The 2016 Presidential Candidates Thread

[grokit]

It is starting to look like the Trump wave has crested and now we are back to flavor of the month as the repubs dally with various outlandish candidates before picking somebody more conventional.

I don't know about that; never underestimate the vapidity of the voting public. Remember how poorly the gop did in the last two presidential elections? Once nominated, I would wager trump easily surpasses the amount of votes romney and mccain received in each of their fall campaigns, combined.


The GOP’s really going to do it: Trump isn’t a phase — Republicans think he’s their best shot
A poll bolsters Trump's campaign by showing that not only do GOP voters like him, they think he can beat Clinton


(Credit: Reuters/Lucas Jackson/Carlo Allegri/Salon)

For months now, the assumption in the mainstream press has been that the Donald Trump candidacy is just a phase for Republican primary voters, and that after they spent the pre-primary season expressing themselves, they would settle down and vote for someone who actually stands a chance running against Hillary Clinton, such as a Jeb Bush or a Marco Rubio. Since July, there have been dozens of prominent pundits declaring that Trump-mania was about to wind down so the real race can begin, and, hilariously, those predictions continue to fail and Trump continues to dominate the polls.

To be entirely fair, there is good reason to believe that Trump is going to flame out and a party standard-bearer will step in. After all, that’s what happened in the 2012 primary season, as voters expressed their id by backing candidates like Herman Cain or Newt Gingrich before settling down and running the only guy who had half a chance against Obama, Mitt Romney. History shows that as much as Republican primary voters like to imagine they’re pissing off the liberals, they also blanch and remember that they would like even more to have a reasonable shot at the White House. Under the circumstances, the Trump flameout isn’t an unreasonable prediction.

But now there’s new ABC News/Washington Post polling data that complicates the picture tremendously. The data shows not just that Republican voters like Trump, but that they believe he has a better chance of winning the general election than Clinton. It’s not even a close race.



Clearly, Republican voters are delusional. It’s hard to imagine any scenario where Trump doesn’t lose spectacularly against Clinton. Consider how much Romney’s chances were hurt by his indelicate “47 percent” comment. And that was mild compared to Trump’s relentless hateful bleating about Mexicans, his unsubtle racism regarding President Obama, and his ugly attitudes about women that will likely not be contained for the many months of running against a woman. Democrats win by getting out the vote, and almost nothing will encourage women and people of color to stampede to the polls more than pulling the lever against Donald Trump.

But clearly, Republican primary voters don’t see this. Which calls into question the hope that they will wake up and start supporting someone more electable before it’s too late for their party.

Of course, this is just one poll and the first primaries are months away. It’s entirely possible that voters are still in the pissing-off-the-liberals phase and haven’t even started to consider boring issues like nominating someone who can run a credible general election campaign.

(more...)

 

[Gunky]

In republican circles this sort of thing passes for deep thought. Mr. Trump admits he knows little about foreign policy but promises to bone up on it if elected. But he can already make this important promise re a Trump presidency:

Trump was addressing a crowd of social conservatives at the 2015 Values Voter Summit in Washington, D.C.

“The word Christmas: I love Christmas,” he said. “I love Christmas. You go to stores now, you don’t see the word Christmas. It says, ‘Happy holidays’ all over. I say, ‘Where’s Christmas?’ I tell my wife, ‘Don’t go to those stores.’ “

“I want to see Christmas — no, I want to see Christmas,” he said to applause.

“And you know, other people can have their holidays … but Christmas is Christmas,” he said. “[Remember] the expression ‘Merry Christmas?’ You don’t see it anymore. You’re [going to] see it if I get elected, I can tell you right now. I can tell you right now.”

 

[lwien]

Iowa Republicans like and agree with the ridiculous rhetoric about Carson’s off-the-wall beliefs.

Considering the combined acceptance of both Carson and Trump, it tells us all we need to know about Republicans in general and while logic would dictate that there is no way in hell that either of them would ever win the general, all one needs to do to snap us back into a reality check is that Bush won a second term.

 

[cybrguy]

Maybe he can dress up in a Santa Claus outfit and get some more support from those that believe in him too...

 

[grokit]

Trump is the logical conclusion, of the reagan television personality presidency revolution

 

[Snappo]

Trump is the logical conclusion, of the reagan television personality presidency revolution

I found Reagan to always measure his words and demeanor very carefully, and he never stooped below first class. Trump is the antithesis of Reagan in just about every respect, including respectability. We need another Reagan right now to reinvigorate our lost respectability in the world - we need a guy or gal that can ride a horse and kick some serious ass!

 

[cybrguy]

Let us not forget that were it not for Iowa's political power we would not be using 10% ethanol additives in gasoline, and if we were it would be made with swamp grass or ANYTHING other than a fucking food crop. I vote for hemp!

 

[lwien]

we need a guy or gal that can ride a horse and kick some serious ass!

Hilary could do that ! (don't think she can ride a horse though....hehe)

 

[grokit]

I found Reagan to always measure his words and demeanor very carefully, and he never stooped below first class. Trump is the antithesis of Reagan in just about every respect, including respectability. We need another Reagan right now to reinvigorate our lost respectability in the world - we need a guy or gal that can ride a horse and kick some serious ass!

Imo the only thing reagan measured carefully was his jelly bean intake, at least during his second term. He was an actor, that had it out for the commies, and was never the same after he was shot in the head. Trump is a narcisstic reality television star using the hitler playbook. The whole cowboy thing is mythological bs.

 

[Snappo]

Imo the only thing reagan measured carefully was his jelly bean intake, at least during his second term. He was an actor, that had it out for the commies, and was never the same after he was shot in the head. Trump is a narcisstic reality television star using the hitler playbook. The whole cowboy thing is mythological bs.

I understand what you are saying, and don't necessarily disagree with your assessment. I do think, however, that he presented well in leadership as a monumental figurehead for the US and in view of the rest of the world. Reagan's acting skills played a very large role in his ability to carry that out in grand style. I also think that he acknowledged his shortcomings by surrounding his administration with a lot of smart people in the areas that needed smarts. Someone Reaganesque in these regards would for me be a welcomed fresh start. I have too many preconceived notions about our current cast of characters, most notably, Clinton, Bush, and Trump, that leave an all-too-familiar acrid bad taste in my mouth ...and no amount of gargling seems to leave me feeling fresh.

 

[grokit]

he acknowledged his shortcomings by surrounding his administration with a lot of smart people

They may have been smart, but they were also criminals. Every single member of his fist-term cabinet was indicted for criminal activity, well before the weapons for hostages scandal. Over 138 of his administration officials in all were investigated, indicted, or convicted; the largest number for any US president.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reagan_administration_scandals

 

[Snappo]

They may have been smart, but they were also criminals. Every single member of his fist-term cabinet was indicted for criminal activity, well before the weapons for hostages scandal. Over 138 of his administration officials in all were investigated, indicted, or convicted; the largest number for any US president.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reagan_administration_scandals

Right ...they got caught. Cover-ups are much more sophisticated since then, though the media makes it all-the-more tough to hide these days. There will always be skeletons rattling in closets. Anyway, my point is that we need someone with substance, backbone, integrity, and statesmanlike carriage. Let's forget Reagan ...maybe that was a poor example too easy to pick apart. Point - It's not enough to play the world's cop, we've got to be the world's leader without the buffoonery. Perception is everything - image.

 

[CarolKing]

I know Ben Carson's stance on cannabis but he always looks like he's stoned to me. He always appears a little too relaxed.

 

[Snappo]

I know Ben Carson's stance on cannabis but he always looks like he's stoned to me.

I envy those who's natural brain chemistry allows for that. Hmmm.. or in Carson's case, does it?

 

[hafalump]

He's a neurosurgeon he has access to all kinds of feely good stuff.

 

[grokit]

Briefly checking into dr. carson, it appears that he's as a shithouse rat.



Egomaniac Ben Carson Says He’s The Only Candidate Who Can Prevent The ‘End Times’

Dr. Ben Carson Isn’t God, He Just Plays One on TV

The surgeon who thinks he’s God, and the country that enabled him

Megyn Kelly trips up patently unprepared Ben Carson with softball question

Ben Carson Unveils His Beliefs on God, Genesis and the Age of the Earth After Bill O’Reilly
Asks: ‘Are You Really a Creationist?’

Ben Carson: Pompeii Victims Should Have Outrun Lava
(satire)

 

[lwien]

Briefly checking into dr. carson, it appears that he's as a shithouse rat.



Egomaniac Ben Carson Says He’s The Only Candidate Who Can Prevent The ‘End Times’

Dr. Ben Carson Isn’t God, He Just Plays One on TV

The surgeon who thinks he’s God, and the country that enabled him

Megyn Kelly trips up patently unprepared Ben Carson with softball question

Ben Carson Unveils His Beliefs on God, Genesis and the Age of the Earth After Bill O’Reilly
Asks: ‘Are You Really a Creationist?’

Ben Carson: Pompeii Victims Should Have Outrun Lava
(satire)

So it makes perfect sense why he's leading the GOP in Iowa.

 

[Gunky]

I understand what you are saying, and don't necessarily disagree with your assessment. I do think, however, that he presented well in leadership as a monumental figurehead for the US and in view of the rest of the world. Reagan's acting skills played a very large role in his ability to carry that out in grand style. I also think that he acknowledged his shortcomings by surrounding his administration with a lot of smart people in the areas that needed smarts. Someone Reaganesque in these regards would for me be a welcomed fresh start. I have too many preconceived notions about our current cast of characters, most notably, Clinton, Bush, and Trump, that leave an all-too-familiar acrid bad taste in my mouth ...and no amount of gargling seems to leave me feeling fresh.

Back during Reagan's presidency I taught English in east Asia and used to listen to shortwave for news and entertainment. The Voice of America had lots of good programs, including a jazz hour with Willis Conover discoursing learnedly in deep bass tones. Just before or after Willis came on was the Voice of America editorial, "reflecting the views of the United States government". I think I have never been so embarrassed and ashamed of America as the day the editorial stated that "the United States neither confirms nor denies that it is mining harbors in Nicaragua, but it is believed the mining will shortly stop." Of course later on when the Iran / Contra hearings took place the mining incident had to take second place. My guess is you grew up with Reagan as the cowboy hero and you did not notice that he turned the country from the world's largest creditor nation to the worlds largest debtor nation. He was an affable, nice looking fellow, but that's about as far as it went. As a president he was terrible and we are still feeling the ill effects of his presidency. Things he threw off as fluffy rhetoric not really supposed to be taken all that seriously became repub dogma, like the government is always the problem. For decades obscenely rich people have been using Reaganomics to grab for themselves a huge portion of the wealth of our society, all the while protesting that we can't afford Social Security or food stamps, medicare, low college tuition etc. Human society already tried for long periods unregulated, unrestrained capitalism with few or no avenues for redistributing wealth that repubs nowadays dream about. It is referred to in history books as feudalism.

 

[Snappo]

@Gunky - I am happy to stand corrected and remain open to a best option for a US based world leader. Thanks for setting the record straight.

 

[grokit]

To be fair, I don't think the old guy had a clue what the bastards around him were up to most of the time. There are stories about how hard it was to engage him on even the most important decisions, especially in that second term. His affinity for having the most complex issues reduced to bullet points was legendary. Questions of policy had to be prefaced with "what color jelly bean would you like today, mr. president?"

 

[lwien]

And Reagen is the GOP's messiah. They all publicly say that they want to be just like him.

While one part of me, a very large part, thinks that they're all bat-shit crazy, another part of me, albeit a smaller part thinks, "Ok, I gotta find some empathy here."..........but alas, it's nowhere to be found.

 

[Snappo]

To be fair, I don't think the old guy had a clue what the bastards around him were up to most of the time. There are stories about how hard it was to engage him on even the most important decisions, especially in that second term. His affinity for having the most complex issues reduced to bullet points was legendary. Questions of policy had to be prefaced with "what color jelly bean would you like today, mr. president?"

You raise a point indirectly which I always consider so important: Intellect, mental & emotional dexterity, and vision. Our world, for lack thereof, in it's man-made tangle mess, needs minds sharp as razors and light-speed fast like lasers, unfettered by special interests and ego-maniacal motivations. We need a leader that will have all other world leaders take high notice in highest esteem. Someone who will not only inspire serious world-wide pause for thought, but also move their feet from peddle to brake bringing all the madness to a screeching halt. I suppose I'm asking for no one short of the 2nd coming of the one true messiah. Sadly, I don't foresee it in my lifetime, and I fear for my grand-kids and their kids a frozen trek through darkness. I would ask that Gene Roddenberry return to this world to carry us forward into his vision.

 

[Joel W.]

Trickle down economics only works for the super rich. We need to trickle out from the middle to actually bring society up as a whole.

 

[CarolKing]

One month prior to the election, President Carter had signed the Mental Health Systems Act, which had proposed to continue the federal community mental health centers program, although with some additional state involvement. Consistent with the report of the Carter Commission, the act also included a provision for federal grants “for projects for the prevention of mental illness and the promotion of positive mental health,” an indication of how little learning had taken place among the Carter Commission members and professionals at NIMH. With President Reagan and the Republicans taking over, the Mental Health Systems Act was discarded before the ink had dried and the CMHC funds were simply block granted to the states. The CMHC program had not only died but been buried as well. An autopsy could have listed the cause of death as naiveté complicated by grandiosity.

President Reagan never understood mental illness. Like Richard Nixon, he was a product of the Southern California culture that associated psychiatry with Communism. Two months after taking office, Reagan was shot by John Hinckley, a young man with untreated schizophrenia. Two years later, Reagan called Dr. Roger Peele, then director of St. Elizabeths Hospital, where Hinckley was being treated, and tried to arrange to meet with Hinckley, so that Reagan could forgive him. Peele tactfully told the president that this was not a good idea. Reagan was also exposed to the consequences of untreated mental illness through the two sons of Roy Miller, his personal tax advisor. Both sons developed schizophrenia; one committed suicide in 1981, and the other killed his mother in 1983. Despite such personal exposure, Reagan never exhibited any interest in the need for research or better treatment for serious mental illness.

Reagan developed Alziemers, who knows when that actually set in? He could have been in the early stages during his presidency.

 

[Gunky]

Trickle down economics only works for the super rich. We need to trickle out from the middle to actually bring society up as a whole.

When are people who vote for republicans going to realize that giving enormous tax breaks to people like Mitt Romney so they can stash money in Cayman Island banks is not a recipe for reviving our dwindling middle class, restoring our crumbling infrastructure, educating our young, maintaining a high standard of living for all citizens, keeping this country competitive as the world economy changes, yadda yadda yadda?

Reagan was a big fan of fuzzy math and when he lowered nominal tax rates that could go as high as 60-70 percent he threw us into deficit spending big time. Now people like Romney scooping in tens of millions per year pay an effective rate of 17% and still the repubs cry out for more tax breaks for the rich. How run down does the country have to get before the average guy gets the message: shoveling more and more of our very successful and growing country's wealth at the top 1% (while at the same time running huge deficits - in effect hocking the country and giving the proceeds to the rich) and practicing austerity for the 99% doesn't work? These policies have a track record now. Take a look at Sam Brownback in Kansas. This. Shit. Does. Not. Work. (pounds podium). Quit sucking in fairy tale pap devised by the one percent and wake up to your own interests!