled up, but not in the traditional way of social conservatism with gay marriages and abortions. No, they're foaming at the mouth for an existential showdown with the nation of islam.
In today's news, it sounds like killary's about as healthy as I am.
For anyone not keeping up, that's not good
"Democratic presidential candidate Hillary Clinton fell ill on Sunday as she became "overheated" and had to leave early from a September 11 memorial ceremony in New York City.
Clinton, 68, was taken to her daughter Chelsea's home in Manhattan, and emerged later wearing sunglasses and telling reporters that she was "feeling great," around two hours after she left the event on a hot and muggy morning.
Video posted to social media showed Clinton as she left the ceremony, standing rigidly but upright while an aide holds her arm. As a motorcade vehicle approached, Clinton wearing the same clothing as at the televised memorial, swayed and her knees buckled. She was helped into the van."
September in new york sucks, but not this bad; this woman's not right.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...d-bulldozers-eviction-thousands-refugees.html
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Vicki
Herbal Alchemist
grokit
well-worn member
What the american voting public is digesting. This video is stunning in what it depicts: A front-running presidential candidate that's unable to control her own body... wobbling, collapsing, stumbling, with her head bobbing to from side to side as if her neck is on a loose swivel, then collapsing face forward into the van.
edit: despite being diagnosed with pneumonia, killary said that she's "feeling great"
It's quite the different picture from the strong man that wants to build a wall around this nation's problems, or from the independent democratic socialist that received a divinely televised endorsement from above.
http://www.naturalnews.com/055254_Hillary_Clinton_walking_dead_medical_event.html
edit: despite being diagnosed with pneumonia, killary said that she's "feeling great"
http://www.naturalnews.com/055254_Hillary_Clinton_walking_dead_medical_event.html
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Stevenski
Enter the Dragon
In today's news, it sounds like killary's about as healthy as I am.
For anyone not keeping up, that's not good
As soon as I saw her "collapse" I was thinking.....
Amoreena
Grown up Flower Child
I strongly disagree.
With proper medical treatment, pneumonia is far from a permanently disabling ailment for most folks; I've had pneumonia. And her appearance a couple of hours later confirms that she WAS feeling much better. Further, perfect make up and hair styling would not have been appropriate for the sad occasion. Just my
worth.Edit: And from the link you posted (nowhere in which was she called "killary"):
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ClearBlueLou
unbearably light in the being....
Look, I don't LIKE HRC. I NEVER have; my reasons are my own, and sufficient to the purpose. Disliking her, however doesn't BLIND me to the obvious differences between her and her opponent, or to the DELIBERATE injection of spurious and discredited "charges" against her into the political contest.
On the Spectrum of Awfulness, HRC and Trump are not even in the same universe, much less on the samae scale. At her absolute imaginary WORST, she could not wreak the havoc upon the nation that Trump has ALREADY worked.
It will greatly simplify things if we ask ourselves this question:
"Would I vote for Hillary if she was running against Hitler/Stalin/Mao/Pahlavi/Marcos/Somoza/Pinochet?"
If your answer is anything other than "Hillary, DUH!", then PLEASE do not vote. In fact, find somewhere else to live. Somewhere "tough guys" are a dime a dozen....
Make no mistake: Trump is a Hitler-scale disaster just DYING to explode all over the nation. His provocations and out-right encouragements to the racist separatists among us are not an accident, they're his plan for winning. A vote for Trump pretty much guarantees your family will go down in shame, once the smoke clears and the blood is mopped up.
===
Gunky, I'm going to start off by saying I have no problem with you, and I WANT no problem with you.
That said, your post is a classic example of WHY "conservatives" think liberals are stupid: "Liberals bring agenda items to a gunfight!" I've heard it said a thousand times.... You seriously suggest that we should be nicer to the assholes who deliberately goad us every day - WHY? It is entirely possible that apologizing for the truth is "a better way"......but that in NO WAY changes the character of the candidate or the campaign. Some of Trump's supporters are not racist, almost certainly: whether they are a statistically significant number is debatable.
Whether there is ANY point in the American public caring about such an obvious swindle is also debatable...but we should be debating THESE THINGS, and NOT whether Clinton is just as bad as Trump. She's not. Not anywhere CLOSE. Not on ANYTHING.
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lwien
Well-Known Member
So have I and now at 72 I'm running and putting in 23 miles a week. Pneumonia becomes really serious if you have a compromised immune system which happens to many who are in their late 80's and 90's but Hillary in her late 60's shouldn't pose a problem, especially if she is in good health otherwise.
My dad passed away from pneumonia, but he was 96.
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ClearBlueLou
unbearably light in the being....
My brother was swallowed whole by ALEX JONES - you want to talk badly about him, go for it
===
Brother, it would delight me to sit down and share a bag with you someday....
===
your picture inclusions make no sense:Nothing happens by accident imo. The driving dynamic in this election is racism, moreover the forced immigration of refugees on both sides of the pond that the killary/bush/obama policies created. That's why the world is getting involved in this particular election of ours, because these same policies are creating the climate for wwiii. No matter how much we may deny it, at the end of the day, when the shit hits the fan, we're all racist from the redneck with a rifle rack to the liberal in a volvo and drumpf knows this.
Just ask the people of calais how tolerant they would like to be, compared to how tolerant they are now.
also https://www.theguardian.com/comment...ote-to-the-failed-humanity-of-the-calais-wall
Drumpf has the churches riled up, but not in the traditional way of social conservatism with gay marriages and abortions. No, they're foaming at the mouth for an existential showdown with the nation of islam.
In today's news, it sounds like killary's about as healthy as I am.
For anyone not keeping up, that's not good
"Democratic presidential candidate Hillary Clinton fell ill on Sunday as she became "overheated" and had to leave early from a September 11 memorial ceremony in New York City.
Clinton, 68, was taken to her daughter Chelsea's home in Manhattan, and emerged later wearing sunglasses and telling reporters that she was "feeling great," around two hours after she left the event on a hot and muggy morning.
Video posted to social media showed Clinton as she left the ceremony, standing rigidly but upright while an aide holds her arm. As a motorcade vehicle approached, Clinton wearing the same clothing as at the televised memorial, swayed and her knees buckled. She was helped into the van."
September in new york sucks, but not this bad; this woman's not right.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...d-bulldozers-eviction-thousands-refugees.html
in what way are they representative of ANYTHING?
PS: "Killary"? REALLY? you're going to prop yourself up with a dry hole drilled by hapless republican hate-mongers? This is so far beneath you I find I want to make excuses for you.
Too bad the thing about Clinton is hearsay - but that's been the problem all along.
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Silat
When the Facts Change, I Change My Mind.
Right on. I have had pneumonia more a dozen times in my life. It can be tragic and a couple times I was very sick. But I believe her Dr. and see that she seems fine.
Drumpf on the other hand seems to have a serious mental condition that he shows us every day.
And the media is not calling out Drumpf for his lack of medical records (obvious phony letter for Dr Hipster) in the same way they keep grilling Hillary over charity and fake email scandals.
When you get swallowed by the lizard prince there is no way back
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